In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim

On 5/8/2016 7:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim

I would say at a minimum the cans should be used for esthetics if
nothing else. The cans will prevent the insulation from falling down
into the opening. It will also keep the insulations away from the
connection making it easier to repair or replace the ligth fixture in
the future.

I think the first question you should be asking is what is the building
code in your area. Cans may be required for the installation of all
types of lights.

On 5/8/2016 7:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


Some lights, whether they be incandescent, fluorescent, or LED, are rated
for insulation contact (IC) and others are not. It will be clearly marked
on the fixture and the box. All of the dedicated LED flush lights I've
looked at have been rated IC but that doesn't mean that they all are. By
all means do it by code otherwise you might find your investment going up
in flames with no recourse to insurance coverage.

On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

In article ,
says...

In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

If it's subject to inspection, talk to the inspector--building codes are
generally a few years behind current technology and the inspector is in
general obligated to follow the code.

Leon wrote:
On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

My high output flashlight gets rather hot after a while. Maybe the
lithium batteries? Or an in-line resistor.?

--
GW Ross

A professor is one who talks in
someone else's sleep.

"G. Ross" wrote:

LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

My high output flashlight gets rather hot after a while. Maybe the
lithium batteries? Or an in-line resistor.?

High Power LEDs produce a LOT of heat at its junction on the mcpcb
(metal core printed circuit board) which is transferred through the pill, in
this cut-away:

http://i.imgur.com/rr4HruK.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPzb_w8PrLY

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:CqCdnTPzT8TS0rLKnZ2dnUU7-
:

LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

LEDs themselves do produce heat, altho not very much. As
it happens, transformers also produce heat, altho not very
much. The two things that do produce enough heat to watch
for are the rectifier circuit (usually but not always in
with the transformer) and the current limiting resistor
(usually but not always in with the LED). Typically the
biggest heat source is the resistor.

John

On Sun, 8 May 2016 09:38:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

Don't stick your finger on the LED. The LEDs themselves get quite
hot.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

Yup. RTFM.

On Sun, 08 May 2016 06:22:23 -0500, swalker wrote:

In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim

LED lights can produce a great amount of heat, so I would lean on the
side of you being wrong. The better way to look at it is belt and
suspenders approach, then if it catches fire you are in a better
position for your insurance claim.

On Sun, 8 May 2016 09:38:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

Leon I have burned myself on LEDs, granted I was repairing a problem
but they do get warm it is a function of how much current is flowing.
But the transformer is the main heat sources and what ever resistive
element is use to create current.

On Sun, 08 May 2016 18:11:01 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Sun, 08 May 2016 06:22:23 -0500, swalker wrote:

In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim

LED lights can produce a great amount of heat, so I would lean on the
side of you being wrong. The better way to look at it is belt and
suspenders approach, then if it catches fire you are in a better
position for your insurance claim.

I'm not sure how he's going to connect the lights but there is likely
a "listed" way to do it. The light probably requires some sort of
fixture or electrical box. Doing it any other way would be a code
violation. I'm with you. Do it right.

krw wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2016 09:38:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

Don't stick your finger on the LED. The LEDs themselves get quite
hot.

Actually I have held my finger on countless LEDs, ribbon LEDs, and have
never felt anything.




The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

Yup. RTFM.

John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in news:CqCdnTPzT8TS0rLKnZ2dnUU7-
:

LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

LEDs themselves do produce heat, altho not very much. As
it happens, transformers also produce heat, altho not very
much. The two things that do produce enough heat to watch
for are the rectifier circuit (usually but not always in
with the transformer) and the current limiting resistor
(usually but not always in with the LED). Typically the
biggest heat source is the resistor.

John


I will say that the ribbon LEDs that I have used produce no noticeable
amount of heat at the LED itself. We in fact never turn our under cabinet
ribbon LEDs off and there is no heat build up at all.

Given that, a roll of ribbon LEDs on the reel will heat up pretty quickly
but once unwound and laid out flat there is no noticeable amount of heat,
ever.

In fact our LED strings of Christmas lights that I also leave plunged in
all season 24/7 never get warm either.

G. Ross wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

My high output flashlight gets rather hot after a while. Maybe the
lithium batteries? Or an in-line resistor.?


Energy is being consumed so some heat is generated somewhere but I have
never witnessed the actual Light Emitting Diode to ever even be warm.

Markem wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2016 09:38:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

Leon I have burned myself on LEDs, granted I was repairing a problem
but they do get warm it is a function of how much current is flowing.
But the transformer is the main heat sources and what ever resistive
element is use to create current.


I have never felt any heat from an LED. And that is touching them directly.

On 5/8/16 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.



LED lights produce a lot of heat. The problem is the LED itself is very
sensitive to heat and this heat from the LED is essentially a point
source. Much work with heat sink design goes into removing this heat.


-BR


The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

On 5/8/16 10:24 PM, Leon wrote:
G. Ross wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

My high output flashlight gets rather hot after a while. Maybe the
lithium batteries? Or an in-line resistor.?


Energy is being consumed so some heat is generated somewhere but I have
never witnessed the actual Light Emitting Diode to ever even be warm.


Bigger ones (500 Lumens or more) produce enough heat to burn skin, It's
painful 8^(

-BR

On Sun, 8 May 2016 23:24:06 -0500, Leon wrote:

G. Ross wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

My high output flashlight gets rather hot after a while. Maybe the
lithium batteries? Or an in-line resistor.?


Energy is being consumed so some heat is generated somewhere but I have
never witnessed the actual Light Emitting Diode to ever even be warm.

At high output, they sure will. Probably not fire hot but they'll get
hot enough to cook many insulators, which may avalanche into a real
problem. Use the fixtures as designed.

On Sun, 8 May 2016 23:09:06 -0500, Leon wrote:

krw wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2016 09:38:07 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.

Don't stick your finger on the LED. The LEDs themselves get quite
hot.

Actually I have held my finger on countless LEDs, ribbon LEDs, and have
never felt anything.

Don't assume they're all the same. Again, use them AS DESIGNED and
you won't have problems.


The instructions that come with the LED lighting will indicate what is
necessary.

Yup. RTFM.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 07:05:22 -0600, Brewster wrote:

On 5/8/16 8:38 AM, Leon wrote:
On 5/8/2016 6:22 AM, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim


LED lights themselves do not produce heat. Their transformers however
do produce some heat, whether that be at an alternate location or built
into the light element it self.



LED lights produce a lot of heat. The problem is the LED itself is very
sensitive to heat and this heat from the LED is essentially a point
source. Much work with heat sink design goes into removing this heat.

Exactly. If they're not used as designed in fixtures that they're
designed to work in, that heat may not be able to escape.

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 9:09:09 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
krw wrote:

Don't stick your finger on the LED. The LEDs themselves get quite
hot.

Actually I have held my finger on countless LEDs, ribbon LEDs, and have
never felt anything.

Your finger is a good heatsink, but a poor sensor. The LEDs produce more heat
than light, and there are other components (resistors, one per three LEDs,
typically on strip lights) that dissipate power, too.

One watt of light is about what a 2 inch magnifier collects on a sunny day;
that would get your finger very toasty, even if there weren't ANY waste heat.

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 6:22:27 AM UTC-5, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

You aren't wrong. I took a class last summer on LED lighting as one of my customers was looking into converting about 80 fixtures.

First, it is unbelievable to me just how many poorly made lights and fixtures there are. Worse, they aren't labeled properly, so if you are focused on wattage, energy savings, getting the right Kelvin for your needs, etc., you might forget to get some essentials.

First, get a UL approved fixture if at all possible, and try to get a fixture from a well known manufacturer. Same thing with the bulbs if bought separately. (No need to correct the statement; for purpose of clarity I juxtaposed "bulbs" for Light Emitting Diode".)

My electrician and the guys that gave the seminar all advised to NOT insulate over the fixtures. There are designations that I don't believe are industry standards, but more like lingo such as AT, IC, WT, and a combination of all. AT is air tight, IC is insulation compatible, and WT is water tight.. Regardless of designation, I was shown pictures of fires started in ceilings with LEDs that were supposed to be insulation compatible.

Different LEDs do different things, are made to different standards and perform differently from one another in use even though their specs read the same. I wouldn't want a fixture that tested out at XXX degrees of heat when in operation that could develop and few degrees more heat and reach the flashpoint of wood framing or the paper on insulation or anything else that could burn.

My electrician and insulation guys recommend six inches around each light, regardless of its designation.

An easier fix would be what the LED lighting guy recommended (the pictures say it all) AFTER you make sure you have a IC compatible fixtu

https://www.google.com/search?q=loft...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Robert

On 5/10/2016 12:43 AM, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 9:09:09 PM UTC-7, Leon wrote:
krw wrote:

Don't stick your finger on the LED. The LEDs themselves get quite
hot.

Actually I have held my finger on countless LEDs, ribbon LEDs, and have
never felt anything.

Your finger is a good heatsink, but a poor sensor. The LEDs produce more heat
than light, and there are other components (resistors, one per three LEDs,
typically on strip lights) that dissipate power, too.

One watt of light is about what a 2 inch magnifier collects on a sunny day;
that would get your finger very toasty, even if there weren't ANY waste heat.


My point is that if my finger can't feel any heat from the LED ribbon or
LED it is not going to be hot enough to burn the wood it is attached to.

On Sun, 08 May 2016 06:22:23 -0500, swalker wrote:

In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim

The light that I am going to use, which will be wired into and
supported by a box is item# 749834 at Lowe's.
I have had conversations with 3 electricians, all of whom do work that
is required to be in accordance with code in several nearby cities and
none said that they would have a concern about insulation being over
the box. None said they have ever received a negative comment about
the method of attachment or wiring from an inspector.
I live in the county and there is no county inspector or permit
requirement but the electrician I am going to use will certify that
all work is to code.

Thanks for the comments.

On 5/11/16 9:34 PM, swalker wrote:
On Sun, 08 May 2016 06:22:23 -0500, swalker wrote:

In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

Thanks

Jim

The light that I am going to use, which will be wired into and
supported by a box is item# 749834 at Lowe's.
I have had conversations with 3 electricians, all of whom do work that
is required to be in accordance with code in several nearby cities and
none said that they would have a concern about insulation being over
the box. None said they have ever received a negative comment about
the method of attachment or wiring from an inspector.
I live in the county and there is no county inspector or permit
requirement but the electrician I am going to use will certify that
all work is to code.

Thanks for the comments.


The installation document for those lights specifies you only need a
box. Being truly flush mount, ceiling insulation doesn't really matter
since it will be on the other side of the drywall. The heat is
dissipated over the body of the lamp as it has no heat dissipation
elements that extend into the ceiling.

If it were me, I'd just do as you have planned. Install a flush mounted
ceiling light fixture box of appropriate volume for the wiring and be
done with it.

=BR

On Tue, 10 May 2016 00:32:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, May 8, 2016 at 6:22:27 AM UTC-5, swalker wrote:
In the new shop I am having built I want to use flush mount LED lights
in the ceiling.

Some folks say I need a can over them because the insulation will be
blown in. I don't know why since the LED lights don't produce much
heat.

Am I missing something or just plain wrong?

You aren't wrong. I took a class last summer on LED lighting as one of my customers was looking into converting about 80 fixtures.

First, it is unbelievable to me just how many poorly made lights and fixtures there are. Worse, they aren't labeled properly, so if you are focused on wattage, energy savings, getting the right Kelvin for your needs, etc., you might forget to get some essentials.

First, get a UL approved fixture if at all possible, and try to get a fixture from a well known manufacturer. Same thing with the bulbs if bought separately. (No need to correct the statement; for purpose of clarity I juxtaposed "bulbs" for Light Emitting Diode".)

My electrician and the guys that gave the seminar all advised to NOT insulate over the fixtures. There are designations that I don't believe are industry standards, but more like lingo such as AT, IC, WT, and a combination of all. AT is air tight, IC is insulation compatible, and WT is water tight. Regardless of designation, I was shown pictures of fires started in ceilings with LEDs that were supposed to be insulation compatible.

Different LEDs do different things, are made to different standards and perform differently from one another in use even though their specs read the same. I wouldn't want a fixture that tested out at XXX degrees of heat when in operation that could develop and few degrees more heat and reach the flashpoint of wood framing or the paper on insulation or anything else that could burn.

My electrician and insulation guys recommend six inches around each light, regardless of its designation.

An easier fix would be what the LED lighting guy recommended (the pictures say it all) AFTER you make sure you have a IC compatible fixtu

https://www.google.com/search?q=loft...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Robert


I didn't see Nailshooter's comments until I had posted my last
comment.
Ponder time.

Jim

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 8:11:05 AM UTC-5, swalker wrote:

I didn't see Nailshooter's comments until I had posted my last
comment.
Ponder time.

Jim

Jim, it's great to gather all the opinions you need that will verify they read the manufacturer's data and concur. Good for the fixture makers that they have an audience. But the fixture isn't the part that generates heat.

Buy a great fixture, and take your chances with the bulb. The fixtures are manufactured to withstand the heat generated by a PROPERLY working LED. The manufacturer of the fixture will assume no responsibility for defective bulbs. 2-3 years ago there was a recall by the government for over a half million bulbs, all manufactured to industry standards, but after many, many failures the gov required an industry recall. All came from one manufacturer, but the lamps were sold under many big brand names.

Now that LEDs are the way to go, who knows how many manufacturers there are and how well the bulbs are made? A few degrees hotter may or may not harm a fixture, and may or may not cause a fire. You can slap the fixtures in, cover them up and take your chances.

The point is that no cover will help much (unless you get those big ceramic hoods) if there is a complete LED failure that causes massive overheating. But since LEDs are manufactured to certain standards that DO NOT include how hot they get when in use, why take that risk?

Why take a chance with your property when protection is so cheap? I am not the wild man some here are, ready to trust Chinese manufacturing standards simply because they put their claims in writing. I wouldn't know what to do if I burned down a client's house because I trusted a box label.

And seriously, isn't your peace of mind worth $15 a light? Just in case your insulator wasn't all that careful, the light fixture was a tiny bit cocked when installed, or the LED lamps you got burned fifty degrees hotter than anticipated... or all three events occurred. (Trust me... I'm a contractor, those things happen even when you are watching your guys...)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tenmat-Recessed-Light-Cover-FF130E/204286308?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D22-Insulation|&gclid=Cj0KEQjw09C5BRDy972s6q2y4egBEiQA 5_guv4TTb4wFiYt1nEJ_2MMYgGghkxEvus1BRj79MZkGX40aAl Tw8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

or

http://goo.gl/6ZQYlH

Robert

On 5/12/16 11:10 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 8:11:05 AM UTC-5, swalker wrote:

I didn't see Nailshooter's comments until I had posted my last
comment.
Ponder time.

Jim

Jim, it's great to gather all the opinions you need that will verify
they read the manufacturer's data and concur. Good for the fixture
makers that they have an audience. But the fixture isn't the part that
generates heat.

Buy a great fixture, and take your chances with the bulb. The
fixtures
are manufactured to withstand the heat generated by a PROPERLY working
LED. The manufacturer of the fixture will assume no responsibility for
defective bulbs. 2-3 years ago there was a recall by the government for
over a half million bulbs, all manufactured to industry standards, but
after many, many failures the gov required an industry recall. All came
from one manufacturer, but the lamps were sold under many big brand names.

Now that LEDs are the way to go, who knows how many manufacturers
there are and how well the bulbs are made? A few degrees hotter may or
may not harm a fixture, and may or may not cause a fire. You can slap
the fixtures in, cover them up and take your chances.

The point is that no cover will help much (unless you get those big
ceramic hoods) if there is a complete LED failure that causes massive
overheating. But since LEDs are manufactured to certain standards that
DO NOT include how hot they get when in use, why take that risk?

Why take a chance with your property when protection is so cheap? I
am
not the wild man some here are, ready to trust Chinese manufacturing
standards simply because they put their claims in writing. I wouldn't
know what to do if I burned down a client's house because I trusted a
box label.

And seriously, isn't your peace of mind worth $15 a light? Just in
case your insulator wasn't all that careful, the light fixture was a
tiny bit cocked when installed, or the LED lamps you got burned fifty
degrees hotter than anticipated... or all three events occurred. (Trust
me... I'm a contractor, those things happen even when you are watching
your guys...)


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Tenmat-Re...m_mmc=Shopping

|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D22-Insulation|&gclid=Cj0KEQjw09C5BRDy972s6q2y4egBEiQA 5_guv4TTb4wFiYt1nEJ_2MMYgGghkxEvus1BRj79MZkGX40aAl Tw8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

or

http://goo.gl/6ZQYlH

Robert

I agree 100% with all this for recessed and/or fixture (removable
'bulb') lights.

The device being installed appears to be a monolithic unit (LED/bulb is
built into the flush mount device). A valid UL listing would cover the
entire device, much like any other device that produces heat. Of course
a UL listing is just to confirm basic safety and doesn't address quality.

-BR