SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.

On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.

Fwwl your pain. Gave up going to our local show, which is no longer all
that "local" to me, about four years ago.

About the only thing I miss was the annual Forrest WWII discount, and
jig supplies/stuff you normally didn't get a chance to pickup locally.

Having a Rockler and WoodCraft in the area, coupled with online
shopping, pretty much killed the need.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 12:25:57 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.

Fwwl your pain. Gave up going to our local show, which is no longer all
that "local" to me, about four years ago.

About the only thing I miss was the annual Forrest WWII discount, and
jig supplies/stuff you normally didn't get a chance to pickup locally.

Having a Rockler and WoodCraft in the area, coupled with online
shopping, pretty much killed the need.

+1

Add Peachtree and Highland to the "locals". ;-) I rarely go to
Rockler, anymore, though.

Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment.
Hi Doug, I reviewed the seminar list in recent weeks and was
disappointed. The fellow (John ?) from Colorado who has a chair-making
school wasn't going to be there, Marc Adams (from the Marc Adams School
of Woodworking) wasn't going to be there. Unless one wants a seminar
on using lathes or 3-d printing, it didn't seem like there was much
excitement in the air (no offense directed at the traditional
presenters). I passed this year. The fact that they could not get Marc
Adams, or one of his possible representatives, to make the 20 minute
drive says something! Maybe Woodworkingshows is over-charging the
vendors? It seems like they raised the ticket price $2 this year too,
no? So with advance purchase, I think it would be $29 for a family of
two, including parking (maybe another $20 for lunch?) I would like to
be "supportive" of any activity in the woodworking (and woodcarving)
community, but it works both ways.

Bill



Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 12:46:43 PM UTC-5, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.

You might not want to make your decision for next year so early. I'd change
"not sure" to "I'll do some homework before I go next year, then decide". ;-)

I'd check out the stats once the dates are announced. If it's back to a
bigger hall that might indicate a better show.

How accurate is the listing of vendors found here?

http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/indianapolis.html

If it's accurate and next year's list is longer and/or includes the vendors
you are most interested in, you might make a different decision.

I'm just trying to save you a year's worth of negative thoughts. ;-)

Did you travel to Indy just for the show (hotel, etc.) or is it close
enough for a daily commute?

DerbyDad03 wrote in news:8f240077-8699-4ebe-a7b9-
:

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 12:46:43 PM UTC-5, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. [...]
And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.

You might not want to make your decision for next year so early. I'd change
"not sure" to "I'll do some homework before I go next year, then decide". ;-)

I'd check out the stats once the dates are announced. If it's back to a
bigger hall that might indicate a better show.

How accurate is the listing of vendors found here?

http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/indianapolis.html

Misleading at best:
-- Stoll Brothers, General, Makita, and ShopFox are all the same booth (Stoll Brothers is a
tool vendor that sells those brands)
-- Jet and Powermatic, same booth
-- Peachtree sells products by Mirka, Norton, and Bessey, but there were no separate
booths for those brands, just part of the Peachtree merchandise
-- If MicroJig or Earlex had booths, I sure didn't see them
-- Fine Woodworking and Wood were running demos and seminars, but FWW usually has
a booth selling books and they don't this year

And of course, Leaf Filter, Faerber's Windows, USA Insulation, and SealSmart haven't a
damn thing to do with woodworking.

If it's accurate and next year's list is longer and/or includes the vendors
you are most interested in, you might make a different decision.

I'm just trying to save you a year's worth of negative thoughts. ;-)

Did you travel to Indy just for the show (hotel, etc.) or is it close
enough for a daily commute?

We live in Indy, only about ten minutes away from the Fairgrounds.

On 2/4/2017 4:13 PM, Doug Miller wrote:


How accurate is the listing of vendors found here?

http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/indianapolis.html

Misleading at best:

And of course, Leaf Filter, Faerber's Windows, USA Insulation, and SealSmart haven't a
damn thing to do with woodworking.


Think about it. The show has nothing to do with woodworking. Its about
money. The companies you list look at the demographics of attendees and
see it as an opportunity to sell their product.

A large percentage of woodworkers are home owners. They would be the
perfect market target for Seal Smart so they hop aboard. How many
woodworkers have built their own shop? The ones that did probably
bought windows and maybe insulated.

At least they are closer than a huckster for veg-o-matic.

On 2/4/2017 3:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/4/2017 4:13 PM, Doug Miller wrote:


How accurate is the listing of vendors found here?

http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/indianapolis.html

Misleading at best:

And of course, Leaf Filter, Faerber's Windows, USA Insulation, and
SealSmart haven't a
damn thing to do with woodworking.


Think about it. The show has nothing to do with woodworking. Its about
money. The companies you list look at the demographics of attendees and
see it as an opportunity to sell their product.

A large percentage of woodworkers are home owners. They would be the
perfect market target for Seal Smart so they hop aboard. How many
woodworkers have built their own shop? The ones that did probably
bought windows and maybe insulated.

At least they are closer than a huckster for veg-o-matic.


Not to mention the jewelry booth for the wives that get drug along. ;~)

I don't care for the insurance sales booths.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:29:00 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 2/4/2017 3:33 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/4/2017 4:13 PM, Doug Miller wrote:


How accurate is the listing of vendors found here?

http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/indianapolis.html

Misleading at best:

And of course, Leaf Filter, Faerber's Windows, USA Insulation, and
SealSmart haven't a
damn thing to do with woodworking.


Think about it. The show has nothing to do with woodworking. Its about
money. The companies you list look at the demographics of attendees and
see it as an opportunity to sell their product.

A large percentage of woodworkers are home owners. They would be the
perfect market target for Seal Smart so they hop aboard. How many
woodworkers have built their own shop? The ones that did probably
bought windows and maybe insulated.

At least they are closer than a huckster for veg-o-matic.


Not to mention the jewelry booth for the wives that get drug along. ;~)

Same at gun shows.

I don't care for the insurance sales booths.

Now *they* don't show up at gun shows. ;-)

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 16:33:02 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/4/2017 4:13 PM, Doug Miller wrote:


How accurate is the listing of vendors found here?

http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/indianapolis.html

Misleading at best:

And of course, Leaf Filter, Faerber's Windows, USA Insulation, and SealSmart haven't a
damn thing to do with woodworking.


Think about it. The show has nothing to do with woodworking. Its about
money. The companies you list look at the demographics of attendees and
see it as an opportunity to sell their product.

A large percentage of woodworkers are home owners. They would be the
perfect market target for Seal Smart so they hop aboard. How many
woodworkers have built their own shop? The ones that did probably
bought windows and maybe insulated.

At least they are closer than a huckster for veg-o-matic.

A few years ago the Atlanta show had an antiques show on the other
side of the conference center (admission covered both). The wives
were happy. Everyone was happy. ;-)

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 9:45:23 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 16:33:02 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/4/2017 4:13 PM, Doug Miller wrote:


How accurate is the listing of vendors found here?

http://www.thewoodworkingshows.com/indianapolis.html

Misleading at best:

And of course, Leaf Filter, Faerber's Windows, USA Insulation, and SealSmart haven't a
damn thing to do with woodworking.


Think about it. The show has nothing to do with woodworking. Its about
money. The companies you list look at the demographics of attendees and
see it as an opportunity to sell their product.

A large percentage of woodworkers are home owners. They would be the
perfect market target for Seal Smart so they hop aboard. How many
woodworkers have built their own shop? The ones that did probably
bought windows and maybe insulated.

At least they are closer than a huckster for veg-o-matic.

A few years ago the Atlanta show had an antiques show on the other
side of the conference center (admission covered both). The wives
were happy. Everyone was happy. ;-)

We used to go to this strip club on the Canadian side of Niagara Falls. Entertainment
for the guys downstairs and entertainment for the ladies upstairs. Everyone was happy.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:44:56 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.

That's dissappointing to hear. We'll probably go to the one here
again this year but if it, too, has gone done that far it'll probably
be our last. P'tree and some junk seller (could be the same) were a
good share of the floor space last year. If it gets that bad, there
won't be anyreason to go. I can go to P'tree and HF any day I want.
No reason to pay anything.

On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



The one that comes to the Houston area is The Wood Working Shows. About
7 years ago a couple of women apparently took over and were clueless.
Not that them being women was the issue, I was just surprised that they
had changed from a central location that was best for all in the Houston
area to a HS gymnasium. And of course the parking lot was shared with
the school kids cars. I mention to them that this was not ideal and
their response was that they felt it was very successful. That was on
the first afternoon. They had the
attitude of "we own the show therefore we know better than you".

Fast forward a couple of years and they did not even show up. A local
woodworker had the show himself in a much better venue and charged only
enough to pay for the building, he did not charge the vendors at all,
IIRC. He had indicated that the women that owned The Woodworking Shows
had ****ed the vendors off so badly that they refused to come again.

Fast forward another 2 years and The Woodworking Shows is back under new
ownership. AND the show is as bad as it gets.
The show 2 years ago was held in what I call a covered live stock pen
just out side of Fumbuck EG. About 35 miles north fo down town Houston.
What the hell are they thinking.

10~15 years ago there was hardly a vendor that did not show. Now about
1/20th show.

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



The one that comes to the Houston area is The Wood Working Shows. About
7 years ago a couple of women apparently took over and were clueless.
Not that them being women was the issue, I was just surprised that they
had changed from a central location that was best for all in the Houston
area to a HS gymnasium. And of course the parking lot was shared with
the school kids cars. I mention to them that this was not ideal and
their response was that they felt it was very successful. That was on
the first afternoon. They had the
attitude of "we own the show therefore we know better than you".

Fast forward a couple of years and they did not even show up. A local
woodworker had the show himself in a much better venue and charged only
enough to pay for the building, he did not charge the vendors at all,
IIRC. He had indicated that the women that owned The Woodworking Shows
had ****ed the vendors off so badly that they refused to come again.

Fast forward another 2 years and The Woodworking Shows is back under new
ownership. AND the show is as bad as it gets.
The show 2 years ago was held in what I call a covered live stock pen
just out side of Fumbuck EG. About 35 miles north fo down town Houston.
What the hell are they thinking.

10~15 years ago there was hardly a vendor that did not show. Now about
1/20th show.

I'd like to hear from the vendors on this. We can assume from our own
experiences related to the venues, the organizers, etc. that that is why
the show experience has fallen off, but we don't really know.

A whole lot has changed in 10-15 years. Hell, even more has changed in
just the last couple of years. I could probably find more than one video
and/or website that reviews (or at least features) the products from every
one of the vendors listed at the Indy's woodworking show website. Sure, for
many of us the hands-on experience and face-to-face chat with the vendors
is fun, but for others, staying home and accessing readily available
information is easier and possibly more efficient. Maybe it's reached the
point where it's just not worth it for the vendors to showcase their wares
at these shows.

With price compression increasing every day, if they are not getting their
money's worth by displaying their products at the shows, it may not be the
"show's" fault, it may be the choice of the vendors.

This then causes a cascading effect. Fewer vendors leads to smaller/cheaper
venues. Fewer vendors and smaller/cheaper venues leads to less satisfied
attendees. Less satisfied attendees leads to fewer attendees which leads to
fewer vendors which leads to smaller/cheaper venues which leads to less
satisfied attendees.

Bottom line, it may all be the fault of our rapidly changing technology. We
don't have to wait for an annual show to see the latest products. The vendors
already told me about them in the email they sent out the day before the
products were released.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
snip

Less satisfied attendees leads to fewer attendees which leads to
fewer vendors which leads to smaller/cheaper venues which leads to less
satisfied attendees.

Bottom line, it may all be the fault of our rapidly changing technology. We
don't have to wait for an annual show to see the latest products. The vendors
already told me about them in the email they sent out the day before the
products were released.

Maybe the owners think that if they just keep running the same show that
people will still come? This year they offered "less than" the usual
show. Marc Adams School of Woodworking could definitely host a great
show of their own if they wanted to--probably all sorts of liability
issues with that. I'd pay $100. Their multi-day workshops are closer to
$200/day+ expenses. I may go visit Roy Underhill at his school
someday--maybe partly for sentimental reasons. I inquired about a
position at Colonial Williamsburg but there was not an opening at the
time. Maybe I'll re-inquire.

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 3:24:45 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
snip

Less satisfied attendees leads to fewer attendees which leads to
fewer vendors which leads to smaller/cheaper venues which leads to less
satisfied attendees.

Bottom line, it may all be the fault of our rapidly changing technology. We
don't have to wait for an annual show to see the latest products. The vendors
already told me about them in the email they sent out the day before the
products were released.

Maybe the owners think that if they just keep running the same show that
people will still come? This year they offered "less than" the usual
show. Marc Adams School of Woodworking could definitely host a great
show of their own if they wanted to

But that's my point/question. Do you actually know why the Marc Adams
school didn't show up? There are 2 ways to find out: Ask the organizers that
you feel offered a "less than the usual show" and also ask the Marc Adams
School.

I used the word "and" because by asking both you might get both sides of
the issue. Maybe it was "less then usual" because the school chose not to
participate through no fault of the organizers. Maybe the organizers
decided not to ask the school or decided not to pay their asking price. I
could list a whole bunch of other possible reasons why the school wasn't
there, but it would be nothing but speculation/questions. For all we know,
99% of the vendors and the venue were available on the weekend of the show
and the school just simply wasn't. We shouldn't assign blame until we know
the specifics.

As far as the many other vendors that did not show up, we also don't know
why. Did the owners invite all the usual vendors and get turned down? If so,
why were they turned down. Did the owner's not even ask the usual vendors?
If not, why not?

All I'm saying is that we (well, at least *I*) don't know why there were less
vendors at the shows you guys mentioned. I don't know why they are using
smaller/cheaper venues. Which came first? Lousy organizers? Cost-benefit
analysis by the vendors? Less attendance because of more immediate sources
of information? Fewer woodworkers in general? Any of those - or *all* of
those - reasons might be the cause(s) of the less than satisfying experiences
at these shows lately.





--probably all sorts of liability
issues with that. I'd pay $100. Their multi-day workshops are closer to
$200/day+ expenses. I may go visit Roy Underhill at his school
someday--maybe partly for sentimental reasons. I inquired about a
position at Colonial Williamsburg but there was not an opening at the
time. Maybe I'll re-inquire.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 3:24:45 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
snip
Less satisfied attendees leads to fewer attendees which leads to
fewer vendors which leads to smaller/cheaper venues which leads to less
satisfied attendees.

Bottom line, it may all be the fault of our rapidly changing technology. We
don't have to wait for an annual show to see the latest products. The vendors
already told me about them in the email they sent out the day before the
products were released.
Maybe the owners think that if they just keep running the same show that
people will still come? This year they offered "less than" the usual
show. Marc Adams School of Woodworking could definitely host a great
show of their own if they wanted to
But that's my point/question. Do you actually know why the Marc Adams
school didn't show up? There are 2 ways to find out: Ask the organizers that
you feel offered a "less than the usual show" and also ask the Marc Adams
School.

I used the word "and" because by asking both you might get both sides of
the issue.

I expect that some of the truth will eventually leak out, one way or
another. Neither of these profit-seeking entities has any obligation to
me, and I wouldn't request either of them to expend resources answering
any questions I have. It's curious that the Indianapolis show is the
first one mentioned here, this year. Is it exceptional? I think Leon's
post mentioned another example of a less than remarkable show. How
about others who attended a show this year?

Actually, to clarify: It appears that the MASW (Mark Adams...) showed
up, and probably had a table, but they did not run any seminars, to the
best of my knowledge.

On 2/4/2017 1:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



The one that comes to the Houston area is The Wood Working Shows. About
7 years ago a couple of women apparently took over and were clueless.
Not that them being women was the issue, I was just surprised that they
had changed from a central location that was best for all in the Houston
area to a HS gymnasium. And of course the parking lot was shared with
the school kids cars. I mention to them that this was not ideal and
their response was that they felt it was very successful. That was on
the first afternoon. They had the
attitude of "we own the show therefore we know better than you".

Fast forward a couple of years and they did not even show up. A local
woodworker had the show himself in a much better venue and charged only
enough to pay for the building, he did not charge the vendors at all,
IIRC. He had indicated that the women that owned The Woodworking Shows
had ****ed the vendors off so badly that they refused to come again.

Fast forward another 2 years and The Woodworking Shows is back under new
ownership. AND the show is as bad as it gets.
The show 2 years ago was held in what I call a covered live stock pen
just out side of Fumbuck EG. About 35 miles north fo down town Houston.
What the hell are they thinking.

10~15 years ago there was hardly a vendor that did not show. Now about
1/20th show.

I'd like to hear from the vendors on this. We can assume from our own
experiences related to the venues, the organizers, etc. that that is why
the show experience has fallen off, but we don't really know.

A whole lot has changed in 10-15 years. Hell, even more has changed in
just the last couple of years. I could probably find more than one video
and/or website that reviews (or at least features) the products from every
one of the vendors listed at the Indy's woodworking show website. Sure, for
many of us the hands-on experience and face-to-face chat with the vendors
is fun, but for others, staying home and accessing readily available
information is easier and possibly more efficient. Maybe it's reached the
point where it's just not worth it for the vendors to showcase their wares
at these shows.

In the old days you could get decent discounts on products at the shows.
There is still a pretty big show, huge actually, that is held annually
at a specific location. That would be one cool show to go to, I think
every vendor shows up, even the ones you have never heard of. IIRC it
is in LV.




With price compression increasing every day, if they are not getting their
money's worth by displaying their products at the shows, it may not be the
"show's" fault, it may be the choice of the vendors.

This then causes a cascading effect. Fewer vendors leads to smaller/cheaper
venues. Fewer vendors and smaller/cheaper venues leads to less satisfied
attendees. Less satisfied attendees leads to fewer attendees which leads to
fewer vendors which leads to smaller/cheaper venues which leads to less
satisfied attendees.

Bottom line, it may all be the fault of our rapidly changing technology. We
don't have to wait for an annual show to see the latest products. The vendors
already told me about them in the email they sent out the day before the
products were released.

I will have to agree that the internet has probably killed the shows for
us little folks.

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:45 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 2/4/2017 1:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



The one that comes to the Houston area is The Wood Working Shows. About
7 years ago a couple of women apparently took over and were clueless.
Not that them being women was the issue, I was just surprised that they
had changed from a central location that was best for all in the Houston
area to a HS gymnasium. And of course the parking lot was shared with
the school kids cars. I mention to them that this was not ideal and
their response was that they felt it was very successful. That was on
the first afternoon. They had the
attitude of "we own the show therefore we know better than you".

Fast forward a couple of years and they did not even show up. A local
woodworker had the show himself in a much better venue and charged only
enough to pay for the building, he did not charge the vendors at all,
IIRC. He had indicated that the women that owned The Woodworking Shows
had ****ed the vendors off so badly that they refused to come again.

Fast forward another 2 years and The Woodworking Shows is back under new
ownership. AND the show is as bad as it gets.
The show 2 years ago was held in what I call a covered live stock pen
just out side of Fumbuck EG. About 35 miles north fo down town Houston.
What the hell are they thinking.

10~15 years ago there was hardly a vendor that did not show. Now about
1/20th show.

I'd like to hear from the vendors on this. We can assume from our own
experiences related to the venues, the organizers, etc. that that is why
the show experience has fallen off, but we don't really know.

A whole lot has changed in 10-15 years. Hell, even more has changed in
just the last couple of years. I could probably find more than one video
and/or website that reviews (or at least features) the products from every
one of the vendors listed at the Indy's woodworking show website. Sure, for
many of us the hands-on experience and face-to-face chat with the vendors
is fun, but for others, staying home and accessing readily available
information is easier and possibly more efficient. Maybe it's reached the
point where it's just not worth it for the vendors to showcase their wares
at these shows.

In the old days you could get decent discounts on products at the shows.
There is still a pretty big show, huge actually, that is held annually
at a specific location. That would be one cool show to go to, I think
every vendor shows up, even the ones you have never heard of. IIRC it
is in LV.

There is a huge show here in Atlanta every year but it's for
businesses only. A friend did a DBA just to get in the show but that
seems extreme.

I guess it's every other year.
http://www.iwfatlanta.com/default.aspx


With price compression increasing every day, if they are not getting their
money's worth by displaying their products at the shows, it may not be the
"show's" fault, it may be the choice of the vendors.

This then causes a cascading effect. Fewer vendors leads to smaller/cheaper
venues. Fewer vendors and smaller/cheaper venues leads to less satisfied
attendees. Less satisfied attendees leads to fewer attendees which leads to
fewer vendors which leads to smaller/cheaper venues which leads to less
satisfied attendees.

Bottom line, it may all be the fault of our rapidly changing technology. We
don't have to wait for an annual show to see the latest products. The vendors
already told me about them in the email they sent out the day before the
products were released.

I will have to agree that the internet has probably killed the shows for
us little folks.

On 2/4/2017 8:50 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 17:25:45 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 2/4/2017 1:45 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 2:03:20 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



The one that comes to the Houston area is The Wood Working Shows. About
7 years ago a couple of women apparently took over and were clueless.
Not that them being women was the issue, I was just surprised that they
had changed from a central location that was best for all in the Houston
area to a HS gymnasium. And of course the parking lot was shared with
the school kids cars. I mention to them that this was not ideal and
their response was that they felt it was very successful. That was on
the first afternoon. They had the
attitude of "we own the show therefore we know better than you".

Fast forward a couple of years and they did not even show up. A local
woodworker had the show himself in a much better venue and charged only
enough to pay for the building, he did not charge the vendors at all,
IIRC. He had indicated that the women that owned The Woodworking Shows
had ****ed the vendors off so badly that they refused to come again.

Fast forward another 2 years and The Woodworking Shows is back under new
ownership. AND the show is as bad as it gets.
The show 2 years ago was held in what I call a covered live stock pen
just out side of Fumbuck EG. About 35 miles north fo down town Houston.
What the hell are they thinking.

10~15 years ago there was hardly a vendor that did not show. Now about
1/20th show.

I'd like to hear from the vendors on this. We can assume from our own
experiences related to the venues, the organizers, etc. that that is why
the show experience has fallen off, but we don't really know.

A whole lot has changed in 10-15 years. Hell, even more has changed in
just the last couple of years. I could probably find more than one video
and/or website that reviews (or at least features) the products from every
one of the vendors listed at the Indy's woodworking show website. Sure, for
many of us the hands-on experience and face-to-face chat with the vendors
is fun, but for others, staying home and accessing readily available
information is easier and possibly more efficient. Maybe it's reached the
point where it's just not worth it for the vendors to showcase their wares
at these shows.

In the old days you could get decent discounts on products at the shows.
There is still a pretty big show, huge actually, that is held annually
at a specific location. That would be one cool show to go to, I think
every vendor shows up, even the ones you have never heard of. IIRC it
is in LV.

There is a huge show here in Atlanta every year but it's for
businesses only. A friend did a DBA just to get in the show but that
seems extreme.

That might be one I was thinking of too, I thought it was some where
east of here. I'll be going to that one one day.....


I guess it's every other year.
http://www.iwfatlanta.com/default.aspx


Maybe LV on the off years. ;~)

Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, snip

Since they sent me a link, a reviewed the seminars at the St. Louis show
(then thought about the Indianapolis show), which was about the same.
Then it hit me: The absence of a *Cabinetmaking* seminar. If you are not
going to celebrate cabinetmaking, in the most general sense of the term,
what sort of woodworking show do you have? BTW, I already mentioned
there was no *Chairmaking* this year either. And their certainly was no
guitar making.... Doug pointed out that there were no books either.
Was the show over-intellectualized before? Was an attempt made to "dumb
it down"? You may already know this, but I'll mention that there are
some museums that provide great "woodworking shows"? Like to see fine
marquetry work?

On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



Well I just noticed that "The WoodWorking Shows is not scheduled to come
to Houston, a metro area of 4,000,000+ people and they skip over.

There is no wonder that the show is doing something wrong.

On top of that I noticed that one of the instructors is kinda young.
About 6 years ago he was just getting into woodworking with a small shop
in his mom's outer building. He has a web site and was on a Google
woodworking group. I suppose he is instructing because his woodworking
business is not paying the bills.

He is a nice enough guy but 6~7 years experience and now he is an
instructor?

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



Well I just noticed that "The WoodWorking Shows is not scheduled to come
to Houston, a metro area of 4,000,000+ people and they skip over.

There is no wonder that the show is doing something wrong.

They have no shows scheduled west of KC.

On 2/6/2017 12:25 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday -- wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday, and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



Well I just noticed that "The WoodWorking Shows is not scheduled to come
to Houston, a metro area of 4,000,000+ people and they skip over.

There is no wonder that the show is doing something wrong.

They have no shows scheduled west of KC.


I think that not having New Yankee Workshop was part of the decline.

I remember reading how This Old House ****ed off many contractors. They
thought the show would ruin their business. Instead it set off a
building frenzy to build to a higher level, and renovate to that same
level.. (high end stuff.. granite, HVAC, crown molding, pavers... etc.)
When Norm split off to the New Yankee Workshop, there was a major
resurgence in Woodworking. Everyone thought they could do it, and do it
as quick as Norm... of course this was not true. But it did set off a WW
frenzy. You had many shows that now started to show how to..
They are pretty much all gone. It's all female fluff right now. Even Roy
is gone I think. I watched the WW shows decline when HGTV pulled Norm,
then further when Norm retired from the series. So while many of you
might disagree, this is what I believe.

--
Jeff

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 2/6/2017 12:01 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 2/6/2017 12:25 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet writes:
On 2/4/2017 11:44 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
SWMBO and I went to the Indianapolis Woodworking Show yesterday --
wow, what a
disappointment. Fewer vendors than ever, it seems, in the smallest
exhibit hall yet, and more
than half of the show floor was taken up by just two
vendors(Peachtree and Tool Time
Liquidators). There were at least three or four vendors whose
products had nothing at all to do
with woodworking. And several vendors who had been there at many
previous shows were
absent.

Normally, we'll spend the entire day there on Friday and Saturday,
and part of Sunday
afternoon as well. Not this year: we decided we were done for the
weekend by about 4pm on
Friday.

And I'm not sure we'll be back next year.



Well I just noticed that "The WoodWorking Shows is not scheduled to come
to Houston, a metro area of 4,000,000+ people and they skip over.

There is no wonder that the show is doing something wrong.

They have no shows scheduled west of KC.


I think that not having New Yankee Workshop was part of the decline.

I remember reading how This Old House ****ed off many contractors. They
thought the show would ruin their business. Instead it set off a
building frenzy to build to a higher level, and renovate to that same
level.. (high end stuff.. granite, HVAC, crown molding, pavers... etc.)
When Norm split off to the New Yankee Workshop, there was a major
resurgence in Woodworking. Everyone thought they could do it, and do it
as quick as Norm... of course this was not true. But it did set off a WW
frenzy. You had many shows that now started to show how to..
They are pretty much all gone. It's all female fluff right now. Even Roy
is gone I think. I watched the WW shows decline when HGTV pulled Norm,
then further when Norm retired from the series. So while many of you
might disagree, this is what I believe.



Probably true to some point but the shows in Houston in the late 70's
early 80's were huge, that was before NYW. The shows attendance were in
decline before NYW went off the air and even more since they left the
Astrodome location.

woodchucker wrote in
:


I think that not having New Yankee Workshop was part of the decline.

I remember reading how This Old House ****ed off many contractors.
They thought the show would ruin their business. Instead it set off a
building frenzy to build to a higher level, and renovate to that same
level.. (high end stuff.. granite, HVAC, crown molding, pavers...
etc.) When Norm split off to the New Yankee Workshop, there was a
major resurgence in Woodworking. Everyone thought they could do it,
and do it as quick as Norm... of course this was not true. But it did
set off a WW frenzy. You had many shows that now started to show how
to.. They are pretty much all gone. It's all female fluff right now.
Even Roy is gone I think. I watched the WW shows decline when HGTV
pulled Norm, then further when Norm retired from the series. So while
many of you might disagree, this is what I believe.


Sir Roy is still hanging on. Your PBS station might not be showing him,
which is a shame. The last episode I saw as about Van Gogh's chair.

Tommy MacDonald was supposed to replace Norm, but he doesn't even come
close.

Hometime is done too. Don't know what the TOH guys will do when Tommy
retires.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

"woodchucker" wrote in message
...


I remember reading how This Old House ****ed off many contractors. They
thought the show would ruin their business. Instead it set off a building
frenzy to build to a higher level, and renovate to that same level.. (high
end stuff.. granite, HVAC, crown molding, pavers... etc.)
When Norm split off to the New Yankee Workshop, there was a major
resurgence in Woodworking. Everyone thought they could do it, and do it as
quick as Norm... of course this was not true. But it did set off a WW
frenzy. You had many shows that now started to show how to..
They are pretty much all gone. It's all female fluff right now. Even Roy is
gone I think. I watched the WW shows decline when HGTV pulled Norm, then
further when Norm retired from the series. So while many of you might
disagree, this is what I believe.

Roy is still around... season 36.

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/w...2017-episodes/

I think a bigger problem is that we are aging out... not many younger people
are exposed to woodworking in school and the myriad single parent households
haven't helped...

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
...

"woodchucker" wrote in message
...


I remember reading how This Old House ****ed off many contractors. They
thought the show would ruin their business. Instead it set off a building
frenzy to build to a higher level, and renovate to that same level.. (high
end stuff.. granite, HVAC, crown molding, pavers... etc.)
When Norm split off to the New Yankee Workshop, there was a major
resurgence in Woodworking. Everyone thought they could do it, and do it as
quick as Norm... of course this was not true. But it did set off a WW
frenzy. You had many shows that now started to show how to..
They are pretty much all gone. It's all female fluff right now. Even Roy is
gone I think. I watched the WW shows decline when HGTV pulled Norm, then
further when Norm retired from the series. So while many of you might
disagree, this is what I believe.

Roy is still around... season 36.

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/w...2017-episodes/

I think a bigger problem is that we are aging out... not many younger people
are exposed to woodworking in school and the myriad single parent households
haven't helped...

Forgot to add that YouTube has taken a role in woodworking education... even
if I cringe when I see some of the stuff being done it's still influencing
people. ;~)

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in
:


Roy is still around... season 36.

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/w...ason-episodes/
2016-2017-episodes/

I think a bigger problem is that we are aging out... not many younger
people are exposed to woodworking in school and the myriad single
parent households haven't helped...



It's not going to be fun dealing with the post-millenials. They will
have been taught reading, writing, and arithmetic and have no idea what
to use it for!

Next time I pay my "rent" (property tax), I'll have to include a note for
the county that says I support band, art, and shop in schools. I'm
paying for it, I might as well have some say how my money is used.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 2/6/2017 2:38 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:



I think a bigger problem is that we are aging out... not many younger
people are exposed to woodworking in school and the myriad single parent
households haven't helped...



Woodworking with younger people has to compete with X-box and
smartphones. You can't text with a router. The world is changing.

Leon wrote:


He is a nice enough guy but 6~7 years experience and now he is an
instructor?


All it takes to be an instructor is the ability to make a 45-minute
presentation, right?

On 2/6/2017 12:03 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:


He is a nice enough guy but 6~7 years experience and now he is an
instructor?


All it takes to be an instructor is the ability to make a 45-minute
presentation, right?


Pretty much. LOL

As the old saying goes those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.

On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:14:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 2/6/2017 12:03 PM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:


He is a nice enough guy but 6~7 years experience and now he is an
instructor?


All it takes to be an instructor is the ability to make a 45-minute
presentation, right?


Pretty much. LOL

As the old saying goes those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.

Those who can't teach, manage.

wrote in :

On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:14:04 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 2/6/2017 12:03 PM, Bill wrote:

Pretty much. LOL

As the old saying goes those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.

Those who can't teach, manage.

And those who can't manage?

Puckdroppper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

Bill wrote in news7adqe01ae5
@news4.newsguy.com:

Leon wrote:


He is a nice enough guy but 6~7 years experience and now he is an
instructor?


All it takes to be an instructor is the ability to make a 45-minute
presentation, right?

Much less than that. A camera and a computer. Don't bother planning
things, writing a script, or editing, 40,000 views is out there for you!

Throw a kitten in there if you're not getting enough views. The internet
loves kittens.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!