While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil. Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg

Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?

On 7/21/18 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil. Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg

Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?


I'm wondering what the plumbing strap is for.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 1:57:42 AM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:
On 7/21/18 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil. Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg

Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?


I'm wondering what the plumbing strap is for.


While that was not included in the quiz, I'll honor the question. ;-)

It is nothing more than the suspenders, no pun intended. The belt is the
double 2 x 4 that supports the front of the loft. At the time of the build
(3+ decades ago) I didn't know enough to be sure that that would be enough
to support to the 11' loft without sagging over time or when I climbed on
top to get stuff from the back.

There is a slight bow in the strap and when I hang on the front of the loft
it does straighten out somewhat, but I can't say for sure if it has ever
actually been under tension.

It is probably unnecessary, but it's been there for so long that I've just
gotten used to it. Maybe as part of the garage clean up, I'll take it down,
but I won't throw it away. As soon as I do, I'll realize that I want to hang
something from it. ;-)

On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
....

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?

Since the shelves are supported at the rear by the ledger you could do
without the rear vertical leg but it would look peculiar, yes.

--

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 2:07:14 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?

Since the shelves are supported at the rear by the ledger you could do
without the rear vertical leg but it would look peculiar, yes.

--

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 8:17:50 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 2:07:14 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?

Since the shelves are supported at the rear by the ledger you could do
without the rear vertical leg but it would look peculiar, yes.

--

Where do I send the cigar?

On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil. Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg


Cool!


Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?


Top right rail. Now if you had used SU you might have added a corner
leg where the side and back wall intersect. ;~)

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 11:13:12 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil. Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg


Cool!

Thanks. The previous storage "system" was a mis-matched set of whatever
POS entertainment center, shelf unit and old cabinet that I just sort of
ended up with over the years. It was time to clean the garage anyway, so
I figured I would start from scratch.




Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?


Top right rail.

Not if you are referring to the 9" 2x4 with the nail in it. That has a
purpose: Hanging brooms, etc. as mentioned in the OP.

Now if you had used SU you might have added a corner
leg where the side and back wall intersect. ;~)

Why?

The ledgers support the back corner and the front rails support the front
corner. The 8' back shelves span the T joint, tying it all together. The
floating corners serve both form and function.

https://i.imgur.com/QmnSJcA.jpg

BTW...the ledgers are strips of plywood left over from this project as well
as a few left over from the bookcase project. Waste not, want not. ;-)

On 7/22/2018 12:01 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 11:13:12 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil. Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg


Cool!

Thanks. The previous storage "system" was a mis-matched set of whatever
POS entertainment center, shelf unit and old cabinet that I just sort of
ended up with over the years. It was time to clean the garage anyway, so
I figured I would start from scratch.




Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?


Top right rail.

Not if you are referring to the 9" 2x4 with the nail in it. That has a
purpose: Hanging brooms, etc. as mentioned in the OP.

Actually the right back rail against the wall at the top. The lower
shelves had narrower rails on the wall.




Now if you had used SU you might have added a corner
leg where the side and back wall intersect. ;~)

Why?

To prevent sag. I put up some shelves in a closet very similar to your
layout. The corners sagged after being loaded. I added a leg near the
corner.

If your right outer rails bow from weight, this will also allow the left
outer rails to sag close to the intersection. And this may never be an
issue but the good news is that if they do, it is an easy fix.

In my store room I used a 2x4 to come down from what would be ceiling
joints and attach to each shelf but did not go lower than the bottom
shelf. Same effect as your strapping that is hanging down but went down
to attach to each shelf. Keeps the bottom open for easier access.





The ledgers support the back corner and the front rails support the front
corner. The 8' back shelves span the T joint, tying it all together. The
floating corners serve both form and function.

https://i.imgur.com/QmnSJcA.jpg

BTW...the ledgers are strips of plywood left over from this project as well
as a few left over from the bookcase project. Waste not, want not. ;-)

On 7/22/2018 3:05 PM, Leon wrote:
On 7/22/2018 12:01 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 11:13:12 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil.
Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil
go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything
else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved
was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and
similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg


Cool!

Thanks. The previous storage "system" was a mis-matched set of whatever
POS entertainment center, shelf unit and old cabinet that I just sort of
ended up with over the years. It was time to clean the garage anyway, so
I figured I would start from scratch.




Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was
added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?


Top right rail.

Not if you are referring to the 9" 2x4 with the nail in it. That has a
purpose: Hanging brooms, etc. as mentioned in the OP.

Actually the right back rail against the wall at the top.Â* The lower
shelves had narrower rails on the wall.
....

I hadn't even noticed it being there; maybe framed that box and set it
up there and that's a construction aid only?


Now if you had used SU you might have added a corner
leg where the side and back wall intersect.Â* ;~)

Why?

To prevent sag.Â* I put up some shelves in a closet very similar to your
layout.Â* The corners sagged after being loaded.Â* I added a leg near the
corner.
....

I think that likely will be an issue with time unless the loading is
pretty minimal weight. The similar construct in the basement change
room here is 3' deep instead of what looks like about 2' here and it has
oneby inside corners going up the faces; the shelves on it are inset
around the verticals.

It has a base kickboard like cabinets at the bottom so the bottom shelf
is 3" off the floor...

On the corner support here, I've not ever actually done it but a way to
leave minimal obstruction would be similar to the plumbing strap but use
aircraft cable or a small diameter rod instead of full-scale
construction dimensions. With the rear top shelf here being wider than
the lowers, there isn't a straight shot up the corner all the way to the
ceiling; would have to go thru the top shelf to do that which likely
is/would be inconvenient.

All in all, however, undoubtedly a much-needed improvement!

--


--

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 5:29:30 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 7/22/2018 3:05 PM, Leon wrote:
On 7/22/2018 12:01 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 11:13:12 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil.
Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil
go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything
else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved
was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and
similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg


Cool!

Thanks. The previous storage "system" was a mis-matched set of whatever
POS entertainment center, shelf unit and old cabinet that I just sort of
ended up with over the years. It was time to clean the garage anyway, so
I figured I would start from scratch.




Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was
added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?


Top right rail.

Not if you are referring to the 9" 2x4 with the nail in it. That has a
purpose: Hanging brooms, etc. as mentioned in the OP.

Actually the right back rail against the wall at the top.Â* The lower
shelves had narrower rails on the wall.
...

I hadn't even noticed it being there; maybe framed that box and set it
up there and that's a construction aid only?


Now if you had used SU you might have added a corner
leg where the side and back wall intersect.Â* ;~)

Why?

To prevent sag.Â* I put up some shelves in a closet very similar to your
layout.Â* The corners sagged after being loaded.Â* I added a leg near the
corner.
...

I think that likely will be an issue with time unless the loading is
pretty minimal weight. The similar construct in the basement change
room here is 3' deep instead of what looks like about 2' here and it has
oneby inside corners going up the faces; the shelves on it are inset
around the verticals.


16" on the side, 20" along the back. There won't be too much weight, it's
basically household stuff, camping gear, a bunch of my power tools that
won't fit in the shop, etc.

It has a base kickboard like cabinets at the bottom so the bottom shelf
is 3" off the floor...

I wanted to do that, but I really wanted two shelves that the 18 gal bins
could fit on (16.5" clearance) and two 12" for my tools and those plastic
crates. With the loft already in place, I was forced the use 2x3's as rails
and the floor as the bottom "shelf". I should have planned ahead when I built
the loft 3 decades ago. ;-)


On the corner support here, I've not ever actually done it but a way to
leave minimal obstruction would be similar to the plumbing strap but use
aircraft cable or a small diameter rod instead of full-scale
construction dimensions. With the rear top shelf here being wider than
the lowers, there isn't a straight shot up the corner all the way to the
ceiling; would have to go thru the top shelf to do that which likely
is/would be inconvenient.

The loft is 36" deep. I would attach a 2-by to the underside, like an extra
joist, and hang the cable from that. I'm sure the loft could provide enough
support to eliminate any sag.



All in all, however, undoubtedly a much-needed improvement!


Tru dat!

And an excuse to clean out the crap that collected over the years. I've got
things going on Craigslist (free and for sale), stuff going in the trash,
electronics to be recycled, etc. Not everything that went out into the
driveway is coming back in, and what is will be a lot more organized, at
least for a short while. ;-)

On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 4:06:05 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/22/2018 12:01 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, July 22, 2018 at 11:13:12 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/21/2018 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
While you guys have been figuring out how to use SketchUp and bickering
about which operating system is best, I've been making sawdust. ;-)

I built this old fashioned way: with a tape measure and a pencil. Well, OK
a couple of tape measures and "Hey! Where the hell did that pencil go now?"

The loft along the back wall has been there for years. Everything else was
designed and built today, on the fly. The only "computer" involved was my
phone playing a whole lot of Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan and similar
artists on a Bluetooth speaker. ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg


Cool!

Thanks. The previous storage "system" was a mis-matched set of whatever
POS entertainment center, shelf unit and old cabinet that I just sort of
ended up with over the years. It was time to clean the garage anyway, so
I figured I would start from scratch.




Pop Quiz:

There a single piece of wood that serves no actual purpose. It was added for
purely aesthetic reasons.

(It's not the short 2x4 on the upper right. That will be used to hang
seasonal yard equipment, e.g. brooms or snow shovels. I'll probably
finish off all the ends of the shelves in that section. It'll look more
solid/finished.)

OK, so where's unnecessary piece of "structure"?


Top right rail.

Not if you are referring to the 9" 2x4 with the nail in it. That has a
purpose: Hanging brooms, etc. as mentioned in the OP.

Actually the right back rail against the wall at the top. The lower
shelves had narrower rails on the wall.

Oh...the ledger for the top shelf. That one is both structural and
aesthetic, as are all the 2x4's for the top shelf. The loft has 2x4
framing so I carried that "bulkiness" around to the side just for the
top shelf.



Now if you had used SU you might have added a corner
leg where the side and back wall intersect. ;~)

Why?

To prevent sag. I put up some shelves in a closet very similar to your
layout. The corners sagged after being loaded. I added a leg near the
corner.

What do you store in your closets? Old truck rotors? ;-)


If your right outer rails bow from weight, this will also allow the left
outer rails to sag close to the intersection. And this may never be an
issue but the good news is that if they do, it is an easy fix.

Just for fun, I did a test.

This is 90 pounds of Soap Box Derby weights:

https://i.imgur.com/WQijSyd.jpg

This is the shelf height before the weight was applied:

https://i.imgur.com/h5AYumU.jpg

This is the shelf height after:

https://i.imgur.com/ZgvkNb4.jpg

I guess that's about 3/32" sag. Granted, it would probably get worse over
time, but then again, I doubt I'll ever have 90 pounds concentrated on the
front rail, smack in the middle of the shelf's run. ;-)

You are right, the possible of sag certainly exists, and I do like your idea
of suspending the support from above. I'll keep that in mind.


In my store room I used a 2x4 to come down from what would be ceiling
joints and attach to each shelf but did not go lower than the bottom
shelf. Same effect as your strapping that is hanging down but went down
to attach to each shelf. Keeps the bottom open for easier access.





The ledgers support the back corner and the front rails support the front
corner. The 8' back shelves span the T joint, tying it all together. The
floating corners serve both form and function.

https://i.imgur.com/QmnSJcA.jpg

BTW...the ledgers are strips of plywood left over from this project as well
as a few left over from the bookcase project. Waste not, want not. ;-)