In the past, I would always use my pick-up truck for anything and
everything construction related. Even for going to the store and buying say
a 5 gallon can of something.

Yesterday I needed to go to the store and buy a bunch of construction
stuff....

I thought about it... I would not be buying anything long... hummm, maybe I
could fit it all in my 38 MPG hatchback car?

And I'll be darned if everything fit. Just barely made it, but I crammed it
all in there. So then I filled up with gas on way back (tank half full)...
$9.00, not bad!

I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In the past, I would always use my pick-up truck for anything and
everything construction related. Even for going to the store and buying
say
a 5 gallon can of something.

Yesterday I needed to go to the store and buy a bunch of construction
stuff....

I thought about it... I would not be buying anything long... hummm, maybe
I
could fit it all in my 38 MPG hatchback car?

And I'll be darned if everything fit. Just barely made it, but I crammed
it
all in there. So then I filled up with gas on way back (tank half full)...
$9.00, not bad!

I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....



Okay, that does it. I'm using my Vespa from now on.


--
J.C.

J.C. wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message
...

In the past, I would always use my pick-up truck for anything and
everything construction related. Even for going to the store and buying

say

a 5 gallon can of something.

Yesterday I needed to go to the store and buy a bunch of construction
stuff....

I thought about it... I would not be buying anything long... hummm, maybe

I

could fit it all in my 38 MPG hatchback car?

And I'll be darned if everything fit. Just barely made it, but I crammed

it

all in there. So then I filled up with gas on way back (tank half full)...
$9.00, not bad!

I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....




Okay, that does it. I'm using my Vespa from now on.

Don't laugh, when I was in Taiwan last year I saw a full-size kitchen
table being carried on a scooter!

Matt

Bill wrote:
In the past, I would always use my pick-up truck for anything and
everything construction related. Even for going to the store and buying say
a 5 gallon can of something.

Yesterday I needed to go to the store and buy a bunch of construction
stuff....

I thought about it... I would not be buying anything long... hummm, maybe I
could fit it all in my 38 MPG hatchback car?

And I'll be darned if everything fit. Just barely made it, but I crammed it
all in there. So then I filled up with gas on way back (tank half full)...
$9.00, not bad!

I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....


I think there will be a lot more thinking like that from now on. The
days of cheap gas are gone forever. The prices may go down some but not
much. It's time for all of us to start thinking sensibly.

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the auto-makers
need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of pumping out the
monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go back to the early 80's
when small cars were "cool".

It is not just the manufacturers who are at fault. It is the
Testosterone based buying habits of the American public. The car
companies are making what we want to buy. Or Did want to buy. I hope
the car companies are ready to change. Last month was the first drop
in SUV sales figures in years, but it was only by 1%.

Stretch

"User Example" wrote in message

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the auto-makers
need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of pumping out the
monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go back to the early 80's
when small cars were "cool".

They will make them but in the past few years, no one was buying them.
Attitudes have to change as you point out that small cars can be "cool"

I'm doing my best. I'm only driving down hill from no on.

"Stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
It is not just the manufacturers who are at fault. It is the
Testosterone based buying habits of the American public. The car
companies are making what we want to buy. Or Did want to buy. I hope
the car companies are ready to change. Last month was the first drop
in SUV sales figures in years, but it was only by 1%.

Stretch

As you alluded to, the car companies are willing to make/sell whatever
you're willing to buy. However, if gas prices stay where they are today,
the mark-up on fuel efficient cars will be like it was in the '70's, and
they will be giving away SUV's. Until recently, they were giving away the
efficient stuff and charging out the wazzoo for SUV's. I'd hate to be the
owner of a 3 month old Mega SUV. Resale has gone in the toilet for now, and
fuel expenses are 50% or more higher than expected.

Here in the Atlanta area, I've been amazed at the lack of traffic this
weekend. High gas prices and the lingering fear of shortages (yes, there
are stations without gas, but I suspect that's because of last week's run on
gas) are keeping people from making unnecessary trips. I love it, because
it is amazing how much better traffic flows when volume is down 25% or
more...

KB

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"Stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...

It is not just the manufacturers who are at fault. It is the
Testosterone based buying habits of the American public. The car
companies are making what we want to buy. Or Did want to buy. I hope
the car companies are ready to change. Last month was the first drop
in SUV sales figures in years, but it was only by 1%.

Stretch


As you alluded to, the car companies are willing to make/sell whatever
you're willing to buy. However, if gas prices stay where they are today,
the mark-up on fuel efficient cars will be like it was in the '70's, and
they will be giving away SUV's. Until recently, they were giving away the
efficient stuff and charging out the wazzoo for SUV's. I'd hate to be the
owner of a 3 month old Mega SUV. Resale has gone in the toilet for now, and
fuel expenses are 50% or more higher than expected.


I'm not usually for government interference but I think now might be a
good time to offer some kind of incentive to auto-makers and buyers to
help sell the efficient cars... of course, I guess you could consider
the current administration's work in getting the current gas prices to
record highs an incentive.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message

...I've been amazed at the lack of traffic this weekend...


I noticed the same thing. Also seemed to see a larger proportion of smaller
vehicles and an absence of monster SUV's, RV's, etc.

I heard that a Chevy Suburban is now costing around $150 for a fill-up, so
I can see why...

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:35:15 GMT, User Example
wrote:


I think there will be a lot more thinking like that from now on. The
days of cheap gas are gone forever. The prices may go down some but not
much. It's time for all of us to start thinking sensibly.

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the auto-makers
need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of pumping out the
monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go back to the early 80's
when small cars were "cool".


The automakers will make anything that the public wants to buy. Last
time I was at the dealership no one held a gun to my head and said
that I must buy a gas guzzling SUV. They make the SUV because that is
what people are buying. All these dealerships also offer smaller more
fuel efficient vehicles (except hummer and perhaps a couple others).

Small cars are more "cool" now than they ever were. Most of the kids
want a Honda that they can soup up today. Those that drive a SUV do
so because it was a hand me down from their parents much the way I got
stuck driving the old station wagon geek mobile back when I started
driving.

In my opinion the first thing that needs to happen is the insurance
policies need to be rewritten so that one person can own two vehicles
without paying almost full load on two vehicles when they can only
drive one at a time.

I would LOVE to buy a small super fuel efficient car to drive back and
forth the work and to do errands in. I HAVE to have a vehicle capable
of towing and able to seat six in reasonable comfort. If I buy a
second car I am looking at $150 a month for insurance plus a payment
on the vehicle itself. If the new vehicle saves me 1/3 on my now $300
a month gasoline bill I am still hundreds in the hole at the end of
the month. End result.. I'm driving a full size vehicle back and
forth to work every day wasting gas.

Steve B.

"Steve B." wrote in message
Those that drive a SUV do
so because it was a hand me down from their parents much the way I got
stuck driving the old station wagon geek mobile back when I started
driving.

My son, now 35 and has owned a 3000GT, Trans-Am, Camero,, etc, but still
complains how difficult it was to drive a '71 Ford wagon when he was in high
school.

Bill wrote:
In the past, I would always use my pick-up truck for anything and
everything construction related. Even for going to the store and buying say
a 5 gallon can of something.

Yesterday I needed to go to the store and buy a bunch of construction
stuff....

I thought about it... I would not be buying anything long... hummm, maybe I
could fit it all in my 38 MPG hatchback car?

And I'll be darned if everything fit. Just barely made it, but I crammed it
all in there. So then I filled up with gas on way back (tank half full)...
$9.00, not bad!

I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....



I drive a large pickup truck because I am a general contractor
and I may need to haul, tow, etc. on a daily basis. Due to
the gas prices, I have often been riding my motorcycle to
work, only to discover that I need to move some tools to
another jobsite. I then drive all the way home to get my
truck and return to the jobsite (which may be 2-30 miles from
home.

I have found one silver lining in this gas price surge. 35
years ago, cowboys, ranchers and construction workers drove
trucks. They were fairly reasonable back then. No frills,
but you could get a good truck without taking out a second
mortgage on the house. Since everyone and their mother wants
trucks and SUVs now, the price of those vehicles have
skyrocketed. Typical construction workers can barely afford
to buy what they NEED to do their job.

Now that gas prices are shooting up, the demand will go down
and perhaps those of us who NEED those types of vehicles will
be able to afford them. I am constantly looking at trucks and
the first sign that demand was going down was the Chevy
employee discount on trucks. I am hoping that that trend
continues and that prices get back to reasonable levels.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

I think there will be a lot more thinking like that from now on. The
days of cheap gas are gone forever. The prices may go down some but not
much. It's time for all of us to start thinking sensibly.

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the auto-makers
need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of pumping out the
monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go back to the early 80's
when small cars were "cool".



The automakers will make anything that the public wants to buy. Last
time I was at the dealership no one held a gun to my head and said
that I must buy a gas guzzling SUV. They make the SUV because that is
what people are buying. All these dealerships also offer smaller more
fuel efficient vehicles (except hummer and perhaps a couple others).

Small cars are more "cool" now than they ever were. Most of the kids
want a Honda that they can soup up today. Those that drive a SUV do
so because it was a hand me down from their parents much the way I got
stuck driving the old station wagon geek mobile back when I started
driving.


Last time you were at the dealership did you see any cars with gas
mileage in the 50s or 60s with sticker prices under $13K? I doubt it.
Maybe if they had them people would buy them. Especially or kids. It
could be done and is done in other countries.

"J.C." wrote in
:


"Bill" wrote in message
...


I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....



Okay, that does it. I'm using my Vespa from now on.


--
J.C.



you could tow one of those little bicycle trailers! Or a side car! ;-)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

I have a 94 Ford Aspire that I am driving more and more. Besdes the
obvious fuel savings over the extended cab 3/4 ton Silverado, it is so
much easier to just zip right into parking spots rather than drive
around the parking lots trying to find a space the truck will fit. What
I can't figure out is not just the size of vehicles people are driving,
but the WAY they drive. I have a friend with a Lincoln Town Car, and I
am terrified to ride with him. He takes off from a light or stop sign
just short of burning rubber, goes one block to the next stop, and just
as you think he is not going to stop, slams on the brakes and stops in
about one car length. Besides the gas, he gets about 15K to a set of
brake pads. This isn't some dumb kid either. This guy is 66 y/o. His 30+
y/o son is even worse. I absolutely refuse to ride with him period. I
would bet that on average, people could get 3 more mpg if they tried. I
get about 13 on the Dodge van at work-- most of the others are getting
about 9-10. It has 70K on the original Michelins. Replaced the original
brake pads at 48K, back brakes original. The other's tires and brakes
are going just over half those mileages. Larry

On 5-Sep-2005, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:

Until recently, they were giving away the
efficient stuff and charging out the wazzoo for SUV's.

Giving away the efficient stuff? Have you ever priced the
fuel-efficient cars? They have always been sold at a
premium over regular cars. My high-efficiency Honda cost
$1000 over the price of the same car with a regular engine.
That was 13 years ago - still runs well and now I'm really
saving at the pump compared to others.

Check the VW TDI compared to thother VW models or the Prius
compared to the comparably equipped Toyotas. Fuel efficiency
has always come at a premium.

SUVs on the other hand were just sold as expensive. I never
understood why someone would pay a $5000+ premium over a
similarly equipped van.

Mike

User Example wrote:

Bill wrote:

In the past, I would always use my pick-up truck for anything and
everything construction related. Even for going to the store and
buying say
a 5 gallon can of something.

Yesterday I needed to go to the store and buy a bunch of construction
stuff....

I thought about it... I would not be buying anything long... hummm,
maybe I
could fit it all in my 38 MPG hatchback car?

And I'll be darned if everything fit. Just barely made it, but I
crammed it
all in there. So then I filled up with gas on way back (tank half
full)...
$9.00, not bad!

I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....


I think there will be a lot more thinking like that from now on. The
days of cheap gas are gone forever. The prices may go down some but not
much. It's time for all of us to start thinking sensibly.

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the auto-makers
need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of pumping out the
monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go back to the early 80's
when small cars were "cool".

They do make fuel efficient cars, but few buy them. This problem isn't
Detriot's or even Washington's, it is our problem. If you want to see
the cause of high fuel prices and shortages, just look in the mirror.

Matt

You are a liar.

$9.00 worth of gas to fill a tank? No way.

That is probably about 3 gallons to a maximum of 3.5 gallons to fill
half a tank. There are no hatchbacks in this country that only have
a 6 to 7 gallon tank.







On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:15:13 -0700, "Bill"
wrote:

In the past, I would always use my pick-up truck for anything and
everything construction related. Even for going to the store and buying say
a 5 gallon can of something.

Yesterday I needed to go to the store and buy a bunch of construction
stuff....

I thought about it... I would not be buying anything long... hummm, maybe I
could fit it all in my 38 MPG hatchback car?

And I'll be darned if everything fit. Just barely made it, but I crammed it
all in there. So then I filled up with gas on way back (tank half full)...
$9.00, not bad!

I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....

User Example wrote:


I think there will be a lot more thinking like that from now on. The
days of cheap gas are gone forever. The prices may go down some but
not much. It's time for all of us to start thinking sensibly.

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the
auto-makers need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of
pumping out the monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go
back to the early 80's when small cars were "cool".




The automakers will make anything that the public wants to buy. Last
time I was at the dealership no one held a gun to my head and said
that I must buy a gas guzzling SUV. They make the SUV because that is
what people are buying. All these dealerships also offer smaller more
fuel efficient vehicles (except hummer and perhaps a couple others).

Small cars are more "cool" now than they ever were. Most of the kids
want a Honda that they can soup up today. Those that drive a SUV do
so because it was a hand me down from their parents much the way I got
stuck driving the old station wagon geek mobile back when I started
driving.


Last time you were at the dealership did you see any cars with gas
mileage in the 50s or 60s with sticker prices under $13K? I doubt it.
Maybe if they had them people would buy them. Especially or kids. It
could be done and is done in other countries.

The Prius has the mileage, but not the price. However, your price is a
red herring as people have no problem paying $35K for an SUV so paying
$22K for a Prius isn't a problem.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:
User Example wrote:


I think there will be a lot more thinking like that from now on.
The days of cheap gas are gone forever. The prices may go down some
but not much. It's time for all of us to start thinking sensibly.

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the
auto-makers need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of
pumping out the monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go
back to the early 80's when small cars were "cool".





The automakers will make anything that the public wants to buy. Last
time I was at the dealership no one held a gun to my head and said
that I must buy a gas guzzling SUV. They make the SUV because that is
what people are buying. All these dealerships also offer smaller more
fuel efficient vehicles (except hummer and perhaps a couple others).

Small cars are more "cool" now than they ever were. Most of the kids
want a Honda that they can soup up today. Those that drive a SUV do
so because it was a hand me down from their parents much the way I got
stuck driving the old station wagon geek mobile back when I started
driving.


Last time you were at the dealership did you see any cars with gas
mileage in the 50s or 60s with sticker prices under $13K? I doubt it.
Maybe if they had them people would buy them. Especially or kids. It
could be done and is done in other countries.


The Prius has the mileage, but not the price. However, your price is a
red herring as people have no problem paying $35K for an SUV so paying
$22K for a Prius isn't a problem.

Matt

They pay 35K for the SUV because they think they are getting a $35K
car... but $22K for a prius which is about the same type of car you
normally pay $16K for? No way!

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
The Prius has the mileage, but not the price. However, your price is a
red herring as people have no problem paying $35K for an SUV so paying
$22K for a Prius isn't a problem.

Matt

Not a question of total dollars, but of perceived value. If the Prius was
equipped as a standard gasoline powered car, it would sell for about $15k or
$16k. For the same price as the Prius, I can buy a minimal model Buick
LeSabre and have lots more room and comfort.

Comes down to paying $22k for a $16k car just to be "green" and probably not
save a buck in the overall life of the car. Even at today's prices, there
is no payback for a long time. In 75,000 miles (assuming a 15 mpg gain)
you'd save 1125 gallons of gas, at 3.30 a gallon, only $3712. Not enough to
pay the difference in car cost.

Who said the tank was empty? Or close to empty?
Hell, I could go back to the gas station right now and fill up for
about $3 !!

User Example wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:

User Example wrote:


I think there will be a lot more thinking like that from now on.
The days of cheap gas are gone forever. The prices may go down
some but not much. It's time for all of us to start thinking
sensibly.

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the
auto-makers need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of
pumping out the monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go
back to the early 80's when small cars were "cool".






The automakers will make anything that the public wants to buy. Last
time I was at the dealership no one held a gun to my head and said
that I must buy a gas guzzling SUV. They make the SUV because that is
what people are buying. All these dealerships also offer smaller more
fuel efficient vehicles (except hummer and perhaps a couple others).

Small cars are more "cool" now than they ever were. Most of the kids
want a Honda that they can soup up today. Those that drive a SUV do
so because it was a hand me down from their parents much the way I got
stuck driving the old station wagon geek mobile back when I started
driving.


Last time you were at the dealership did you see any cars with gas
mileage in the 50s or 60s with sticker prices under $13K? I doubt
it. Maybe if they had them people would buy them. Especially or
kids. It could be done and is done in other countries.



The Prius has the mileage, but not the price. However, your price is
a red herring as people have no problem paying $35K for an SUV so
paying $22K for a Prius isn't a problem.

Matt


They pay 35K for the SUV because they think they are getting a $35K
car... but $22K for a prius which is about the same type of car you
normally pay $16K for? No way!

Then you really don't care about fuel prices and availability so fill up
your SUV and be quiet.

Matt

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message

The Prius has the mileage, but not the price. However, your price is a
red herring as people have no problem paying $35K for an SUV so paying
$22K for a Prius isn't a problem.

Matt


Not a question of total dollars, but of perceived value. If the Prius was
equipped as a standard gasoline powered car, it would sell for about $15k or
$16k. For the same price as the Prius, I can buy a minimal model Buick
LeSabre and have lots more room and comfort.

Comes down to paying $22k for a $16k car just to be "green" and probably not
save a buck in the overall life of the car. Even at today's prices, there
is no payback for a long time. In 75,000 miles (assuming a 15 mpg gain)
you'd save 1125 gallons of gas, at 3.30 a gallon, only $3712. Not enough to
pay the difference in car cost.

And that is the reason that Detriot doesn't make cars that get 55-60
MPG. The technology required is very expensive. However, that will
change over time and as fuel costs get to $5+ per gallon, the pay back
economics will change.


Matt

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In the past, I would always use my pick-up truck for anything and
everything construction related. Even for going to the store and buying
say
a 5 gallon can of something.

Yesterday I needed to go to the store and buy a bunch of construction
stuff....

I thought about it... I would not be buying anything long... hummm, maybe
I
could fit it all in my 38 MPG hatchback car?

And I'll be darned if everything fit. Just barely made it, but I crammed
it
all in there. So then I filled up with gas on way back (tank half full)...
$9.00, not bad!

I think I'll use the car whenever possible from now on....

So, was this You??
http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Overload.htm

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
The Prius has the mileage, but not the price. However, your price is a
red herring as people have no problem paying $35K for an SUV so paying
$22K for a Prius isn't a problem.

Matt

Not a question of total dollars, but of perceived value. If the Prius was
equipped as a standard gasoline powered car, it would sell for about $15k
or $16k. For the same price as the Prius, I can buy a minimal model Buick
LeSabre and have lots more room and comfort.

Comes down to paying $22k for a $16k car just to be "green" and probably
not save a buck in the overall life of the car. Even at today's prices,
there is no payback for a long time. In 75,000 miles (assuming a 15 mpg
gain) you'd save 1125 gallons of gas, at 3.30 a gallon, only $3712. Not
enough to pay the difference in car cost.

Yes, but your normal car depreciates to maybe %60 of it's sale price withiin
a few years. A Prius may retain 90%. There's several thousands in savings
right there. People right now are selling used Prius for more than they
paid, and that was long before this hurricane hit.

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:07:41 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"User Example" wrote in message

Of course, the first thing that needs to happen is that the auto-makers
need to start making fuel efficient cars instead of pumping out the
monster SUVs, and double cab pickups. Time to go back to the early 80's
when small cars were "cool".

They will make them but in the past few years, no one was buying them.
Attitudes have to change as you point out that small cars can be "cool"

The attitudes will change all by themselves. No need to call out the PC
Police.

I'm doing my best. I'm only driving down hill from no on.

Alternatively, you can put larger wheels on the back and small ones on the
front. Then you'll always be going down hill.

--
Keith

"tomkanpa" wrote in message
oups.com...
Who said the tank was empty? Or close to empty?
Hell, I could go back to the gas station right now and fill up for
about $3 !!


He said "half". If it was truly half a tank on any car, do the math.

"keith" wrote in message

Alternatively, you can put larger wheels on the back and small ones on the
front. Then you'll always be going down hill.

Not needed. Wife says I've been going down hill for past few years.

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:13:07 +0000, Robert Allison wrote:

I have found one silver lining in this gas price surge. 35
years ago, cowboys, ranchers and construction workers drove
trucks. They were fairly reasonable back then. No frills,
but you could get a good truck without taking out a second
mortgage on the house. Since everyone and their mother wants
trucks and SUVs now, the price of those vehicles have
skyrocketed. Typical construction workers can barely afford
to buy what they NEED to do their job.

You can still buy "work trucks". They may not be sitting on the showroom
floor, but they can be ordered. OTOH, I see them all the time in the
Boston and NYC papers as bait.

Now that gas prices are shooting up, the demand will go down and perhaps
those of us who NEED those types of vehicles will be able to afford
them. I am constantly looking at trucks and the first sign that demand
was going down was the Chevy employee discount on trucks. I am hoping
that that trend continues and that prices get back to reasonable levels.

Do you NEED fancy interriors? Power windows/locks? AC? 4WD? Work
trucks are available for about 60% of what the weekend-warrior pays for a
car replacement. Though when my son grew up and I no longer needed two
"cars" (or minivans) I bought a small pickup. As a weekend warrior myself,
I like to be able to fetch a sheet of plywood (or snowblower , or take
stuff to the dump. I also like some of the creature comforts of a car.

--
Keith

--
Keith

Yes, but your normal car depreciates to maybe %60 of it's sale price withiin
a few years. A Prius may retain 90%. There's several thousands in savings
right there. People right now are selling used Prius for more than they
paid, and that was long before this hurricane hit.


So far the Prius is holding value very well. BUT.. that same Prius
is going to need a very expensive battery replacement in a few years
time. We are talking thousands of dollars.

I think the hybrids are a good idea and am glad to see them selling
well because those sales will encourage the auto companies to continue
to improve the technology and develop more technologies to save
energy. For my dollar though I would choose something like a VW
diesel that gets the same if not better gas mileage without all the
unknowns of future battery cost.

Steve B.

FDR wrote:
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message

The Prius has the mileage, but not the price. However, your price is a
red herring as people have no problem paying $35K for an SUV so paying
$22K for a Prius isn't a problem.

Matt

Not a question of total dollars, but of perceived value. If the Prius was
equipped as a standard gasoline powered car, it would sell for about $15k
or $16k. For the same price as the Prius, I can buy a minimal model Buick
LeSabre and have lots more room and comfort.

Comes down to paying $22k for a $16k car just to be "green" and probably
not save a buck in the overall life of the car. Even at today's prices,
there is no payback for a long time. In 75,000 miles (assuming a 15 mpg
gain) you'd save 1125 gallons of gas, at 3.30 a gallon, only $3712. Not
enough to pay the difference in car cost.


Yes, but your normal car depreciates to maybe %60 of it's sale price withiin
a few years. A Prius may retain 90%. There's several thousands in savings
right there. People right now are selling used Prius for more than they
paid, and that was long before this hurricane hit.


I doubt it considering the batteries probably only last about 10 years
and then you have to spend several thousand dollars to replace them.

"Steve B." wrote in message
...



So far the Prius is holding value very well. BUT.. that same Prius
is going to need a very expensive battery replacement in a few years
time. We are talking thousands of dollars.



Yep, what do you think a ten year old Prius needing batteries is worth! Not
much is my bet!
Greg

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:24:01 -0500, "Greg O"
wrote:

"Steve B." wrote in message
.. .



So far the Prius is holding value very well. BUT.. that same Prius
is going to need a very expensive battery replacement in a few years
time. We are talking thousands of dollars.



Yep, what do you think a ten year old Prius needing batteries is worth! Not
much is my bet!
Greg


I don't think it will be anywhere near ten years. Most things I own
with rechargeable batteries show noticeable loss of power after three
years and have to be replaced by five years. I could be all wet on
this subject, just would not be willing to gamble my money on it.

Steve B.

Steve B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:24:01 -0500, "Greg O"
wrote:


"Steve B." wrote in message
. ..

So far the Prius is holding value very well. BUT.. that same Prius
is going to need a very expensive battery replacement in a few years
time. We are talking thousands of dollars.



Yep, what do you think a ten year old Prius needing batteries is worth! Not
much is my bet!
Greg



I don't think it will be anywhere near ten years. Most things I own
with rechargeable batteries show noticeable loss of power after three
years and have to be replaced by five years. I could be all wet on
this subject, just would not be willing to gamble my money on it.

Steve B.

You could be right but the warranty for the batteries is 10 years from
what I understand.

"keith" wrote in message

You can still buy "work trucks". They may not be sitting on the showroom
floor, but they can be ordered. OTOH, I see them all the time in the
Boston and NYC papers as bait.

Last time we bought one for our shop it was difficult to find one. No
dealer had one, few were even interesting in ordering a low profit model but
one did when he realized it was that or nothing. It has no AC, standard
trans, no options at all, but does haul what we need and only put on 5,000
miles a year. Most trips are about a mile so we don't need the fancy
options that our cars have.

Steve B. wrote:

Yes, but your normal car depreciates to maybe %60 of it's sale price withiin
a few years. A Prius may retain 90%. There's several thousands in savings
right there. People right now are selling used Prius for more than they
paid, and that was long before this hurricane hit.



So far the Prius is holding value very well. BUT.. that same Prius
is going to need a very expensive battery replacement in a few years
time. We are talking thousands of dollars.

I think the hybrids are a good idea and am glad to see them selling
well because those sales will encourage the auto companies to continue
to improve the technology and develop more technologies to save
energy. For my dollar though I would choose something like a VW
diesel that gets the same if not better gas mileage without all the
unknowns of future battery cost.

That was my conclusion also ... until I tried to find a VW diesel this
weekend. I live in PA, right near the NY border. I found out that NY
doesn't allow diesel cars to be sold in the state (for emissions reasons
the dealer told me), but you can buy big honking 3/4 ton diesel pickups.
Only in NY ... well, and CA.

I then drove to the dealer in PA, and he just laughed when I asked about
availability of diesels. He politely said I'd have to take a number and
wait in a long line. The local Toyota dealer has Prius' on the lot.


Matt

User Example wrote:

Steve B. wrote:

On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:24:01 -0500, "Greg O"
wrote:


"Steve B." wrote in message
...

So far the Prius is holding value very well. BUT.. that same Prius
is going to need a very expensive battery replacement in a few years
time. We are talking thousands of dollars.



Yep, what do you think a ten year old Prius needing batteries is
worth! Not much is my bet!
Greg



I don't think it will be anywhere near ten years. Most things I own
with rechargeable batteries show noticeable loss of power after three
years and have to be replaced by five years. I could be all wet on
this subject, just would not be willing to gamble my money on it.

Steve B.


You could be right but the warranty for the batteries is 10 years from
what I understand.

I was at a Toyota dealer on Saturday and was told 8 years or 100,000 miles.

Matt

On 9/5/2005 6:26 PM US(ET), Matt Whiting took fingers to keys, and typed
the following:

Steve B. wrote:

Yes, but your normal car depreciates to maybe %60 of it's sale price
withiin a few years. A Prius may retain 90%. There's several
thousands in savings right there. People right now are selling used
Prius for more than they paid, and that was long before this
hurricane hit.



So far the Prius is holding value very well. BUT.. that same Prius
is going to need a very expensive battery replacement in a few years
time. We are talking thousands of dollars.

I think the hybrids are a good idea and am glad to see them selling
well because those sales will encourage the auto companies to continue
to improve the technology and develop more technologies to save
energy. For my dollar though I would choose something like a VW
diesel that gets the same if not better gas mileage without all the
unknowns of future battery cost.


That was my conclusion also ... until I tried to find a VW diesel this
weekend. I live in PA, right near the NY border. I found out that NY
doesn't allow diesel cars to be sold in the state (for emissions
reasons the dealer told me), but you can buy big honking 3/4 ton
diesel pickups. Only in NY ... well, and CA.


BS! Where did you find out that NY doesn't allow diesel cars to be sold
in NY?
If you want to buy a diesel automobile in NY, go to any Mercedes or VW
dealer.


I then drove to the dealer in PA, and he just laughed when I asked
about availability of diesels. He politely said I'd have to take a
number and wait in a long line. The local Toyota dealer has Prius' on
the lot.


Matt



--
Bill

willshak wrote:


BS! Where did you find out that NY doesn't allow diesel cars to be sold
in NY?
If you want to buy a diesel automobile in NY, go to any Mercedes or VW
dealer.


NY is one of the CARB states that has adopted California emission
requirements. You cannot buy a *new* diesel car in NY state because none
of them meet the emission requirements.




I then drove to the dealer in PA, and he just laughed when I asked
about availability of diesels. He politely said I'd have to take a
number and wait in a long line. The local Toyota dealer has Prius' on
the lot.








Matt