On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2019 9:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/5/2019 7:58 PM, Bob D wrote:
The GMC tailgate looks like a solution looking for a problem.


I am a problem.Â* My ass is not getting up in the bed without a step of
some sort.Â* If I was in the market for a pickup it would be a
consideration

Almost all if not all pick up trucks have a step bumper to begin with.
The GMC step does not go much lower than the built in step in the bumper.

On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/5/2019 9:58 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/5/2019 7:58 PM, Bob D wrote:
The GMC tailgate looks like a solution looking for a problem.


I am a problem.Â* My ass is not getting up in the bed without a step of
some sort.Â* If I was in the market for a pickup it would be a
consideration

Almost all if not all pick up trucks have a step bumper to begin with.
The GMC step does not go much lower than the built in step in the bumper.
I use the step on the bumper to get in the bed of my Tundra, and then I
drop the tailgate.

Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes! With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.
With the GMC you are only about 8" closer to the bed, in the
configuration for that purpose.

On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.


That's the real benefit I see. When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue. Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel. ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.




My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???

On 3/8/19 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks
like its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of
trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the
back door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel.Â* ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what
I mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.


And puts your headlights in everybody else's eyes.


My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but
I could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???

Yep. Back when I was building our first house, I made regular trips to
the "gravel pit" and with certain stone, a full, humped bed load was
just over 1.5 tons.
It flatted out the springs quite a bit, but man, it rode like a Cadillac
with that load in it.
I just had to make sure I got on the brakes early. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

-MIKE- writes:
On 3/8/19 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.


And puts your headlights in everybody else's eyes.


And your front bumper in everyone elses rear window in a wreck.

On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks
like its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of
trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the
back door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the
back floor and the glass went up into the roof panel.Â* ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off
the ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these
trucks with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you
know what I mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.


And puts your headlights in everybody else's eyes.

Even a shorter truck, with a 3,000 lb load will put its head lights in
every one else s eyes. LOL.

I have probably seen as many "cars" that do that too. 2 people in the
back seat and there you go.

In Texas head light alignment was a requirement several years ago for
annual state inspections. That has been eliminated, I think. Probably
because alignment is more difficult with out a sealed beam lamp.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 10:55:51 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.* When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel. ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.




My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???
Dad's of bent-side F150 scaled at 2.5 tons of mixed hardwood on one
load - it had quite a "squat" and had rolled 2 tires off the rims on
the way down the hill to the road from the cutting site - it was quite
a job to jack that sucker up to change the tires. He drove home with
the tires at 50PSI at 30MPH max (about 20 miles)

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 6:01:01 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 10:55:51 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel. ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.




My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???
Dad's of bent-side F150 scaled at 2.5 tons of mixed hardwood on one
load - it had quite a "squat" and had rolled 2 tires off the rims on
the way down the hill to the road from the cutting site - it was quite
a job to jack that sucker up to change the tires. He drove home with
the tires at 50PSI at 30MPH max (about 20 miles)

Whenever I had to move 2.5 tons, I'd make 2 trips at 1.25 tons each.

That's about all the Vega could handle. ;-)

On 3/8/19 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks
like its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of
trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the
back door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the
back floor and the glass went up into the roof panel.Â* ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off
the ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these
trucks with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you
know what I mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.


And puts your headlights in everybody else's eyes.

Even a shorter truck, with a 3,000 lb load will put its head lights in
every one else s eyes.Â* LOL.


LOL! Yep, I've seen that around here with all the landscaping trucks
hauling trailers that are waaaaay too overloaded.

One time I saw one on a really wet road that was so back heavy, it lost
enough traction in the front tires that it couldn't make a turn at in
intersection.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:03:28 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/8/19 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks
like its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of
trailering.


Yes!* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.* When I saw that it reminded me the
back door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel.* ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what
I mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.


And puts your headlights in everybody else's eyes.


My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but
I could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???

Yep. Back when I was building our first house, I made regular trips to
the "gravel pit" and with certain stone, a full, humped bed load was
just over 1.5 tons.
It flatted out the springs quite a bit, but man, it rode like a Cadillac
with that load in it.
I just had to make sure I got on the brakes early. :-)
Imagine a Ford Ranger with 1200 square feet of ash hardwood flooring
in it - or 22 standard IKEA billy library shelves? The hardwood from
Plattsville to Waterloo, and the shelves from BVurlington to Waterloo.
Rode like a dream and handled like a pig.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 17:14:24 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 6:01:01 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 10:55:51 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.* When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel. ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.




My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???
Dad's of bent-side F150 scaled at 2.5 tons of mixed hardwood on one
load - it had quite a "squat" and had rolled 2 tires off the rims on
the way down the hill to the road from the cutting site - it was quite
a job to jack that sucker up to change the tires. He drove home with
the tires at 50PSI at 30MPH max (about 20 miles)

Whenever I had to move 2.5 tons, I'd make 2 trips at 1.25 tons each.

That's about all the Vega could handle. ;-)
On that note - what was the biggest design flaw on the GM Chevette??
(aka the shove-it)

Single exhaust.

It's awfull hard to push a wheelbarrow with only one handle - - -

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 19:27:51 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/8/19 12:34 PM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 11:03 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks
like its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of
trailering.


Yes!* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.* When I saw that it reminded me the
back door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the
back floor and the glass went up into the roof panel.* ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off
the ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.* Probably 85% of these
trucks with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you
know what I mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.


And puts your headlights in everybody else's eyes.

Even a shorter truck, with a 3,000 lb load will put its head lights in
every one else s eyes.* LOL.


LOL! Yep, I've seen that around here with all the landscaping trucks
hauling trailers that are waaaaay too overloaded.

One time I saw one on a really wet road that was so back heavy, it lost
enough traction in the front tires that it couldn't make a turn at in
intersection.
We call 'em "coon hunters" that's RACcoon

On 3/8/19 8:35 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:03:28 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/8/19 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks
like its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of
trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the
back door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel.Â* ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what
I mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.


And puts your headlights in everybody else's eyes.


My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but
I could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???

Yep. Back when I was building our first house, I made regular trips to
the "gravel pit" and with certain stone, a full, humped bed load was
just over 1.5 tons.
It flatted out the springs quite a bit, but man, it rode like a Cadillac
with that load in it.
I just had to make sure I got on the brakes early. :-)
Imagine a Ford Ranger with 1200 square feet of ash hardwood flooring
in it - or 22 standard IKEA billy library shelves? The hardwood from
Plattsville to Waterloo, and the shelves from BVurlington to Waterloo.
Rode like a dream and handled like a pig.


Wow. The Ranger was NOT a truck.
I bet you didn't feel any speed bumps, but it probably steered like an
oil tanker with that load.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/8/2019 10:23 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 17:14:24 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 6:01:01 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 10:55:51 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel. ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.




My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???
Dad's of bent-side F150 scaled at 2.5 tons of mixed hardwood on one
load - it had quite a "squat" and had rolled 2 tires off the rims on
the way down the hill to the road from the cutting site - it was quite
a job to jack that sucker up to change the tires. He drove home with
the tires at 50PSI at 30MPH max (about 20 miles)

Whenever I had to move 2.5 tons, I'd make 2 trips at 1.25 tons each.

That's about all the Vega could handle. ;-)
On that note - what was the biggest design flaw on the GM Chevette??
(aka the shove-it)

Single exhaust.

It's awfull hard to push a wheelbarrow with only one handle - - -


Some years back I drove one cross country. It was one of my brother's
cars and his wife liked it. When he moved to San Diego, I took the Vega
about a week later. Made the trip OK, never abused it speed wise, but
it was never the same after that. 3500 miles in 5 1/2 days was too much.
He got rid of it a few months later.

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 11:03:49 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/8/2019 10:23 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 17:14:24 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 6:01:01 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 10:55:51 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel. ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.




My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???
Dad's of bent-side F150 scaled at 2.5 tons of mixed hardwood on one
load - it had quite a "squat" and had rolled 2 tires off the rims on
the way down the hill to the road from the cutting site - it was quite
a job to jack that sucker up to change the tires. He drove home with
the tires at 50PSI at 30MPH max (about 20 miles)

Whenever I had to move 2.5 tons, I'd make 2 trips at 1.25 tons each.

That's about all the Vega could handle. ;-)
On that note - what was the biggest design flaw on the GM Chevette??
(aka the shove-it)

Single exhaust.

It's awfull hard to push a wheelbarrow with only one handle - - -


Some years back I drove one cross country. It was one of my brother's
cars and his wife liked it. When he moved to San Diego, I took the Vega
about a week later. Made the trip OK, never abused it speed wise, but
it was never the same after that. 3500 miles in 5 1/2 days was too much.
He got rid of it a few months later.

I once shared the driving of a Javelin from Cleveland to NYC. AMC used to
tap into the vacuum line to run the windshield wipers. Early into the
trip, the wipers started acting weird. They would go up, but not come
back down unless you turned them off, which was done with a sliding lever.

Whoever wasn't driving would slide the lever up, down, up, down for hours.
I was doing the "levering" when the lever came off in my hand. Luckily, it
happened when the wipers were up because we found out that if you manually
pulled them down, they would go back up by themselves, thanks to the vacuum..

We rummaged around in the back of this beater and found just enough wire
to tie to the passenger wiper so that the passenger could pull them down,
let them go up, pull them down, etc. Unfortunately, to make it work, we
had to let our hand go part way out of the window. Highway speeds and 40°
weather make for some cold-ass hands. We ended up putting our socks on
our hands to keep them somewhat warm. We were wet, cold and dirty by the
time we reached NYC. 30+ years later I found the following video and sent
it to my best man, the guy I made the trip with. We still laugh about it
whenever we get together.

These guys were lucky enough to have longer wire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPI438nGjI

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 21:53:53 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/8/19 8:35 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:03:28 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/8/19 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks
like its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of
trailering.


Yes!* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.* When I saw that it reminded me the
back door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel.* ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what
I mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.


And puts your headlights in everybody else's eyes.


My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but
I could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???

Yep. Back when I was building our first house, I made regular trips to
the "gravel pit" and with certain stone, a full, humped bed load was
just over 1.5 tons.
It flatted out the springs quite a bit, but man, it rode like a Cadillac
with that load in it.
I just had to make sure I got on the brakes early. :-)
Imagine a Ford Ranger with 1200 square feet of ash hardwood flooring
in it - or 22 standard IKEA billy library shelves? The hardwood from
Plattsville to Waterloo, and the shelves from BVurlington to Waterloo.
Rode like a dream and handled like a pig.


Wow. The Ranger was NOT a truck.
I bet you didn't feel any speed bumps, but it probably steered like an
oil tanker with that load.
Like I said - it handled like a PIG. As for speed bumps _ was REALLY
carefull because I'm sure I was no more than an inch from the bump
stops.

And I'll dissagree with you - the Ranger long-box with the 4700 gvw
package is a pretty capable little truck - even at 23 years of age and
over 365000km. I HAVE upgraded from the anemic 14 inch wheels/ties to
235-70 16s and from the 10.15 inch front brakes to 11.85 Sport-trac
rotors.(but those mods were not in place for the hardwood - and only
the big tires for the Ikea load (which was a large paert of the
incentive to upgrade the brakes!!!) Running the 401 with 1870 lbs af
termite spit under the fiberglass cap on a half ton truck aint for the
faint of heart (or the careless)

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 21:00:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 11:03:49 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/8/2019 10:23 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 17:14:24 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 6:01:01 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 10:55:51 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.* When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel. ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.




My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???
Dad's of bent-side F150 scaled at 2.5 tons of mixed hardwood on one
load - it had quite a "squat" and had rolled 2 tires off the rims on
the way down the hill to the road from the cutting site - it was quite
a job to jack that sucker up to change the tires. He drove home with
the tires at 50PSI at 30MPH max (about 20 miles)

Whenever I had to move 2.5 tons, I'd make 2 trips at 1.25 tons each.

That's about all the Vega could handle. ;-)
On that note - what was the biggest design flaw on the GM Chevette??
(aka the shove-it)

Single exhaust.

It's awfull hard to push a wheelbarrow with only one handle - - -


Some years back I drove one cross country. It was one of my brother's
cars and his wife liked it. When he moved to San Diego, I took the Vega
about a week later. Made the trip OK, never abused it speed wise, but
it was never the same after that. 3500 miles in 5 1/2 days was too much.
He got rid of it a few months later.

I once shared the driving of a Javelin from Cleveland to NYC. AMC used to
tap into the vacuum line to run the windshield wipers. Early into the
trip, the wipers started acting weird. They would go up, but not come
back down unless you turned them off, which was done with a sliding lever.

Whoever wasn't driving would slide the lever up, down, up, down for hours.
I was doing the "levering" when the lever came off in my hand. Luckily, it
happened when the wipers were up because we found out that if you manually
pulled them down, they would go back up by themselves, thanks to the vacuum.

We rummaged around in the back of this beater and found just enough wire
to tie to the passenger wiper so that the passenger could pull them down,
let them go up, pull them down, etc. Unfortunately, to make it work, we
had to let our hand go part way out of the window. Highway speeds and 40°
weather make for some cold-ass hands. We ended up putting our socks on
our hands to keep them somewhat warm. We were wet, cold and dirty by the
time we reached NYC. 30+ years later I found the following video and sent
it to my best man, the guy I made the trip with. We still laugh about it
whenever we get together.

These guys were lucky enough to have longer wire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPI438nGjI
You needed a new fuel pump. The Javelin used a vaccum pump on the
fuel pump to operate the vacuum wipers if yoiu didn't spring for the
optional electric wipers.
I was an AMC mechanic in 1972.
Now the Chevies up until about 1957 didn't have this luxury - and
the wipers would slow to a halt on a long uphill grade, then go so
fast they'd throw a blade coming down the other side of the hill with
your foot off the gas. The #48 juice can repurposed as a vacuum
reservoir was almost adequate to keep the heater controls working, and
the hydrovac was good for ONE application of the brakes - but didn't
help the wipers for more than about a 10 second passing maneuver.

On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 2:14:24 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 21:00:21 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 11:03:49 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/8/2019 10:23 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 17:14:24 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, March 8, 2019 at 6:01:01 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 10:55:51 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/8/2019 9:52 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/8/19 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 3/7/2019 6:23 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019 at 9:46:40 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 3/6/2019 9:40 AM, Leon wrote:
Actually I prefer this new tail gate by RAM.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ram-...tion-tailgate/

They gave taken a proven, useful design used on Honda pickups and
enhanced it. I especially like the kick activated step. It looks like
its low enough to be really useful and its out of the way of trailering.


Yes!Â* With Honda and Ram you can actually get really close to the bed.

That's the real benefit I see.Â* When I saw that it reminded me the back
door on a 70s station wagon that would swing all the way out.

Or that station wagon door where the door dropped down beneath the back
floor and the glass went up into the roof panel. ;~)


Of course, if they'd quick making these things so fricken high off the
ground, the gate wouldn't be an issue.Â* Probably 85% of these trucks
with such high suspension never get the springs bent, if you know what I
mean.

There is that but for open road traveling the tall stance gives you a
better view.




My old '84 F-150 could comfortably haul a ton and a half of gravel but I
could see the top of the roof and into the engine bay without a step
ladder.



3,000 lbs???
Dad's of bent-side F150 scaled at 2.5 tons of mixed hardwood on one
load - it had quite a "squat" and had rolled 2 tires off the rims on
the way down the hill to the road from the cutting site - it was quite
a job to jack that sucker up to change the tires. He drove home with
the tires at 50PSI at 30MPH max (about 20 miles)

Whenever I had to move 2.5 tons, I'd make 2 trips at 1.25 tons each..

That's about all the Vega could handle. ;-)
On that note - what was the biggest design flaw on the GM Chevette??
(aka the shove-it)

Single exhaust.

It's awfull hard to push a wheelbarrow with only one handle - - -


Some years back I drove one cross country. It was one of my brother's
cars and his wife liked it. When he moved to San Diego, I took the Vega
about a week later. Made the trip OK, never abused it speed wise, but
it was never the same after that. 3500 miles in 5 1/2 days was too much.
He got rid of it a few months later.

I once shared the driving of a Javelin from Cleveland to NYC. AMC used to
tap into the vacuum line to run the windshield wipers. Early into the
trip, the wipers started acting weird. They would go up, but not come
back down unless you turned them off, which was done with a sliding lever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPI438nGjI
You needed a new fuel pump. The Javelin used a vaccum pump on the
fuel pump to operate the vacuum wipers if yoiu didn't spring for the
optional electric wipers.
I was an AMC mechanic in 1972.
Now the Chevies up until about 1957 didn't have this luxury - and
the wipers would slow to a halt on a long uphill grade, then go so
fast they'd throw a blade coming down the other side of the hill with
your foot off the gas. The #48 juice can repurposed as a vacuum
reservoir was almost adequate to keep the heater controls working, and
the hydrovac was good for ONE application of the brakes - but didn't
help the wipers for more than about a 10 second passing maneuver.


Clare - my brother had a Rebel "Machine" - I seem to remember
that it still had vacuum wipers ? ~ 1970 true ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Rebel

I would DD before the term was invented, and take off from
a stop light in 3rd gear of 4 and be half way across the
intersection before realizing it ... geared LOW or what !
As far as I know it had stock rear end.
On a 401 round-trip from Galt to Hogtown - you'd need to gas-up.
.. 200 miles max.
John T.

On Sat, 09 Mar 2019 16:07:53 -0500, wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPI438nGjI
You needed a new fuel pump. The Javelin used a vaccum pump on the
fuel pump to operate the vacuum wipers if yoiu didn't spring for the
optional electric wipers.
I was an AMC mechanic in 1972.
Now the Chevies up until about 1957 didn't have this luxury - and
the wipers would slow to a halt on a long uphill grade, then go so
fast they'd throw a blade coming down the other side of the hill with
your foot off the gas. The #48 juice can repurposed as a vacuum
reservoir was almost adequate to keep the heater controls working, and
the hydrovac was good for ONE application of the brakes - but didn't
help the wipers for more than about a 10 second passing maneuver.


Clare - my brother had a Rebel "Machine" - I seem to remember
that it still had vacuum wipers ? ~ 1970 true ?

If he didn't pay the pittance for the optional electric 2 speed
wipers, yes. I think it was less than a $25 option

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Rebel

I would DD before the term was invented, and take off from
a stop light in 3rd gear of 4 and be half way across the
intersection before realizing it ... geared LOW or what !
As far as I know it had stock rear end.
On a 401 round-trip from Galt to Hogtown - you'd need to gas-up.
.. 200 miles max.
John T.
The "trac pack" 390 came with a trac-loc 3.91 - the standard was 3.54
and the automatic got 3.15 - no optional on the automatic.
A 5.0:1 trac-loc was available from the go-fast parts department
-along with the "service pack" that boosted the stock 340
(conservatively rated)hp 390 to north of 440 HP. The stock 430 ftlb
of torque could really torture the tires even with the long-legged
3.54 rear end. Sub 12 second 1/4s with the 3.91 were not out of the
ordinary. The 5.0 gears were for the 1/8th mile.

The 401 HO in the Javelin was a SERIOUS contender. The AMC v8s were
an under-appreciated threat!!!!!With LOTS of extra power on tap with
minor modifications.

The SCrambler was even wilder - along with the later Hornet SC - or
the rare 401 Gremmi.XR. (limited edition from Randall AMC in Mesa
Arizona) There were only 21 made, but they could hand a 454 Chevelle
or a COPO Camaro it's ass handilly with 12.4 second 115MPH quarters on
pump gas.
Since the 401 and the 304 shared the same block there were quite a
few "home-brewed"XR clones built over the years - just grab a wrecked
Ambassador or AMX/Javelin 401 and slip it into your 304 Gremmi X.