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  #81   Report Post  
Greg O
 
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:59:22 -0500, "Greg O"
calmly ranted:


"TeamCasa" wrote in message
...

If nothing helps, you may just have to watch one on the inane home
improvement tv shows.


My god! You are gonna punish me for not woodworking?!


Yes. You are hereby sentenced to watched 7 days of Changing Rooms,
Carrol Duvall, BlobVilla's Restore America, and DIYNET's wonderful
offerings such as "Woodworking."

That'll larn ya.

Ok! Fine! I am going out to the gar....shop right now and makin' some saw
dust, really I am!
Greg


  #82   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:39:51 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

Here's the ark I finished yesterday
http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/boxes/ark/


Yes, I really need a better camera 8-(

  #83   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:39:51 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

Here's the ark I finished yesterday
http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/boxes/ark/


Yes, I really need a better camera 8-(

  #84   Report Post  
Ba r r y
 
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:23:30 GMT, mac davis
wrote:


sometimes when I don't feel like actually MAKING something, I'll throw
a scrap between centers on the lathe and just make shavings... great
therapy and kind of fun..


Precisely why my shop has XM radio. G

I can pop a microbrew and do utterly silly things, like walk in
circles with the radio on, all by myself.

It fits the bill so well I'm changing a bedroom into a studio for my
wife, so SHE has her own place to do the same thing.

Barry
  #85   Report Post  
Ba r r y
 
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:23:30 GMT, mac davis
wrote:


sometimes when I don't feel like actually MAKING something, I'll throw
a scrap between centers on the lathe and just make shavings... great
therapy and kind of fun..


Precisely why my shop has XM radio. G

I can pop a microbrew and do utterly silly things, like walk in
circles with the radio on, all by myself.

It fits the bill so well I'm changing a bedroom into a studio for my
wife, so SHE has her own place to do the same thing.

Barry


  #86   Report Post  
Mark L.
 
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Andy,
Are you going to do a shoji project?

Andy Dingley wrote:



Neighbours and friends wives ! 8-(

Just google for "bathroom shoji" and "ludic potlatch"


  #87   Report Post  
Mark L.
 
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Andy,
Are you going to do a shoji project?

Andy Dingley wrote:



Neighbours and friends wives ! 8-(

Just google for "bathroom shoji" and "ludic potlatch"


  #88   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:23:33 -0500, "Greg O"
calmly ranted:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:59:22 -0500, "Greg O"
calmly ranted:


My god! You are gonna punish me for not woodworking?!


Yes. You are hereby sentenced to watched 7 days of Changing Rooms,
Carrol Duvall, BlobVilla's Restore America, and DIYNET's wonderful
offerings such as "Woodworking."

That'll larn ya.

Ok! Fine! I am going out to the gar....shop right now and makin' some saw
dust, really I am!


I had a feeling that'd scare you "straight". G'luck!


--
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
---- --Unknown

  #89   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:23:33 -0500, "Greg O"
calmly ranted:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:59:22 -0500, "Greg O"
calmly ranted:


My god! You are gonna punish me for not woodworking?!


Yes. You are hereby sentenced to watched 7 days of Changing Rooms,
Carrol Duvall, BlobVilla's Restore America, and DIYNET's wonderful
offerings such as "Woodworking."

That'll larn ya.

Ok! Fine! I am going out to the gar....shop right now and makin' some saw
dust, really I am!


I had a feeling that'd scare you "straight". G'luck!


--
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
---- --Unknown

  #90   Report Post  
jo4hn
 
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Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:39:51 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

Here's the ark I finished yesterday
http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/boxes/ark/


Yes, I really need a better camera 8-(

Exquisite. That is truly inspirational, meaning I'm probably gonna
build something like it. Is it still plagiarism if I tell you ahead of
time?
mahalo,
jo4hn


  #91   Report Post  
jo4hn
 
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Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:39:51 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

Here's the ark I finished yesterday
http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/boxes/ark/


Yes, I really need a better camera 8-(

Exquisite. That is truly inspirational, meaning I'm probably gonna
build something like it. Is it still plagiarism if I tell you ahead of
time?
mahalo,
jo4hn
  #92   Report Post  
mac davis
 
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:57:55 -0500, "Greg O"
wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .

damn... starting to feel like Dr. Phil here...
Maybe you just need to have a beer and get laid?? *lol*


Did that, a few times, in differant order. I still did not want to go out to
the shop!
Greg

I was referring to a different hobby, Greg, not a cure for shop
separation.. lol


Mac
  #93   Report Post  
mac davis
 
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 10:57:55 -0500, "Greg O"
wrote:


"mac davis" wrote in message
.. .

damn... starting to feel like Dr. Phil here...
Maybe you just need to have a beer and get laid?? *lol*


Did that, a few times, in differant order. I still did not want to go out to
the shop!
Greg

I was referring to a different hobby, Greg, not a cure for shop
separation.. lol


Mac
  #94   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 02:32:12 GMT, jo4hn wrote:

I'm probably gonna
build something like it. Is it still plagiarism if I tell you ahead of
time?


Thanks - go right ahead.

I wouldn't copy mine though - go back to original sources and copy
them, not some half-assed second generation.

Like I said, I have _no_ evidence that arks were ever built in this
half-size manner. I just made it from the timber I had and sized
accordingly. Most of the details came from the photos on the Early Oak
site, and looking at a few other period chests. No ruler or
measurement used - just a square and a pair of dividers.

I was really planning to make one from riven boards, but my froe
technique isn't good enough to split big flat boards in oak. Those are
pretty good radial boards, but they're sawn and parallel, not split
and tapered.

I _might_ sketch some drawings of it. Might do.
--
Smert' spamionam
  #95   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:03:19 GMT, "Mark L."
wrote:

Are you going to do a shoji project?


I'm weak and stupid, so at some point I might find myself relenting.

I'd be better to gnaw my own legs off first though.




  #96   Report Post  
Mark L.
 
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I am kind of fascinated with asian styles and a would like to try shoji
screens and light fixtures. I found a few sources for shoji paper. Let
em know if you do try something, maybe we can compare notes. Mark L.

Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:03:19 GMT, "Mark L."
wrote:


Are you going to do a shoji project?



I'm weak and stupid, so at some point I might find myself relenting.

I'd be better to gnaw my own legs off first though.



  #97   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:49:11 GMT, "Mark L."
wrote:

I am kind of fascinated with asian styles and a would like to try shoji
screens and light fixtures.


Have you read Toshio Odate's shoji book ?

I found a few sources for shoji paper.


I still can't find a UK source for this. I'm getting my own paper and
oiling it myself.
  #98   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
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On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:43:41 +0100, Andy Dingley
calmly ranted:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:49:11 GMT, "Mark L."
wrote:

I am kind of fascinated with asian styles and a would like to try shoji
screens and light fixtures.


Have you read Toshio Odate's shoji book ?


Jay Van Arsdale's book is great, too. I just picked up the
Odate book but haven't read it yet. I think I'll start that
tonight. I just finished Larry Niven's "Ringworld Throne"
last night.


I found a few sources for shoji paper.


I still can't find a UK source for this. I'm getting my own paper and
oiling it myself.


Oiling it?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Scattered Showers My Ass! * Insightful Advertising Copy
* --Noah * http://www.diversify.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

  #99   Report Post  
Mark L.
 
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Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:49:11 GMT, "Mark L."
wrote:


I am kind of fascinated with asian styles and a would like to try shoji
screens and light fixtures.



Have you read Toshio Odate's shoji book ?

Not yet, just finished "A Japanese touch for your home" by Koji Yagi.
It gave me a few ideas.


I found a few sources for shoji paper.



I still can't find a UK source for this. I'm getting my own paper and
oiling it myself.

How is it turning out. If it's not good enough maybe I can help by
getting some paper here and sending it over the pond to you. Let me know
how it goes.

  #100   Report Post  
Mark L.
 
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BTW, I just went to Amazon and ordered Toshio's book, a mobile base for
my DJ20 and this "Making Japanese-Style Lamps and Lanterns
by Edward R. Turner" Thanks for the heads up on Toshio's book.
Mark L.

Andy Dingley wrote:
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:49:11 GMT, "Mark L."
wrote:


I am kind of fascinated with asian styles and a would like to try shoji
screens and light fixtures.



Have you read Toshio Odate's shoji book ?


I found a few sources for shoji paper.



I still can't find a UK source for this. I'm getting my own paper and
oiling it myself.




  #101   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:07:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Oiling it?


Either oiling or waxing. Although I've no idea what I ought to be
oiling it with. I'm using modern stuff, all the hopefully
"traditional" candidates for an oil that I've tried have turned yellow
in a couple of months. I still have no idea what the real oil would
have been.

I do some paper and book conservation work too, so I already have
stacks of Japanese papers to hand. NB - It's Kozo (mulberry) paper
that's used here, or maybe Gampi for small pieces - it's never "rice
paper" !
  #102   Report Post  
Conan the Librarian
 
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Mark L. wrote:

[making shoji]


FWIW, Van Arsdale's book was the one I followed when doing a shoji
window treatment (http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/shoji.jpg). He gives
very precise set-by-step instructions, and if you follow them to the
letter, you should be OK.

Of course, on a project like that, the devil is in the details. It
was absolutely the most exacting woodworking I have ever undertaken.
Tiny m&t's and half-laps, tight tolerances, fragile wood, etc. make for
a pretty intense woodworking experience.

And the glueup was ridiculous. You need approximately five hands to
do it.

So yes ... I am encouraging you to give it a try. At least once.
:-)


Chuck Vance

  #103   Report Post  
Richard Clements
 
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I get nagged unless I start another project with out finishing the current
one. usually because I want to buy more wood, "you haven't finished the
last project you started you don't need to start another one!"

and yet she has all manner of unfinished projects, huh imagine that

Ba r r y wrote:

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:07:11 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:


"It is absolutely forbidden to start a new project until the current
project is complete."


I'm glad that works for you, I'm completely opposite.

I *like* 50 projects going on at once. G

Barry


  #104   Report Post  
Joe Gorman
 
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Andy Dingley wrote:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:07:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Oiling it?



Either oiling or waxing. Although I've no idea what I ought to be
oiling it with. I'm using modern stuff, all the hopefully
"traditional" candidates for an oil that I've tried have turned yellow
in a couple of months. I still have no idea what the real oil would
have been.

I do some paper and book conservation work too, so I already have
stacks of Japanese papers to hand. NB - It's Kozo (mulberry) paper
that's used here, or maybe Gampi for small pieces - it's never "rice
paper" !



Well, yo could start from scratch, providing you can find the raw materials.
http://www.rice-paper.com/about/makeyourown.html
This source is in Germany, might be easier for you to get.
http://www.fine-tools.com/G312153.htm
Wait, just found this one in England
http://www.anything-japanese.co.uk/Shoji.htm
Joe
  #105   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
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On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:59:10 +0100, Andy Dingley
calmly ranted:

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:07:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Oiling it?


Either oiling or waxing. Although I've no idea what I ought to be
oiling it with. I'm using modern stuff, all the hopefully
"traditional" candidates for an oil that I've tried have turned yellow
in a couple of months. I still have no idea what the real oil would
have been.


The reason I asked is because I hadn't heard of oiling it.


I do some paper and book conservation work too, so I already have
stacks of Japanese papers to hand. NB - It's Kozo (mulberry) paper
that's used here, or maybe Gampi for small pieces - it's never "rice
paper" !


Can you recommend any good books on bookbinding? I asked the
local library and they didn't know. That really surprised me.
I fixed one broken back with a silly application of Shoe Goop,
but that was for a workbook, not a valuable item. I have some
old Harvard Classics I'd like to firm up before sale and I
want to do them properly.

Are you doing Japanese-style bookbinding?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Scattered Showers My Ass! * Insightful Advertising Copy
* --Noah * http://www.diversify.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------



  #106   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:58:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Can you recommend any good books on bookbinding?


There's one obvious one - the Thames and Hudson "Guide to
Bookbinding", which is the standard student textbook on it.
Seems to have gone expensive though - maybe it's out of print at the
moment ?

Dover press also have a couple by Aldren Watson that are rudimentary,
but simpler to follow and far cheaper.

Most of what I do is actually repair and restoration, rather than
binding from scratch or even total rebinding. There aren't many books
on this, but the Palimpsest list at Stanford is worth reading (archive
on the web at http://palimpsest.stanford.edu)


Are you doing Japanese-style bookbinding?


No. I know nothing of it, and I don't know anyone who knows anything
about it. I collect woodblock prints, but still can't read Japanese
and don't know much about their books.
--
Smert' spamionam
  #107   Report Post  
Dave Mundt
 
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Greetings and Salutations...

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:58:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I do some paper and book conservation work too, so I already have
stacks of Japanese papers to hand. NB - It's Kozo (mulberry) paper
that's used here, or maybe Gampi for small pieces - it's never "rice
paper" !


Can you recommend any good books on bookbinding? I asked the
local library and they didn't know. That really surprised me.
I fixed one broken back with a silly application of Shoe Goop,
but that was for a workbook, not a valuable item. I have some
old Harvard Classics I'd like to firm up before sale and I
want to do them properly.

Well, for what it is worth, one of MY favorite books
on the subject is Edith Diehl's "Bookbinding, Its Background and
Technique". It is available from Dover Books for not TOO much
money, and, is a pretty useful and comprehensive text. Kind
of dense...but...a LOT of info.
here is one source...
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=1-0486240207-3;;slnc=1
And of course...Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0878172556/002-3910052-1034435?v=glance
Regards
Dave Mundt

  #108   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
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On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:06:14 +0100, Andy Dingley
calmly ranted:

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:58:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Can you recommend any good books on bookbinding?


There's one obvious one - the Thames and Hudson "Guide to
Bookbinding", which is the standard student textbook on it.
Seems to have gone expensive though - maybe it's out of print at the
moment ?

Dover press also have a couple by Aldren Watson that are rudimentary,
but simpler to follow and far cheaper.


I've found both at the local library and ordered them.
I found a repair book as well. Cheaper still, wot?


Most of what I do is actually repair and restoration, rather than
binding from scratch or even total rebinding. There aren't many books
on this, but the Palimpsest list at Stanford is worth reading (archive
on the web at http://palimpsest.stanford.edu)


Oh, excellent!


Are you doing Japanese-style bookbinding?


No. I know nothing of it, and I don't know anyone who knows anything
about it. I collect woodblock prints, but still can't read Japanese
and don't know much about their books.


Got a gallery online yet? I'd like to see them.

I actually got out into the shop today and got the motor lined
up on the lathe. Dave Fleming had sent a long dense rod of
mahogany or teak to me and I turned it into 3 marlinspikes.

And the #6 came in. It's a corrugated bottom, my first and
last. It cleaned up fairly nicely but will need both tote
and knob to be replaced. Both had been glued back together
with gawd knows what. Bondo and spackle, I think.

I also glued some jarrah on the bottom of my Knight shoulder
plane and cut it to fit, then waxed it. The brass strips had
given up the ghost. I'm hoping the yellow glue holds better
on the ebony than the epoxy did with the brass. I cleaned it
with lacquer thinner just prior to gluing, and it appears to
be nice and tight right now.

And I got some more mortices cut in the carving bench legs
for the stiffeners. By Allah, I'll get that bench done this
year if it kills me. Buddha knows, it's taken long enough.

(No cracks about a certain bow saur, peanut gallery fans.)

--
The State always moves slowly and grudgingly towards any purpose that
accrues to society's advantage, but moves rapidly and with alacrity
towards one that accrues to its own advantage; nor does it ever move
towards social purposes on its own initiative, but only under heavy
pressure, while its motion towards anti-social purposes is self-sprung.
- Albert Jay Nock
- http://diversify.com Web Programming for curmudgeons and others. -

  #111   Report Post  
Andy Dingley
 
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On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:28:30 GMT, Rick Cook
wrote:

The other problem with traditional bookbinding texts is that the goal of
those bookbinders was to put the book together so it could be taken apart
and rebound in a couple of hundred years.


I'd disagree with that, compared to today's practice.

Craft bookbinding (i.e. no more than a handful of each title, done by
individual craftspeople not machines) today is even more of a high-end
specialisation. 100 years ago (or even 50) there was a large trade in
simply putting books together. These days craft bookbinding is pretty
rare at any level and owing to the cost of it, it's even more
restricted to just the most valuable of books. Who can pay ten times
the cost of a book to bind it, especially when it's still in print ?

One bookbinder I work with has a horror of all case binding as cheap
and shoddy work, fit only for lending libraries - all spines should be
sewn onto cords. As the books I work with when with him are typically
400 years old, he's taking a rather narrow view, but understandable.

--
Smert' spamionam
  #112   Report Post  
Rick Cook
 
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Andy Dingley wrote:

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 21:28:30 GMT, Rick Cook
wrote:

The other problem with traditional bookbinding texts is that the goal of
those bookbinders was to put the book together so it could be taken apart
and rebound in a couple of hundred years.


I'd disagree with that, compared to today's practice.

Craft bookbinding (i.e. no more than a handful of each title, done by
individual craftspeople not machines) today is even more of a high-end
specialisation. 100 years ago (or even 50) there was a large trade in
simply putting books together. These days craft bookbinding is pretty
rare at any level and owing to the cost of it, it's even more
restricted to just the most valuable of books. Who can pay ten times
the cost of a book to bind it, especially when it's still in print ?

One bookbinder I work with has a horror of all case binding as cheap
and shoddy work, fit only for lending libraries - all spines should be
sewn onto cords. As the books I work with when with him are typically
400 years old, he's taking a rather narrow view, but understandable.

--
Smert' spamionam


It depends on what you're trying to do.
If you're dealing with valuable antique books, these practices may well be
justified, but most of us aren't. Most amateur bookbinders want to produce a
good-looking binding that will wear well and that's about all.

Under those circumstances, and lacking the tools and skills of the
turn-of-the-century bookbinder, it makes sense to use more modern materials
and different methods. (I tend to agree with your friend about case bindings,
btw, but that has at least as much to do with liking the look and feel of
cord-sewn books as their greater durability.)

And there are a lot of reasons for binding books by hand besides the
conventional ones. I know someone who has carefully and lovingly rebound an
entire set cheap, perfect-bound paperbacks in signature bindings between fine
leather covers ornamented with iron reinforcements. Of course the books in
question are John Norman's Gor novels.

--RC (who bound his first book -- a cheap paperback poetry collection at 14
and still has it.)


  #113   Report Post  
Mark L.
 
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Sounds like fun to me. As a tool and die maker, I like trying precision
work in materials other than steel.
Conan the Librarian wrote:

Mark L. wrote:

[making shoji]



FWIW, Van Arsdale's book was the one I followed when doing a shoji
window treatment (http://uweb.txstate.edu/~cv01/shoji.jpg). He gives
very precise set-by-step instructions, and if you follow them to the
letter, you should be OK.

Of course, on a project like that, the devil is in the details. It
was absolutely the most exacting woodworking I have ever undertaken.
Tiny m&t's and half-laps, tight tolerances, fragile wood, etc. make for
a pretty intense woodworking experience.

And the glueup was ridiculous. You need approximately five hands to
do it.

So yes ... I am encouraging you to give it a try. At least once. :-)


Chuck Vance


  #114   Report Post  
Ron
 
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My #1, immutable, unyielding rule in the shop is:

"It is absolutely forbidden to start a new project until the current project
is complete."



That's interesting how people are different. Of course 35 would be too
many for me but I just spent the evening with SWMBO trying to convince
her that I need to have 3 projects at any one time. My rational is
this. If I'm in the finishing stages of a project and I'm tired of the
sanding and finishing or I just get impatient, I can go to another
project and work on that stage. By having 3 projects at any time I
will have a beginning, middle and end stage project. Right now I have
a flag display case that got the last glue up last night and needs
sanding and finishing, a jewelry box that has some rough cuts and is
just about mid way and I just started the plannign and budgeting for a
cabinet for the bathroom. When I get home tonight I can either sand
wood, cut wood, or buy wood for my next project. YMMV
  #115   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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"Ron" wrote in message


That's interesting how people are different. Of course 35 would be too
many for me but I just spent the evening with SWMBO trying to convince
her that I need to have 3 projects at any one time. My rational is
this. If I'm in the finishing stages of a project and I'm tired of the
sanding and finishing or I just get impatient, I can go to another
project and work on that stage.


I work the same way. Especially if one project is intricate and you need a
mental and/or physical break from something.

At times I have a dozen things I'd like to start but can't decide what is
next.
Ed




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