I've been using power tools for a while now and while they're great
for accuracy, saving time, etc., I find I'd still like to try using
hand tools more often, especially planes. So here are my questions:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

TIA for the help.

Here is a place to start looking. Steve Knight often contributes to the
group and hand builds each of his planes. I am sure he would be glad to
answer your questions with good answers.

http://www.knight-toolworks.com/


"Ben" wrote in message
om...
I've been using power tools for a while now and while they're great
for accuracy, saving time, etc., I find I'd still like to try using
hand tools more often, especially planes. So here are my questions:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

TIA for the help.

Here is a place to start looking. Steve Knight often contributes to the
group and hand builds each of his planes. I am sure he would be glad to
answer your questions with good answers.

http://www.knight-toolworks.com/


"Ben" wrote in message
om...
I've been using power tools for a while now and while they're great
for accuracy, saving time, etc., I find I'd still like to try using
hand tools more often, especially planes. So here are my questions:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

TIA for the help.

(Ben) wrote in
om:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?

This question is analogous to asking which of your children is your
favorite.

Only four? What of the other twenty or so?

And does that preclude new additions?

Patriarch

These, however, I use more frequently than the others:
Lie Nielsen Adjustable mouth block plane
1920's vintage Stanley #3
1960's vintage Stanley #6
Lee Valley (Veritas) Low Angle Apron plane

(Ben) wrote in
om:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?

This question is analogous to asking which of your children is your
favorite.

Only four? What of the other twenty or so?

And does that preclude new additions?

Patriarch

These, however, I use more frequently than the others:
Lie Nielsen Adjustable mouth block plane
1920's vintage Stanley #3
1960's vintage Stanley #6
Lee Valley (Veritas) Low Angle Apron plane

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 03:16:42 GMT, patriarch
wrote:

(Ben) wrote in
. com:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?

This question is analogous to asking which of your children is your
favorite.

Only four? What of the other twenty or so?


So, how many kids do you have? Lose count above 20? ;-)

And does that preclude new additions?


... and you want more?

Patriarch

... snip

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 03:16:42 GMT, patriarch
wrote:

(Ben) wrote in
. com:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?

This question is analogous to asking which of your children is your
favorite.

Only four? What of the other twenty or so?


So, how many kids do you have? Lose count above 20? ;-)

And does that preclude new additions?


... and you want more?

Patriarch

... snip

On 25 Sep 2004 19:25:00 -0700, (Ben) wrote:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be?

Just three.

A block plane. The Lee Valley low-angle block plane. Best there is.

A bench plane - Stanley #5, either an old one off eBay and tuned up,
or else a brand new Lee Valley equivalent. Not a #4 - the length of
the #5 is more useful.

A smoother - Stanley #4 1/2 (eBay again), Lee Valley, or maybe one of
Steve Knight's. The width of the #4 1/2 is useful compared to the #4.

If you really want a 4th, go for a #80 scraper. If you're rich, a #112
scraper plane. Lee Valley again, maybe Lie Nielsen, but not an old
Stanley.


A #92 is a tiny rebate plane, good for cleaning cross-grain dados, or
for cleaning up edge mouldings. The slightly larger #78 rebate plane
is handy for some work too - much better for rebates, because it
doesn't jam with chips.

One of the best resources around on tuning planes is Jeff Gorman's
site:
http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingp...g/fettling.htm

IMHO, "tuning" a Stanley bench plane involves throwing the iron away
and fitting either a Samurai iron, or a Clifton iron on a big plane.
Others have their favourite brands, but I'd avoid Hock for beginners
because they need a lot of sharpening work before they're ready for
use - they're also an ugly shape with protruding corners.

The big list of Stanley variants is over here
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm
Great reading, but you do _not_ need many planes !


Don't buy a #4. They grow on trees - pretty soon you'll have a dozen
and be wondering what to do with them.

Don't buy a modern plane from a "big" maker. Manufacturing quality is
rubbish.

If buying old Stanleys, anything from between the wars will work for
you. Let the collectors fight over the weird variants - you don't need
them as a user.

You really _don't_ need many planes. Have a handful of good ones, not
a shelfload that either don't work right, or that you never use.

The Stanley Bailey adjuster is basically rubbish. Almost all the
alternatives (Norris, Lee Valley, Calvert Stevens, even GTL) are a big
improvement.

If you think Stanley bench planes are sloppy rubbish, you should see
the block planes. You can make their old bench planes work, but most
of the blocks are beyond hope! (buy that Lee Valley)

Avoid woodies, except for Steve Knight. Not because his planes are
better, but because he ships them sharp and ready adjusted. He's one
of very few planemakers where you can lift it out of the box and
actually use it straightaway. As woodies _are_ a little awkward to
set up right, they can be frustrating to beginners. Easy to use
though, once they're right.

For adjusting woodies, ask again for advice (there's an old FWW
article on Japanese planes that's good, if you can find it). Don't
just wale away on a woodie, or you'll dent it.


Today I am mostly killing woodworm in a crateload of old English
moulding planes....

--
Smert' spamionam

Mark & Juanita wrote in
news:1096171911.iOlb2BJbMGk7+eFUcJXzRQ@teranews:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 03:16:42 GMT, patriarch
wrote:

(Ben) wrote in
.com:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?

This question is analogous to asking which of your children is your
favorite.

Only four? What of the other twenty or so?


So, how many kids do you have? Lose count above 20? ;-)

And does that preclude new additions?


... and you want more?

Patriarch

.. snip


on re-reading, I guess that COULD be easily misunderstood. ;-)

Ben did say:

I've been using power tools for a while now and while they're great
for accuracy, saving time, etc., I find I'd still like to try using
hand tools more often, especially planes. So here are my questions:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

TIA for the help.

You're going to get a lot of "it depends" answers - here's another:
Generally, the modern metal bodied planes are easier to use than wooden
planes, but I find it more pleasurable to work with wooden planes. (with exceptions)
My favorite "do everything" plane that works well on every wood I've tried
regardless of figure is a Knight Toolworks infill plane. I've got the
serial # 1 infill. (a little drive-by for your gloat reading pleasure)

A couple of knight medium woodies with different angles handle most other
duties.
A knight small smooth plane for the little stuff. (seeing a pattern?)
When I want to remove lots of wood in a hurry, I've got a L-N scrub plane.
It's a pleasure to use, but I do really need to get a wooden scrub...

A jointer plane of some sort is a necessity. I've got an old #7, and a
japanese style wooden jointer for that. This is one size that I prefer the
metal plane over the wooden one.

At some point you're going to want a plane that will shave it's full
width, a rabbet plane in one of its variations for rabbets and shoulders.
(better yet, one of each. It gets kind of addictive after a while)

I'm kind of rambling here... back to your 4 planes. If limited to 4, I'd
choose a low angle block plane, a rabbet plane, a medium sized bench plane
(perhaps a #4 1/2 size), and a jointer plane. There. Now I pray to the
woodworking gods that I never have to actually make that decision. I'd be
paralyzed for months trying to find the right four. And I'll never give up
my infill, so I can't possibly do with just four!

As for learning to use and maintain them, you could do a lot worse than
Taunton's Handplanes in the Woodshop video. Watching the techniques used
is far better than reading about it. If you have access to an experienced
local woodworker who's willing to spend some time with you, that's even
better. By the way, I have yet to talk to a woodworker that wouldn't be
happy to spend some time passing along their knowledge to another. They're
a very friendly bunch as a whole, so don't be shy about asking someone.

Russ

I'm a newbie myself (2 years) but have picked up some ideas along the
way...

First, a professional cabinet maker and instructor (at the Peter Korn
school and Anderson ranch) told me that only two planes are needed:
the Lie-Nielson (LN) adjustable mouth block plane and the LN #five and
a half which is a compromise between a "baby jointer" and a big
smoother.

Many others have told me that you should get planes in this order....
block plane
#4 bench
smoother
jointer

If you're planning to take wood from the rough to finish, a scrub
plane is good. Some folks think a scraper is important but I use the
Lee Valley Veritas (LV) hand scraper. Beside the plane scrapers are
reputed to be tricky to use - I don't know.

All that said, I've found many occasion to use a shoulder plane
(Veritas Lee Valley medium) and a LN chisel plane.

A friend of mine bought the Steve Knight coffin smoother and raves
about it so I just ordered one. (It should arrive next week - whoopi!)
He claims there's nothing that beats the feel of wood on wood. Steve
was such a pleasure to work with and willing to deviate from the woods
on his web page to provide me with what I think will be a piece of
art, that I also bought one of his razee style jointer planes.

However, LN and LV and also good to work with but they are more
pricey, especially LN. But .... LN is usually considered the benchmark
to beat.

Here's what I have currently:
LN adjustable mounth block plane - I use this one more than any other,
usually after I've built something and need to shave a littel here or
there....

LV medium shoulder plane - Also used frequently to clean tenons.

Steve Knight coffin smoother - should arrive soon but based on the
direction I'm headed, will be used a lot (instead of sand paper -
dust, noise, etc).

LN #4.5 - beautiful plane. I haven't used it much. However as I have
improved as a woodworker (and I have a long long way to go), I've
began using is more.

LN small chisel plane - lot's of folks said I'd _not_ use this one
much but I do. Sometimes I have large tenons which need cleaning. I go
in from the end with the block plane and then finish up to the
sholders with the chisel plane.

Steve Knight Jointer plane - since I have a powermatic 6# jointer, I'm
not sure whether I'll use this one. It would sure be quieter and
produce less dust though. Steve sent me pictures of the coffin
smoother he's building and made me a great deal on a matching jointer.
I couldn't refuse. Bloodwood with hard maple.

Next:
Oh, maybe the LN #5.5 as the "pro" mentioned above. Or the LN skew
angle block plane. A spoke shave may be in my future, too.

Lastly, let me say that there's lot's of people that do good work w/o
a single plane. There's lot's of people that eschew power tools. I
have found (and some of the books advise) a blending of the two. Going
into hand tools is sometimes referred to as the "slippery slope".
That's true. They have charm as pieces to collect and they have
utility as tools and they are fun to use...to a point.

There are many plane makers but I've discoverd that Steve Knight, LV,
and LN can meet all my plane lusts. The other manufactures don't seem
to have the same plane sex appeal (with the possible exception of
ECE). I also like buying American when I can. The Canadians (LV) are
also nice.

BTW, I recently posted "What Plane Next" and some of the replies were
quite good. Do an advanced search in rec.woodworking with the author
Never Enough Money.

(Ben) wrote in message . com...
I've been using power tools for a while now and while they're great
for accuracy, saving time, etc., I find I'd still like to try using
hand tools more often, especially planes. So here are my questions:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

TIA for the help.

Oh, I forgot to mention -- lot's of my friends swear by the low angle
jack. LV sells a good one at a good price. For some reason, I
personally have never been interested in it -- I guess it's because
I've been told it's great for beginners (who tend to tear out the
wood). Although I AM A BEGINNER, I don't want to admit it -- denial I
guess...go for the real man's planes and all that stuff....


(Ben) wrote in message . com...
I've been using power tools for a while now and while they're great
for accuracy, saving time, etc., I find I'd still like to try using
hand tools more often, especially planes. So here are my questions:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

TIA for the help.

Would you and or could you post the pics of your yet to arrive Steve Knight
planes? ;~)

"Leon" wrote in message . com...
Here is a place to start looking. Steve Knight often contributes to the
group and hand builds each of his planes. I am sure he would be glad to
answer your questions with good answers.

http://www.knight-toolworks.com/

[snip]

I have found Steve Knight, "Ted" at Lie-Nielson, and the folks at Lee
Valley all to be exceptionally honest and not wanting to steer you
wrong just to make a sale.

Start with a bog standard 4 or 4 1/2 which is what I use, then see what
comes up cheap/free in need of TLC, got a 5 and 4 that way, and drew a
bead on a 6 last week, if the old bugger will let it go....It might be
covered in fine red but it will clean up just dandy for a user.

1. Low-angle adjustable mouth block - either Lie-Nielsen or Veritas.

2. Lie-Nielsen 4.5 smoother.

3. Lie-Nielsen jointer or fore plane (#6 or #7).

4. Lie-Nielsen rabbetting block plane.

then, you'll discover you want/need others:

- low-angle jack plane
- shoulder plane(s)
- scrub plane
- more bench planes
- specialty molding planes

To find out information about tuning them and using them, a great source is
Lee Valley's website (look at a plane and then click on the info link and
you get a lot of great info) and Lie-Nielsen's website (look for a Use &
Care link).

A few others I have found invaluable:

http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/index.html
http://www.yesterdaystools.com/tuninga1.htm
http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/...lanetune.shtml
and by far the most comprehensive and helpful
http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingp...planeindex.htm

Good luck and have fun!

Mike

Also do a search in rec.woodworking. I found " small sets of hand
planes (lists of 2, 5, and 8 planes)" by Lyn J. Mangiameli to be a
good.


[snip]

Never Enough Money wrote:
Also do a search in rec.woodworking. I found " small sets of hand
planes (lists of 2, 5, and 8 planes)" by Lyn J. Mangiameli

Good thread!

Here's a google cache:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e....earthlink.net

BugBear

Bugbear posts:

Never Enough Money wrote:
Also do a search in rec.woodworking. I found " small sets of hand
planes (lists of 2, 5, and 8 planes)" by Lyn J. Mangiameli

Good thread!

Here's a google cache:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...&safe=off&thre
adm=mNlh6.700%240m5.84551%40newsread1.prod.itd.ear thlink.net&rnum=1&prev=/
groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26c2coff%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3Dm
Nlh6.700%25240m5.84551%2540n
ewsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net

It's excellent, but let's not forget the date on the thread whenyou start
considering shoulder planes. Veritas's shoulder planes weren't even all the way
on the drawing board, so to speak, at that time, but exist now in several
varieties. And that is not to knock the Lie-Nielsen models that are truly
excellent, just to offer another choice (and to keep adding to the confusion,
of course).

Charlie Self
"Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for
President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal

(Ben) wrote in news:581ee38e.0409251825.621fa5a2
@posting.google.com:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

1 - a good block plane. In my experience, used (i.e. vintage Stanley)
block planes are pretty well used up, so I'd suggest a new Lie-Nielsen
or Lee Valley plane.

2 - a jack plane (#5). Lie-Nielsen if you have plenty of money, other
wise an older Stanley.

These two are useful for trimming & adjusting even if you decide to
stick with primarily power tool woodworking.

Beyond that, it sort of depends where you want to focus first. For
finish work, the third & fourth would probably be a smoother (#3 or
#4 size) and a scraping plane (like the L-N #112). Alternatively, if
you wanted to focus on casework, etc, then you'd probably make a
jointer (#7 or #8) and a shoulder plane the next two.

John

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

My first response is the usual "if you could only have 4, which 20
would you pick" since planes are like eating crackerjack, the more you
have the more you want. But it is a good question. I think the
answer depends on how you intend to use them - are you heading towards
being a neander (mainly depending on hand tools), or as a complement
to machine woodworking - or something else such as boat building (I do
a lot of work on small boats).

The advice about the first plane being a low angle block plane is
excellent - I like the older Stanley 60 1/2 block plane with the
nickel plated cap - but be careful because it is important that the
adjuctable mouth work properly. I have found a lot of these where
someone has buggered up the adjustable insert (using a wire wheel,
swaping parts, etc.) and it is impossible to get the sole flat. The
ones with the knuckle joint cap are nice too - and the older Craftsman
and Millers Falls planes can be just fine. I must have a dozen of
these now, and favorites change from time to time, but this is the
essential plane.

Since I work on small boats a lot, I am very fond of the No. 3 - it is
really handy for getting out planks, etc., and just a useful all round
plane. If you have kids in the shop they really like this plane too.
But if you are more conventional woodworking I think a 4 or 4 1/2 is a
better choice - the wartime 4 1/2 with the plastic adjusting knob is
the heaviest of the lot, and can be tuned to be a wonderful smoothing
plane.

And the 5 - or even 6 Stanley seems to be the favorite plane for
getting surfaces and edges pretty flat and true. I think this might
be why there seem to be more 5 size planes around than any other -
this was the plane most craftsmen would have if they only had one
plane.

And a rabbet or sholder plane - the one I use the most is an old
Record 311, but the Stanley 92 or 93 work fine - if you do machine
work and then do the final fitting by hand then you will find yourself
using a rabbet plane a lot.

And because it is so small you might be able to sneak in a Stanley 101
- this is a little 3 1/2" very simple plane - looks almost like
something out of a kids tool set (I think they might have been) - but
pretty inexpensive (about $10 if you hunt around), and very handy for
a lot of small jobs like easing edges. I think I always have one of
these in my apron pocket - and have given a lot away to friends who
have gotten pretty attached to them.

The book on hand planes by Garret Hack has a lot of good information
in it - just be warned that once you start making nice paper thin
shavings you won't want to quit - is great therapy. Have fun whatever
you do.

Stephen

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:33:24 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

(Ben) wrote in news:581ee38e.0409251825.621fa5a2
:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

1 - a good block plane. In my experience, used (i.e. vintage Stanley)
block planes are pretty well used up, so I'd suggest a new Lie-Nielsen
or Lee Valley plane.

2 - a jack plane (#5). Lie-Nielsen if you have plenty of money, other
wise an older Stanley.

These two are useful for trimming & adjusting even if you decide to
stick with primarily power tool woodworking.


I would put a decent medium shoulder plane in front of the #5.

My own experience suggests that the shoulder plane is more often used
than and of my bench planes, as I use power tools for surfacing and
edging.

Barry

Ba r r y wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:33:24 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

(Ben) wrote in news:581ee38e.0409251825.621fa5a2
:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

1 - a good block plane. In my experience, used (i.e. vintage Stanley)
block planes are pretty well used up, so I'd suggest a new Lie-Nielsen
or Lee Valley plane.

2 - a jack plane (#5). Lie-Nielsen if you have plenty of money, other
wise an older Stanley.

These two are useful for trimming & adjusting even if you decide to
stick with primarily power tool woodworking.


I would put a decent medium shoulder plane in front of the #5.

My own experience suggests that the shoulder plane is more often used
than and of my bench planes, as I use power tools for surfacing and
edging.

Barry

I find it interesting that no one has thought to ask the OP what sort
of woodworking he will be doing. So, Ben, what'll it be--cabinet
work, something with a lot of M&T joints, only Windsor chairs? Or
maybe you, too, are a well-rounded individual and plan on doing a
little of the lot? Your choice of planes would depend to some extent
on what you want to do.

I have a bunch of old Stanleys, and keep getting more. Haven't sprung
for the new high priced stuff. But I'm kinda cheap.

Dan

Dan

On 27 Sep 2004 20:46:02 -0700, (Dan Cullimore)
wrote:

I find it interesting that no one has thought to ask the OP what sort
of woodworking he will be doing.

For just three or four planes, it doesn't matter.

Five or six start to make a difference.

Skimmed the posts in reply to your query, and while we all know why we
like the LN, Veritas, Knight, etc, (e.g., they are a pleasure to use,
well made, etc.) and we all know too that they will also cost you a
whole bunch of money. Now, that may not be an issue for you (and
frankly, is spending $1000 on 3 or 4 LN planes going to ruin my
finances, naw, not really, and they are so, so beautiful) but if
you're just starting out, IMHO there's nothing wrong with a few good,
tuned, pre-or just-post WWII Stanley planes. I have some pre-war
Millers Falls as well. They are staples in my shop, and are widely
available at fleas, garage sales (I've never paid more than $30 for
any plane, and that was my two #6s and a #7) (ebay as well, but
sometimes the prices there get a bit too crazy) and if you google for
tune up advice its out there (also a recent FWW article on block
planes), and frankly, they do the job more than most (90%) of the time
and give you the experience to know what specialized or otherwise
special (e.g., LN low angle, Knight smoother etc.) you really
need/want/lust after for your work. Personally, my most often used
planes are #5, #4, #78, #79, #90, a #101 (yes, really, a 101 looks
like a toy but is it ever useful, at least to me), a #9 1/2 and a #60
1/2. But it depends on what you do.

Go to Patrick's Blood and Go
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm for photos and
descriptions of these planes.

So, to answer your question while limiting myself to 4 planes, and
depending on the work you do:

Bench planes: a #5 and a #4 or #4 1/2, (or a #6 or #7 for jointing of
you need that functionality in what you do, I prefer the #6 over a #7,
but that's just me);

Block planes: Go with the low angle #60 1/2, (but pick up a #9 1/2 as
well if you find one cheap).

Specialty: a #90, simply because I use it so often.

Now, other useful planes are a #71, a #3 smoother (I must admit, only
use it every once in a while), the #79 is really handy and the
aforementioned 101, which you can find for $5 'cause folks think its a
toy. Don't forget spokeshaves, they come in handy as well, and a #90
scraper, for which vintage (e.g., sweetheart shmeethart, a new english
made one works just as well IMHO) does not matter, its more important
how you prepare the blade. By all means, resist the lustful fantasy
temptation of a #45, all I use it for is beading, otherwise it's
brought me nothing but disappointment and heartache....(but I got it
at a tag sale for $25, so not a whole lot lost).

Other folks point out that blade replacement is important, and again,
yes they do work better and stay sharp longer without doubt, but with
a little practice sharpening comes easy and the older blades with some
life left in them work just fine except in some nasty figured grain,
and that's why we buy a Hock. Good luck. Mutt




(Ben) wrote in message . com...
I've been using power tools for a while now and while they're great
for accuracy, saving time, etc., I find I'd still like to try using
hand tools more often, especially planes. So here are my questions:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

TIA for the help.

(Dan Cullimore) wrote in message om...
Ba r r y wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:33:24 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

(Ben) wrote in news:581ee38e.0409251825.621fa5a2
:

If you could only have four planes, which would they be? What brand?
Where would I go to find the best information in tuning and using them
(besides here)?

1 - a good block plane. In my experience, used (i.e. vintage Stanley)
block planes are pretty well used up, so I'd suggest a new Lie-Nielsen
or Lee Valley plane.

2 - a jack plane (#5). Lie-Nielsen if you have plenty of money, other
wise an older Stanley.

These two are useful for trimming & adjusting even if you decide to
stick with primarily power tool woodworking.


I would put a decent medium shoulder plane in front of the #5.

My own experience suggests that the shoulder plane is more often used
than and of my bench planes, as I use power tools for surfacing and
edging.

Barry

I find it interesting that no one has thought to ask the OP what sort
of woodworking he will be doing. So, Ben, what'll it be--cabinet
work, something with a lot of M&T joints, only Windsor chairs? Or
maybe you, too, are a well-rounded individual and plan on doing a
little of the lot? Your choice of planes would depend to some extent
on what you want to do.

I have a bunch of old Stanleys, and keep getting more. Haven't sprung
for the new high priced stuff. But I'm kinda cheap.

Dan

Dan


First of all, thanks to everyone for all the responses. Lots of good
info here, and I think I'm beginning to detect a pattern in the
responses, enough so that I'm getting a much better picture of where
to start.

The best question so far--and the info I should have included in my
original post--was what I intend to do. Basically, I try to build
furniture--the closer to Shaker or early American (Colonial?) style I
can get, the better, though I do venture off and build clocks and
boxes and shelves on occasion.

So what do I envision for me using planes? Well, I'd like to use
planes to smooth as much of a surface prior to sanding as possible
(what I'd *really* like to do is eliminate sanding as much as I can).
I don't think I'll be hogging out rough material in the near future,
though I see that as a potential.

Obviously, I'd want to trim slightly mismatched edges, dovetails, etc.
I'd also like to joint boards prior to glue-up. Down the road, I see
myself using planes for rabbets.

After several years of being a Normite, I find I'm drawn to the
Neanderthal side more and more. Maybe it's because I'm aging and am
getting at least as much process-oriented as goal-oriented. Maybe
it's because I like the idea of a challenge and therapy wrapped up in
one practice. Whatever. I should note that I'm going to be taking a
class in NH on doing handmade dovetails.

So if I interpret the responses correctly--and don't hesitate to
correct me if you think I'm going astray--my first four plane
purchases should be:

1. Lee Valley low angle block plane
2. Lee Valley #5.25 bench plane
3. Lee Valley #4.5 smoothing plane
4. Lee Valley #6 foreplane (for jointing)

I realize Lee Valley wasn't specifically designated, but it was
recommended several times, and I liked the looks and prices when I
checked the website.

Is there a significant different between a bench plane and a smoothing
plane, or can I buy either and substitute another plane, such as a
rabbeting plane or an apron plane?

And why only four? Because that's all my Xmas bonus will allow.
This time.

I know this is somewhat long-winded, so thanks for bearing with me.

On 28 Sep 2004 07:30:10 -0700, (Ben) wrote:

1. Lee Valley low angle block plane
2. Lee Valley #5.25 bench plane
3. Lee Valley #4.5 smoothing plane
4. Lee Valley #6 foreplane (for jointing)

Seems reasonable.

I'd leave the #6 though. It's not all _that_ useful and I'd either
hold back (if money is tight) or go for a #7.

I use a #6 more than a #7, and I very rarely use my #8, but that's
because I have the _choice_. If I only had one, it would have to be
the #7. The #6 is great, lighter to handle and perfectly big enough
to make a clock case, but you're going to look a bit silly taking it
to a large cabinet.

Is there a significant different between a bench plane and a smoothing
plane,

Not in the box, but there is in how you tune them. The iron might be
different (more crowning on a bench plane) and the smoother will be
set with a smaller mouth.

With the bunch you describe, you'll probably set up the 4 1/2 as a
smoother and the #5 as a bench plane,

can I buy either and substitute another plane, such as a
rabbeting plane or an apron plane?

I'd avoid the LV apron plane. I'm sure it's lovely, but spend the
extra and get the adjustable mouth version.

A rebate plane is always useful, either for rebates or just for
getting into a corner. The #92 isn't a great shoulder plane, but
they're cheap and common enough that you should be able to squeeze one
in.

--
Smert' spamionam

Hello Ben, you say you are interested in eliminating sanding as much as possible,
you'll need scraping planes as well: http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp
And some Veritas planes are basically the same price as Lie-Nielson planes,
these are works of art in heavier bronze: http://www.lie-nielsen.com/ Veritas is
the better deal for the 112 scraper. Scrapers do the job of sanding.

Your choices numbered:

1. Lee Valley low angle block plane

My plan, or an old good condition Stanley 60 1/2 (more likely)

2. Lee Valley #5.25 bench plane

I suggest a 5 1/2 because the 5 1/4 and the 4 1/2 are too close in size.

3. Lee Valley #4.5 smoothing plane

Excellent choice

4. Lee Valley #6 foreplane (for jointing)

Too close to the 5 1/2, go with a 7 or 8.


Alex
"Inexperienced, but, studying my ass off on what to get"

Hello Andy! I've just been fettling my metals! Getting into it for the first time.

Alex

"AAvK" wrote in message

Hello Andy! I've just been fettling my metals! Getting into it for the
first time.

Careful now, that can cause you to grow hair on the back of your knuckles,
or go blind.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

Careful now, that can cause you to grow hair on the back of your knuckles,
or go blind.


No doubt, and YOU would probably a better President, genius.
Alex

On 28 Sep 2004 07:30:10 -0700, (Ben) wrote:

So if I interpret the responses correctly--and don't hesitate to
correct me if you think I'm going astray--my first four plane
purchases should be:

1. Lee Valley low angle block plane
2. Lee Valley #5.25 bench plane
3. Lee Valley #4.5 smoothing plane
4. Lee Valley #6 foreplane (for jointing)

This adds up to almost $700. Don't forget you need to sharpen those
blades. If you go the scary sharp route you can skip the stones, but
you'll still want the Veritas sharpening system by itself at another
$35 and you'll need some plate glass or other flat surface to sharpen
on.

And do you have a good bench to use them on?

Is there a significant different between a bench plane and a smoothing
plane

A #5 can be used as a smoother, but you have to adjust it back and
forth for the different uses. When you get it tuned to get fine
shavings as a smoother you don't want to have to open it back up to
take rougher cuts. It's better to have both.

And why only four? Because that's all my Xmas bonus will allow.
This time.

I would suggest you could get more bang for your budget by including
some old stanleys. While you can get better deals in other places
I'll assume you'll exert the minimum effort and just cruise ebay for a
week or two. Keep in mind there are two places on ebay to find
planes, one under home & garden and one under collectibles.
Collectibles has a lot more volume, and usually they are listed under
both, but sometimes not. #4s, #5s, and #6s in good shape can be had
for very good prices, $25 for a #5 and maybe $40 for a #6. A #7 will
run you more like $75. There is no shortage of these guys on there so
try to find one close to you to save on unnecessary shipping costs,
and don't get carried away bidding.

I would go more like this:

Veritas Low-Angle Block Plane
Veritas #4-1/2 Smoothing Plane
Veritas Medium Shoulder Plane
Stanley #5 off ebay
Stanley #6 off ebay

Your smoother is the one that needs the most tuning to work right so I
think it makes sense to put some money towards it, and you'll have a
reference for how your ebay planes should be performing. And you're
still $200 under your original cost, which you could put towards a
bench (good vises are *not* cheap), substitute a #7 for the #6, add
another specialized plane or two, or that other essential element
you'll want to have a lot of around when your planes arrive - wood.


-Leuf

(Ben) wrote in
om:
snip

So if I interpret the responses correctly--and don't hesitate to
correct me if you think I'm going astray--my first four plane
purchases should be:

1. Lee Valley low angle block plane
2. Lee Valley #5.25 bench plane
3. Lee Valley #4.5 smoothing plane
4. Lee Valley #6 foreplane (for jointing)

#1 is a good choice. These are nice planes. I have one, but find I reach
for the LN first. It's slightly narrower, and fits my hand better. But
the LV is top drawer.

#2 is also a nice plane. This was the first LV plane I bought. There's a
lot of overlap, however, between how this one gets used, and how the #6
gets used in my shop. I use the #6 much more often. And quite often,
where the 5.25 is used, a well-tuned old Stanley #4 does just fine.

#3 represents new territory for me. I just bought an old 4.5 Stanley from
the fellow who runs Blood & Gore. News at 11.

#4 is a good choice, in my experience.

What would I change? I'd swap the 5.25 for the LV low angle smoother, and
_maybe_ add the high angle blade. Keeps all of the planes of the same
manufacturer, if that means anything, and buys just a bit more versatility
with wild-grained woods.

Enjoy your new tools!

Patriarch

(Ben) wrote in
om:

1. Lee Valley low angle block plane
2. Lee Valley #5.25 bench plane
3. Lee Valley #4.5 smoothing plane
4. Lee Valley #6 foreplane (for jointing)

Well, just to throw my 2 cents in (again), but I agree with Andy that
a #7 size plane would be better for general jointing than the #6 (like
Andy I have #s 6, 7, and 8 - the first is a Union and the others are
old Stanleys - but I use the #7 almost exclusively...I'm not even
sure where the #8 is right now).

Like Leuf, I suggest looking at older "low knob" Stanleys for the
bigger planes, the jack & the jointer, since those planes are usually
in ready to use, or close to it, condition (unlike vintage smoothers,
which often need more tuning). My #7 cost $35, a considerable
savings over the $220 of the LV plane, or the $450 (or whatever it
is) of a Lie-Nielsen.

If you want to minimize sanding, you'll want to look to a scraping
plane before too long. After being largely ignorant of scrapers
for a long time, I got the LN #112 not so long ago, and am very
impressed with how it works.

John

Leuf wrote:

[snip]

I would go more like this:

Veritas Low-Angle Block Plane
Veritas #4-1/2 Smoothing Plane
Veritas Medium Shoulder Plane
Stanley #5 off ebay
Stanley #6 off ebay

Your smoother is the one that needs the most tuning to work right so I
think it makes sense to put some money towards it, and you'll have a
reference for how your ebay planes should be performing. And you're
still $200 under your original cost, which you could put towards a
bench (good vises are *not* cheap), substitute a #7 for the #6, add
another specialized plane or two, or that other essential element
you'll want to have a lot of around when your planes arrive - wood.

This is the best advice given so far (and there's been plenty of
good advice) in this thread, IMHO.

You want a dedicated smoother, and that's where you want to spend
the extra cash. Old jacks, fores and jointers can be found for very
reasonable prices, and they don't require the level of tuning that a
smoother does, so I really see no need for spending the extra bucks on
them. You can always upgrade them with a Hock iron if you aren't
satisfied with the stock iron that comes with them.

I would even go so far as to suggest that you can get by with an old
#60-1/2 for your low-angle block plane, but I have watched the LV
low-angle gradually replace my #60-1/2 as my go-to block, so that would
be hypocritical of me. :-)

My philosophy of plane-buying really boils down to this: Save your
big bucks for the specialty planes where the old Stanleys would cost as
much or more than the new L-N or LV offerings. Buy Stanleys for the
more common planes that don't do such specialized duty. (Upgrade to
Hocks if desires/necessary.)


Chuck Vance

[snip]

1. Lee Valley low angle block plane -- good choice, I like the Lie-Nielson better -- the adjustable mouth one.
2. Lee Valley #5.25 bench plane
Get eithe the 5.25 or the 4.5, but not both. Substitute a Shoulder
plane. I have the Lee Valley medium and am most satisfied.
3. Lee Valley #4.5 smoothing plane -- I have a bronze LN and it's great.
4. Lee Valley #6 foreplane (for jointing) -- I never use a jointer plane so I can't help you here. I'd substitue a Steve Knight coffin smoother here.

[snip]

Leuf wrote in message . ..
On 28 Sep 2004 07:30:10 -0700, (Ben) wrote:

So if I interpret the responses correctly--and don't hesitate to
correct me if you think I'm going astray--my first four plane
purchases should be:

1. Lee Valley low angle block plane
2. Lee Valley #5.25 bench plane
3. Lee Valley #4.5 smoothing plane
4. Lee Valley #6 foreplane (for jointing)

This adds up to almost $700. Don't forget you need to sharpen those
blades. If you go the scary sharp route you can skip the stones, but
you'll still want the Veritas sharpening system by itself at another
$35 and you'll need some plate glass or other flat surface to sharpen
on.

Have all that already.


And do you have a good bench to use them on?

I have a workbench, but it would need some modifications for regular
use with planes.


Is there a significant different between a bench plane and a smoothing
plane

A #5 can be used as a smoother, but you have to adjust it back and
forth for the different uses. When you get it tuned to get fine
shavings as a smoother you don't want to have to open it back up to
take rougher cuts. It's better to have both.

And why only four? Because that's all my Xmas bonus will allow.
This time.

I would suggest you could get more bang for your budget by including
some old stanleys. While you can get better deals in other places
I'll assume you'll exert the minimum effort and just cruise ebay for a
week or two. Keep in mind there are two places on ebay to find
planes, one under home & garden and one under collectibles.
Collectibles has a lot more volume, and usually they are listed under
both, but sometimes not. #4s, #5s, and #6s in good shape can be had
for very good prices, $25 for a #5 and maybe $40 for a #6. A #7 will
run you more like $75. There is no shortage of these guys on there so
try to find one close to you to save on unnecessary shipping costs,
and don't get carried away bidding.

I would go more like this:

Veritas Low-Angle Block Plane
Veritas #4-1/2 Smoothing Plane
Veritas Medium Shoulder Plane
Stanley #5 off ebay
Stanley #6 off ebay

This makes sense. And, as it turns out, I've just had a Stanley
Bailey #5 given to me. It looks like it's in great shape, but the
iron needs sharpening. No rust to speak of, though you can tell it's
an older version.

(Ben) wrote in
om:

snip

This makes sense. And, as it turns out, I've just had a Stanley
Bailey #5 given to me. It looks like it's in great shape, but the
iron needs sharpening. No rust to speak of, though you can tell it's
an older version.


That's a good thing.