On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 7:55:57 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:


I get it! Thanks! Am I the only one here who didn't know that?

Bill

Me. I'm probably qualified for an honorary degree in Electrical Ignorance.

Sonny

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 7:55:57 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 4:58:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 6/9/2016 4:23 PM, Bill wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
Even though this is not DC...Ohm's Law says your theory is wrong.
I=E/R, if you double the voltage you halve the current. Also, wattage
would prove that out. The same motor wired 240, would draw
I get it. I'm also gently reminded/informed that a 240V circuit is Not
the equivalent of two 120v circuits.

But you do realize that the 240 in your home is made up of 2 out of
phase 120 circuits...

Yes, that's most-surely what led to my confusion about the way a 240v
circuit works...
So, a 240v circuit apparently doesn't have a direction....or rather, it
has 2 directions at the same time, from one leg to another, and vice-versa.

Bill
...half of your 120 volt circuits would be out of phase with the other half. And there are 120 direction changes (60 cycles) in one second.

I get it! Thanks! Am I the only one here who didn't know that?

Bill

( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

On 09 Jun 2016 02:58:34 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

krw wrote in news:ghkhlbpfmnljfsti8b697rab3upu9593ap@
4ax.com:


There are a bunch of woodworking EEs. ;-) It seems the two
disciplines use some of the same mental skills.


Looks like you're on to something.
- Sparks flying is a bad thing.
- You can glue/solder pieces together, but it's not always a good idea.
- You can never have too many clamps/outlets.
- Measure twice, cut once applies to electricity too. (Measure, power good,
cut off at breaker, measure again, no power, probably safe to work.)
- You don't have to match colors to make things work, but not doing so is
the sure sign of a clueless hack. (Intentional mismatching is ok.)
- Hand planes and wire strippers remove the outer surface of the workpiece.
- Copper turns green with age, so do trees.
- Running the wood backwards through the saw won't reattach it... Not even
if you swap the motor leads.
- The sun can be used to generate wood or electricity.

;-)

However, there are differences. Wood can be used to make electricity
but the other way around takes a *long* time.

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 9:12:36 PM UTC-5, krw wrote:


Does the Australian electricity turn the other way?

Ugh..., Yes!

Sonny

krw wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:23:47 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bob Villa wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 1:45:41 AM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:55:19 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 21:30:09 -0400, Mike Marlow
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:19:50 -0400, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 2016-06-08 3:07 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
In the owner's manual for my (new to me) Delta TS (36-841), it says:

"This circuit should not be less than #12 wire and should be protected
with a 20 Amp time lag fuse."

Not being aware of this detail until now, I was just going to use a
regular 20-Amp circuit-breaker (I ran #12 wire).
Correction, I ran #10 wire, for this.


Please advise. Thank you!

Bill
Prepare for a few breaker pops, hope the fuse panel is close to the saw.
If wired for 120 V I would say yes, if wire for 240 V probably not.

20 amps is 20 amps. Don't matter whether you're running 120 or 240.
Yes but a 240 V circuit has two 20 amp leads, a motor drawing 20 amps,
10 per leg.

Mark
Current (when there is a load) is the same at any place in the circuit, regardless of being 120 or 240.
However a more that needs 20 amps at 110 volts only needs 10 at 220.
That's because it gets 10 amps on Each of Two legs at the same time (I
think "legs" is the right word, I could be wrong).
Even though this is not DC...Ohm's Law says your theory is wrong. I=E/R, if you double the voltage you halve the current. Also, wattage would prove that out. The same motor wired 240, would draw
I get it. I'm also gently reminded/informed that a 240V circuit is Not
the equivalent of two 120v circuits.
It is, really, except that the two circuits are out of phase, so they
add (if they were in-phase, they'd subtract).

That comment makes me wonder whether you really understand--as well as
Bob Villa has explained it.




Thanks,
Bill


half what it did on 120. On single phase, the neutral (white or ground) is the center-tap of the power transformer. That's why it's half the voltage.

Yes, on the pole, and the neutral is brought into the panel. However,
there is no neutral in this (240V) circuit. It's not needed because
the saw doesn't use 120V (if wired for 240V).

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 22:35:29 -0400, Bill
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:23:47 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bob Villa wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 1:45:41 AM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:55:19 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 21:30:09 -0400, Mike Marlow
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:19:50 -0400, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 2016-06-08 3:07 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
In the owner's manual for my (new to me) Delta TS (36-841), it says:

"This circuit should not be less than #12 wire and should be protected
with a 20 Amp time lag fuse."

Not being aware of this detail until now, I was just going to use a
regular 20-Amp circuit-breaker (I ran #12 wire).
Correction, I ran #10 wire, for this.


Please advise. Thank you!

Bill
Prepare for a few breaker pops, hope the fuse panel is close to the saw.
If wired for 120 V I would say yes, if wire for 240 V probably not.

20 amps is 20 amps. Don't matter whether you're running 120 or 240.
Yes but a 240 V circuit has two 20 amp leads, a motor drawing 20 amps,
10 per leg.

Mark
Current (when there is a load) is the same at any place in the circuit, regardless of being 120 or 240.
However a more that needs 20 amps at 110 volts only needs 10 at 220.
That's because it gets 10 amps on Each of Two legs at the same time (I
think "legs" is the right word, I could be wrong).
Even though this is not DC...Ohm's Law says your theory is wrong. I=E/R, if you double the voltage you halve the current. Also, wattage would prove that out. The same motor wired 240, would draw
I get it. I'm also gently reminded/informed that a 240V circuit is Not
the equivalent of two 120v circuits.
It is, really, except that the two circuits are out of phase, so they
add (if they were in-phase, they'd subtract).

That comment makes me wonder whether you really understand--as well as
Bob Villa has explained it.

Wonder about what? What I said is correct, with a possible niggle
about "circuits" (without the neutral there is only one).

Frankly, I didn't understand "( ?~ ?? ?°)". ;-)

krw wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 22:35:29 -0400, Bill
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 17:23:47 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Bob Villa wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 1:45:41 AM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
J. Clarke wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:55:19 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 21:30:09 -0400, Mike Marlow
wrote:

Markem wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jun 2016 15:19:50 -0400, FrozenNorth
wrote:

On 2016-06-08 3:07 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
In the owner's manual for my (new to me) Delta TS (36-841), it says:

"This circuit should not be less than #12 wire and should be protected
with a 20 Amp time lag fuse."

Not being aware of this detail until now, I was just going to use a
regular 20-Amp circuit-breaker (I ran #12 wire).
Correction, I ran #10 wire, for this.


Please advise. Thank you!

Bill
Prepare for a few breaker pops, hope the fuse panel is close to the saw.
If wired for 120 V I would say yes, if wire for 240 V probably not.

20 amps is 20 amps. Don't matter whether you're running 120 or 240.
Yes but a 240 V circuit has two 20 amp leads, a motor drawing 20 amps,
10 per leg.

Mark
Current (when there is a load) is the same at any place in the circuit, regardless of being 120 or 240.
However a more that needs 20 amps at 110 volts only needs 10 at 220.
That's because it gets 10 amps on Each of Two legs at the same time (I
think "legs" is the right word, I could be wrong).
Even though this is not DC...Ohm's Law says your theory is wrong. I=E/R, if you double the voltage you halve the current. Also, wattage would prove that out. The same motor wired 240, would draw
I get it. I'm also gently reminded/informed that a 240V circuit is Not
the equivalent of two 120v circuits.
It is, really, except that the two circuits are out of phase, so they
add (if they were in-phase, they'd subtract).
That comment makes me wonder whether you really understand--as well as
Bob Villa has explained it.
Wonder about what?

The flow of electricity in the 240v versus 120v circuits (feel free to
show me that I'm wrong, and I'll be the first to admit it).



What I said is correct, with a possible niggle
about "circuits" (without the neutral there is only one).

Frankly, I didn't understand "( ?~ ?? ?°)". ;-)

On 6/9/2016 7:55 PM, Bill wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 4:58:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 6/9/2016 4:23 PM, Bill wrote:
Bob Villa wrote:
Even though this is not DC...Ohm's Law says your theory is wrong.
I=E/R, if you double the voltage you halve the current. Also, wattage
would prove that out. The same motor wired 240, would draw
I get it. I'm also gently reminded/informed that a 240V circuit is
Not
the equivalent of two 120v circuits.

But you do realize that the 240 in your home is made up of 2 out of
phase 120 circuits...

Yes, that's most-surely what led to my confusion about the way a 240v
circuit works...
So, a 240v circuit apparently doesn't have a direction....or rather, it
has 2 directions at the same time, from one leg to another, and
vice-versa.

Bill
...half of your 120 volt circuits would be out of phase with the other
half. And there are 120 direction changes (60 cycles) in one second.

I get it! Thanks! Am I the only one here who didn't know that?

Bill




No, most don't get it, just regurgitating something they have googled. ;~)

On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 23:40:47 -0400, Bill
wrote:

The flow of electricity in the 240v versus 120v circuits (feel free to
show me that I'm wrong, and I'll be the first to admit it).

First off there is a single phase, a 240v circuit needs no neutral.

The potential of the two legs is 180 degrees different to cause that
potential.

A 120v circuit require a neutral return path.

If you have two signals that are 180 degrees out of phase they cancel
each other. That would be a two phase system and you only have one.

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 9:11:36 AM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 23:40:47 -0400, Bill
wrote:

The flow of electricity in the 240v versus 120v circuits (feel free to
show me that I'm wrong, and I'll be the first to admit it).

First off there is a single phase, a 240v circuit needs no neutral.

The potential of the two legs is 180 degrees different to cause that
potential.

A 120v circuit require a neutral return path.

If you have two signals that are 180 degrees out of phase they cancel
each other. That would be a two phase system and you only have one.

The "potential" is a voltage term. The 2 "hot" wires are in phase for 240 single phase. If you took 2 120 Volt circuits from the same side of the panel (in phase) black to black, white to white...you would have effectively, the same circuit at 120 V. 240 out of phase? Not sure of the consequences of that!

Bob Villa wrote:
If you took 2 120 Volt circuits from the same side of the panel (in
phase) black to black, white to white...you would have effectively,
the same circuit at 120 V. 240 out of phase? Not sure of the
consequences of that!

Don't they call that a "run" (of outlets, say)?

In article ,
says...

Bill wrote in :

In the owner's manual for my (new to me) Delta TS (36-841), it says:

"This circuit should not be less than #12 wire and should be protected
with a 20 Amp time lag fuse."

Not being aware of this detail until now, I was just going to use a
regular 20-Amp circuit-breaker (I ran #12 wire). Please advise. Thank you!

20 amp circuit breaker is fine.

The breaker equivalent of a "slow-blow" fuse is called a "high
magnetic" breaker. If your regular breaker is tripping on startup you
might want to consider going that route. Personally when I run into tht
though I generally just rewire the tool for 220 (if that's an option)
and run a dedicated circuit. Most tools seem happier with 220 anyway.

On Sat, 11 Jun 2016 05:54:24 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Bill wrote in :

In the owner's manual for my (new to me) Delta TS (36-841), it says:

"This circuit should not be less than #12 wire and should be protected
with a 20 Amp time lag fuse."

Not being aware of this detail until now, I was just going to use a
regular 20-Amp circuit-breaker (I ran #12 wire). Please advise. Thank you!

20 amp circuit breaker is fine.

The breaker equivalent of a "slow-blow" fuse is called a "high
magnetic" breaker. If your regular breaker is tripping on startup you
might want to consider going that route. Personally when I run into tht
though I generally just rewire the tool for 220 (if that's an option)
and run a dedicated circuit. Most tools seem happier with 220 anyway.

Running large stationary tools at 240V is certainly recommended (I
think the OP has already gone that way) but there isn't a lot of
reason to run dedicated circuits in a home shop. Several tools can
share the circuit, since you aren't likely to use them simultaneously.
The exception, of course, is a DC.