Posted on Sun, Oct. 03, 2004





On the House | 'TOH' may need work, but it still looks good

By Al Heavens

Inquirer Columnist


Don't interpret this as a sign of weakness or advanced age, but I've
decided to reach an accommodation with the folks at This Old House.

This decision doesn't come out of the blue. I made it as I watched the
rough version of the first episode of the show's 25th season, which
premieres on most public-television stations at 8 p.m. Thursday. It
reminded me why I started watching in the first place: I wanted to
learn something from smart people in a short period without having to
acknowledge publicly how little I knew.

That was 1979, as I approached homeownership for the first time; the
project was in Dorchester, Mass. I couldn't believe anyone would buy a
house in such rough shape. And week after week, I was in awe of how
well things could turn out, if you knew what you were doing or hired
someone who did.

I finished watching this season's first episode with that same
feeling. Although I know a lot more than I did when I was 29
(including not to buy fixer-uppers again), I concluded that there was
still plenty to learn from these guys, or at least much that I've
learned that I need to remember.

As anyone who has time to waste knows, This Old House is one of at
least a hundred TV home shows. Some are dreadful, employing
out-of-work actors between soap-opera gigs instead of experts. Most
are superfluous.

In general, they reinforce what has become an all-too-common belief
among my countrymen and women: that if you whine and complain long
enough, you will get what you want. Patience is a vice. And if you get
what you whine about for free, you cry crocodile tears of joy in front
of the camera and the actor-host asks you the magic question: "How do
you feel?"

I want to throw up. How do you feel?

A lot of viewers seem to thrive on this treacle - the modern
bread-and-circus offering known as the "reality show." Instead of
swords and nets, our gladiators are armed with 20-pound sledgehammers
and reciprocating saws.

Let's not forget the rule that everyone has to be pretty. I'd prefer
the face-lifts be limited to the house, thank you. And since when is
the ability of a designer measured in the number of lighted candles
set up around a bathtub?

Also, though I realize medium-density fiberboard is a versatile
material, if you think that the armoire Trading Spaces carpenter Ty
Pennington has thrown together with MDF will be around to pass down to
your grandchildren, you need to visit an antiques store for a reality
check.

But back to This Old House. I've never gotten a reasonable explanation
why Steve Thomas left the show after 14 years. I don't think it's fair
that Bob Vila, who was the show's first host and is, too, celebrating
25 years on TV this year, wasn't mentioned in passing on the first
episode - even acknowledging the 17-year-old feud between Vila and
creative director/founder Russ Morash.

And it is way past the time that a woman, designer Alexa Hampton,
became part of the TOH team. When you consider the number of women
viewers this show still has, 21/2 decades of male domination doesn't
send any message I'm interested in hearing.

I do think they also need to engage in more lower-end, everyday
renovation projects.

But those are small points. The ill will between Vila and Morash isn't
the viewers' problem. I liked Thomas, but he was more of a ringmaster
than a host. The new guy is OK. And with shows designed to provide
information, the messenger isn't as important as the message.

And the message, as articulated by master carpenter Norm Abram, is,
"we fix up old houses."

This season's project, like its first, is a house the show is buying
to renovate and sell. This one is in Carlisle, Mass., a town of 5,300
northwest of Boston.

There is a lot of work to do on this 1849 Greek Revival farmhouse, its
barn, and its various appendages.

With wavy floors, space that barely accommodates a 21st-century
lifestyle and little up to code (and they haven't even looked behind
the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
expenditure.

As contractor Tom Silva put it, "Drama is expensive."

The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Tom Watson posts:

This season's project, like its first, is a house the show is buying
to renovate and sell. This one is in Carlisle, Mass., a town of 5,300
northwest of Boston.

There is a lot of work to do on this 1849 Greek Revival farmhouse, its
barn, and its various appendages.

With wavy floors, space that barely accommodates a 21st-century
lifestyle and little up to code (and they haven't even looked behind
the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
expenditure.

As contractor Tom Silva put it, "Drama is expensive."

The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.

Yeah, well, now we have the reason for my not watching right there. There is no
possible way that a $679,000 fixer-upper is going to impinge on my lifestyle,
so WTF is the point of watching. The costs on the first shows were at least
semi-rational, if beyond the capability of most of us 25 years ago. The current
line up of homes being refurbed is not related to any reality I'll ever know,
unless The Donald drops dead and leaves me a couple hundred mil. In which case,
I'll buy a house around here, anyway, for under a half mil, ready to go.

Charlie Self
"Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles."
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

I too think that some of the projects tend to run on the absurd side,
budget-wise. I am honestly tired of seeing the guys going to (insert
far away exotic locale here) to hand-pick hand-painted tiles for a back
splash. What's next, Norm explains "The ball bearings in these full
extension drawer slides were manufactured on the International Space
Station just for TOH, so we are sure they are perfectly round"?

But I do admit to copying/using an idea of theirs once in a while.
Sometimes I like a lamp style, deck material, etc. And the contractors
they use definitely are not hacks. They build correctly and heavy duty,
which I like.

IIRC, the explanation behind TOH was mainly to be a guide on how to
have a contractor do the work on your house. You know, what questions to
ask during the selection process, how the work should be done, etc. But
overall, I prefer Hometime over TOH, if I had to choose to watch only
one show.

Hey, at least we have a lot of choices.... Could be worse.
Mark L.



Tom Watson wrote:
Posted on Sun, Oct. 03, 2004





On the House | 'TOH' may need work, but it still looks good

By Al Heavens

Inquirer Columnist




I do think they also need to engage in more lower-end, everyday
renovation projects.

I agree. The whole thing has gotten insane.

The local PBS station used to have a show by a guy somewhere in the
midwest, who was an engineer/remodeler. He actually walked you through
how to inspect a fixer upper before you bought it. Then went through
how to finance it, select and write contracts with the contractors you
might need, handle progress payments and lein releases, etc. He also
recomended good "how to" books, so the novice could determine if a
particular peice of work was something they could handle.

That was a great show, but it disapeared here after the first season. I
guess the reality of the situation wasn't as interesting as watching a
herd of professionals, build/remodel something most of us will never
even walk through the door, let alone own.

Charlie Self wrote:

Tom Watson posts:


This season's project, like its first, is a house the show is buying
to renovate and sell. This one is in Carlisle, Mass., a town of 5,300
northwest of Boston.

There is a lot of work to do on this 1849 Greek Revival farmhouse, its
barn, and its various appendages.

With wavy floors, space that barely accommodates a 21st-century
lifestyle and little up to code (and they haven't even looked behind
the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
expenditure.

As contractor Tom Silva put it, "Drama is expensive."

The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.


Yeah, well, now we have the reason for my not watching right there. There is no
possible way that a $679,000 fixer-upper is going to impinge on my lifestyle,
so WTF is the point of watching. The costs on the first shows were at least
semi-rational, if beyond the capability of most of us 25 years ago. The current
line up of homes being refurbed is not related to any reality I'll ever know,
unless The Donald drops dead and leaves me a couple hundred mil. In which case,
I'll buy a house around here, anyway, for under a half mil, ready to go.

Charlie Self
"Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles."
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...


Yeah, well, now we have the reason for my not watching right there. There
is no
possible way that a $679,000 fixer-upper is going to impinge on my
lifestyle,
so WTF is the point of watching. The costs on the first shows were at
least
semi-rational, if beyond the capability of most of us 25 years ago. The
current
line up of homes being refurbed is not related to any reality I'll ever
know,

They changed direction a long time ago. From a real "how-to" show to an
advertising medium to showcase new products that Joe Sixpack will never
afford to have in his house. My guess is that is what the PBS members like
so the show if being fine tuned to suit them.

The Ask TOH show still has a bit of reality that most of us can relate to.
Ed

On 03 Oct 2004 13:41:13 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

|Tom Watson posts:
|
|This season's project, like its first, is a house the show is buying
|to renovate and sell. This one is in Carlisle, Mass., a town of 5,300
|northwest of Boston.
|
|There is a lot of work to do on this 1849 Greek Revival farmhouse, its
|barn, and its various appendages.
|
|With wavy floors, space that barely accommodates a 21st-century
|lifestyle and little up to code (and they haven't even looked behind
|the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
|expenditure.
|
|As contractor Tom Silva put it, "Drama is expensive."
|
|The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.
|
|Yeah, well, now we have the reason for my not watching right there. There is no
|possible way that a $679,000 fixer-upper is going to impinge on my lifestyle,
|so WTF is the point of watching. The costs on the first shows were at least
|semi-rational, if beyond the capability of most of us 25 years ago. The current
|line up of homes being refurbed is not related to any reality I'll ever know,
|unless The Donald drops dead and leaves me a couple hundred mil. In which case,
|I'll buy a house around here, anyway, for under a half mil, ready to go.

I hate to admit it, but SWMBO and I watch a lot of the "drama" shows,
NYPD, Law and Order, etc. She sometimes gets caught up in the plots
and makes comments like, "They should have convicted him." or some
such.

I have to remind her that, "It's only a TV show" and not reality.

I met and talked to Steve Thomas once and I made a comment similiar to
my wife's, "Why do you do such expensive projects?"

His response was pretty much like mine to my wife, "It's just a TV
show. It's entertainment, not reality."

otforme (Charlie Self) wrote in
:


snips follow

Tom Watson posts:
the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
expenditure.


The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.

Yeah, well, now we have the reason for my not watching right there.
There is no possible way that a $679,000 fixer-upper is going to
impinge on my lifestyle...


I live a few towns away from that. Around here, $679,000 buys you
maybe a modest 1200 square foot house on a tiny lot.

For local conditions, it might end up quite the bargain.

John Doe responds:

The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.

Yeah, well, now we have the reason for my not watching right there.
There is no possible way that a $679,000 fixer-upper is going to
impinge on my lifestyle...


I live a few towns away from that. Around here, $679,000 buys you
maybe a modest 1200 square foot house on a tiny lot.

For local conditions, it might end up quite the bargain.

Gotta be Calif. Some time ago, I was told my small house and 2 acres would be
worth upwards of a quarter mil out there. Maybe 10-12 years ago. Given
inflation, god alone knows now, I guess, but 100K is pushing it here, except
for the 25' x 48' shop my wife and I built.

Charlie Self
"Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles."
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

But back to This Old House. I've never gotten a reasonable explanation
why Steve Thomas left the show after 14 years. I don't think it's fair
that Bob Vila, who was the show's first host and is, too, celebrating
25 years on TV this year, wasn't mentioned in passing on the first
episode - even acknowledging the 17-year-old feud between Vila and
creative director/founder Russ Morash.

This was also the case in TOH Magazine when Thomas left the show. All
references to him were purged like it was the Soviet Union and he was
Stalin. That's why I was pleased to see this month's 25th Anniversary issue
of TOH Magazine. They actually acknowledged all 3 hosts by name and in
pictures. I have been a charter subscriber and this is by far my favorite
issue.

Lee




--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

Charlie ...

Yeah, well, now we have the reason for my not watching right there. There
is no
possible way that a $679,000 fixer-upper is going to impinge on my
lifestyle,
so WTF is the point of watching. The costs on the first shows were at least
semi-rational, if beyond the capability of most of us 25 years ago. The
current
line up of homes being refurbed is not related to any reality I'll ever
know,
unless The Donald drops dead and leaves me a couple hundred mil. In which
case,
I'll buy a house around here, anyway, for under a half mil, ready to go.

In the current 25th anniversary issue of TOH magazine they have an article
on the "25 Tools & materials that are revolutionizing the way we renovate
our homes." With it there is a sidebar called "5 Things that have
changed -- for the worse." Oddly, number 4 is "McMansionitis." Editorially
they slam what they refer to as "behemoths" yet they have such a long
history of revering them.

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...

Yeah, well, now we have the reason for my not watching right there. There
is no
possible way that a $679,000 fixer-upper is going to impinge on my
lifestyle,
so WTF is the point of watching. The costs on the first shows were at
least
semi-rational, if beyond the capability of most of us 25 years ago. The
current
line up of homes being refurbed is not related to any reality I'll ever
know,
unless The Donald drops dead and leaves me a couple hundred mil. In which
case,
I'll buy a house around here, anyway, for under a half mil, ready to go.


Although many do not like Bob Vila, the show has not been the same since he
left.

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 20:04:28 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


Although many do not like Bob Vila, the show has not been the same since he
left.


Agreed.

He was a good Abbot to Nahm's Costello.

He was a good Falstaff to Nahm's Henry.

He was a good Lewis to Nahm's Martin.

He was a good Sears to Nahm's Delta.

(Did I just say that out loud?!!)



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Charlie,
There was another article, I think it was in the same paper, or maybe
the previous weekend's. Anyway, it discussed *CURRENT* prices in Calif.
real estate.

The lead was that $10 MILLION bought a 'tear down'. That is, the present
house {more like a compound, from the photo} was leveled so that another
monstrosity could be built. It continued that $15 MILLION got you a
'starter mansion'.

Offset this with the election rhetoric, and the nightly news, indicating
that a large portion of the population has NO health insurance, is
termed 'the working poor', lost their job - or live in fear of that
possibility, and seem unlikely to be able to retire with any comfort.

I'm must just be living in an alternate reality . . .

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop


----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Self"
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 14:45
Subject: TOH Article in Today's Paper


SNIP

Gotta be Calif. Some time ago, I was told my small house and 2 acres
would be
worth upwards of a quarter mil out there. . . .

Lee Gordon said:

In the current 25th anniversary issue of TOH magazine they have an article
on the "25 Tools & materials that are revolutionizing the way we renovate
our homes." With it there is a sidebar called "5 Things that have
changed -- for the worse." Oddly, number 4 is "McMansionitis." Editorially
they slam what they refer to as "behemoths" yet they have such a long
history of revering them.

Lee

Maybe they are condemning the poorly constructed crap we call
McMansions, rather than their size... ?


Greg G.

I watched TOH from the beginning, Laughed at Bob touching everything and
"helping out". I loved to watch Norm do his thing.
Laughed at Steve touching everything and "helping out." Loved to watch Norm
& Tommy do their thing.
This new guy? What's his name? Irritates me because Norm should be the shows
host. 25 years? Sheesh what's a guy gotta do? Hopefully it was offered to
him (along with ATOH) and he turned them down.
Keep the NYW going Norm. **** on TOH.

"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
Posted on Sun, Oct. 03, 2004





On the House | 'TOH' may need work, but it still looks good

By Al Heavens

Inquirer Columnist


Don't interpret this as a sign of weakness or advanced age, but I've
decided to reach an accommodation with the folks at This Old House.

This decision doesn't come out of the blue. I made it as I watched the
rough version of the first episode of the show's 25th season, which
premieres on most public-television stations at 8 p.m. Thursday. It
reminded me why I started watching in the first place: I wanted to
learn something from smart people in a short period without having to
acknowledge publicly how little I knew.

That was 1979, as I approached homeownership for the first time; the
project was in Dorchester, Mass. I couldn't believe anyone would buy a
house in such rough shape. And week after week, I was in awe of how
well things could turn out, if you knew what you were doing or hired
someone who did.

I finished watching this season's first episode with that same
feeling. Although I know a lot more than I did when I was 29
(including not to buy fixer-uppers again), I concluded that there was
still plenty to learn from these guys, or at least much that I've
learned that I need to remember.

As anyone who has time to waste knows, This Old House is one of at
least a hundred TV home shows. Some are dreadful, employing
out-of-work actors between soap-opera gigs instead of experts. Most
are superfluous.

In general, they reinforce what has become an all-too-common belief
among my countrymen and women: that if you whine and complain long
enough, you will get what you want. Patience is a vice. And if you get
what you whine about for free, you cry crocodile tears of joy in front
of the camera and the actor-host asks you the magic question: "How do
you feel?"

I want to throw up. How do you feel?

A lot of viewers seem to thrive on this treacle - the modern
bread-and-circus offering known as the "reality show." Instead of
swords and nets, our gladiators are armed with 20-pound sledgehammers
and reciprocating saws.

Let's not forget the rule that everyone has to be pretty. I'd prefer
the face-lifts be limited to the house, thank you. And since when is
the ability of a designer measured in the number of lighted candles
set up around a bathtub?

Also, though I realize medium-density fiberboard is a versatile
material, if you think that the armoire Trading Spaces carpenter Ty
Pennington has thrown together with MDF will be around to pass down to
your grandchildren, you need to visit an antiques store for a reality
check.

But back to This Old House. I've never gotten a reasonable explanation
why Steve Thomas left the show after 14 years. I don't think it's fair
that Bob Vila, who was the show's first host and is, too, celebrating
25 years on TV this year, wasn't mentioned in passing on the first
episode - even acknowledging the 17-year-old feud between Vila and
creative director/founder Russ Morash.

And it is way past the time that a woman, designer Alexa Hampton,
became part of the TOH team. When you consider the number of women
viewers this show still has, 21/2 decades of male domination doesn't
send any message I'm interested in hearing.

I do think they also need to engage in more lower-end, everyday
renovation projects.

But those are small points. The ill will between Vila and Morash isn't
the viewers' problem. I liked Thomas, but he was more of a ringmaster
than a host. The new guy is OK. And with shows designed to provide
information, the messenger isn't as important as the message.

And the message, as articulated by master carpenter Norm Abram, is,
"we fix up old houses."

This season's project, like its first, is a house the show is buying
to renovate and sell. This one is in Carlisle, Mass., a town of 5,300
northwest of Boston.

There is a lot of work to do on this 1849 Greek Revival farmhouse, its
barn, and its various appendages.

With wavy floors, space that barely accommodates a 21st-century
lifestyle and little up to code (and they haven't even looked behind
the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
expenditure.

As contractor Tom Silva put it, "Drama is expensive."

The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"Wayne K." wrote in message
...
I watched TOH from the beginning, Laughed at Bob touching everything and
"helping out". I loved to watch Norm do his thing.
Laughed at Steve touching everything and "helping out." Loved to watch
Norm
& Tommy do their thing.
This new guy? What's his name? Irritates me because Norm should be the
shows
host. 25 years? Sheesh what's a guy gotta do? Hopefully it was offered to
him (along with ATOH) and he turned them down.
Keep the NYW going Norm. **** on TOH.


I read an article years ago about Bob Vila and TOH. He "acts" like he does
not know much of what is going on so that he can ask questions that a
typical home owner might ask. IIRC originally he was doing this type work
on his own and was approached to do TV. I suspect that they did not want to
put a know it all in his place so that the theme would carry on.
Unfortunately the show now helps the stupidly rich spend their money.

Ron Magen writes:

The lead was that $10 MILLION bought a 'tear down'. That is, the present
house {more like a compound, from the photo} was leveled so that another
monstrosity could be built. It continued that $15 MILLION got you a
'starter mansion'.

Offset this with the election rhetoric, and the nightly news, indicating
that a large portion of the population has NO health insurance, is
termed 'the working poor', lost their job - or live in fear of that
possibility, and seem unlikely to be able to retire with any comfort.

I'm must just be living in an alternate reality .

Yeah. I'd like another alternate reality: spend 1 million to move my 2 acres to
CA, then sell it for 5.

Charlie Self
"Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles."
Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:49:37 GMT, "Ron Magen" wrote:

|Charlie,
|There was another article, I think it was in the same paper, or maybe
|the previous weekend's. Anyway, it discussed *CURRENT* prices in Calif.
|real estate.
|
|The lead was that $10 MILLION bought a 'tear down'. That is, the present
|house {more like a compound, from the photo} was leveled so that another
|monstrosity could be built. It continued that $15 MILLION got you a
|'starter mansion'.
|
|Offset this with the election rhetoric, and the nightly news, indicating
|that a large portion of the population has NO health insurance, is
|termed 'the working poor', lost their job - or live in fear of that
|possibility, and seem unlikely to be able to retire with any comfort.
|
|I'm must just be living in an alternate reality . . .

My younger daughter bought a 1-BR condo in Costa Mesa, CA for $95K
about five years ago. Currently, it's "worth" over 250K. The older
daughter bought a tract house in Brentwood, CA (the northern
Brentwood, not the OJ Brentwood) for about $200K four years ago. The
houses in her neighborhood are selling the day they hit the market for
$450K

Tucson, where I live is going the same way. A number of years ago,
IBM built a facility here and moved people in from CA and CO. They
were selling their houses for big bux and needed to reinvest the dough
or pay taxes on it. The real estate market here accommodated them by
doubling the price of housing overnight.

About 10 years ago, Hughes Aircraft (where I worked) bought the
missile business component of General Dynamics (San Diego, Pomona, CA)
and closed an engineering division in Conoga Park, CA and moved those
folks here. The same thing happened to the housing market.

We now have $1M building lots in this area and today's paper has open
house ads from just one real estate firm for 10 houses over $1M, two
of them listed by a friend of mine at $5.2M and $1.8M respectively.

Another friend lives in a gated community of upscale houses (he built
his) and has "neighbors" who own million dollar houses and have never
spent a night in them. They come here to visit some friend in the
neighborhood who convinces them to buy something here, so they write a
check.

Alternate reality indeed.

"Wes Stewart" wrote in message

Alternate reality indeed.

The "tax spenders" are lovin' the hell out those valuations. Ever since we
got an autonomous "property appraisal district" here, the valuations have
gone through the roof. 110% in the last 7 years.

Politician's can lower the tax rate a measly tenth of a percent to make it
look like they've done something, knowing full well the inflated appraisals
will kick the actual tax paid by 10% a year.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

I lost interest when they hired a banker to be a ww'g host.


Can't stomach the new host (2 years ago) of Victory Garden either. A
little too - light in the loafers. Go ahead - call me a homophobe.



On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:10:19 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:



Don't interpret this as a sign of weakness or advanced age, but I've
decided to reach an accommodation with the folks at This Old House.

This decision doesn't come out of the blue. I made it as I watched the

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:10:19 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:


This season's project, like its first, is a house the show is buying
to renovate and sell. This one is in Carlisle, Mass., a town of 5,300
northwest of Boston.


As contractor Tom Silva put it, "Drama is expensive."

The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.



Regards,
Tom.

I think the show reached a low point a few months ago when they
renovated a house in Bermuda (or was it the Bahamas?) for the owner of
a Bed and Breakfast.

Norm and company running around in Bermuda shorts, knee socks and
blazer was a sight to behold. Not!


http://mywebpages.comcast.net/wgoffe...oodworking.htm

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:10:19 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:

Posted on Sun, Oct. 03, 2004
.... snip

With wavy floors, space that barely accommodates a 21st-century
lifestyle and little up to code (and they haven't even looked behind
the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
expenditure.


I've been gettting TOH magazine for a couple of years since we are
planning a kitchen (now enroaching on living-room and family area) remodel.
This past month was their 25'th anniversary edition and included some of
the top 25 best changes to home building over the past 25 years. They also
had a few comments of trends they found not so good. In grand irony
bordering on high elitism, one of the "bad" trends was the rise of the
"McMansion" with a few elitist comments about how these 6000 sf homes were
rising over the "graves" of older large homes. The message seemed to be,
"these homes we remodel that are in the millions are meant for the worthy
and deserving, don't even imagine that the likes of *you* should aspire to
such large digs."

As contractor Tom Silva put it, "Drama is expensive."

The first house only cost $18,000. Drama was a lot cheaper in 1979.



Regards,
Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Greg ...

Maybe they are condemning the poorly constructed crap we call
McMansions, rather than their size... ?

Nope. They're talking sze. The exact wording of the paragraph is "It used
to be that a 3000-square=foot house was big; now it's got to be 5,000 or
6,000 feet, or more. Besides all the land and resources they eat up, these
behemoths often rise over the graves of perfectly fine older homes whose
only fault was being too small."

Lee


--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

I love the folks who bitch and moan when the real estate market bombs
in their local and they all claim to have "lost $x million" when in
reality they have NOT lost anything unless the property value NOW is
less than they paid for it originally.

Saw an article on a guy crying the blues that the bottom fell out of
the real estate market, and his home that he paid $50k for back when
is not ONLY worth $100k, instead of the $1mil+ that the crazy market
had valued it at. Should have sold it when it was valued at $1+mil or
shut up

John

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:04:26 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

"Wes Stewart" wrote in message

Alternate reality indeed.

The "tax spenders" are lovin' the hell out those valuations. Ever since we
got an autonomous "property appraisal district" here, the valuations have
gone through the roof. 110% in the last 7 years.

Politician's can lower the tax rate a measly tenth of a percent to make it
look like they've done something, knowing full well the inflated appraisals
will kick the actual tax paid by 10% a year.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
news:1096864733.JCos7FAOJXKYMvTrSUsSug@teranews...
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:10:19 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:

Posted on Sun, Oct. 03, 2004
... snip

With wavy floors, space that barely accommodates a 21st-century
lifestyle and little up to code (and they haven't even looked behind
the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
expenditure.


I've been gettting TOH magazine for a couple of years since we are
planning a kitchen (now enroaching on living-room and family area)
remodel.
This past month was their 25'th anniversary edition and included some of
the top 25 best changes to home building over the past 25 years. They
also
had a few comments of trends they found not so good. In grand irony
bordering on high elitism, one of the "bad" trends was the rise of the
"McMansion" with a few elitist comments about how these 6000 sf homes were
rising over the "graves" of older large homes. The message seemed to be,
"these homes we remodel that are in the millions are meant for the worthy
and deserving, don't even imagine that the likes of *you* should aspire to
such large digs."

To me a McMansion is a 5,000SF house on a 10,000SF lot built of gyp board
and T1-11.
Not a multi-million $ house.

-J

J wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
news:1096864733.JCos7FAOJXKYMvTrSUsSug@teranews...
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 07:10:19 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:

Posted on Sun, Oct. 03, 2004
... snip

With wavy floors, space that barely accommodates a 21st-century
lifestyle and little up to code (and they haven't even looked behind
the walls yet), the $679,000 purchase price may be the smallest
expenditure.


I've been gettting TOH magazine for a couple of years since we are
planning a kitchen (now enroaching on living-room and family area)
remodel.
This past month was their 25'th anniversary edition and included some of
the top 25 best changes to home building over the past 25 years. They
also
had a few comments of trends they found not so good. In grand irony
bordering on high elitism, one of the "bad" trends was the rise of the
"McMansion" with a few elitist comments about how these 6000 sf homes
were
rising over the "graves" of older large homes. The message seemed to be,
"these homes we remodel that are in the millions are meant for the worthy
and deserving, don't even imagine that the likes of *you* should aspire
to such large digs."

To me a McMansion is a 5,000SF house on a 10,000SF lot built of gyp board
and T1-11.
Not a multi-million $ house.

The problem is that in some parts of the country multimillion dollar houses
are not multimillion dollar houses, they're cheap crap houses tastelessly
done in a good location.

-J

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)