Hi,

I am making solid cherry (planed to 3/4") drawer fronts for my kitchen
cabinets (25 drawers in all). The heights will be 5, 8, 10, and 13
inches. For most of them I have wide enough boards to use a single
board; a few will be glue-ups.

The cabs are face frame, with full overlay fronts, but no horizontal
members other than the top and bottom rails. I had planned to leave
1/8" gap between the drawer fronts as they stack on top of each other.

My questions:

how concerned do I need to be about the wider boards cupping? What can
I do to minimize the chance of that happenning. I read of someone who
would plane the lumber almost to final thickness, let it sit ahile to do
whatever movement it was going to do, then do the final planing
(although wouldn't you also need to face joint it again before planing
if it did cup?)

How much seasonal variation in width can I expect? In other words, is
1/8" enough gap, or will the fronts expand across the grain and swell
the gap shut? The house is in Greenville, SC. We use the AC in the
summer, but there is always some fall and spring time when we dont need
to heat or cool.

Can I screw thru the box into the cherry fronts in all four corners, or
will that cause problems if there is expansion.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions...

david

"david" wrote in message
nk.net...
Hi,

I am making solid cherry (planed to 3/4") drawer fronts for my kitchen
cabinets (25 drawers in all). The heights will be 5, 8, 10, and 13
inches. For most of them I have wide enough boards to use a single board;
a few will be glue-ups.

The cabs are face frame, with full overlay fronts, but no horizontal
members other than the top and bottom rails. I had planned to leave 1/8"
gap between the drawer fronts as they stack on top of each other.

My questions:

how concerned do I need to be about the wider boards cupping? What can I
do to minimize the chance of that happenning. I read of someone who would
plane the lumber almost to final thickness, let it sit ahile to do
whatever movement it was going to do, then do the final planing (although
wouldn't you also need to face joint it again before planing if it did
cup?)

How much seasonal variation in width can I expect? In other words, is 1/8"
enough gap, or will the fronts expand across the grain and swell the gap
shut? The house is in Greenville, SC. We use the AC in the summer, but
there is always some fall and spring time when we dont need to heat or
cool.

Can I screw thru the box into the cherry fronts in all four corners, or
will that cause problems if there is expansion.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions...

david


Quarter sawn wood will minimize the cupping.

If rift sawn is used, be sure and finish the fronts on all sides.
If one side has no sealer on it, the moisture content can rise on the board
and cause the cupping.

Lowell Holmes wrote:


Quarter sawn wood will minimize the cupping.

If rift sawn is used, be sure and finish the fronts on all sides.
If one side has no sealer on it, the moisture content can rise on the board
and cause the cupping.




thanks for the reply...I already have the lumber and it's not
quartersawn...I had intended to finish all sides with Waterlox Original...

david

IF you plane the boards ( I assume you are using flatsawn & not
quartersawn boards) to almost finished thickness & are concerned about
cupping you have options.
1. before planing - other than skip planing -, joint one edge, rip to
3" (or smaller) & reverse the grain every other board & glue up-- (see
Frier Cabinetmaking & millwork-- I think that's where I get my info
besides my experience) - This has the disadvantage of not getting a
perfect grain match on wide boards. It does have the advantage of
minimizing cupping.

2. go ahead & plane to 1/4" above finish-- let stabilize in the house (
where the cabinetry will be used) & replane--(how long to stabilize?--
weigh the boards -- or a sample board when you bring it in. When the
board stops loosing weight it has stabilized to it's enviornment) No
need to face joint-- If the piece is cupped, find a flat piece of
plywood or MDF, Use hot glue to reinforce the cup (cove up) edges -
easy to scrape off later --& run the board with light cuts through the
surface planer. Reverse the board when flat, remove the hot gluw with a
chisel & plane the other side--- I didn't believe this would work
until I tried it on a bowed and twisted piece of walnut I had
carelessly cut from a deadfall tree last year. (never will I face
plane on the jointer again)

What ever you do-- make sure you put equal amounts of finish on all
faces & edges of the finished product or you will be dealing with cup

"""How much seasonal variation in width can I expect? In other words,
is
1/8" enough gap, or will the fronts expand across the grain and swell
the gap shut? The house is in Greenville, SC. We use the AC in the
summer, but there is always some fall and spring time when we dont need
to heat or cool"""

Do you open all the windows when it rains? .
1/8" is really small-- I'd use maybe 3/16" He He-- If the wood is
stabilized before you finish cut & plane, I wouldn't imagine that it
(cherry) would move more than that over 13 inches. ( that woulld be
3/32 each way) I made a couch out of air dried Oak in Houston in an
unheated shop, Moved it North to Plano into an air conditioned
enviroment & it shrank about 1/4" over 30" over a period of a year.
I had some edge grain boards mating with endgrain boards"-- newbie
mistake- This was 35 years ago
Of course Oak isn't Cherry-- just used this example to illustrate
extremes in my situation.. I imagine others who have had more
experience in NC with Cherry will be able to give you more informed
opinions on this aspect of your question.

phil,

thanks for the very informative post...I just got off the phone with a
ww friend of mine. He suggested for the cupping in the wider fronts to
put screws with washers thru oversized holes in the 4 corners (with the
screw heads inside the box). This should hold the front flat against
the box, and allow movement without cracking. I will have a single pull
in the center, and 2 Blum drawer adjusters also lined up across the
center to hold the middle. I am thinking if there is too much expansion
I can selectively remove the front and joint some more off the
offending edge.

One of the boards is 15" wide, 10 ft long. I plan to use this one
across the top 2 rows of drawer fronts in the 8 ft. long island. The
top row is 5". the one below is 8", so I will have a nice grain match
all the way across...

the trick with the MDF or plywood: are you laying the cupped board on
top of the MDF, then supporting the raised (cupped) edges with blocks or
shims before running it thru the planer?

thanks again,

david

Phil at small (vs at large) wrote:
IF you plane the boards ( I assume you are using flatsawn & not
quartersawn boards) to almost finished thickness & are concerned about
cupping you have options.
1. before planing - other than skip planing -, joint one edge, rip to
3" (or smaller) & reverse the grain every other board & glue up-- (see
Frier Cabinetmaking & millwork-- I think that's where I get my info
besides my experience) - This has the disadvantage of not getting a
perfect grain match on wide boards. It does have the advantage of
minimizing cupping.

2. go ahead & plane to 1/4" above finish-- let stabilize in the house (
where the cabinetry will be used) & replane--(how long to stabilize?--
weigh the boards -- or a sample board when you bring it in. When the
board stops loosing weight it has stabilized to it's enviornment) No
need to face joint-- If the piece is cupped, find a flat piece of
plywood or MDF, Use hot glue to reinforce the cup (cove up) edges -
easy to scrape off later --& run the board with light cuts through the
surface planer. Reverse the board when flat, remove the hot gluw with a
chisel & plane the other side--- I didn't believe this would work
until I tried it on a bowed and twisted piece of walnut I had
carelessly cut from a deadfall tree last year. (never will I face
plane on the jointer again)

What ever you do-- make sure you put equal amounts of finish on all
faces & edges of the finished product or you will be dealing with cup

"""How much seasonal variation in width can I expect? In other words,
is
1/8" enough gap, or will the fronts expand across the grain and swell
the gap shut? The house is in Greenville, SC. We use the AC in the
summer, but there is always some fall and spring time when we dont need
to heat or cool"""

Do you open all the windows when it rains? .
1/8" is really small-- I'd use maybe 3/16" He He-- If the wood is
stabilized before you finish cut & plane, I wouldn't imagine that it
(cherry) would move more than that over 13 inches. ( that woulld be
3/32 each way) I made a couch out of air dried Oak in Houston in an
unheated shop, Moved it North to Plano into an air conditioned
enviroment & it shrank about 1/4" over 30" over a period of a year.
I had some edge grain boards mating with endgrain boards"-- newbie
mistake- This was 35 years ago
Of course Oak isn't Cherry-- just used this example to illustrate
extremes in my situation.. I imagine others who have had more
experience in NC with Cherry will be able to give you more informed
opinions on this aspect of your question.

Lay the cupped board on the MDF ( actualy I used birch ply, as I have
some)- cupped side UP- Like you are cupping your hands for a drink
from the water spigot. Then use your hot glue gun to 'shim' the board
up on all sides relative to the 'carrier' board- make sure it doesn't
wobble at all. If it does, use more hot glue. I use a LOT of hot glue
on both edges, little pyramids of it, to stabilize the cupped board.
When planing, I take really light cuts so as not to force the cup out
of the board i'm planing -- maybe 1/64th at first then 1/32nd at most
.. I found that planing short lengths works best, certainly no longer
than 24 " or maybe 6" less than your carrier board length. I found
that my previously lacquered carrier board broke away from the plane
stock ( board I was planing) & I had to manually push the carrier
through so the board being planed wouldn't fall off the end
prematurely. You might watch for this. I imagine that an unfinished
carrier board will have more 'tack' for the hot glue. ( small brads,
positioned in line with the edge of the board being planed might help
keep the hot glue from slipping, but I imagine this might be too much
trouble & I havn't had to resort to it yet)

When you flip the board over to plane the other side, remove the
carrier board, & just crank the planer down to 'touch ' the board &
plane as usual .

Hope this helps.
Phil

thanks Phil...I have never used hot glue, so didn't know you could pile
it up like that...

check out this video from FW

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt095.asp

david

Phil at small (vs at large) wrote:
Lay the cupped board on the MDF ( actualy I used birch ply, as I have
some)- cupped side UP- Like you are cupping your hands for a drink
from the water spigot. Then use your hot glue gun to 'shim' the board
up on all sides relative to the 'carrier' board- make sure it doesn't
wobble at all. If it does, use more hot glue. I use a LOT of hot glue
on both edges, little pyramids of it, to stabilize the cupped board.
When planing, I take really light cuts so as not to force the cup out
of the board i'm planing -- maybe 1/64th at first then 1/32nd at most
. I found that planing short lengths works best, certainly no longer
than 24 " or maybe 6" less than your carrier board length. I found
that my previously lacquered carrier board broke away from the plane
stock ( board I was planing) & I had to manually push the carrier
through so the board being planed wouldn't fall off the end
prematurely. You might watch for this. I imagine that an unfinished
carrier board will have more 'tack' for the hot glue. ( small brads,
positioned in line with the edge of the board being planed might help
keep the hot glue from slipping, but I imagine this might be too much
trouble & I havn't had to resort to it yet)

When you flip the board over to plane the other side, remove the
carrier board, & just crank the planer down to 'touch ' the board &
plane as usual .

Hope this helps.
Phil