My daughter picked up this hutch at a garage sale and asked me to re-purpose
it as a kitchen island.

http://i.imgur.com/n9DMx4V.jpg

The slats from the top section have been moved to the back of the base to
give it a finished look. The base will be painted to match her kitchen
table and topped with a butcher block counter top slab.

The problem is the drawers. Right now they just slide on wooden rails with no
stops and nothing to keep them from shifting side to side when in use.

http://i.imgur.com/AqEw4Kp.jpg

The drawers are 1/4" narrower that the drawer opening, so retrofitting
side mount slides seems out of the question. There is 3/4" of space from
the bottom of the drawer box to the drawer bottom, so I think undermount
slides might work, but I've never installed an undermount slide.

http://i.imgur.com/3itutbE.jpg

Will undermount slides work in this situation? I assume that there are
different mounting methods for undermount slides, so based on the drawer
construction and rails shown in the above images, is there a specifc
type of mounting method I should be looking for or need to make? (I've
used Swingman's side mount slide frames, so I assume that there are
tricks for undermount slides also)

If it matters, the distance from the front face of the rail in the rear
of the base to the rear face of the front rail is 11.5". The inside
depth of the drawers is 13.5" so that when they are closed, they
extend over the top of the rear rail by about 1/8".

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!

On 6/4/2017 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My daughter picked up this hutch at a garage sale and asked me to re-purpose
it as a kitchen island.

http://i.imgur.com/n9DMx4V.jpg

The slats from the top section have been moved to the back of the base to
give it a finished look. The base will be painted to match her kitchen
table and topped with a butcher block counter top slab.

The problem is the drawers. Right now they just slide on wooden rails with no
stops and nothing to keep them from shifting side to side when in use.

http://i.imgur.com/AqEw4Kp.jpg

The drawers are 1/4" narrower that the drawer opening, so retrofitting
side mount slides seems out of the question. There is 3/4" of space from
the bottom of the drawer box to the drawer bottom, so I think undermount
slides might work, but I've never installed an undermount slide.

http://i.imgur.com/3itutbE.jpg

Will undermount slides work in this situation? I assume that there are
different mounting methods for undermount slides, so based on the drawer
construction and rails shown in the above images, is there a specifc
type of mounting method I should be looking for or need to make? (I've
used Swingman's side mount slide frames, so I assume that there are
tricks for undermount slides also)

If it matters, the distance from the front face of the rail in the rear
of the base to the rear face of the front rail is 11.5". The inside
depth of the drawers is 13.5" so that when they are closed, they
extend over the top of the rear rail by about 1/8".

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!


I would strongly suggest going to the manufacturer web site and down
loading the installation instructions to the particular under mount
slide you are considering. Under mount slides need for the drawer to
built to specific dimensions including the recess area under the bottom
of the drawer. Additionally under mounts tend to require a shallower
drawer for clearance when you insert and remove the drawer.

In the long run you may have to, and it might be easier to build new
drawers to spec. And if you go that route a side mount drawer slide
would be more economical and might be easier to install.

Maybe, rather than build new drawers, to accommodate undermount slides, is it feasible or practical to attach/glue inside side-panels, to the inside of the sides of the drawers (making the sides thicker), then rabbet the outside of the sides, to accommodate side-mount slides?

I don't suppose this adding of 2 boards, to each side of the drawer's interior, will take away too much space from inside the drawer space.

Sonny

On 06/04/2017 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
....

The drawers are 1/4" narrower that the drawer opening, so retrofitting
side mount slides seems out of the question. There is 3/4" of space from
the bottom of the drawer box to the drawer bottom, so I think undermount
slides might work, but I've never installed an undermount slide.
....

I used the K-V version of these (didn't find the exact part right off
the bat, sorry) to replace the old nylon roller ones Dad put in the
cabinets here (I built the frames and doors but had to go back home
before the drawers were built/hung).

They need 1/4" between the drawer bottom and the side rail bottom (not
the bottom of the face) but the side clearance is immaterial. The are
rated 50 lb; on a wide drawer I'd use two.

There is not, afaik, any way to make these with full-travel so you do
have to live with that, or, if there's extra depth in the cabinet, a
longer slide.

I find them quite satisfactory performers albeit not the "cream of the
crop" in newer, self-close, over-travel, etc., etc., etc., ... that
would find in high-end work, granted. But, they (the K-V version,
anyway) roll quietly and have no slop, etc., so you don't think "cheap
slides!" when open/close a drawer.

It did save (or at least put off) building new drawers here and this
kitchen is so cramped for space that even reducing the drawer with
enough to use 3/4" side material and the necessary clearance would make
a noticeable reduction in available storage so that's just not an
option. Doesn't look like you'd be that limited there, but would save
the drawers...

--

On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 11:08:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/4/2017 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My daughter picked up this hutch at a garage sale and asked me to re-purpose
it as a kitchen island.

http://i.imgur.com/n9DMx4V.jpg

The slats from the top section have been moved to the back of the base to
give it a finished look. The base will be painted to match her kitchen
table and topped with a butcher block counter top slab.

The problem is the drawers. Right now they just slide on wooden rails with no
stops and nothing to keep them from shifting side to side when in use.

http://i.imgur.com/AqEw4Kp.jpg

The drawers are 1/4" narrower that the drawer opening, so retrofitting
side mount slides seems out of the question. There is 3/4" of space from
the bottom of the drawer box to the drawer bottom, so I think undermount
slides might work, but I've never installed an undermount slide.

http://i.imgur.com/3itutbE.jpg

Will undermount slides work in this situation? I assume that there are
different mounting methods for undermount slides, so based on the drawer
construction and rails shown in the above images, is there a specifc
type of mounting method I should be looking for or need to make? (I've
used Swingman's side mount slide frames, so I assume that there are
tricks for undermount slides also)

If it matters, the distance from the front face of the rail in the rear
of the base to the rear face of the front rail is 11.5". The inside
depth of the drawers is 13.5" so that when they are closed, they
extend over the top of the rear rail by about 1/8".

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!


I would strongly suggest going to the manufacturer web site and down
loading the installation instructions to the particular under mount
slide you are considering. Under mount slides need for the drawer to
built to specific dimensions including the recess area under the bottom
of the drawer. Additionally under mounts tend to require a shallower
drawer for clearance when you insert and remove the drawer.

In the long run you may have to, and it might be easier to build new
drawers to spec. And if you go that route a side mount drawer slide
would be more economical and might be easier to install.


On some of the Lee Valley web pages - you can click on the
highlighted "Instr" link - to see the detailed installation
instructions. Here's an example :

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware...614,43616&ap=1


Some products just rely on the description text to relate the info :

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware...614,43616&ap=2

John T.

On 06/04/2017 12:00 PM, dpb wrote:
....

I used the K-V version of these (didn't find the exact part right off
the bat, sorry) ...

Well, it _would_ help to at least include that product link, wouldn't
it???

https://www.wwhardware.com/fulterer-fr5090-3-4-extension-center-mount-zinc-fr5090

--

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 1:05:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 11:08:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/4/2017 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My daughter picked up this hutch at a garage sale and asked me to re-purpose
it as a kitchen island.

http://i.imgur.com/n9DMx4V.jpg

The slats from the top section have been moved to the back of the base to
give it a finished look. The base will be painted to match her kitchen
table and topped with a butcher block counter top slab.

The problem is the drawers. Right now they just slide on wooden rails with no
stops and nothing to keep them from shifting side to side when in use.

http://i.imgur.com/AqEw4Kp.jpg

The drawers are 1/4" narrower that the drawer opening, so retrofitting
side mount slides seems out of the question. There is 3/4" of space from
the bottom of the drawer box to the drawer bottom, so I think undermount
slides might work, but I've never installed an undermount slide.

http://i.imgur.com/3itutbE.jpg

Will undermount slides work in this situation? I assume that there are
different mounting methods for undermount slides, so based on the drawer
construction and rails shown in the above images, is there a specifc
type of mounting method I should be looking for or need to make? (I've
used Swingman's side mount slide frames, so I assume that there are
tricks for undermount slides also)

If it matters, the distance from the front face of the rail in the rear
of the base to the rear face of the front rail is 11.5". The inside
depth of the drawers is 13.5" so that when they are closed, they
extend over the top of the rear rail by about 1/8".

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!


I would strongly suggest going to the manufacturer web site and down
loading the installation instructions to the particular under mount
slide you are considering. Under mount slides need for the drawer to
built to specific dimensions including the recess area under the bottom
of the drawer. Additionally under mounts tend to require a shallower
drawer for clearance when you insert and remove the drawer.

In the long run you may have to, and it might be easier to build new
drawers to spec. And if you go that route a side mount drawer slide
would be more economical and might be easier to install.


On some of the Lee Valley web pages - you can click on the
highlighted "Instr" link - to see the detailed installation
instructions. Here's an example :

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware...614,43616&ap=1


Some products just rely on the description text to relate the info :

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware...614,43616&ap=2

John T.

Thanks. I'll look into those

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 12:57:32 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
Maybe, rather than build new drawers, to accommodate undermount slides, is it feasible or practical to attach/glue inside side-panels, to the inside of the sides of the drawers (making the sides thicker), then rabbet the outside of the sides, to accommodate side-mount slides?

I don't suppose this adding of 2 boards, to each side of the drawer's interior, will take away too much space from inside the drawer space.

Sonny

That is not a bad suggestion. I'll look into that. When I built the new drawers
for the kitchen, I was able to use the existing runners to sit Swingman's
frame on. The same situation would apply here.

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 1:30:34 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 06/04/2017 12:00 PM, dpb wrote:
...

I used the K-V version of these (didn't find the exact part right off
the bat, sorry) ...

Well, it _would_ help to at least include that product link, wouldn't
it???

https://www.wwhardware.com/fulterer-fr5090-3-4-extension-center-mount-zinc-fr5090

--

I was going to ask about the link. ;-)

Thanks!

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 12:08:14 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 6/4/2017 9:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My daughter picked up this hutch at a garage sale and asked me to re-purpose
it as a kitchen island.

http://i.imgur.com/n9DMx4V.jpg

The slats from the top section have been moved to the back of the base to
give it a finished look. The base will be painted to match her kitchen
table and topped with a butcher block counter top slab.

The problem is the drawers. Right now they just slide on wooden rails with no
stops and nothing to keep them from shifting side to side when in use.

http://i.imgur.com/AqEw4Kp.jpg

The drawers are 1/4" narrower that the drawer opening, so retrofitting
side mount slides seems out of the question. There is 3/4" of space from
the bottom of the drawer box to the drawer bottom, so I think undermount
slides might work, but I've never installed an undermount slide.

http://i.imgur.com/3itutbE.jpg

Will undermount slides work in this situation? I assume that there are
different mounting methods for undermount slides, so based on the drawer
construction and rails shown in the above images, is there a specifc
type of mounting method I should be looking for or need to make? (I've
used Swingman's side mount slide frames, so I assume that there are
tricks for undermount slides also)

If it matters, the distance from the front face of the rail in the rear
of the base to the rear face of the front rail is 11.5". The inside
depth of the drawers is 13.5" so that when they are closed, they
extend over the top of the rear rail by about 1/8".

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!


I would strongly suggest going to the manufacturer web site and down
loading the installation instructions to the particular under mount
slide you are considering. Under mount slides need for the drawer to
built to specific dimensions including the recess area under the bottom
of the drawer. Additionally under mounts tend to require a shallower
drawer for clearance when you insert and remove the drawer.

In the long run you may have to, and it might be easier to build new
drawers to spec. And if you go that route a side mount drawer slide
would be more economical and might be easier to install.

The words my daughter used were something like...

"Hey Dad, could you throw a coat of paint on this and add a top?"

I'm still working on shimming and trimming out the back to make it
presentable. Now I gotta make new drawers? Heck, I should have started
from scratch. :-)

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:3d4e7afb-c7f9-4ac3-8dea-

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!

I realize that most people these days can't imagine a drawer without a
mechanical slide. I'm not among them. If it were me, I would...

1. Pack out the drawer spaces so that it was only 1/16 more than drawer
width rather than 1/4".

2. Apply "slick tape" to the cabinet members upon which the drawers ride.

There are also drawer rollers in myriad styles which can be easily attached
to drawers and/or carcase.

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 3:33:24 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:3d4e7afb-c7f9-4ac3-8dea-

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!

I realize that most people these days can't imagine a drawer without a
mechanical slide. I'm not among them. If it were me, I would...

Some people these days can't imagine a car without power steering. Pretty
soon some people won't be able to imagine a car that can't park itself.
Technology advances and people employ (and enjoy) it.

I lived with wooden rails for 50+ years until I decided to build new
kitchen drawers and use side mount rails. One way works, the other is
a pleasure to use.


1. Pack out the drawer spaces so that it was only 1/16 more than drawer
width rather than 1/4".

2. Apply "slick tape" to the cabinet members upon which the drawers ride.

....or add slides. ;-)


There are also drawer rollers in myriad styles which can be easily attached
to drawers and/or carcase.

In order of my preference, from worst to first:

3 - Wooden rails
2 - Roller slides
1 - Full extension, soft close, ball bearing slides

On 06/04/2017 3:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
....

I lived with wooden rails for 50+ years until I decided to build new
kitchen drawers and use side mount rails. One way works, the other is
a pleasure to use.
....

It's _possible_ to build a carcase housing for drawers that also are a
pleasure to use, but it's fine furniture work, not cabinetry, to do so
and the type of use a kitchen cabinet drawer gets makes the mechanicals
much more the attractive option, agreed.

--

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 5:24:13 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 06/04/2017 3:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
...

I lived with wooden rails for 50+ years until I decided to build new
kitchen drawers and use side mount rails. One way works, the other is
a pleasure to use.
...

It's _possible_ to build a carcase housing for drawers that also are a
pleasure to use, but it's fine furniture work, not cabinetry, to do so
and the type of use a kitchen cabinet drawer gets makes the mechanicals
much more the attractive option, agreed.

--

....and even more so on a older piece that never had the tight fitting drawers
or (insert lubricating method here) that would have prevented the wear and
tear over the years. Properly maintained, wooden rails can last for centuries,
but even a few years of neglect can render them "mechanical ready".

If this was something other than a garage sale piece (and it's definitely
not a diamond-in-the-rough find) I might consider maintaining it's original
features. As it is, I just want to make it easier for my daughter to use
and to get a few more years out of the drawers.

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 7:47:25 AM UTC-7, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My daughter picked up this hutch at a garage sale and asked me to re-purpose
it as a kitchen island.

The problem is the drawers. Right now they just slide on wooden rails with no
stops and nothing to keep them from shifting side to side when in use.

As I see it, the only easy refit those drawers can take, is a T rail overhead
and a sliding plastic fitting that screws to the drawer back.

Something like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Prime-Line-Wood-Track-Drawer-Guide-Kit/3010825

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 3:33:24 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:3d4e7afb-c7f9-4ac3-8dea-

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!

I realize that most people these days can't imagine a drawer without a
mechanical slide. I'm not among them. If it were me, I would...

Some people these days can't imagine a car without power steering. Pretty
soon some people won't be able to imagine a car that can't park itself.
Technology advances and people employ (and enjoy) it.

I lived with wooden rails for 50+ years until I decided to build new
kitchen drawers and use side mount rails. One way works, the other is
a pleasure to use.


1. Pack out the drawer spaces so that it was only 1/16 more than drawer
width rather than 1/4".

2. Apply "slick tape" to the cabinet members upon which the drawers ride.

...or add slides. ;-)


There are also drawer rollers in myriad styles which can be easily attached
to drawers and/or carcase.

In order of my preference, from worst to first:

3 - Wooden rails
2 - Roller slides
1 - Full extension, soft close, ball bearing slides


You cannot knock drawers with out mechanical slides, you just need for them
to fit properly. I have built 2 pieces of furniture in the past 5 years
that together have 31 draws that have no mechanical slides. The drawers
can only have 1" remaining inside the cabinet and will remain in place with
out a helping hand.
But, drawers with out mechanical slides should not be overloaded.

On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 12:27:59 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 3:33:24 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
news:3d4e7afb-c7f9-4ac3-8dea-

Any suggestions for upgrading these drawers would be appreciated. Thanks!

I realize that most people these days can't imagine a drawer without a
mechanical slide. I'm not among them. If it were me, I would...

Some people these days can't imagine a car without power steering. Pretty
soon some people won't be able to imagine a car that can't park itself.
Technology advances and people employ (and enjoy) it.

I lived with wooden rails for 50+ years until I decided to build new
kitchen drawers and use side mount rails. One way works, the other is
a pleasure to use.


1. Pack out the drawer spaces so that it was only 1/16 more than drawer
width rather than 1/4".

2. Apply "slick tape" to the cabinet members upon which the drawers ride.

...or add slides. ;-)


There are also drawer rollers in myriad styles which can be easily attached
to drawers and/or carcase.

In order of my preference, from worst to first:

3 - Wooden rails
2 - Roller slides
1 - Full extension, soft close, ball bearing slides


You cannot knock drawers with out mechanical slides, you just need for them
to fit properly. I have built 2 pieces of furniture in the past 5 years
that together have 31 draws that have no mechanical slides. The drawers
can only have 1" remaining inside the cabinet and will remain in place with
out a helping hand.
But, drawers with out mechanical slides should not be overloaded.

I wasn't knocking them. Please see my response to dpb. I believe that I
more or less said the same thing as you with regards to proper fit.

In this situation (the hutch) the quality fit that you employ doesn't exist,
and never did.