On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 09:49:16 -0500, sandman
wrote:

But why twenty-nine?

Prime number. Primes are always funnier.

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:40:40 GMT, jo4hn wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

But...the swear words are nearly the same, unless she knew some that
I have not yet learned.

Relayed your comment to mom and her comment was something like: "He's
probably just another heathen Swede". :-)

I. Beg. Your. Pardon. Harrumpf. I've got my ancestry traced back
rather a long way, and we're _well_ on the right side of the border,
thankyouverymuch. Visited an ancestral farm this summer, it's been in the
family for rather a long time:
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middel...l?b=2592&s=240

We've been invited to the 650th year reunion coming up in 2008. The
man living there now is my 17th cousin, but he could pass for my mom's
brother; it's spooky how similar they look.

So...what are these uniquely Norwegian swear words, exactly? Anything
less mild than, ahem, "Pig's butt"?

Dave Hinz

Dave Hinz wrote:

rather a long way, and we're _well_ on the right side of the
border, thankyouverymuch. Visited an ancestral farm this
summer, it's been in the family for rather a long time:

http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=2592&s=240

Hey! No fair! What language is that? The machine translation (I
assumed norwegian) is about as bad as the original:

"Previous letter in trykkrekkefølgeb.3( nr.293) Next letter in
trykkrekkefølge (b.3 nr.295) b.III s.240 abbreviate Three Mænd
kundgjöre , that Harald paa Grove and his Housewife Ingeborg sold
at Gudbrand Thordssön Öresbol in Tokestad paa Prepare Ringsaker
). fount Efter Orig. p. Perg. in Norwegian Rigsarkiv. Segl fails.
lay 294. date 29 June 1358. location Baldeshol. Brevtekst ( at it
printed the edition ): Ollum monnum þeim sem þetta bref sea eder
h oe yra does not send Pall finish Græfsæimi Lean finish
Baldissole fair enough Æiriker baghghe q. g. fair enough sina
yder gerom additional kunniktt att finish Peters canteen dagh
varom additional finish Bal - these finish Nose finish þridiu are
rikiss herald vyrduleghs mister mister Have - the wife meder guds
nad Noreghs konoghs sam fair enough h oe yrdum finish att þau
heldo simultane saman finish æinni halfuo Haralder finish Grove
finish Nose fair enough Jngi - biorgh the wife his fair enough
Gudbrander Þorders son meder þi skilorde att fyrnefder Haralder
fair enough Jngibiorg væittu þi viderganghu att þau hafdo sælt
fyrnefdum Gudbrande iii aura bowl jærder j Tokastadum am liger
finish Prepare frialst fair enough hæimolt meder allum lunnyndum
am supplemented ligha vttan guard fair enough jnnan fair enough
vpp drill match penigh fair enough oe fsta () fair enough alla
þar j millum am ( in kaupp þæira arrived fair enough supplemented
sanynda here vm settum additional vor jnsigli firir þetta bref am
gort stayed are fair enough dæigi sem a chap sæighir."

[Roughly speaking]
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

[Roughly speaking]

Musta sent your spelll checker around the bend?

"I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The
phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde
Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the
olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit
pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a
porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by
istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? Yaeh, and I awlyas thought
slpeling was ipmorantt."

Anonymous

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:01:45 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

This is not my fault. This morning I was thinking, and I thought
about the recent thread on Pondering in the Workshop.

The Village Blacksmith



Under a spreading chestnut-tree
The village smithy stands;
The smith, a mighty man is he,
With large and sinewy hands;
And the muscles of his brawny arms
Are strong as iron bands.


His hair is crisp, and black, and long,
His face is like the tan;
His brow is wet with honest sweat,
He earns whate'er he can,
And looks the whole world in the face,
For he owes not any man.


Week in, week out, from morn till night,
You can hear his bellows blow;
You can hear him swing his heavy sledge,
With measured beat and slow,
Like a sexton ringing the village bell,
When the evening sun is low.


And children coming home from school
Look in at the open door;
They love to see the flaming forge,
And hear the bellows roar,
And catch the burning sparks that fly
Like chaff from a threshing-floor.


He goes on Sunday to the church,
And sits among his boys;
He hears the parson pray and preach,
He hears his daughter's voice,
Singing in the village choir,
And it makes his heart rejoice.


It sounds to him like her mother's voice,
Singing in Paradise!
He needs must think of her once more,
How in the grave she lies;
And with his hard, rough hand he wipes
A tear out of his eyes.


Toiling,---rejoicing,---sorrowing,
Onward through life he goes;
Each morning sees some task begin,
Each evening sees it close;
Something attempted, something done,
Has earned a night's repose.


Thanks, thanks to thee, my worthy friend,
For the lesson thou hast taught!
Thus at the flaming forge of life
Our fortunes must be wrought;
Thus on its sounding anvil shaped
Each burning deed and thought.


Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807-1882)



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Swingman wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message


[Roughly speaking]


Musta sent your spelll checker around the bend?

[hogwash snip]
Boy, you guys don't know nothin'. That is a telling of the story of the
last of the flying lutefisk which was shot down by Olaf Trygvesson in
the year 1043. Note that he is the father of every person in the
western world because 1) he personally fathered 43 sons and one daughter
and, 2) if you figure the number of your forebears at 4 generations per
100 years, the number in 1043 is 11,468,213 which was the approximate
population of the western world at the time.
ya sure then,
jonsson

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 15:43:47 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

rather a long way, and we're _well_ on the right side of the
border, thankyouverymuch. Visited an ancestral farm this
summer, it's been in the family for rather a long time:

http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=2592&s=240

Hey! No fair! What language is that?

Middle Norse, mixed with more than a little Latin. The "summary" at the
top is in Danish.

The machine translation (I
assumed norwegian) is about as bad as the original:

"Previous letter in trykkrekkefølgeb.3( nr.293) Next letter in
trykkrekkefølge (b.3 nr.295) b.III s.240 abbreviate Three Mænd
kundgjöre , that Harald paa Grove and his Housewife Ingeborg sold
at Gudbrand Thordssön Öresbol in Tokestad paa Prepare Ringsaker
(snip)
[Roughly speaking]

Less roughly, "3 men of the King's Magistrate witness that Haral of Lunde,
and his wife Ingeborg, sold to Gudbrand Thordsson (my ancestor) 3 units
of land, called Tokstad, in Forberg (in Ringsaker).

The text of the brief is in middle norse, the summary was written in
the 1700s or 1800s. It names the 3 magistrates (Paul of Graefsaeimi,
Godin of Baldissole, and Aerik Baghghe), as agents of King Hakonar.
I have a real translation done by an Icelandic friend, but that's
the gist. Later, Gudbrand bought the rest of Tokstad from this couple,
and the bill of sale says that they (Harald and Ingeborg) are free to live
at Tokstad, in the smaller house, until they die, as long as there
is "peace between the families" or words to that effect. It was
really cool to see the main house and the smaller house, and based on the
architecture of at least the main house, it's the one from that time.

There are timbers in the basement of the main house, that someone
from the local university dated to around the year 1000. Not sure what
kind of wood they were, though, there was no discernable grain or figure
and they were very dark.

Dave Hinz

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 03:40:14 GMT, jo4hn wrote:

Boy, you guys don't know nothin'. That is a telling of the story of the
last of the flying lutefisk which was shot down by Olaf Trygvesson in
the year 1043.

Why is Olaf's name sounding _very_ familiar to me right now? Can't place
him.

Note that he is the father of every person in the
western world because 1) he personally fathered 43 sons and one daughter
and, 2) if you figure the number of your forebears at 4 generations per
100 years, the number in 1043 is 11,468,213 which was the approximate
population of the western world at the time.

Well, that ignores a few things. In centuries past, the liklihood
that you'd meet, let alone marry, someone from more than 50 miles from
your home was very low. So, inbreeding at some level would occur, and
the number of ancestors is obviously going to be less than the population
of the world. Clearly, the chance of Gudbrand here having an ancestor in,
say, Japan, is prety low. Likewise Polynesia, and so on. I've got
one such situation where, 15 or so generations ago, I have a couple who
are married and are third cousins, one generation removed. Maybe they
didn't know, maybe they did and it was (rightfully) decided to be far
enough apart. I'm guessing they knew, because culturally the Norse
people put more than a little emphasis on genealogy. The record
keeping is very precise, and being able to find records online from,
say, 1358, is impressive.

Dave Hinz

Well, we seem to have wandered. Which is pretty well normal for
some of you. While well and good, it still doesn't answer the basic
questions.

What does - appropriate religion or ethnic group inserted here -
say when he injures a thumb with a mighty blow of a hammer, or otherwise
injures parts of the body.

Would a German say, "Sheis, sheis, sheis, Gott in Himmel"? Would
an Italian (in Italy, not the US) say, "Mama Mia"? Does a Buddhist say
something like, "Buddha on a crutch"? Does a Moslem say, "Allah Damn"?
Does an athiest say, "Ow, the laws of chance caught up with me big
time"?



JOAT
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind dont
matter, and those who matter dont mind.
- Dr Seuss

Tue, Dec 7, 2004, 9:50pm (EST+5) (Dave=A0Hinz)
says:
snip being able to find records online from, say, 1358, is impressive.

Highly. My mother is researching our family. We do know we had
people (father's side) on both sides of the Civil War, including one in
Andersonvlle, and one in the prison in New York. Very hard to find
records anywhere, as people will have different spellings, different
dates, and even different birth locations listed.

Example: Birth certificate has date, location of birth (town,
county), and name Marriage certificate (and it is know it's the same
person), different spelling. Death certificate, often has different
spelling, different date of birth, and it is still the same person.
Then finding where they are actually buried is a different task
altogether.

She has reliably been able to get back to about 1900, after that
records are very hazy. We do know my dad's relatives came from Ireland.
Many of them probably came thru NC, to TN and KY. Seems some others
came thru NY, down to VA, NC, etc. On my mother's side, they seem to
have been Dutch and English. She has a very interesting diary of one in
the Civil War, out west. Neat read.



JOAT
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind dont
matter, and those who matter dont mind.
- Dr Seuss

"J T" wrote in message

What does - appropriate religion or ethnic group inserted here -
say when he injures a thumb with a mighty blow of a hammer, or otherwise
injures parts of the body.

Would a German say, "Sheis, sheis, sheis, Gott in Himmel"? Would
an Italian (in Italy, not the US) say, "Mama Mia"? Does a Buddhist say
something like, "Buddha on a crutch"? Does a Moslem say, "Allah Damn"?
Does an athiest say, "Ow, the laws of chance caught up with me big
time"?

How about Quebec French? Lived in Montreal for 12 years when I was a kid.
Only French I remember is how to swear.

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 03:40:14 GMT, jo4hn wrote:


Boy, you guys don't know nothin'. That is a telling of the story of the
last of the flying lutefisk which was shot down by Olaf Trygvesson in
the year 1043.


Why is Olaf's name sounding _very_ familiar to me right now? Can't place
him.

[snip]
A king of Norway, see
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...f%20Trygvesson for a quickie.
mahalo,
jo4hn

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 15:43:47 -0600, Morris Dovey
wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:

rather a long way, and we're _well_ on the right side of
the border, thankyouverymuch. Visited an ancestral farm
this summer, it's been in the family for rather a long
time:

http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=2592&s=240


Hey! No fair! What language is that?

Middle Norse, mixed with more than a little Latin. The
"summary" at the top is in Danish.

Thanks. As a non-Latin, non-Norse speaker, non-Danish speaking
person I was baffled by the combination.

The machine translation (I assumed norwegian) is about as
bad as the original:

"Previous letter in trykkrekkefølgeb.3( nr.293) Next letter
in trykkrekkefølge (b.3 nr.295) b.III s.240 abbreviate Three
Mænd kundgjöre , that Harald paa Grove and his Housewife
Ingeborg sold at Gudbrand Thordssön Öresbol in Tokestad paa
Prepare Ringsaker

(snip)

[Roughly speaking]


Less roughly, "3 men of the King's Magistrate witness that
Haral of Lunde, and his wife Ingeborg, sold to Gudbrand
Thordsson (my ancestor) 3 units of land, called Tokstad, in
Forberg (in Ringsaker).

Hmm. All things (including my erroneous choice of "from"
language) considered, the software translator didn't do as badly
as I'd have expected.

I'm dazzled that the records are so conveniently available.

The text of the brief is in middle norse, the summary was
written in the 1700s or 1800s. It names the 3 magistrates
(Paul of Graefsaeimi, Godin of Baldissole, and Aerik Baghghe),
as agents of King Hakonar. I have a real translation done by
an Icelandic friend, but that's the gist. Later, Gudbrand
bought the rest of Tokstad from this couple, and the bill of
sale says that they (Harald and Ingeborg) are free to live at
Tokstad, in the smaller house, until they die, as long as
there is "peace between the families" or words to that effect.
It was really cool to see the main house and the smaller
house, and based on the architecture of at least the main
house, it's the one from that time.

It's cool even to me - and I don't have any [known] connection.
Is this recordkeeping typical? Do researchers/historians have
access to such data for all/most families or holdings?

There are timbers in the basement of the main house, that
someone from the local university dated to around the year
1000. Not sure what kind of wood they were, though, there was
no discernable grain or figure and they were very dark.

Next time you visit, bring back pictures!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:07:03 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Middle Norse, mixed with more than a little Latin. The
"summary" at the top is in Danish.

Thanks. As a non-Latin, non-Norse speaker, non-Danish speaking
person I was baffled by the combination.

Get in line. That doc and the 2 other pieces of documentation I have
for Gudbrand (later land sale, and a 1397 probate record divvying up
the property between his sons) are equally interesting but tantalyzingly
cryptic until translated.

Less roughly, "3 men of the King's Magistrate witness that
Haral of Lunde, and his wife Ingeborg, sold to Gudbrand
Thordsson (my ancestor) 3 units of land, called Tokstad, in
Forberg (in Ringsaker).

Hmm. All things (including my erroneous choice of "from"
language) considered, the software translator didn't do as badly
as I'd have expected.

That was probably in the Danish summary, which is close enough to
modern Danish that an e-translator wouldn't suck much worse than
normal on it.

I'm dazzled that the records are so conveniently available.

Yes. The churchbooks for Norway are, unfortunately, rarely if
ever available before the 1730s. However, the legal records
of land sales and probate are. The governmental agencies also
recorded people moving into and out of areas, so those records
can show where/when/who was moving around.

Sometimes the only record of a person you can find, is the church's
bookkeeping where the survivors paid to have the churchbell rung at
their funeral.

It's cool even to me - and I don't have any [known] connection.
Is this recordkeeping typical? Do researchers/historians have
access to such data for all/most families or holdings?

The "Diplomatarium Norvegicum" from which this comes, is a collection
of 21,000 such documents from the middle-ages, roughly 1200 to 1600 AD.
Basically, any old doc of this type that they could find has been
translated and transcribed, and put online.

Norway also has the 1664-1666 census online, which unfortunately only
lists the male landowners and their male sons. The 1801, 1865, 1880,
and 1900 census are all online, searchable by name, location, age,
place of birth, etc etc etc. Makes researching there much easier than,
say, anywhere else.

There are timbers in the basement of the main house, that
someone from the local university dated to around the year
1000. Not sure what kind of wood they were, though, there was
no discernable grain or figure and they were very dark.

Next time you visit, bring back pictures!

I've got gigabytes of 'em. How's your net connection? I'll send you
the URL as soon as things are back put together, webserver-wise.

Dave