On 12 Jan 2005 22:00:57 -0500,
lid (dwright) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I have also (very carefully) touched the blade side while it was
running in Bypass Mode. The control panel flashed the contact
pattern, so I know that the brake would have released if I hadn't
been in Bypass.

Wait! There's a Bypass mode? Operator controllable? Uhoh! Suit City
here we come, I reckon.

"Should I run my sawstop in bypass mode?" will replace "should I have
a blade guard installed?" ?

In a working situation, is there any _record/log_ kept of each
incident, and the state of the Saw Stop?

Old Nick wrote:

On 12 Jan 2005 22:00:57 -0500,
lid (dwright) vaguely
proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I have also (very carefully) touched the blade side while it was
running in Bypass Mode. The control panel flashed the contact
pattern, so I know that the brake would have released if I hadn't
been in Bypass.

Wait! There's a Bypass mode? Operator controllable? Uhoh! Suit City
here we come, I reckon.

"Should I run my sawstop in bypass mode?" will replace "should I have
a blade guard installed?" ?

Not really, bypass mode is specifically for metals and green wood that would
trigger the Sawstop otherwise.

In a working situation, is there any _record/log_ kept of each
incident, and the state of the Saw Stop?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Old Nick,

I have no idea how diy came up with that address for me. I didn't
type it anywhere when signing up. It's just designstrategies.net.

You've got a good hunch there. They had to include a bypass mode, and
I wouldn't be surprised if the first person who gets bitten while
using that mode sues SawStop claiming that they weren't running in
bypass.

I have discussed the technology and the resulting saw's engineering at
length with Steve Gass, as part of deciding whether or not to get one
so early, but didn't get around to asking if the cartridge holds a
record of operating patterns. It tells you if contact is sensed
while in Bypass...would be trivial for it to record that info.

Most of the saw's smarts are in the cartridge. That make upgrades
easier. If you happen to have endured reading my review you might
have noticed that my saw received such an upgrade after I noticed an
operational irregularity. At some point someone's got to try hacking
the cartridge.

Regards,

Dave

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:30:36 -0600, Duane Bozarth
wrote:


I'm simply questioning whether the detection capability is able to
distinguish a piece of flesh in the way while there's still a continued
normal cutting load and have seen no indication of a test to show it any
any review...

It doesn't detect flesh per se, it's looking for a change in electric
potential. Have you ever been in a building that has a door with
a crash bar that youhave to touch with your bare hand in order to
release a magnet that holds the door closed ?

Oh yea - Bypass Mode is a little irritating to engage. They did that
to discourage its regular use. You have to hold a key turned for at
least a second while starting the saw.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:02:31 -0500, GregP
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

But does it work if you throw a sausage at it?

It doesn't detect flesh per se, it's looking for a change in electric
potential. Have you ever been in a building that has a door with
a crash bar that youhave to touch with your bare hand in order to
release a magnet that holds the door closed ?

On 13 Jan 2005 23:00:58 -0500,
lid (dwright) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Oh yea - Bypass Mode is a little irritating to engage. They did that
to discourage its regular use. You have to hold a key turned for at
least a second while starting the saw.

But it will be done...G

Seriously, I am surprised they included it. Even after readin your
other post.

On 13 Jan 2005 22:00:48 -0500,
lid (dwright) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email
I have no idea how diy came up with that address for me. I didn't
type it anywhere when signing up. It's just designstrategies.net.

Well it sounds as if somebody cares about your bum for you. Anti-spam
addresses on the newsgroup are very common, to stop....well...spammers
G. Hence my little request to remove ns when replying by email.

You've got a good hunch there. They had to include a bypass mode, and
I wouldn't be surprised if the first person who gets bitten while
using that mode sues SawStop claiming that they weren't running in
bypass.

I have discussed the technology and the resulting saw's engineering at
length with Steve Gass, as part of deciding whether or not to get one
so early, but didn't get around to asking if the cartridge holds a
record of operating patterns. It tells you if contact is sensed
while in Bypass...would be trivial for it to record that info.

I remain neutral about SawStop. Which to say against, really, as I
have not bought one G. But this one seems to be for _their_
protection.


Most of the saw's smarts are in the cartridge. That make upgrades
easier. If you happen to have endured reading my review you might
have noticed that my saw received such an upgrade after I noticed an
operational irregularity. At some point someone's got to try hacking
the cartridge.

Old Nick wrote:

On 13 Jan 2005 23:00:58 -0500,
lid (dwright) vaguely
proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Oh yea - Bypass Mode is a little irritating to engage. They did that
to discourage its regular use. You have to hold a key turned for at
least a second while starting the saw.

But it will be done...G

Seriously, I am surprised they included it. Even after readin your
other post.

If they didn't then a lot of people would need two saws, one with Sawstop
and one without.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"dwright" wrote in
message ...
Oh yea - Bypass Mode is a little irritating to engage. They did that
to discourage its regular use. You have to hold a key turned for at
least a second while starting the saw.

duct tape

Ha! It may not work. The switch is a momentary contact keyswitch and
it would have been easy for SawStop to program the routine so that it
must start open, be held closed for 1 to 2 seconds, and go back open
or else the saw won't run. I don't know that they did that though.
I might give it a try for the heck of it next time I'm out in the
shop.

Charles Spitzer wrote:


"dwright" wrote in
message ...
Oh yea - Bypass Mode is a little irritating to engage. They did that
to discourage its regular use. You have to hold a key turned for at
least a second while starting the saw.

duct tape

But does the key also have to be released in order to engage it?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 11:28:28 -0700, "Charles Spitzer"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


"dwright" wrote in
message ...
Oh yea - Bypass Mode is a little irritating to engage. They did that
to discourage its regular use. You have to hold a key turned for at
least a second while starting the saw.

duct tape


Like I said...it will be done! G

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 05:29:59 -0500, "J. Clarke"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Seriously, I am surprised they included it. Even after readin your
other post.

If they didn't then a lot of people would need two saws, one with Sawstop
and one without.

Oh I can see the need! I just feel it will _legally_ negate the whole
thing somewhere down the track, unless they cover their arses very
carefully.

"dwright" wrote in
message ...

At some point someone's got to try hacking
the cartridge.

Kind'a like buying a "chip" to gain 30HP on your car, I suppose.

J.,

The Bypass Mode routine is to hold the key turned while pulling out
the on/off paddle. Hold that key position for at least a second
while the motor spools up. Then release the key. It's worked every
time I tried it. I haven't tried subtle timing variations to explore
the engagement algorithm.

Dave

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:49:06 GMT, patrick conroy wrote:

"dwright" wrote in
message ...

At some point someone's got to try hacking
the cartridge.

Kind'a like buying a "chip" to gain 30HP on your car, I suppose.

You do know that that is how performance mods are legitimately
done these days, right?

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message

Kind'a like buying a "chip" to gain 30HP on your car, I suppose.

You do know that that is how performance mods are legitimately
done these days, right?

What? My water injector and the little fans in the carb venturii are
outdated?

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:15:43 GMT, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message

Kind'a like buying a "chip" to gain 30HP on your car, I suppose.

You do know that that is how performance mods are legitimately
done these days, right?

What? My water injector and the little fans in the carb venturii are
outdated?

Well, water injection is also a legitimate technique - reduces
combustion chamber temperature, and increases effective compression.
A two-for-one effect in engines which can take advantage of it
(turbo or super-charged, with engine management that can sense knock
and adjust timing accordingly). Not sure about fans in the
carb venturi, that sounds like a "magnets on the fuel line" kind of
thing?

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
Well, water injection is also a legitimate technique - reduces
combustion chamber temperature, and increases effective compression.
A two-for-one effect in engines which can take advantage of it
(turbo or super-charged, with engine management that can sense knock
and adjust timing accordingly). Not sure about fans in the
carb venturi, that sounds like a "magnets on the fuel line" kind of
thing?


Sure augmented thrust on our old turbojets when the water kicked in.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:13:21 -0500, George george@least wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
Well, water injection is also a legitimate technique - reduces
combustion chamber temperature, and increases effective compression.
A two-for-one effect in engines which can take advantage of it
(turbo or super-charged, with engine management that can sense knock
and adjust timing accordingly). Not sure about fans in the
carb venturi, that sounds like a "magnets on the fuel line" kind of
thing?

Sure augmented thrust on our old turbojets when the water kicked in.

Yup, it's real-world. Rolls-Royce was using it in aircraft engines
at least as far back as WWII. I imagine it works in similar ways in
a turbine engine (higher compression and able to burn more fuel cooler)?