Have been using a 6" Reliant jointer ( rarely use it, so better more
expensive one not on my list) to smooth edges in order to glue two
boards together. It seems the boards are not as smooth as I would
expect when butting the boards next to each other. As I stated rarely
use it but each time I can never get the edges perfect. Seems like one
or both edge is off a bit. I checked the alignment procedure in the
manual and tables seem aligned correctly. Maybe I may not be feeding
it through the jointer the right way. What can I be doing wrong ? What
is the correct way to feed a board edge through a feeder. Do you push
from rear or both front and rear?

dteckie said:

Have been using a 6" Reliant jointer ( rarely use it, so better more
expensive one not on my list) to smooth edges in order to glue two
boards together. It seems the boards are not as smooth as I would
expect when butting the boards next to each other. As I stated rarely
use it but each time I can never get the edges perfect. Seems like one
or both edge is off a bit. I checked the alignment procedure in the
manual and tables seem aligned correctly. Maybe I may not be feeding
it through the jointer the right way. What can I be doing wrong ? What
is the correct way to feed a board edge through a feeder. Do you push
from rear or both front and rear?

Proper joining on a power machine is a matter of personal technique.
But it is also dependant on the machine having proper setup, and that
the blades be sharp and aligned. I'm not familiar with that jointer,
what is the bed length? How long are the pieces you are trying to
join? There is disagreement on this point, and again, it depends on
your technique, but a rule of thumb is that you cannot properly join
boards longer than twice the length of the jointer bed.

When you mention that "the edges are not smooth", does that mean they
are not straight, or that the surface finish is rough? These two
symptoms have different remedies.

When you sight the edge of the board, are there large gaps between the
boards that suggest an incomplete joining job, or are they bowed end
to end - suggesting improper machine setup or possibly feed technique?

Or is the finish rough, with stray fibers of wood interfering with the
glue joint? This is more likely a result of dull blades or their
improper height settings, or characteristics of the wood and/or it's
grain direction, or even possibly feed speed. Are there chatter marks
or blade marks clearly visible on the edges?

Never remove more than 1/32" to 1/16" of wood on each pass through the
machine. Exactly how much depends on the type of wood and it's
hardness and propensity to tear out. If you still get tear-out,
inspect the grain pattern, sometimes running it through the jointer in
the opposite direction reduces or eliminates that tear-out.

Make certain you ultimately remove enough wood that the edges are
truly straight. One pass is seldom enough, unless some previous work
has been done to the edges.

When you feed the board, apply only moderate pressure downward, keep
it pressed against the fence tightly, and make sure the fences is set
at exactly the desired angle, probably 90 degrees. Get a good square
or micrometer type protractor to check this. A $10 square from Harbor
Freight or the Borg is probably NOT accurate. Starrett, Incra and
Veritas make good, accurate squares - with my nod going to the first.

Go slow enough that the blades do their job - you can sort of tell by
the sound the blades make - and experience plays a role here. Going
TOO slow results in impacting the wood fibers.

When passing the wood over the cutting head, remember that the outfeed
table is the one to keep the most downward pressure on. The cut has
been made, and keeping the leveled portion flat here ensures that the
remainder of the board is planed flat. Don't press so hard at both
ends that you actually bend the board over the cutting head. This
will result in a dished edge that bows inwards in the center.

I probably missed something here, but my suggestion would be to get
some metal free scrap and practice your technique on it rather than on
the material you have destined for a project.

FWIW,

Greg G.

Lots of words from Greg, but I think the key is to hold from the side, so
that the piece is flat against the fence, pressed to the table.

Sight the board first, taking incomplete passes to remove high spots. Most
of the time it means taking a bit off of each end - easiest, anyway - by
bridging the knives , sliding the guard aside, then feeding through. When
things are close, make the money pass by holding flat to the fence (LH),
down to the table (RH) about 6-8" short of the knives. Once you have about
8" on the outfeed, hold down tight with the Left, about 4" ahead of the
knives, and slide forward while maintaining pressure against the fence with
the Right.

Everything beyond 8-10" either side of the knives is merely support.

"dteckie" wrote in message
om...
Have been using a 6" Reliant jointer ( rarely use it, so better more
expensive one not on my list) to smooth edges in order to glue two
boards together. It seems the boards are not as smooth as I would
expect when butting the boards next to each other. As I stated rarely
use it but each time I can never get the edges perfect. Seems like one
or both edge is off a bit. I checked the alignment procedure in the
manual and tables seem aligned correctly. Maybe I may not be feeding
it through the jointer the right way. What can I be doing wrong ? What
is the correct way to feed a board edge through a feeder. Do you push
from rear or both front and rear?

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:05:32 -0400, Greg G. wrote:



I probably missed something here, but my suggestion would be to get
some metal free scrap and practice your technique on it rather than on
the material you have destined for a project.


Yeah - I've found, for just about everything on the jointer and the
planer, the lighter cuts I take, the less pressure I apply -- the
better things turn out.

Also - saw this "tiplet" from DJM - when doing edge to edge glue ups,
for Board A, put "up" side against fence. For Board B, put "down" side
against fence. (If I recall correctly).

That way if fence is not perpendicular to table, the difference
cancels out.

"patrick conroy" wrote in message

Also - saw this "tiplet" from DJM - when doing edge to edge glue ups,
for Board A, put "up" side against fence. For Board B, put "down" side
against fence. (If I recall correctly).

When you do your layout for your glue-up, and after you've used your
"cabinet maker's mark" of choice to mark the order of the boards, put an "I"
on one side, and an "O" on the other side, of each joint with a piece of
chalk/pencil.

"I" (inside) means that face goes against the jointer fence.

"O" (outside) means that face goes away from the jointer fence.

In addition, when stacking your boards next to the jointer in preparation
for jointing, stack them so that when you pick them up they will fall in
this order naturally.

This will go a long way to insuring you take advantage of complementary
angles without getting mixed up, and will speed the process tremendously.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/04/04

In article , patrick conroy wrote:

Also - saw this "tiplet" from DJM - when doing edge to edge glue
ups, for Board A, put "up" side against fence. For Board B, put
"down" side against fence. (If I recall correctly).

Another way to remember this is to always lead with ends from the same
end of the glueup.

Cheers, Wayne

....interesting technique to make "incomplete passes"...usually find that
gives me all kinds of trouble on succeeding passes but maybe I've gone too
far along the edge.

Follow-up question that may get to the OP's original question...say that in
the jointing process a board becomes slightly wider on one end than the
other (it seems to happen even with a perfectly aligned machine...only
talking about 32nds, usually at one or both ends that tell be I have
introduced or reintroduced a "bow" but still noticable since I added more
light to the shop!) Do succeeding passes go wide-end first into the cutter
or narrow-end in an effort to bring them back into alignment? Or is the
correct answer to reduce the amount of light in the shop where I don't
notice?


"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Lots of words from Greg, but I think the key is to hold from the side, so
that the piece is flat against the fence, pressed to the table.

Sight the board first, taking incomplete passes to remove high spots.
Most
of the time it means taking a bit off of each end - easiest, anyway - by
bridging the knives , sliding the guard aside, then feeding through. When
things are close, make the money pass by holding flat to the fence (LH),
down to the table (RH) about 6-8" short of the knives. Once you have
about
8" on the outfeed, hold down tight with the Left, about 4" ahead of the
knives, and slide forward while maintaining pressure against the fence
with
the Right.

Everything beyond 8-10" either side of the knives is merely support.

"dteckie" wrote in message
om...
Have been using a 6" Reliant jointer ( rarely use it, so better more
expensive one not on my list) to smooth edges in order to glue two
boards together. It seems the boards are not as smooth as I would
expect when butting the boards next to each other. As I stated rarely
use it but each time I can never get the edges perfect. Seems like one
or both edge is off a bit. I checked the alignment procedure in the
manual and tables seem aligned correctly. Maybe I may not be feeding
it through the jointer the right way. What can I be doing wrong ? What
is the correct way to feed a board edge through a feeder. Do you push
from rear or both front and rear?

I believe the solution to your problem is to run the board thru the table
saw to the two sides parallel.


"Tom Kohlman" wrote in message
t...
...interesting technique to make "incomplete passes"...usually find that
gives me all kinds of trouble on succeeding passes but maybe I've gone too
far along the edge.

Follow-up question that may get to the OP's original question...say that
in the jointing process a board becomes slightly wider on one end than the
other (it seems to happen even with a perfectly aligned machine...only
talking about 32nds, usually at one or both ends that tell be I have
introduced or reintroduced a "bow" but still noticable since I added more
light to the shop!) Do succeeding passes go wide-end first into the
cutter or narrow-end in an effort to bring them back into alignment? Or is
the correct answer to reduce the amount of light in the shop where I don't
notice?


"George" george@least wrote in message
...
Lots of words from Greg, but I think the key is to hold from the side, so
that the piece is flat against the fence, pressed to the table.

Sight the board first, taking incomplete passes to remove high spots.
Most
of the time it means taking a bit off of each end - easiest, anyway - by
bridging the knives , sliding the guard aside, then feeding through.
When
things are close, make the money pass by holding flat to the fence (LH),
down to the table (RH) about 6-8" short of the knives. Once you have
about
8" on the outfeed, hold down tight with the Left, about 4" ahead of the
knives, and slide forward while maintaining pressure against the fence
with
the Right.

Everything beyond 8-10" either side of the knives is merely support.

"dteckie" wrote in message
om...
Have been using a 6" Reliant jointer ( rarely use it, so better more
expensive one not on my list) to smooth edges in order to glue two
boards together. It seems the boards are not as smooth as I would
expect when butting the boards next to each other. As I stated rarely
use it but each time I can never get the edges perfect. Seems like one
or both edge is off a bit. I checked the alignment procedure in the
manual and tables seem aligned correctly. Maybe I may not be feeding
it through the jointer the right way. What can I be doing wrong ? What
is the correct way to feed a board edge through a feeder. Do you push
from rear or both front and rear?

Are you flattening the face before jointing the edges? If the faces are
flat, then use the tip for complementary angles and it should be
better.
--
Mac Cool

Greg G. wrote in message . ..
dteckie said:


Wow lots of advice and different techniques. Much appreciated!!!

Have been using a 6" Reliant jointer ( rarely use it, so better more
expensive one not on my list) to smooth edges in order to glue two
boards together. It seems the boards are not as smooth as I would
expect when butting the boards next to each other. As I stated rarely
use it but each time I can never get the edges perfect. Seems like one
or both edge is off a bit. I checked the alignment procedure in the
manual and tables seem aligned correctly. Maybe I may not be feeding
it through the jointer the right way. What can I be doing wrong ? What
is the correct way to feed a board edge through a feeder. Do you push
from rear or both front and rear?

Proper joining on a power machine is a matter of personal technique.
But it is also dependant on the machine having proper setup, and that
the blades be sharp and aligned. I'm not familiar with that jointer,
what is the bed length? How long are the pieces you are trying to
join? There is disagreement on this point, and again, it depends on
your technique, but a rule of thumb is that you cannot properly join
boards longer than twice the length of the jointer bed.

When you mention that "the edges are not smooth", does that mean they
are not straight, or that the surface finish is rough? These two
symptoms have different remedies.

When you sight the edge of the board, are there large gaps between the
boards that suggest an incomplete joining job, or are they bowed end
to end - suggesting improper machine setup or possibly feed technique?


The boards have a very slight minute gap (line). The machine is setup
properly as best as I can following manual and online procedures for
aligning the blades to outfeed table, and fence squared. That is why
I'm suspecting it's my feed technique.


Or is the finish rough, with stray fibers of wood interfering with the
glue joint? This is more likely a result of dull blades or their
improper height settings, or characteristics of the wood and/or it's
grain direction, or even possibly feed speed. Are there chatter marks
or blade marks clearly visible on the edges?

Never remove more than 1/32" to 1/16" of wood on each pass through the
machine. Exactly how much depends on the type of wood and it's
hardness and propensity to tear out. If you still get tear-out,
inspect the grain pattern, sometimes running it through the jointer in
the opposite direction reduces or eliminates that tear-out.



Make certain you ultimately remove enough wood that the edges are
truly straight. One pass is seldom enough, unless some previous work
has been done to the edges.

When you feed the board, apply only moderate pressure downward, keep
it pressed against the fence tightly, and make sure the fences is set
at exactly the desired angle, probably 90 degrees. Get a good square
or micrometer type protractor to check this. A $10 square from Harbor
Freight or the Borg is probably NOT accurate. Starrett, Incra and
Veritas make good, accurate squares - with my nod going to the first.

I have table set for approx 1/16 removal . I do apply pressure against
fence. When beginning to cut say a small piece 8" - 12 " long, aside
from applying pressure against the fence do you apply downward
pressure at the front of board, middle or rear of board ???? I usually
apply light pressure constant downward pressure on the cutter with
left hand and right hand apply pressure against the fence.

Go slow enough that the blades do their job - you can sort of tell by
the sound the blades make - and experience plays a role here. Going
TOO slow results in impacting the wood fibers.

When passing the wood over the cutting head, remember that the outfeed
table is the one to keep the most downward pressure on. The cut has
been made, and keeping the leveled portion flat here ensures that the
remainder of the board is planed flat. Don't press so hard at both
ends that you actually bend the board over the cutting head. This
will result in a dished edge that bows inwards in the center.

Thanks I thinks I will try outfeed table pressure, I think that may be
my problem too much pressure causing a slight bow. Thanks Greg.

I probably missed something here, but my suggestion would be to get
some metal free scrap and practice your technique on it rather than on
the material you have destined for a project.

FWIW,

Greg G.

Greg G. wrote in message . ..
dteckie said:


Wow lots of advice and different techniques. Much appreciated!!!

Have been using a 6" Reliant jointer ( rarely use it, so better more
expensive one not on my list) to smooth edges in order to glue two
boards together. It seems the boards are not as smooth as I would
expect when butting the boards next to each other. As I stated rarely
use it but each time I can never get the edges perfect. Seems like one
or both edge is off a bit. I checked the alignment procedure in the
manual and tables seem aligned correctly. Maybe I may not be feeding
it through the jointer the right way. What can I be doing wrong ? What
is the correct way to feed a board edge through a feeder. Do you push
from rear or both front and rear?

Proper joining on a power machine is a matter of personal technique.
But it is also dependant on the machine having proper setup, and that
the blades be sharp and aligned. I'm not familiar with that jointer,
what is the bed length? How long are the pieces you are trying to
join? There is disagreement on this point, and again, it depends on
your technique, but a rule of thumb is that you cannot properly join
boards longer than twice the length of the jointer bed.

When you mention that "the edges are not smooth", does that mean they
are not straight, or that the surface finish is rough? These two
symptoms have different remedies.

When you sight the edge of the board, are there large gaps between the
boards that suggest an incomplete joining job, or are they bowed end
to end - suggesting improper machine setup or possibly feed technique?


The boards have a very slight minute gap (line). The machine is setup
properly as best as I can following manual and online procedures for
aligning the blades to outfeed table, and fence squared. That is why
I'm suspecting it's my feed technique.


Or is the finish rough, with stray fibers of wood interfering with the
glue joint? This is more likely a result of dull blades or their
improper height settings, or characteristics of the wood and/or it's
grain direction, or even possibly feed speed. Are there chatter marks
or blade marks clearly visible on the edges?

Never remove more than 1/32" to 1/16" of wood on each pass through the
machine. Exactly how much depends on the type of wood and it's
hardness and propensity to tear out. If you still get tear-out,
inspect the grain pattern, sometimes running it through the jointer in
the opposite direction reduces or eliminates that tear-out.



Make certain you ultimately remove enough wood that the edges are
truly straight. One pass is seldom enough, unless some previous work
has been done to the edges.

When you feed the board, apply only moderate pressure downward, keep
it pressed against the fence tightly, and make sure the fences is set
at exactly the desired angle, probably 90 degrees. Get a good square
or micrometer type protractor to check this. A $10 square from Harbor
Freight or the Borg is probably NOT accurate. Starrett, Incra and
Veritas make good, accurate squares - with my nod going to the first.

I have table set for approx 1/16 removal . I do apply pressure against
fence. When beginning to cut say a small piece 8" - 12 " long, aside
from applying pressure against the fence do you apply downward
pressure at the front of board, middle or rear of board ???? I usually
apply light pressure constant downward pressure on the cutter with
left hand and right hand apply pressure against the fence.

Go slow enough that the blades do their job - you can sort of tell by
the sound the blades make - and experience plays a role here. Going
TOO slow results in impacting the wood fibers.

When passing the wood over the cutting head, remember that the outfeed
table is the one to keep the most downward pressure on. The cut has
been made, and keeping the leveled portion flat here ensures that the
remainder of the board is planed flat. Don't press so hard at both
ends that you actually bend the board over the cutting head. This
will result in a dished edge that bows inwards in the center.

Thanks I thinks I will try outfeed table pressure, I think that may be
my problem too much pressure causing a slight bow. Thanks Greg.

I probably missed something here, but my suggestion would be to get
some metal free scrap and practice your technique on it rather than on
the material you have destined for a project.

FWIW,

Greg G.

Still the standard approach in texts I've seen.

Remember, in toward the middle of the board you're taking nothing, only at
the ends, which are high.

Working with center high is a bit dicier, but can be done. High ends are
best, and that's the sapwood side anyway.

"Tom Kohlman" wrote in message
t...
...interesting technique to make "incomplete passes"...usually find that
gives me all kinds of trouble on succeeding passes but maybe I've gone too
far along the edge.

In article , Greg G. says...
Proper joining on a power machine is a matter of personal technique.
But it is also dependant on the machine having proper setup, and that
the blades be sharp and aligned. I'm not familiar with that jointer,
what is the bed length? How long are the pieces you are trying to
join? There is disagreement on this point, and again, it depends on
your technique, but a rule of thumb is that you cannot properly join
boards longer than twice the length of the jointer bed.


I don't usually indulge in "me too" posts but I do have too here. Very
accurate, concise and clearly stated post.

--
MikeG
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net

dteckie said:

Wow lots of advice and different techniques. Much appreciated!!!

Hope it helped - despite it being of "many words..."
Good Luck on polishing your technique.

I have table set for approx 1/16 removal . I do apply pressure against
fence. When beginning to cut say a small piece 8" - 12 " long, aside
from applying pressure against the fence do you apply downward
pressure at the front of board, middle or rear of board ???? I usually
apply light pressure constant downward pressure on the cutter with
left hand and right hand apply pressure against the fence.

Another thing which may help is that after performing major stock
removal, a touch-up pass at 1/32 or less often smooths up the finish
for glue-ups.

Thanks I thinks I will try outfeed table pressure, I think that may be
my problem too much pressure causing a slight bow. Thanks Greg.

Another thing to watch for - with all that pushing and shoving,
especially with the short stock you mentioned - be VERY careful not to
let the stock be pulled from your grip by the cutterheads - you could
end up planing your fingers from your hand. It's easy to forget how
sharp and dangerous these blades can be, and I would definitely
recommend using a couple of push blocks. I'd hate to be addressing
you as nubby... ;-)

FWIW,

Greg G.

MikeG said:

In article , Greg G. says...
Proper joining on a power machine is a matter of personal technique.
But it is also dependant on the machine having proper setup, and that
the blades be sharp and aligned. I'm not familiar with that jointer,
what is the bed length? How long are the pieces you are trying to
join? There is disagreement on this point, and again, it depends on
your technique, but a rule of thumb is that you cannot properly join
boards longer than twice the length of the jointer bed.


I don't usually indulge in "me too" posts but I do have too here. Very
accurate, concise and clearly stated post.

Why, Thank You! blush... :-)


Greg G.

(dteckie) wrote in
m:
snip
When beginning to cut say a small piece 8" - 12 " long, aside
from applying pressure against the fence do you apply downward
pressure at the front of board, middle or rear of board ????

Boards this short should probably be jointed with a hand plane, rather than
a power jointer.

Almost any hand plane will be much safer, and suffice.

Patriarch