That's it! I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people. No more, for me.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 7:38:27 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
That's it! I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people. No more, for me.



Good for you...as long as you can afford to pass up the work.

If you really want to see some shortcuts, check out student housing. Even
the really "nice" places, those that command the higher rents, are held
together with Harbor Freight chewing gum.

On 2/7/18 8:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 7:38:27 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
That's it! I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people. No more, for me.



Good for you...as long as you can afford to pass up the work.

If you really want to see some shortcuts, check out student housing. Even
the really "nice" places, those that command the higher rents, are held
together with Harbor Freight chewing gum.


"Harbor Freight chewing gum." LMAO!!
Good one.

I lived in a college town for 15 years... I've seen it all. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 11:10:36 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/7/18 8:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 7:38:27 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
That's it! I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people. No more, for me.



Good for you...as long as you can afford to pass up the work.

If you really want to see some shortcuts, check out student housing. Even
the really "nice" places, those that command the higher rents, are held
together with Harbor Freight chewing gum.


"Harbor Freight chewing gum." LMAO!!
Good one.

I lived in a college town for 15 years... I've seen it all. :-)

Have you seen a U shaped dining room table? I don't mean U shaped on the horizontal
plane, I mean U shaped *vertically*.

My daughter lived in an apartment where they build a short wall on one side of the
living room to create a "dining room" area. Picture a booth at a diner. One bench on the
real wall, one bench on the short wall, with a long table in between. You could sit 4 people
on each side so you get an idea of how long the table was.

They built the table out of particle board with a ledger board on one end and a couple of
legs on the other. No support along the length. Over the years the center had sunk down so
much that you could see the slant on outer legs. One of the more ingenious residents put a large
wooden cutting board in the middle of the table as sort of a bridge to create flat area. You could literally see the slant in a cup of liquid.

Trust me, there was lots of spilt beer on that table. The would have to lift up the cutting
board to clean up all the liquid that pooled in the gully.

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 22:10:32 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 2/7/18 8:13 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 7:38:27 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
That's it! I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people. No more, for me.



Good for you...as long as you can afford to pass up the work.

If you really want to see some shortcuts, check out student housing. Even
the really "nice" places, those that command the higher rents, are held
together with Harbor Freight chewing gum.


"Harbor Freight chewing gum." LMAO!!
Good one.

I lived in a college town for 15 years... I've seen it all. :-)

I grew up in a college town and moved to another a decade ago (though
only lived there for three years). The college population of the
second was about half the total population and about tree times on
football Sunday. They're certainly amazing places to live.

-MIKE- wrote:
That's it! I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people. No more, for me.



They have a lot of work to be offered. I would not turn them down, I
would simply give them a price you are comfortable with, no compromising
your integrity.

On 2/7/18 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
That's it! I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people. No more, for me.



They have a lot of work to be offered. I would not turn them down, I
would simply give them a price you are comfortable with, no compromising
your integrity.


Yeah, I guess there's always that. I can quote a price, if they don't
bite... fine.
But man, it gets old dealing with the rolling eyes.
I had something in the music business I balled the B:B ratio. Bull****
to benefit.
Sometimes there's just way to much bull**** that outweighs the benefit.

I guess for these types of clients I'll break out my favorite motto...
"I may be slow, but at least I'm expensive." :-D

I guess I just had to vent.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/8/2018 12:50 AM, -MIKE- wrote:


Yeah, I guess there's always that.Â* I can quote a price, if they don't
bite... fine.
But man, it gets old dealing with the rolling eyes.
I had something in the music business I balled the B:B ratio.Â* Bull****
to benefit.
Sometimes there's just way to much bull**** that outweighs the benefit.

I guess for these types of clients I'll break out my favorite motto...
"I may be slow, but at least I'm expensive."Â*Â*Â* :-D

I guess I just had to vent.


I understand, your B:B ratio, it is not just construction, it is most
every business. There are times it is best to walk away.
I remember one customer calling me to say my quote had an error. It was
something like:
1000 pcs $1.00 each
2000 pcs $1.50 each
5000 pcs $2.00 each
He ordered 1000 and found a new supplier.

Ed Pawlowski on Thu, 8 Feb 2018 10:41:57 -0500 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On 2/8/2018 12:50 AM, -MIKE- wrote:


Yeah, I guess there's always that.* I can quote a price, if they don't
bite... fine.
But man, it gets old dealing with the rolling eyes.
I had something in the music business I balled the B:B ratio.* Bull****
to benefit.
Sometimes there's just way to much bull**** that outweighs the benefit.

I guess for these types of clients I'll break out my favorite motto...
"I may be slow, but at least I'm expensive."*** :-D

I guess I just had to vent.


I understand, your B:B ratio, it is not just construction, it is most
every business. There are times it is best to walk away.
I remember one customer calling me to say my quote had an error. It was
something like:
1000 pcs $1.00 each
2000 pcs $1.50 each
5000 pcs $2.00 each
He ordered 1000 and found a new supplier.

I recall a story of a hotel chain wanting to decorate with a
"Tropical" theme, and commissioned a coconut carving for a prototype.
"No problem - Ten bucks."
They like the guys work, then say "We'd like a buttload more." He
said " Okay 15, each."
They wanted to know why he was charging so much, and he said, "the
first one is fun. After that, it becomes work."
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On 2/8/18 11:31 AM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Ed Pawlowski on Thu, 8 Feb 2018 10:41:57 -0500 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On 2/8/2018 12:50 AM, -MIKE- wrote:


Yeah, I guess there's always that.Â* I can quote a price, if they don't
bite... fine.
But man, it gets old dealing with the rolling eyes.
I had something in the music business I balled the B:B ratio.Â* Bull****
to benefit.
Sometimes there's just way to much bull**** that outweighs the benefit.

I guess for these types of clients I'll break out my favorite motto...
"I may be slow, but at least I'm expensive."Â*Â*Â* :-D

I guess I just had to vent.


I understand, your B:B ratio, it is not just construction, it is most
every business. There are times it is best to walk away.
I remember one customer calling me to say my quote had an error. It was
something like:
1000 pcs $1.00 each
2000 pcs $1.50 each
5000 pcs $2.00 each
He ordered 1000 and found a new supplier.

I recall a story of a hotel chain wanting to decorate with a
"Tropical" theme, and commissioned a coconut carving for a prototype.
"No problem - Ten bucks."
They like the guys work, then say "We'd like a buttload more." He
said " Okay 15, each."
They wanted to know why he was charging so much, and he said, "the
first one is fun. After that, it becomes work."


Absolutely!!
That's how it is on many projects I've done. I take on lots of builds
simply because I've never done one before. When those clients say, "Oh,
we'll tell all our friends about you and your work." I always reply,
"That's awesome, just don't tell them what I charged." :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/7/2018 11:50 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/7/18 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
That's it!Â* I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options.Â* I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people.Â* No more, for me.



They have a lot of work to be offered.Â*Â* I would not turn them down,Â* I
would simply give them a price you are comfortable with, no compromising
your integrity.


Yeah, I guess there's always that.Â* I can quote a price, if they don't
bite... fine.

Exactly and FWIW I helped a buddy do this type work for about 5 years
and we found that if there was a job we really did not want to do, too
many days to complete, he would bid high. And oddly his high bid often won.

But man, it gets old dealing with the rolling eyes.

You have to educate them.


I had something in the music business I balled the B:B ratio.Â* Bull****
to benefit.
Sometimes there's just way to much bull**** that outweighs the benefit.

And that is when you bid really high. ;~)




I guess for these types of clients I'll break out my favorite motto...
"I may be slow, but at least I'm expensive."Â*Â*Â* :-D

When I ran the Oldsmobile service department in downtown Houston, many
years ago, I had a young service advisor that put me on the spot one
after noon. Actually I was pretty young too, 29. Anyway he introduced
me to a young lady customer of his and told me that she was having no
luck with getting her vehicle repaired at the other Old's dealerships.
The three of us were standing on the service drive when he told me again
what he told her. Ms. So'n'so you can have confidence that we will get
to the bottom of the problem and fix your car even if it takes every
penny you have! WHATTTTTTTT. They both busted out laughing, they were
dating and decided to pull one over on me. I fondly tell that story
over and over.



I guess I just had to vent.


No harm in that.

On 2/8/18 10:23 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/7/2018 11:50 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/7/18 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:

Yeah, I guess there's always that.Â* I can quote a price, if they don't
bite... fine.

Exactly and FWIW I helped a buddy do this type work for about 5 years
and we found that if there was a job we really did not want to do, too
many days to complete, he would bid high.Â* And oddly his high bid often
won.


I'm starting a big deck repair job next week which is probably too big
for one guy... or at least 2 guys would get it done in 1/4-1/3 of the
time it would take one guy.

There's another drummer I know in town who does incredible deck work.
He's been trying to get me to go in on some jobs with him because he's a
one-man-band, like me.
So I figured this was a good job to use as a guinea pig for
collaboration. We are both ship captain types, so we'll see how it goes
working together.

Since he does so much deck work so I told him to take the lead and he
said he'd spec out the materials and pricing. He said he thought it
would take the two us us 3 days to do the job and asked me what I thought.
I said, "My guts says we can do it 2, but it always takes me twice as
long as I think to do something." I told him, "Why don't you quote it
for the 4-day price and if he balks you can always say, 'Let me see if I
can crunch the numbers some more and I'll get back to you,' and then we
can quote him the 3-day price and we're still good." He thought that
was brilliant.
The client readily accepted the 4-day price, so we ended up with plenty
of headroom for this gig.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/8/2018 11:04 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/8/18 10:23 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/7/2018 11:50 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/7/18 11:34 PM, Leon wrote:

Yeah, I guess there's always that.Â* I can quote a price, if they
don't bite... fine.

Exactly and FWIW I helped a buddy do this type work for about 5 years
and we found that if there was a job we really did not want to do, too
many days to complete, he would bid high.Â* And oddly his high bid
often won.


I'm starting a big deck repair job next week which is probably too big
for one guy... or at least 2 guys would get it done in 1/4-1/3 of the
time it would take one guy.

There's another drummer I know in town who does incredible deck work.
He's been trying to get me to go in on some jobs with him because he's a
one-man-band, like me.
So I figured this was a good job to use as a guinea pig for
collaboration.Â* We are both ship captain types, so we'll see how it goes
working together.

Since he does so much deck work so I told him to take the lead and he
said he'd spec out the materials and pricing.Â* He said he thought it
would take the two us us 3 days to do the job and asked me what I thought.
I said, "My guts says we can do it 2, but it always takes me twice as
long as I think to do something."Â* I told him, "Why don't you quote it
for the 4-day price and if he balks you can always say, 'Let me see if I
can crunch the numbers some more and I'll get back to you,' and then we
can quote him the 3-day price and we're still good."Â* He thought that
was brilliant.
The client readily accepted the 4-day price, so we ended up with plenty
of headroom for this gig.




There is something about a high quote that equates to quality of work...
I would say to do your best and it is likely you will get more work
out of this. Noting better than word of mouth.
And it is more fun working along side some one that is at least equal to
you in talent.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet on Thu, 8 Feb 2018 10:23:42 -0600 typed
in rec.woodworking the following:


I guess for these types of clients I'll break out my favorite motto...
"I may be slow, but at least I'm expensive."*** :-D

When I ran the Oldsmobile service department in downtown Houston, many
years ago, I had a young service advisor that put me on the spot one
after noon. Actually I was pretty young too, 29. Anyway he introduced
me to a young lady customer of his and told me that she was having no
luck with getting her vehicle repaired at the other Old's dealerships.
The three of us were standing on the service drive when he told me again
what he told her. Ms. So'n'so you can have confidence that we will get
to the bottom of the problem and fix your car even if it takes every
penny you have! WHATTTTTTTT. They both busted out laughing, they were
dating and decided to pull one over on me. I fondly tell that story
over and over.

How true. LOL.


Sigh, on the other hand - nothing like being told "Bill Gates
couldn't save this cat." Sometimes it is not a question of money, but
of reality.

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?

On 2/7/2018 5:38 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
That's it!Â* I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options.Â* I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people.Â* No more, for me.




HA! I put a fire alarm in commercial building once for the owner. The
realtor (building manager) blamed me for everything. Sprinklers didn't
work. Automatic lights. Whatever. Worse I get called over to check it
out, and nobody knew anything and nobody could let me into anywhere. I
finally told her to stop calling me to trouble shoot all her problems
for free, becaus ethe fire alarm passed inspection and works perfectly.
The rest is just manipulating me to get free labor. The very next day I
got a call from the building owner telling me his building manager had
said he would be better off getting another alarm company. Irene Crites
(Crites and Associates) was the building manager, just in case you are
ever in Yuma. I am sure she is an absolute doll to work for and it was
just me. LOL.

Hmmmm. Guess I am lucky, or special. I've never done a construction job where I did not do it right. On the paying jobs I've done, I always said this is what I am going to do and this is what it will cost. No discussion or arguing to that. On the non paying jobs I just say this is what it costs for the parts and my labor of course is donated. There is no arguing over the parts.



On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 6:38:27 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
That's it! I'm sick of it.
I am now going to ask the question, "Are you the owner/occupier of this
property" before taking on any more repair work.
I've had it with realtors and landlords who not only want you to use a
band-aid fix for everything, but they want you to buy the band-aids at
BigLots.

I finally told one, today, "You know, someone has to live here, right?"
She kept asking me which of the two repair options I would guarantee for
longer.
I actually chuckled and replied, "Oh, I'm not guaranteeing either of
these options. I'll guarantee the work if you let me do it right."

They're trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a house they'll get
$2500 a month for in rent or make 50 grand on the sale.

One realtor asked me, "Why won't you just do it the way I want you to do
it."
I said, "Because I like to sleep at night."

There are plenty of people around here who are working illegally, not
paying insurance nor taxes, and don't know any better who can work for
these people. No more, for me.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/8/18 11:49 PM, wrote:
Hmmmm. Guess I am lucky, or special. I've never done a construction
job where I did not do it right. On the paying jobs I've done, I
always said this is what I am going to do and this is what it will
cost. No discussion or arguing to that. On the non paying jobs I
just say this is what it costs for the parts and my labor of course
is donated. There is no arguing over the parts.


I have a saying, "There are a million ways to do something, and one
right way."
So I think we are in the same camp for the most part.

In this particular case, there is wood rot around at the bottom of a
door jamb, at the threshold, that allowed water to get inside the house
and under the finished flooring.

To do it "right" would mean removing the entire door frame to inspect
for damage and possible rotted wood underneath, which is how I advised
the landlord. Then replace the rotted section with a composite material
or replace the entire jamb with composite material (about $50 for pvc
door frame). This is the way it would be done in order to be able to
guarantee no further damage.

After asking me the "what would you do it it was your house?" question
and explaining the above, the only option the landlord allowed in the
discussion was to patch the rotted wood section. There are two ways to
do this. Cut and scab or use a 2-part filler.

At this point, I have the option of walking away and refusing the job,
or accepting a specific repair request and doing it the best way
possible. There are literally a million of these rotting door jambs
within a 25 mile radius of me and having a cost effective way to
"repair" them could be a lucrative specialty business all in itself.

I have used both methods of repair, depending on the specific situation,
and they both do the job well. However, neither address other existing
rot or future potential rotting. For example, I have seen wood rot that
presented itself as being caused by water settling at the threshold/jamb
corner, but it was actually being caused by water getting behind brick
at the top of the door where it wasn't flashed properly and running down
the inside and settling at the threshold, rotting the jamb from the
inside out (and about 6" of jack stud as well). It rotted the stud
first, then the jamb.

All that to say, I guess I can do this repair "right" without doing it
"right."
Meaning, I'm being hired to patch some rotted wood and I'll do it right.
I'll use a high quality band-aid and apply it correctly and get paid.
But I can't guarantee it'll stop the bleeding somewhere else.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 2/9/18 9:34 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/8/18 11:49 PM, wrote:
Hmmmm.Â* Guess I am lucky, or special.Â* I've never done a construction
job where I did not do it right.Â* On the paying jobs I've done, I
always said this is what I am going to do and this is what it will
cost.Â* No discussion or arguing to that.Â* On the non paying jobs I
just say this is what it costs for the parts and my labor of course
is donated.Â* There is no arguing over the parts.


I have a saying, "There are a million ways to do something, and one
right way."
So I think we are in the same camp for the most part.

In this particular case, there is wood rot around at the bottom of a
door jamb, at the threshold, that allowed water to get inside the house
and under the finished flooring.

To do it "right" would mean removing the entire door frame to inspect
for damage and possible rotted wood underneath, which is how I advised
the landlord.Â* Then replace the rotted section with a composite material
or replace the entire jamb with composite material (about $50 for pvc
door frame).Â* This is the way it would be done in order to be able to
guarantee no further damage.

After asking me the "what would you do it it was your house?" question
and explaining the above, the only option the landlord allowed in the
discussion was to patch the rotted wood section.Â* There are two ways to
do this.Â* Cut and scab or use a 2-part filler.

At this point, I have the option of walking away and refusing the job,
or accepting a specific repair request and doing it the best way
possible.Â* There are literally a million of these rotting door jambs
within a 25 mile radius of me and having a cost effective way to
"repair" them could be a lucrative specialty business all in itself.

I have used both methods of repair, depending on the specific situation,
and they both do the job well.Â* However, neither address other existing
rot or future potential rotting.Â* For example, I have seen wood rot that
presented itself as being caused by water settling at the threshold/jamb
corner, but it was actually being caused by water getting behind brick
at the top of the door where it wasn't flashed properly and running down
the inside and settling at the threshold, rotting the jamb from the
inside out (and about 6" of jack stud as well).Â* It rotted the stud
first, then the jamb.

All that to say, I guess I can do this repair "right" without doing it
"right."
Meaning, I'm being hired to patch some rotted wood and I'll do it right.
I'll use a high quality band-aid and apply it correctly and get paid.
But I can't guarantee it'll stop the bleeding somewhere else.


I ended up using two 2-part epoxy products that I've used before. Both
are exterior and completely waterproof.
The first is Elmer's Damaged Wood Repair System which is great for
filling big voids.
The second is Bondo All-Purpose Putty, which is the same thing as their
2-part wood filler, sans the wood fiber. Unless you're staining, use
the all-purpose-- you get twice as much for the price.

I've used the 2-part Bondo wood filler before and love it. It sets up
very fast and you can build coats quickly and sand within 15-30 minutes.

The day before, I applied Minwax Wood Hardener which works really well
to stabilize softer wood and prime it for sticking to the epoxy.

I filled the deep voids with the Elmers. It has a 1-hour work time and
"cures" overnight, so it is slower than other 2-part products. However,
it doesn't need to be totally cured to build over. I went to lunch to
let it stiffen up.

Next, I applied the first coat of Bondo putty and let it stiffen enough
that I could "work it" some. About halfway through the catalyst cycle
it becomes a bit like play-doh and can be mushed around into shape.
Using a plastic putty knife sprayed with acetone, you can work it like
pottery clay. About 15 minutes later, it's ready for sanding.

I had a pretty good finished shape after the 1st layer of Bondo filler,
with some light filling to finish it up. Another feathering coat and
some sanding and it was done.

The paint you see is a Zinsser exterior primer that looks better than
the paint on the rest of the door frame. There are some tiny voids and
paint bubbles that I would normally touch-up and smooth out, but since
this repaired section looks a lot better than the rest of the door
frame, the client was happy with the end product. They have a painter
coming in to do the whole house, so they will do the detail work on the
door.

Here's the rotted jamb.
http://mikedrums.com/door_jam_rot_before.jpg
Here's the repair.
http://mikedrums.com/door_jamb_rot_after_comp.PNG


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 6:07:56 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/9/18 9:34 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/8/18 11:49 PM, wrote:
Hmmmm.Â* Guess I am lucky, or special.Â* I've never done a construction
job where I did not do it right.Â* On the paying jobs I've done, I
always said this is what I am going to do and this is what it will
cost.Â* No discussion or arguing to that.Â* On the non paying jobs I
just say this is what it costs for the parts and my labor of course
is donated.Â* There is no arguing over the parts.


I have a saying, "There are a million ways to do something, and one
right way."
So I think we are in the same camp for the most part.

In this particular case, there is wood rot around at the bottom of a
door jamb, at the threshold, that allowed water to get inside the house
and under the finished flooring.

To do it "right" would mean removing the entire door frame to inspect
for damage and possible rotted wood underneath, which is how I advised
the landlord.Â* Then replace the rotted section with a composite material
or replace the entire jamb with composite material (about $50 for pvc
door frame).Â* This is the way it would be done in order to be able to
guarantee no further damage.

After asking me the "what would you do it it was your house?" question
and explaining the above, the only option the landlord allowed in the
discussion was to patch the rotted wood section.Â* There are two ways to
do this.Â* Cut and scab or use a 2-part filler.

At this point, I have the option of walking away and refusing the job,
or accepting a specific repair request and doing it the best way
possible.Â* There are literally a million of these rotting door jambs
within a 25 mile radius of me and having a cost effective way to
"repair" them could be a lucrative specialty business all in itself.

I have used both methods of repair, depending on the specific situation,
and they both do the job well.Â* However, neither address other existing
rot or future potential rotting.Â* For example, I have seen wood rot that
presented itself as being caused by water settling at the threshold/jamb
corner, but it was actually being caused by water getting behind brick
at the top of the door where it wasn't flashed properly and running down
the inside and settling at the threshold, rotting the jamb from the
inside out (and about 6" of jack stud as well).Â* It rotted the stud
first, then the jamb.

All that to say, I guess I can do this repair "right" without doing it
"right."
Meaning, I'm being hired to patch some rotted wood and I'll do it right..
I'll use a high quality band-aid and apply it correctly and get paid.
But I can't guarantee it'll stop the bleeding somewhere else.


I ended up using two 2-part epoxy products that I've used before. Both
are exterior and completely waterproof.
The first is Elmer's Damaged Wood Repair System which is great for
filling big voids.
The second is Bondo All-Purpose Putty, which is the same thing as their
2-part wood filler, sans the wood fiber. Unless you're staining, use
the all-purpose-- you get twice as much for the price.

I've used the 2-part Bondo wood filler before and love it. It sets up
very fast and you can build coats quickly and sand within 15-30 minutes.

The day before, I applied Minwax Wood Hardener which works really well
to stabilize softer wood and prime it for sticking to the epoxy.

I filled the deep voids with the Elmers. It has a 1-hour work time and
"cures" overnight, so it is slower than other 2-part products. However,
it doesn't need to be totally cured to build over. I went to lunch to
let it stiffen up.

Next, I applied the first coat of Bondo putty and let it stiffen enough
that I could "work it" some. About halfway through the catalyst cycle
it becomes a bit like play-doh and can be mushed around into shape.
Using a plastic putty knife sprayed with acetone, you can work it like
pottery clay. About 15 minutes later, it's ready for sanding.

I had a pretty good finished shape after the 1st layer of Bondo filler,
with some light filling to finish it up. Another feathering coat and
some sanding and it was done.

The paint you see is a Zinsser exterior primer that looks better than
the paint on the rest of the door frame. There are some tiny voids and
paint bubbles that I would normally touch-up and smooth out, but since
this repaired section looks a lot better than the rest of the door
frame, the client was happy with the end product. They have a painter
coming in to do the whole house, so they will do the detail work on the
door.

Here's the rotted jamb.
http://mikedrums.com/door_jam_rot_before.jpg
Here's the repair.
http://mikedrums.com/door_jamb_rot_after_comp.PNG



Nice job.

If I ever become a landlord I'll be sure to use you for my repair work...as long as we can
agree on a price. ;-)

On 2/10/18 8:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 6:07:56 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/9/18 9:34 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/8/18 11:49 PM, wrote:
Hmmmm.Â* Guess I am lucky, or special.Â* I've never done a construction
job where I did not do it right.Â* On the paying jobs I've done, I
always said this is what I am going to do and this is what it will
cost.Â* No discussion or arguing to that.Â* On the non paying jobs I
just say this is what it costs for the parts and my labor of course
is donated.Â* There is no arguing over the parts.


I have a saying, "There are a million ways to do something, and one
right way."
So I think we are in the same camp for the most part.

In this particular case, there is wood rot around at the bottom of a
door jamb, at the threshold, that allowed water to get inside the house
and under the finished flooring.

To do it "right" would mean removing the entire door frame to inspect
for damage and possible rotted wood underneath, which is how I advised
the landlord.Â* Then replace the rotted section with a composite material
or replace the entire jamb with composite material (about $50 for pvc
door frame).Â* This is the way it would be done in order to be able to
guarantee no further damage.

After asking me the "what would you do it it was your house?" question
and explaining the above, the only option the landlord allowed in the
discussion was to patch the rotted wood section.Â* There are two ways to
do this.Â* Cut and scab or use a 2-part filler.

At this point, I have the option of walking away and refusing the job,
or accepting a specific repair request and doing it the best way
possible.Â* There are literally a million of these rotting door jambs
within a 25 mile radius of me and having a cost effective way to
"repair" them could be a lucrative specialty business all in itself.

I have used both methods of repair, depending on the specific situation,
and they both do the job well.Â* However, neither address other existing
rot or future potential rotting.Â* For example, I have seen wood rot that
presented itself as being caused by water settling at the threshold/jamb
corner, but it was actually being caused by water getting behind brick
at the top of the door where it wasn't flashed properly and running down
the inside and settling at the threshold, rotting the jamb from the
inside out (and about 6" of jack stud as well).Â* It rotted the stud
first, then the jamb.

All that to say, I guess I can do this repair "right" without doing it
"right."
Meaning, I'm being hired to patch some rotted wood and I'll do it right.
I'll use a high quality band-aid and apply it correctly and get paid.
But I can't guarantee it'll stop the bleeding somewhere else.


I ended up using two 2-part epoxy products that I've used before. Both
are exterior and completely waterproof.
The first is Elmer's Damaged Wood Repair System which is great for
filling big voids.
The second is Bondo All-Purpose Putty, which is the same thing as their
2-part wood filler, sans the wood fiber. Unless you're staining, use
the all-purpose-- you get twice as much for the price.

I've used the 2-part Bondo wood filler before and love it. It sets up
very fast and you can build coats quickly and sand within 15-30 minutes.

The day before, I applied Minwax Wood Hardener which works really well
to stabilize softer wood and prime it for sticking to the epoxy.

I filled the deep voids with the Elmers. It has a 1-hour work time and
"cures" overnight, so it is slower than other 2-part products. However,
it doesn't need to be totally cured to build over. I went to lunch to
let it stiffen up.

Next, I applied the first coat of Bondo putty and let it stiffen enough
that I could "work it" some. About halfway through the catalyst cycle
it becomes a bit like play-doh and can be mushed around into shape.
Using a plastic putty knife sprayed with acetone, you can work it like
pottery clay. About 15 minutes later, it's ready for sanding.

I had a pretty good finished shape after the 1st layer of Bondo filler,
with some light filling to finish it up. Another feathering coat and
some sanding and it was done.

The paint you see is a Zinsser exterior primer that looks better than
the paint on the rest of the door frame. There are some tiny voids and
paint bubbles that I would normally touch-up and smooth out, but since
this repaired section looks a lot better than the rest of the door
frame, the client was happy with the end product. They have a painter
coming in to do the whole house, so they will do the detail work on the
door.

Here's the rotted jamb.
http://mikedrums.com/door_jam_rot_before.jpg
Here's the repair.
http://mikedrums.com/door_jamb_rot_after_comp.PNG



Nice job.

If I ever become a landlord I'll be sure to use you for my repair work...as long as we can
agree on a price. ;-)


Haha!
Remember my motto: "I may be slow, but at least I'm expensive." :-D


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com