Hi fellas,

I am "in" the rec.guns NG and a new topic has emerged, one we all
know.

To wit: the poor quality of new stuff, fresh from the manufacturer or
whoever makes it for the manufacturer (which helps absolve the
manufacturer from having to do repairs on shoddy stuff)
..
I think we have more of that problem in woodworking, but it exists in
other universes too :-)

James

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 11:13:12 -0400, brocpuffs
wrote:

To wit: the poor quality of new stuff, fresh from the manufacturer or
whoever makes it for the manufacturer (which helps absolve the
manufacturer from having to do repairs on shoddy stuff)

Woodworking is about making things from wood, not about buying tools.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message

Woodworking is about making things from wood, not about buying tools.

So, if wood"working" is not about buying tools, what the hell are we doing
with these opposing thumbs?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 17:52:16 +0100, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 11:13:12 -0400, brocpuffs
wrote:

To wit: the poor quality of new stuff, fresh from the manufacturer or
whoever makes it for the manufacturer (which helps absolve the
manufacturer from having to do repairs on shoddy stuff)

Woodworking is about making things from wood, not about buying tools.

Says who?

Is it that the quality of the products has gone down, or that we expect more
from what we buy. or is that we expect a lot more from the products we do
buy then we are actually paying for.

I would not trade my new vehicle for my first car. It was a lot of fun but
the amount of work required to keep it running was substantially more than
what I have now.

I think the same thing can be applied to most goods. Most consumer goods
are much higher quality then they were 20 years ago, but the high end stuff
seems to have dropped off a bit, probably because for most people they do
not need the high end stuff and are unwilling to pay for it. years ago, if
you wanted something reliable you had to pay top dollar. Now you can get
stuff that is very serviceable for a lot less, and while it may not be quite
up to the standards of top notch stuff of a while back, it also costs much
less.

"brocpuffs" wrote in message
...
Hi fellas,

I am "in" the rec.guns NG and a new topic has emerged, one we all
know.

To wit: the poor quality of new stuff, fresh from the manufacturer or
whoever makes it for the manufacturer (which helps absolve the
manufacturer from having to do repairs on shoddy stuff)
.
I think we have more of that problem in woodworking, but it exists in
other universes too :-)

James

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 17:52:16 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:


Woodworking is about making things from wood, not about buying tools.



Oh Man....

Andy, you're gonna get crucified for that one....

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 17:00:42 -0700, wrote:

Andy, you're gonna get crucified for that one....

Bring it on.... I've spent the last two days making sword mountings
8-)


Today I used a _wide_ range of tools. I admit that I roughed the stock
down on the tablesaw first, but after that I spent a whole day working
and didn't use anything other than four chisels and a pencil. 90% of
it was with just one shallow carving gouge. (I was using lime, so I
didn't even need to re-hone it.)

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 01:26:24 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 17:00:42 -0700, wrote:

Andy, you're gonna get crucified for that one....

Bring it on.... I've spent the last two days making sword mountings
8-)


Today I used a _wide_ range of tools. I admit that I roughed the stock
down on the tablesaw first, but after that I spent a whole day working
and didn't use anything other than four chisels

AHA! TOOLS! Man, who said I was referring to power tools only?

and a pencil. 90% of

hmmm - does a pencil qualify as a tool? Of course. Even a flat rock
with one edge sharpened is a tool!

it was with just one shallow carving gouge.

TOOL!! Gotcha!

(I was using lime, so I
didn't even need to re-hone it.)

-whatever ;-)

James

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 11:13:12 -0400, brocpuffs
wrote:

Hi fellas,

I am "in" the rec.guns NG and a new topic has emerged, one we all
know.

To wit: the poor quality of new stuff, fresh from the manufacturer or
whoever makes it for the manufacturer (which helps absolve the
manufacturer from having to do repairs on shoddy stuff)
.
I think we have more of that problem in woodworking, but it exists in
other universes too :-)

James


The only mitigating comment here is that I remember my dad and
grandfathers complaining about the lousy quality of new [farm machinery,
cars, guns, tools] as well -- back in the 1960's. While there are declines
in some brands, there seem to be other brands that rise to capture niche
markets for those who appreciate quality -- witness the businesses like
Lee Valley, Steve Knight, Ed Bennett, Horton Brass, McFeeley's, and other
similar businesses who, though smaller than the megalithic conglomerates,
have carved out a niche in the market and are appreciated by that niche.

Larry Blanchard wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...

The only mitigating comment here is that I remember my dad and
grandfathers complaining about the lousy quality of new [farm machinery,
cars, guns, tools] as well -- back in the 1960's.

True. But Goodell & Pratt got bought out back in the '30s, IIRC :-).

If it says "Disston & Son(s)", "Goodell Brothers", "Goodell & Pratt", or
"Stanley Rule & Level", it's a good (hand) tool.

Oops, almost forgot "Goodell Mfg", the 3rd brother.

I'm sure there were many others, but those are ones I've actually got.

Just gotta jump in--
Since this is "rec" woodworking-- I may have to assume (I Know what it
stands for) that yall are a bunch of recreational & some professional
woodworkers. IF you use a tool all day long, it must bear up to
professional standards. However if you only use a tool from time to
time & have the TIME to tweak it to your standards, a less
professional (read poorly made or crappy tool) may suffice.
On the other hand, if time is not on your hands & money is, the better
tool (there are MANY discussions of what is better appear in this
forum) may be what you need and have to look for. With that said::

I think the there are poor, good and better tools out there-- some
GREAT tools out there. Face it, tool manufacturers are in it for the
$ or lira or pounds etc. If they can get by on a name for awhile (&
screw a few people) they will do it. (Doesn't make it right, just a
simple fact)
If you are a homeowner who will use a drill once every other month,
why buy the topoftheline??? Actually I have a few BIG LOTS tools
(real cheap, most likely remanufactured in Lower Slabovia) that I have
used once & will be happy if they ever work again & have gotten my
money's worth.
A last note-- Times change & almost everything of quality will
increase in price. Even free time.
JMO
Phil