Jeff Harper wrote:

"WoodMangler" wrote in message
news (snip)
There are alternatives to the Dem/Gop status quo.

www.lp.org

We must choose the best candidate of the two, or the lesser of two evils if
you prefer, because a vote for a third candidate is *almost* the same as no
vote.

(snip)

Actually Jeff, that's not true, not in most states in a presidential election.
You CAN vote for a third party candidate in most places and have the vote mean
something. What's more, it's about the ONLY election where you can do that.

The reason is our 'peculiar institution' of the electoral college. In effect we
elect our president by states and the vote totals matter only within the states.
While there are 'swing' states where the vote is extremely close, in most cases
one or the other candidate has a clear margin by election day.

To take my example, Bush has a lock on Arizona. If he's alive and breathing in
November, he will carry the state and even the DNC and the Kerry campaign have
recognized this.

What that means is that it doesn't matter in the presidential race how I vote.
Bush carries Arizona. So I'm free to vote my conscience by going with a third
party candidate.

Nor is this a wasted vote by any means. It strengthens whichever party I chose
to vote for. Given the way our election laws work in regard to third parties, a
vote for a third party candidate at the top of the ticket will help that party
keep a place on the ballot. Even better as third parties build 'substantial'
totals, mainstream politicians start paying more attention to them.

--RC (Who hasn't decided whether to vote Libertarian out of conviction or Peace
and Freedom out of nostalgia.)

"Rick Cook" wrote in message
...
Once again, Larry. Having spent 20 years or so of listening carefully to
politicians at all levels, taken as a whole I'd rate Bush's answer on
tribal
sovereignty comes out somewhere above average.


Did you see the 3 part interview on O'Reilly? Bush was very good -- none of
the stammering. He was clear, eloquent and straightforward. When he gets
going on something he really cares about he is quite good. For one, you can
see it when people ask him about his faith and how that affects his
decisions. Usually he gets a flip question like, "People are afraid that
your faith will affect your decisions too much. What do you have to say
about that." Then he blows the question out of the water with a much deeper
answer.

dwhite

In article , (Nate Perkins) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
om...
Well, his scores, as reported in earlier posts in this thread, would seem
to
qualify him. I'm not sure what you find so amusing. What were *your*
scores?

Heh, none of your business.

Imagine my surprise...

Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post your
own.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Rick Cook" wrote in message


Jeff Harper wrote:
(snip)

Actually Jeff,

DFTT

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

On 29 Sep 2004 22:47:30 -0700, Nate Perkins wrote:

Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

You know, I don't have a _clue_ what my SATs were. And Mensa is overrated.
I'm not sure how either of these are relevant. I'm more interested in
knowing why Kerry claims to care about terrorism and stuff, when he missed
75%+ of the senate intelligence committee meetings that it was his job to
be at. I'm more interested in why he brought up his Vietnam service when
there are _so_ many questions about his actions during, and after, the
war. I'm more interested in why he said, then didn't say, that he had
a "Chinese Assault Rifle", and then says that he didn't say it, an
aide said it, and it's a Russian bolt-action rifle, and broken besides.
I'm also interested in why he said that at the same time he was saying
that letting the "assault weapons" ban expire would help terrorists
make Americans less safe. A jaded and cynical voter (such as myself)
would suspect that the "I have a Chinese assault weapon" thing was an
attempt to schmooze a gun-friendly magazine, in an attempt to say "Look,
I'm one of y'all folks, don't worry about my long history of being Sarah
Brady's lapdog, I'm one of you really" that he got caught lying about.

If he had a message, stuck to it, and didn't pull slicky-boy tricks
like the last Democrat who was in that office, he might get more respect.
But, he's too similar, too soon after Clinton, and that taste is still
in peoples' mouths.

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Harper" wrote in message
...
I don't know. But I bet it was pretty high.

Uh huh. Which do you think is more likely?

a) they're sooooo high that Kerry feels it will embarass the President
if
they were released, so he's holding them back out of consideration for
the
President.
b) they're around or lower than the President's and there is no way in
hell
he'll release them and suffer by comparison

Yeah, right. They were so low Yale accepted him without legacy status
as
Bush had.

The fact is, he hasn't released the scores, so until he does, we won't
know
for sure. But I know politicians. If Kerry got a 1400, that would be
seen
as an advantage over Bush. If there's an advantage that could be had by
releasing them, you can bet that the test score would be miraculously
uncovered by CBS News.

In other words, you don't know **** but are prepared to believe some crap
you yourself fabricated.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

Hey, if they can't uncover them, they'll generate 'em. ;-)

You are perfectly prepared to accept Fatherlee's fabricated non sequiter
that Kerry got a lower score on the SAT than Bush, yet you have the nerve to
point your finger at anyone else?

Pathetic. Both of you.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

"Dan White" wrote in message
t...

"Leon" wrote in message
...

"Dan White" wrote in message
t...

Not to mention the all-powerful master debator Al Gore got thumped in
3
debates against that dummy Bush.


I think what really killed Gore was that every one was sick of hearing
about
that Top Secret retirement plan he so commonly referred to as the "
Loooock
Booox".


and all the sighing. Bottom line is he got out played.


You three are all gathered around in a circle jerking each other off. You
remind me of the monkeys in The Jungle Book who know they are the smartest
because they always say so.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Harper" wrote in message

LOL.. I'm laughing at *you* swingman.


Ah, c'mon, Jeff ...

I'm still laughing at you.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

Same position as Kerry on his SATs and the rest of his military records.
Must be hiding something.


You really are a moron. Kerry got into Yale without being a legacy as Bush
was.

Yeah, he's a closet idiot. Right.

Moron.

Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post
your
own.

That probably makes sense to you, doesn't it? Moron.

Bush's intellect is relevant to all of us. Nate's is not.

Do you need me to draw you pictures?

What are *your* SAT and IQ scores, ****-for-brains? I can tell from your
posts and the way you resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than argue on
merit that you are none too bright.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

Do you collect right-wing talk show propaganda? Falsehoods, half-truths,
out of context statements, inaccurate paraphrasing, deliberate
mischaracterization, outright lies.

If there's anything legitimate to your posts, it's lost in the load of
bull**** you shovel.



"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On 29 Sep 2004 22:47:30 -0700, Nate Perkins
wrote:

Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

You know, I don't have a _clue_ what my SATs were. And Mensa is
overrated.
I'm not sure how either of these are relevant. I'm more interested in
knowing why Kerry claims to care about terrorism and stuff, when he missed
75%+ of the senate intelligence committee meetings that it was his job to
be at. I'm more interested in why he brought up his Vietnam service when
there are _so_ many questions about his actions during, and after, the
war. I'm more interested in why he said, then didn't say, that he had
a "Chinese Assault Rifle", and then says that he didn't say it, an
aide said it, and it's a Russian bolt-action rifle, and broken besides.
I'm also interested in why he said that at the same time he was saying
that letting the "assault weapons" ban expire would help terrorists
make Americans less safe. A jaded and cynical voter (such as myself)
would suspect that the "I have a Chinese assault weapon" thing was an
attempt to schmooze a gun-friendly magazine, in an attempt to say "Look,
I'm one of y'all folks, don't worry about my long history of being Sarah
Brady's lapdog, I'm one of you really" that he got caught lying about.

If he had a message, stuck to it, and didn't pull slicky-boy tricks
like the last Democrat who was in that office, he might get more respect.
But, he's too similar, too soon after Clinton, and that taste is still
in peoples' mouths.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
news:1096428568.Qyc8CA9AZuG2uqznYbqRvQ@teranews...

..Educated opinion of a professional can apply
equally well to the stated opinion of a tarot card reader

Dolt.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

"Rick Cook" wrote in message
...


Jeff Harper wrote:

"WoodMangler" wrote in message
news (snip)
There are alternatives to the Dem/Gop status quo.

www.lp.org

We must choose the best candidate of the two, or the lesser of two evils
if
you prefer, because a vote for a third candidate is *almost* the same as
no
vote.

(snip)

Actually Jeff, that's not true, not in most states in a presidential
election.
You CAN vote for a third party candidate in most places and have the vote
mean
something. What's more, it's about the ONLY election where you can do
that.

The reason is our 'peculiar institution' of the electoral college. In
effect we
elect our president by states and the vote totals matter only within the
states.
While there are 'swing' states where the vote is extremely close, in most
cases
one or the other candidate has a clear margin by election day.

To take my example, Bush has a lock on Arizona. If he's alive and
breathing in
November, he will carry the state and even the DNC and the Kerry campaign
have
recognized this.

What that means is that it doesn't matter in the presidential race how I
vote.
Bush carries Arizona. So I'm free to vote my conscience by going with a
third
party candidate.

Nor is this a wasted vote by any means. It strengthens whichever party I
chose
to vote for. Given the way our election laws work in regard to third
parties, a
vote for a third party candidate at the top of the ticket will help that
party
keep a place on the ballot. Even better as third parties build
'substantial'
totals, mainstream politicians start paying more attention to them.

--RC (Who hasn't decided whether to vote Libertarian out of conviction or
Peace
and Freedom out of nostalgia.)


Rick, I suppose you are correct. For those in situations similar to yours.
In Florida it's a different story.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:14:37 -0400, Jeff Harper wrote:

What are *your* SAT and IQ scores, ****-for-brains? I can tell from your
posts and the way you resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than argue on
merit that you are none too bright.

Ow. Ow ow ow ow ow. My irony detectors just asploded. Get a mirror,
Jeff, you need it.

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:18:37 -0400, Jeff Harper wrote:
Do you collect right-wing talk show propaganda? Falsehoods, half-truths,
out of context statements, inaccurate paraphrasing, deliberate
mischaracterization, outright lies.

Which specific claims that I have made (that you top-posted your response
to - smooth move there) do you disagree with? Here, I'll do all the scrolling
for you and go get 'em...

I'm more interested in
knowing why Kerry claims to care about terrorism and stuff, when he missed
75%+ of the senate intelligence committee meetings that it was his job to
be at.

Are you saying he didn't miss those meetings, or are you saying it wasn't
his job to attend committee meetings for a committee he was on?

I'm more interested in why he brought up his Vietnam service when
there are _so_ many questions about his actions during, and after, the
war.

Are you saying his war record isn't questionable (he admitted to war
crimes, specifically using a .50 BMG against civilians)? Are you saying
that his post-service activities aren't questionable? Throwing (someone
else's) medals over the fence and all that?

I'm more interested in why he said, then didn't say, that he had
a "Chinese Assault Rifle", and then says that he didn't say it, an
aide said it, and it's a Russian bolt-action rifle, and broken besides.

Are you saying that he didn't give that interview, or are you saying
that he (or his aid) got the wrong rifle, or what's your disagreement with
my statement, specifically?

I'm also interested in why he said that at the same time he was saying
that letting the "assault weapons" ban expire would help terrorists
make Americans less safe.

Are you saying he didn't make that statement in his speech to Sarah Brady's
group, or are you saying that a flash surpressor and bayonet lug actually do
help terrorists make American's lives less safe? If "yes" to the latter,
are you serious in proposing that terrorists are buying semi-automatic
rifles, legally, on the USA'n market, rather than say the full-auto versions
they have countries full of?

If he had a message, stuck to it, and didn't pull slicky-boy tricks
like the last Democrat who was in that office, he might get more respect.
But, he's too similar, too soon after Clinton, and that taste is still
in peoples' mouths.

....and finally, are you disagreeing that Kerry lies when it's convenient,
and when caught he weasels around (oh, it's a Russian broken bolt gun,
not a Chinese assault rifle)?

Please respond with specifics to these questions rather than your usual
personal attacks and vague language. If I just see more of the same, then
it's pretty simple to discount anything at all you have to say as the
ramblings of a light-weight parrot who can't discuss actual issues. Just
like Kerry.

In article , "Jeff Harper" wrote:
Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post
your
own.

That probably makes sense to you, doesn't it? Moron.

Bush's intellect is relevant to all of us. Nate's is not.

Criticism of anyone's intellect is unseemly, coming from that person's
inferiors....

Do you need me to draw you pictures?

... speaking of which....

What are *your* SAT and IQ scores, ****-for-brains?

1450 total: 660 verbal, 790 math. Last real IQ test I took, about 20 years
ago, had me somewhere in the 150s. The online test at tickle.com showed me at
144 this June. No idea how accurate that one is, or whether it's been properly
normed.

For what it's worth: I was born in July 1958. I received my Bachelor of
Science degree in May 1978 [Computer science, Butler University, Indianapolis
IN], at age 19 years 321 days. I looked young for my age, too. It was a
*bitch* finding a job -- some interviewers didn't believe I was really a
college grad. :-)

I can tell from your
posts and the way you resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than argue on
merit that you are none too bright.

Oh, this is rich. You call me "moron" and "****-for-brains", you called
someone else a "****ing moron" -- and then *you* accuse *me* of ad hominems.

Go play somewhere else, troll.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

(Doug Miller) wrote in message om...
In article , (Nate Perkins) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
om...
Well, his scores, as reported in earlier posts in this thread, would seem
to
qualify him. I'm not sure what you find so amusing. What were *your*
scores?

Heh, none of your business.

Imagine my surprise...

Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post your
own.

And why the devil should I have to do that? Have you decided that
qualifications are required in order to be allowed to ridicule Dumbya?
Somehow I don't think you are going to agree with me no matter what
my SAT scores were.

I don't care if you are a janitor or a solid state physicist: the
idea of Bush chimping around at a Mensa society meeting is enough to
make about half of us voters snicker.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message

Go play somewhere else, troll.

Hehe ... sounds familiar.

I've got him killfiled now, but should've snapped to that on the very first
post.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

In article ,
(Nate "Dumber than Bush" Perkins) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
om...
In article ,
(Nate Perkins) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
om...
Well, his scores, as reported in earlier posts in this thread, would
seem
to
qualify him. I'm not sure what you find so amusing. What were *your*
scores?

Heh, none of your business.

Imagine my surprise...

Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post your
own.

And why the devil should I have to do that? Have you decided that
qualifications are required in order to be allowed to ridicule Dumbya?

Yep. If you're gonna call somebody stupid, you oughta at least be smarter than
he is. Think about it, Nate: if he's stupid, but he's smarter than you...
where does that leave you? "Dumber than Bush" -- now that's something you can
really be proud of, Nate.

Somehow I don't think you are going to agree with me no matter what
my SAT scores were.

If you're smarter than the President, I'll agree that you have the right to
call him stupid. I'll still think you're wrong about that, but that's a
separate issue.

I don't care if you are a janitor or a solid state physicist: the
idea of Bush chimping around at a Mensa society meeting is enough to
make about half of us voters snicker.

Somehow, I suspect I'm much more likely to encounter the President at a Mensa
meeting, than I am to encounter you.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Jeff Harper" wrote in message
...
Same position as Kerry on his SATs and the rest of his military records.
Must be hiding something.


You really are a moron. Kerry got into Yale without being a legacy as
Bush
was.

Yeah, he's a closet idiot. Right.

Moron.



You lost the argument so, as every good leftie does, you start name calling.
You are a real genius.

"Jeff Harper" wrote in message
...
The fact is, he hasn't released the scores, so until he does, we won't
know
for sure. But I know politicians. If Kerry got a 1400, that would be
seen
as an advantage over Bush. If there's an advantage that could be had by
releasing them, you can bet that the test score would be miraculously
uncovered by CBS News.

In other words, you don't know **** but are prepared to believe some crap
you yourself fabricated.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

That's right. I don't know because Kerry refuses to release the
information. Just like his military records. Based on Kerry's history of
doing anything that serves his purpose at that particular moment, I feel
pretty safe in my assumption that his scores are either lower or in line
with the President's. You don't like it? Tough ****.

todd

"Jeff Harper" wrote in message
...
Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post
your
own.

That probably makes sense to you, doesn't it? Moron.

Bush's intellect is relevant to all of us. Nate's is not.

Do you need me to draw you pictures?

What are *your* SAT and IQ scores, ****-for-brains? I can tell from your
posts and the way you resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than argue on
merit that you are none too bright.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

You know someone's losing it when every other word is "moron" and
"****-for-brains". I love it when he calls someone a "moron" and then
accuses them of "ad hominem" attacks in the same post. LOL.

todd

In article , "Todd Fatheree" wrote:

You know someone's losing it when every other word is "moron" and
"****-for-brains". I love it when he calls someone a "moron" and then
accuses them of "ad hominem" attacks in the same post. LOL.

You're right, he's losing it, but Jeff's just a troll anyway. He's never
posted anything on-topic here. He's also been posting the same sort of drivel
on alt.home.repair lately, and I've never seen him post anything on-topic
there either.

He'll disappear soon enough.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
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"Nate Perkins" wrote in message
om...

I don't care if you are a janitor or a solid state physicist: the
idea of Bush chimping around at a Mensa society meeting is enough to
make about half of us voters snicker.

Why would he bother? Mensa is nothing but a puzzle solving club.

dwhite

In article , "Dan White" wrote:

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message
. com...

I don't care if you are a janitor or a solid state physicist: the
idea of Bush chimping around at a Mensa society meeting is enough to
make about half of us voters snicker.

Why would he bother? Mensa is nothing but a puzzle solving club.

Actually, it's nothing of the sort.

"Mensa has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human intelligence
for the benefit of humanity, to encourage research in the nature,
characteristics and uses of intelligence, and to promote stimulating
intellectual and social opportunities for its members. "

http://www.mensa.org/info.php


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article , "Dan White"
wrote:

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message
. com...

I don't care if you are a janitor or a solid state physicist: the
idea of Bush chimping around at a Mensa society meeting is enough to
make about half of us voters snicker.

Why would he bother? Mensa is nothing but a puzzle solving club.

Actually, it's nothing of the sort.

"Mensa has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human
intelligence
for the benefit of humanity, to encourage research in the nature,
characteristics and uses of intelligence, and to promote stimulating
intellectual and social opportunities for its members. "

http://www.mensa.org/info.php


OK, let's make that self-important puzzle solver club??

dwhite

If good people always chose the lesser of two evils, rather than
supporting and acting on what they truly believed, the world would be a
truly different place today. I daresay the US wouldn't exist had our
founders chosen to take the easy way out.
I don't believe that following your conscience is ever a waste of effort.
Even if nothing comes of it this election cycle, it will eventually make a
difference.

Agreed.

Most people don't fit exactly on the narrow path between right
and left. The two party system has become so polarized that there is
little room for moderates in either camp. Not that they aren't there, it's
just not good for the career to buck the party line.

Polarized? They're the same thing with different spin. There's no
real choice between Dem. and Rep. They both harp on the same issues,
and choose their stands based on polls of the great unwashed. And-
neither of them does what they say they are going to do.

I'm all for ejecting the incumbents that aren't worthy to lead our
federal, state, and local governments. Problem is, if we keep reaching
into the same two barrels for replacements, we'll keep getting the same
results.

Agreed there as well.

I hope you're weathering the storm OK down there. I'm putting the plywood
back on the windows here in N. Florida. This is sure getting old...

Russ

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:20:00 -0400, "Jeff Harper"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
news:1096428568.Qyc8CA9AZuG2uqznYbqRvQ@teranews.. .

..Educated opinion of a professional can apply
equally well to the stated opinion of a tarot card reader

Dolt.


Well, if you insist, yes, we could also apply the statement equally well
to your opinions.

Bye Jeff, you've been fun for a troll for a bit, but the ad hominems have
gotten a bit much and your parroting of democrat talking points has gotten
stale.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

"Al Reid" wrote in message
news:SyZ6d.4241$6f.2161@trndny02...
"Jeff Harper" wrote in message
...
Same position as Kerry on his SATs and the rest of his military
records.
Must be hiding something.


You really are a moron. Kerry got into Yale without being a legacy as
Bush
was.

Yeah, he's a closet idiot. Right.

Moron.



You lost the argument so, as every good leftie does, you start name
calling.
You are a real genius.


Yeah, I lost the argument. You're right. And you're right about Kerry
hiding the fact that he is not very bright.

Moron.

(Doug Miller) wrote in message . com...
In article ,
(Nate "Dumber than Bush" Perkins) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
om...
In article ,
(Nate Perkins) wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote in message
om...
Well, his scores, as reported in earlier posts in this thread, would
seem
to
qualify him. I'm not sure what you find so amusing. What were *your*
scores?

Heh, none of your business.

Imagine my surprise...

Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post your
own.

And why the devil should I have to do that? Have you decided that
qualifications are required in order to be allowed to ridicule Dumbya?

Yep. If you're gonna call somebody stupid, you oughta at least be smarter than
he is. Think about it, Nate: if he's stupid, but he's smarter than you...
where does that leave you? "Dumber than Bush" -- now that's something you can
really be proud of, Nate.

Heh, I'm really not worried about being dumber than Bush. But I do
believe in a democracy where any citizen is free to say that the
president as dumb as a brick -- and not be required to present his IQ
test results in order to do so.

There were millions of people tonight that were watching the debates.
Many of them came to the conclusion that you don't have to be a genius
yourself to spot a bumbling idiot president when you see one.

Somehow I don't think you are going to agree with me no matter what
my SAT scores were.

If you're smarter than the President, I'll agree that you have the right to
call him stupid. I'll still think you're wrong about that, but that's a
separate issue.

I don't care if you are a janitor or a solid state physicist: the
idea of Bush chimping around at a Mensa society meeting is enough to
make about half of us voters snicker.

Somehow, I suspect I'm much more likely to encounter the President at a Mensa
meeting, than I am to encounter you.

You might be right on that. I don't much get into the silly
self-appointed "genius" clubs, so I doubt I would ever go to Mensa.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post
your
own.

That probably makes sense to you, doesn't it? Moron.

Bush's intellect is relevant to all of us. Nate's is not.

Criticism of anyone's intellect is unseemly, coming from that person's
inferiors....

Uh huh. Do you recognize, now that it's been pointed out to you, how
fallacious your above argument is? The notion that Nate should post his
scores if he's going to question Bush's.

Are you capable of recognizing and admitting it?



Do you need me to draw you pictures?

.. speaking of which....

What are *your* SAT and IQ scores, ****-for-brains?

1450 total: 660 verbal, 790 math. Last real IQ test I took, about 20 years
ago, had me somewhere in the 150s. The online test at tickle.com showed me
at
144 this June. No idea how accurate that one is, or whether it's been
properly
normed.

For what it's worth: I was born in July 1958. I received my Bachelor of
Science degree in May 1978 [Computer science, Butler University,
Indianapolis
IN], at age 19 years 321 days. I looked young for my age, too. It was a
*bitch* finding a job -- some interviewers didn't believe I was really a
college grad. :-)

If you do say so your own self?

By the way, I went to eleven public schools before I dropped out of high
school and joined the army. I got a GED and got into college on academic
probation. My interest was learning, not grades, yet I ended up graduating
first in my class of several thousand..had a cum. g.p.a. of 4.0..yada yada
yada. So, I'm not particularly wowed by your academic background.

And I have some doubt about your accuracy--especially the IQ. Based on the
evidence you've exhibited in this thread.


I can tell from your
posts and the way you resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than argue on
merit that you are none too bright.

Oh, this is rich. You call me "moron" and "****-for-brains", you called
someone else a "****ing moron" -- and then *you* accuse *me* of ad
hominems.

Yeah, I insult you. (I'm tired of taking **** politely on here.) But my
arguments, most of 'em anyway, stand on their own and don't rely on ad
hominems. Unlike yours.


Go play somewhere else, troll.

LOL. Again an example of poor reasoning. This was a political thread.
I've discussed/argued the subject.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Doug Miller" wrote in message

Go play somewhere else, troll.

Hehe ... sounds familiar.

I've got him killfiled now, but should've snapped to that on the very
first
post.


Then you can't see me calling you a horse's ass now, can you?

LOL

"Todd Fatheree" wrote in message
news
"Jeff Harper" wrote in message
...
Yeah, I'm imagining ol' George bragging about his 1200 (reweighted)
SATs and hobnobbing at a Mensa club. ROFL.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post
your
own.

That probably makes sense to you, doesn't it? Moron.

Bush's intellect is relevant to all of us. Nate's is not.

Do you need me to draw you pictures?

What are *your* SAT and IQ scores, ****-for-brains? I can tell from
your
posts and the way you resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than argue
on
merit that you are none too bright.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

You know someone's losing it when every other word is "moron" and
"****-for-brains". I love it when he calls someone a "moron" and then
accuses them of "ad hominem" attacks in the same post. LOL.

My insults were "in return."

And, unlike yours, they were not the basis of my arguments. They were
supplementary.

****-for-brains.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

You know someone's losing it when every other word is "moron" and
"****-for-brains". I love it when he calls someone a "moron" and then
accuses them of "ad hominem" attacks in the same post. LOL.

You're right, he's losing it, but Jeff's just a troll anyway. He's never
posted anything on-topic here. He's also been posting the same sort of
drivel
on alt.home.repair lately, and I've never seen him post anything on-topic
there either.

He'll disappear soon enough.

Let me ask you a question. Were my posts about the subject of this thread?

Your low-level reasoning ability is beginning to bore me.

If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post
your
own.

And why the devil should I have to do that? Have you decided that
qualifications are required in order to be allowed to ridicule Dumbya?

Yep. If you're gonna call somebody stupid, you oughta at least be smarter
than
he is. Think about it, Nate: if he's stupid, but he's smarter than you...
where does that leave you? "Dumber than Bush" -- now that's something you
can
really be proud of, Nate.

That's **** poor reasoning, Miller. Two major flaws.


Somehow I don't think you are going to agree with me no matter what
my SAT scores were.

If you're smarter than the President, I'll agree that you have the right
to
call him stupid. I'll still think you're wrong about that, but that's a
separate issue.

The "right to call him stupid." Again with your brilliant logic. A third
flaw.

(And by that reasoning, you'll respect my "right" to call *you* stupid.)


I don't care if you are a janitor or a solid state physicist: the
idea of Bush chimping around at a Mensa society meeting is enough to
make about half of us voters snicker.

Somehow, I suspect I'm much more likely to encounter the President at a
Mensa
meeting, than I am to encounter you.

Figures you'd try to work in that you are a Mensa member. And figures you'd
insult Nate again.

I hope everyone notices that Nate did NOT insult you.

I, on the other hand, call you a pretentious wunnabe elitist who can't
reason worth a ****. Both your intellect and your character are decidedly
unimpressive.

Jeff Harper
Tampa, FL

I don't care if you are a janitor or a solid state physicist: the
idea of Bush chimping around at a Mensa society meeting is enough to
make about half of us voters snicker.

Why would he bother? Mensa is nothing but a puzzle solving club.

Actually, it's nothing of the sort.

"Mensa has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human
intelligence
for the benefit of humanity, to encourage research in the nature,
characteristics and uses of intelligence, and to promote stimulating
intellectual and social opportunities for its members. "

http://www.mensa.org/info.php


Mostly pretentious, self-important elitists who associate primarily to
reassure each other that they are special. (Of course, to people like
Miller it necessarily follows that non-members are less special--inferior.
He has said he has the "right" to insult their intelligence.)

You've confirmed my suspicion that you are merely regurgitating right-wing
neo-con propaganda.

Your accusations clearly fall into the categories I already described.

And your questions presuppose falsities. I could spend 30 minutes revealing
the flaws, but what would be the point? You wouldn't absorb what I said.
You'd just start foaming at the mouth and furiously tap out some other
twisted reply. And I imagine only one or two others would read the
subthread.





"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:18:37 -0400, Jeff Harper
wrote:
Do you collect right-wing talk show propaganda? Falsehoods,
half-truths,
out of context statements, inaccurate paraphrasing, deliberate
mischaracterization, outright lies.

Which specific claims that I have made (that you top-posted your response
to - smooth move there) do you disagree with? Here, I'll do all the
scrolling
for you and go get 'em...

I'm more interested in
knowing why Kerry claims to care about terrorism and stuff, when he
missed
75%+ of the senate intelligence committee meetings that it was his job
to
be at.

Are you saying he didn't miss those meetings, or are you saying it wasn't
his job to attend committee meetings for a committee he was on?

I'm more interested in why he brought up his Vietnam service when
there are _so_ many questions about his actions during, and after, the
war.

Are you saying his war record isn't questionable (he admitted to war
crimes, specifically using a .50 BMG against civilians)? Are you saying
that his post-service activities aren't questionable? Throwing (someone
else's) medals over the fence and all that?

I'm more interested in why he said, then didn't say, that he had
a "Chinese Assault Rifle", and then says that he didn't say it, an
aide said it, and it's a Russian bolt-action rifle, and broken besides.

Are you saying that he didn't give that interview, or are you saying
that he (or his aid) got the wrong rifle, or what's your disagreement with
my statement, specifically?

I'm also interested in why he said that at the same time he was saying
that letting the "assault weapons" ban expire would help terrorists
make Americans less safe.

Are you saying he didn't make that statement in his speech to Sarah
Brady's
group, or are you saying that a flash surpressor and bayonet lug actually
do
help terrorists make American's lives less safe? If "yes" to the latter,
are you serious in proposing that terrorists are buying semi-automatic
rifles, legally, on the USA'n market, rather than say the full-auto
versions
they have countries full of?

If he had a message, stuck to it, and didn't pull slicky-boy tricks
like the last Democrat who was in that office, he might get more
respect.
But, he's too similar, too soon after Clinton, and that taste is still
in peoples' mouths.

...and finally, are you disagreeing that Kerry lies when it's convenient,
and when caught he weasels around (oh, it's a Russian broken bolt gun,
not a Chinese assault rifle)?

Please respond with specifics to these questions rather than your usual
personal attacks and vague language. If I just see more of the same, then
it's pretty simple to discount anything at all you have to say as the
ramblings of a light-weight parrot who can't discuss actual issues. Just
like Kerry.

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
news:1096600599./6S22xZO0HqBi9466ad0MA@teranews...
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:20:00 -0400, "Jeff Harper"
wrote:


"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
news:1096428568.Qyc8CA9AZuG2uqznYbqRvQ@teranews.. .

..Educated opinion of a professional can apply
equally well to the stated opinion of a tarot card reader

Dolt.


Well, if you insist, yes, we could also apply the statement equally well
to your opinions.


"Insist"? That doesn't make much sense.

I never claimed the opinion of a PhD on the subject of his degree was
equivolent to the opinion of psychic.

You did, dolt.

Call me a troll if you want, but my posts have all been on the subject of
the thread or on the content and reasoning of the posts within the thread.
I think you just don't like being called on your stupidity and inaccuracy.
And you don't like being treated with the same contempt you show toward
those with whom you disagree.

In article , "Jeff Harper" wrote:
If you're going to make fun of Bush's SAT scores, then you should post
your
own.

That probably makes sense to you, doesn't it? Moron.

Bush's intellect is relevant to all of us. Nate's is not.

Criticism of anyone's intellect is unseemly, coming from that person's
inferiors....

Uh huh. Do you recognize, now that it's been pointed out to you, how
fallacious your above argument is? The notion that Nate should post his
scores if he's going to question Bush's.

Are you capable of recognizing and admitting it?

There's no fallacy there at all: if you're going to call somebody stupid, you
should at least be smarter than he is -- otherwise where does that leave you?

It's too bad you couldn't figure that out for yourself without my help.

Do you need me to draw you pictures?

.. speaking of which....

What are *your* SAT and IQ scores, ****-for-brains?

1450 total: 660 verbal, 790 math. Last real IQ test I took, about 20 years
ago, had me somewhere in the 150s. The online test at tickle.com showed me
at
144 this June. No idea how accurate that one is, or whether it's been
properly
normed.

What were *your* SAT scores?

For what it's worth: I was born in July 1958. I received my Bachelor of
Science degree in May 1978 [Computer science, Butler University,
Indianapolis
IN], at age 19 years 321 days. I looked young for my age, too. It was a
*bitch* finding a job -- some interviewers didn't believe I was really a
college grad. :-)

If you do say so your own self?

Look me up next time you're in Indianapolis. I'll be happy to show you my
diploma.

By the way, I went to eleven public schools before I dropped out of high
school and joined the army. I got a GED and got into college on academic
probation.

Isn't that interesting. I've never been called "****-for-brains" by a high
school dropout before. Guess there's a first time for everything.

My interest was learning, not grades,

Uh-huh. That explains dropping out, I'm sure. Somehow.

yet I ended up graduating
first in my class of several thousand..had a cum. g.p.a. of 4.0..yada yada
yada. So, I'm not particularly wowed by your academic background.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Right. What college? What year? What degree?


And I have some doubt about your accuracy--especially the IQ. Based on the
evidence you've exhibited in this thread.

In contrast to the brilliance you've exhibited? Spare me.


I can tell from your
posts and the way you resort to ad hominem fallacies rather than argue on
merit that you are none too bright.

Oh, this is rich. You call me "moron" and "****-for-brains", you called
someone else a "****ing moron" -- and then *you* accuse *me* of ad
hominems.

Yeah, I insult you. (I'm tired of taking **** politely on here.) But my
arguments, most of 'em anyway, stand on their own and don't rely on ad
hominems. Unlike yours.


Go play somewhere else, troll.

LOL. Again an example of poor reasoning. This was a political thread.
I've discussed/argued the subject.

No, you haven't. The majority of your posts have consisted of little more than
abuse of those who disagree with you -- a sure sign of limited intelligence,
and even more limited debating ability.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

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