Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

Note that that new supply line might not be capable of tightening up
the connection regardless of length. I went through three of them in
quick succession--in each the brass nut broke before the dripping
stopped. Fourth one was from McMaster, not Home Depot. It's been
fine for 20 years.

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:31:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Seems to be consumer fraud to me.

On 3/6/2021 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:31:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Seems to be consumer fraud to me.


Dumb question: what are the actual measurements. I suspect the total
length of the new one is 12" and the old one is 12" between the connectors.

On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:24:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 3/6/2021 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:31:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Seems to be consumer fraud to me.

Dumb question: what are the actual measurements. I suspect the total
length of the new one is 12" and the old one is 12" between the connectors.

Wrong on both counts. :-)

The total length of the old one in 12.75". The total length of the new one is 12.25".

Neither of them are 12" between the connectors, but since the connectors are the
same size (~.75" and ~.5") the length of the braided portion is different by the
same .5" as the overall length.

Amazon carries a 12" fill tube where the specified product length is 12.75". I almost
ordered it, but I wanted the toilet back in operation today. I just got back from Lowe's.
The 16" fill tube works (and looks) just fine.

I didn't measure it before installation, so don't ask. ;-)

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 18:05:39 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:24:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 3/6/2021 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:31:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Seems to be consumer fraud to me.

Dumb question: what are the actual measurements. I suspect the total
length of the new one is 12" and the old one is 12" between the connectors.

Wrong on both counts. :-)

The total length of the old one in 12.75". The total length of the new one is 12.25".

Neither of them are 12" between the connectors, but since the connectors are the
same size (~.75" and ~.5") the length of the braided portion is different by the
same .5" as the overall length.

So it is like the 2x4.

Amazon carries a 12" fill tube where the specified product length is 12.75". I almost
ordered it, but I wanted the toilet back in operation today. I just got back from Lowe's.
The 16" fill tube works (and looks) just fine.

I didn't measure it before installation, so don't ask. ;-)

You wouldn't be the only one to make this mistake.

On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 9:44:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 18:05:39 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:24:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 3/6/2021 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:31:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Seems to be consumer fraud to me.

Dumb question: what are the actual measurements. I suspect the total
length of the new one is 12" and the old one is 12" between the connectors.

Wrong on both counts. :-)

The total length of the old one in 12.75". The total length of the new one is 12.25".

Neither of them are 12" between the connectors, but since the connectors are the
same size (~.75" and ~.5") the length of the braided portion is different by the
same .5" as the overall length.
So it is like the 2x4.
Amazon carries a 12" fill tube where the specified product length is 12.75". I almost
ordered it, but I wanted the toilet back in operation today. I just got back from Lowe's.
The 16" fill tube works (and looks) just fine.

I didn't measure it before installation, so don't ask. ;-)
You wouldn't be the only one to make this mistake.

Well, in this case it wasn't a mistake. If the old 12" supply line fit, and the new one was
only short by a 1/2", I was pretty sure that whatever actual length the 16" fill tube was,
it would fit.

If I had more time, I would have hired an engineer to draw up a set of fully dimensioned
plans and provide 27 eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
a paragraph on the back back of each one explaining what each one was to be used
for, but I really wanted to get the toilet back in service today.

I was getting tired of the alternative.

https://i.imgur.com/B8b5MX7.jpg

On 3/6/2021 3:36 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a
nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts
and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry
took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Comparisons could go on.Â* A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to.Â* It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.


Houston used to have 2 major newspapers. I subscribed to the Houston
Chronicle for a bout 15 years. It was the dominant paper over the
Houston Post.

Along comes about 1995ish and the Chronicle out right buys the Post.
Then fires all the Post employees and shuts down the Post all together.

I dropped the Chronicle almost immediately. While I did not read the
Post, I knew that the Chronicle, with no competition, would go down hill
quickly.

Now we have Fake News and no proof reading and it is a waste of trees.

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.


Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:19:15 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...
Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.


My daughter's 86 YO house has full size studs, posts, beams, joists, etc.
Via various upgrades/renovations it also has nominal sized studs, beams,
post, joists, etc.

Thing is, it's not like they had Tom Silva-like crews doing the work. The
face of the various structural members are rarely on the same plane.

It's like they didn't even try, even with some of the original 1935
structure. Anything done after that was as if they said "Well, it wasn't
even before we got here so we don't have to worry about making it
even either."

The same holds for the wiring and plumbing. "They did sloppy work,
no need for me to try and be neat."

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:19:06 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.

Well, yes, but the shrinkage started out to be the rough cut and
planed size. Then they downsized the rough cut to get the same size
after planeing. I think _then_ they dropped it to what it is now.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

With 1% the "news" and 10x the advertising. I don't think we've taken
a newspaper in 40 years. At times they've littered our front yard
with them. It was nearly impossible to get it stopped (counted as
"circulation").

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:13:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:19:15 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...
Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.


My daughter's 86 YO house has full size studs, posts, beams, joists, etc.
Via various upgrades/renovations it also has nominal sized studs, beams,
post, joists, etc.

Thing is, it's not like they had Tom Silva-like crews doing the work. The
face of the various structural members are rarely on the same plane.

It's like they didn't even try, even with some of the original 1935
structure. Anything done after that was as if they said "Well, it wasn't
even before we got here so we don't have to worry about making it
even either."

The same holds for the wiring and plumbing. "They did sloppy work,
no need for me to try and be neat."

At the other end of the spectrum, newer houses have a reputation for
exactly the same thing. Preparing to do some work for my shop in this
house (built in 2007), I put a level on the basement studs. Now these
are all load bearing (the basement walls are directly under the first
floor walls) and all 2x6s. Every one of them is as plumb as can be.
They seem to be pretty accurately placed, as well. I was really
surprised.

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 19:08:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 9:44:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 18:05:39 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:24:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 3/6/2021 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:31:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Seems to be consumer fraud to me.

Dumb question: what are the actual measurements. I suspect the total
length of the new one is 12" and the old one is 12" between the connectors.

Wrong on both counts. :-)

The total length of the old one in 12.75". The total length of the new one is 12.25".

Neither of them are 12" between the connectors, but since the connectors are the
same size (~.75" and ~.5") the length of the braided portion is different by the
same .5" as the overall length.
So it is like the 2x4.
Amazon carries a 12" fill tube where the specified product length is 12.75". I almost
ordered it, but I wanted the toilet back in operation today. I just got back from Lowe's.
The 16" fill tube works (and looks) just fine.

I didn't measure it before installation, so don't ask. ;-)
You wouldn't be the only one to make this mistake.

Well, in this case it wasn't a mistake. If the old 12" supply line fit, and the new one was
only short by a 1/2", I was pretty sure that whatever actual length the 16" fill tube was,
it would fit.

I meant the 12". I sure wouldn't have measured the fill line, though
may have noticed that it was pretty tight.

If I had more time, I would have hired an engineer to draw up a set of fully dimensioned
plans and provide 27 eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
a paragraph on the back back of each one explaining what each one was to be used
for, but I really wanted to get the toilet back in service today.

Use Sketchup! ;-)

Or you could have just put it out for government contract.

I was getting tired of the alternative.

https://i.imgur.com/B8b5MX7.jpg

Isn't the woodcraft catalog a little "scratchy"?

On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 7:49:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 19:08:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 9:44:10 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 18:05:39 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 8:24:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On 3/6/2021 7:47 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:31:58 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Seems to be consumer fraud to me.

Dumb question: what are the actual measurements. I suspect the total
length of the new one is 12" and the old one is 12" between the connectors.

Wrong on both counts. :-)

The total length of the old one in 12.75". The total length of the new one is 12.25".

Neither of them are 12" between the connectors, but since the connectors are the
same size (~.75" and ~.5") the length of the braided portion is different by the
same .5" as the overall length.
So it is like the 2x4.
Amazon carries a 12" fill tube where the specified product length is 12.75". I almost
ordered it, but I wanted the toilet back in operation today. I just got back from Lowe's.
The 16" fill tube works (and looks) just fine.

I didn't measure it before installation, so don't ask. ;-)
You wouldn't be the only one to make this mistake.

Well, in this case it wasn't a mistake. If the old 12" supply line fit, and the new one was
only short by a 1/2", I was pretty sure that whatever actual length the 16" fill tube was,
it would fit.
I meant the 12". I sure wouldn't have measured the fill line, though
may have noticed that it was pretty tight.

I guess it was pretty tight...it didn't leak. ;-)

I installed it 20+ years ago. No way I remember if I was concerned about the length
back then. For all I remember, maybe it was the one from the original toilet I replaced
when I was rebuilding the bathroom back then. An errant sledge hammer swing while
taking out a wall sent that one to the landfill.

This time, I just figured a 12" fill line was a 12" fill line, so I bought a 12" fill line.

Who'd a thunk there is no standard for a 12" fill line.

If I had more time, I would have hired an engineer to draw up a set of fully dimensioned
plans and provide 27 eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and
a paragraph on the back back of each one explaining what each one was to be used
for, but I really wanted to get the toilet back in service today.
Use Sketchup! ;-)

Or you could have just put it out for government contract.
I was getting tired of the alternative.

https://i.imgur.com/B8b5MX7.jpg
Isn't the woodcraft catalog a little "scratchy"?

Woodsmith magazine.

I only read it for the centerfold...err...umm...I mean the articles.

On 3/7/2021 7:38 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:19:06 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.

Well, yes, but the shrinkage started out to be the rough cut and
planed size. Then they downsized the rough cut to get the same size
after planeing. I think _then_ they dropped it to what it is now.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

With 1% the "news" and 10x the advertising. I don't think we've taken
a newspaper in 40 years. At times they've littered our front yard
with them. It was nearly impossible to get it stopped (counted as
"circulation").

Well, the trouble being that as circulation continues to drop, they lose
ad revenue. Newspapers peaked circa 2000, and declined from there.
Television and radio had nothing on them; free news on the internet did
newspapers in. Meanwhile, where does the "free news" come from?
Newspaper journalists... bit of a conundrum there. I much prefer
reading my news on paper - I don't even have cable TV. If it shrinks
anymore without a shrinking price, I'm done I suppose.

On 3/7/2021 1:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 11:19:15 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...
Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.


My daughter's 86 YO house has full size studs, posts, beams, joists, etc.
Via various upgrades/renovations it also has nominal sized studs, beams,
post, joists, etc.

Thing is, it's not like they had Tom Silva-like crews doing the work. The
face of the various structural members are rarely on the same plane.

It's like they didn't even try, even with some of the original 1935
structure. Anything done after that was as if they said "Well, it wasn't
even before we got here so we don't have to worry about making it
even either."

The same holds for the wiring and plumbing. "They did sloppy work,
no need for me to try and be neat."

My grandfather had to open up a wall once in his parent's home many
years ago. An outlet was added into the wall below. To install said
outlet, the prior owner bared some insulation off of the knob and tube
wiring, and literally hooked wires to it, in a hook shape, gravity
holding the wires onto the K&T in the wall and making the copper
connection. The wires weren't even twisted - no splicing tape used.
How terrifying! Amazing it didn't burn to the ground.

On 3/7/2021 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:19:06 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.

Well, yes, but the shrinkage started out to be the rough cut and
planed size. Then they downsized the rough cut to get the same size
after planeing. I think _then_ they dropped it to what it is now.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

With 1% the "news" and 10x the advertising. I don't think we've taken
a newspaper in 40 years. At times they've littered our front yard
with them. It was nearly impossible to get it stopped (counted as
"circulation").


We moved into a new neighborhood 10 years ago and my dad moved in with
us about 6 months later. He still insisted in taking the paper but he
was the only one that I know of in the neighborhood that did so. I have
not seen a newspaper in years.

On 3/7/2021 9:23 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
On 3/7/2021 7:38 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:19:06 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnetÂ* wrote:

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get
a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75
qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing
industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics.Â* A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on.Â* His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size.Â*Â* He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

Â*From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
Â* gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.

Well, yes, but the shrinkage started out to be the rough cut and
planed size.Â* Then they downsized the rough cut to get the same size
after planeing.Â* I think _then_ they dropped it to what it is now.

Comparisons could go on.Â* A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to.Â* It's at least
1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

With 1% the "news" and 10x the advertising.Â* I don't think we've taken
a newspaper in 40 years.Â* At times they've littered our front yard
with them.Â* It was nearly impossible to get it stopped (counted as
"circulation").

Well, the trouble being that as circulation continues to drop, they lose
ad revenue.Â* Newspapers peaked circa 2000, and declined from there.
Television and radio had nothing on them; free news on the internet did
newspapers in.Â* Meanwhile, where does the "free news" come from?
Newspaper journalists... bit of a conundrum there.Â* I much prefer
reading my news on paper - I don't even have cable TV.Â* If it shrinks
anymore without a shrinking price, I'm done I suppose.

LOL, I used to take the news paper up until 1995 for the adds. The
news was what they wanted you to read, not really the news.
And now all media is prolifically motivated stories.

On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 11:43:22 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:19:06 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.

Well, yes, but the shrinkage started out to be the rough cut and
planed size. Then they downsized the rough cut to get the same size
after planeing. I think _then_ they dropped it to what it is now.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

With 1% the "news" and 10x the advertising. I don't think we've taken
a newspaper in 40 years. At times they've littered our front yard
with them. It was nearly impossible to get it stopped (counted as
"circulation").

We moved into a new neighborhood 10 years ago and my dad moved in with
us about 6 months later. He still insisted in taking the paper but he
was the only one that I know of in the neighborhood that did so. I have
not seen a newspaper in years.

We get the paper delivered on weekends. SWMBO reads it in the recliner while
having her coffee. "You want me to heat that up for you?" "Yes, please." Gawd,
she's got it so good! ;-)

She reads it mainly for the local news and feature items. She cuts out articles
that she thinks I might be interested in. e.g. She was on unemployment for about
a month when Covid first hit. She found an article on doing taxes that mentioned
unemployment benefits. Cut it out, left it on my desk. That type of thing.

She often finds things to do around town and movies that she/we might be interested
in. Keeps her happy which keeps me happy.

The delivery comes with a interesting situation. Does the elderly gentleman that delivers
the paper at 3 AM do it because he has to or because he wants to? Does the fact that
he is so bowlegged that it takes him upwards of 2 minutes to shuffle his way from his
car to my front door and back a problem for him or just a way of life? At any hint of
inclement weather he climbs the 2 steps of my stoop and puts the paper inside the
storm door just like I did when I was a teenager. Sometimes it's not even needed, so I'm
guessing he does it because he wants to.

On Sun, 07 Mar 2021 22:23:11 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/7/2021 7:38 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:19:06 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.

Well, yes, but the shrinkage started out to be the rough cut and
planed size. Then they downsized the rough cut to get the same size
after planeing. I think _then_ they dropped it to what it is now.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

With 1% the "news" and 10x the advertising. I don't think we've taken
a newspaper in 40 years. At times they've littered our front yard
with them. It was nearly impossible to get it stopped (counted as
"circulation").

Well, the trouble being that as circulation continues to drop, they lose
ad revenue. Newspapers peaked circa 2000, and declined from there.
Television and radio had nothing on them; free news on the internet did
newspapers in. Meanwhile, where does the "free news" come from?
Newspaper journalists... bit of a conundrum there. I much prefer
reading my news on paper - I don't even have cable TV. If it shrinks
anymore without a shrinking price, I'm done I suppose.

They were done long before the Internet. They've been dying for at
least fifty years. They'd already been turning into ad sheets with
little between.

On 3/8/2021 3:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 11:43:22 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:19:06 -0600, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.

Well, yes, but the shrinkage started out to be the rough cut and
planed size. Then they downsized the rough cut to get the same size
after planeing. I think _then_ they dropped it to what it is now.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

With 1% the "news" and 10x the advertising. I don't think we've taken
a newspaper in 40 years. At times they've littered our front yard
with them. It was nearly impossible to get it stopped (counted as
"circulation").

We moved into a new neighborhood 10 years ago and my dad moved in with
us about 6 months later. He still insisted in taking the paper but he
was the only one that I know of in the neighborhood that did so. I have
not seen a newspaper in years.

We get the paper delivered on weekends. SWMBO reads it in the recliner while
having her coffee. "You want me to heat that up for you?" "Yes, please." Gawd,
she's got it so good! ;-)

She reads it mainly for the local news and feature items. She cuts out articles
that she thinks I might be interested in. e.g. She was on unemployment for about
a month when Covid first hit. She found an article on doing taxes that mentioned
unemployment benefits. Cut it out, left it on my desk. That type of thing.

She often finds things to do around town and movies that she/we might be interested
in. Keeps her happy which keeps me happy.

The delivery comes with a interesting situation. Does the elderly gentleman that delivers
the paper at 3 AM do it because he has to or because he wants to? Does the fact that
he is so bowlegged that it takes him upwards of 2 minutes to shuffle his way from his
car to my front door and back a problem for him or just a way of life? At any hint of
inclement weather he climbs the 2 steps of my stoop and puts the paper inside the
storm door just like I did when I was a teenager. Sometimes it's not even needed, so I'm
guessing he does it because he wants to.


Local news is minimal anymore, but there is some. I like reading the
opinion columns, even though most are syndicated. Plus the comics.

I pick up the Sunday Pittsburgh PA Post Gazette on my way home from work
every Sunday morning. There is a lot more content in that paper for sure.

On 3/8/2021 2:24 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 11:43:22 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2021 6:38 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 10:19:06 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/6/2021 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 16:36:56 -0500, Michael Trew
wrote:

On 3/6/2021 2:31 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since I'm sprucing up the bathroom, I figured I might as well get a nice new
supply line for the toilet.

Remember when a half gallon of ice cream suddenly shrunk to 1.75 qts and even 1.5 qts for some brands? Apparently the plumbing industry took notice.

Here's my old 12" supply line compared to the new 12" supply line.

https://i.imgur.com/QYEh8I9.jpg

Guess how much more supply line I need to tighten up the connection?

Same as the 2"X4" studs in 100+ year old homes, as compared to the
1.5"X3.5" "2X4" lumber of today.

Well, there is a reason for that but...

Economics. A old friend had an old home that he was doing some
modifications on. His wall studs were OAK 2x4, actual size. He had to
take that into consideration when cutting nailing AND matching up wall
thickness.

From what I understand, the lumber, now, starts at 2x4 and shrinks and
gets milled to 1.5 x 3.5.



Perhaps a better example would be plywood.

Economics.

Well, yes, but the shrinkage started out to be the rough cut and
planed size. Then they downsized the rough cut to get the same size
after planeing. I think _then_ they dropped it to what it is now.

Comparisons could go on. A prime example being our local daily paper,
which I sometimes wonder why I still subscribe to. It's at least 1/3 of
the size that it was 20 years ago, even printed on shorter broadsheet
paper; yet the price is over 3 times higher.

With 1% the "news" and 10x the advertising. I don't think we've taken
a newspaper in 40 years. At times they've littered our front yard
with them. It was nearly impossible to get it stopped (counted as
"circulation").

We moved into a new neighborhood 10 years ago and my dad moved in with
us about 6 months later. He still insisted in taking the paper but he
was the only one that I know of in the neighborhood that did so. I have
not seen a newspaper in years.

We get the paper delivered on weekends. SWMBO reads it in the recliner while
having her coffee. "You want me to heat that up for you?" "Yes, please." Gawd,
she's got it so good! ;-)

She reads it mainly for the local news and feature items. She cuts out articles
that she thinks I might be interested in. e.g. She was on unemployment for about
a month when Covid first hit. She found an article on doing taxes that mentioned
unemployment benefits. Cut it out, left it on my desk. That type of thing.

She often finds things to do around town and movies that she/we might be interested
in. Keeps her happy which keeps me happy.

The delivery comes with a interesting situation. Does the elderly gentleman that delivers
the paper at 3 AM do it because he has to or because he wants to? Does the fact that
he is so bowlegged that it takes him upwards of 2 minutes to shuffle his way from his
car to my front door and back a problem for him or just a way of life? At any hint of
inclement weather he climbs the 2 steps of my stoop and puts the paper inside the
storm door just like I did when I was a teenager. Sometimes it's not even needed, so I'm
guessing he does it because he wants to.



If I had a delivery service like that I would take the paper again.
News papers are good for protecting the floor when spray painting. ;~)