I'm building a post and frame panel bed for my son and his wife. Pretty
straight forward except the size (I've built 2 for us previously). I want
something nicer than plywood for the panels and thought I'd make them
instead. They will be ~15 x 17 and ~18x20 out of red oak. Resawing plain
sawn boards to 1/2 or 5/8" and glueing seem fraught with problems trying to
get them flat. What about resawing the wood to 1/8"+ and glueing them with
contact cement to 1/4" MDF (on both sides)? That would ensure stability and
eliminate movement. I know I have articles in my magazine collection but
finding them is another effort.
Thanks (Yeah I knwo I spel gud. )

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 2:06:40 PM UTC-5, sawdustmaker wrote:
I'm building a post and frame panel bed .... the panels ....will be ~15 x 17 and ~18x20 out of red oak.

I'm assuming 3, at most, panels for each the head & foot boards....

How about leaving the panel boards "standard" thickness/size, for gluing together, and just have your framing members a little thicker, to accommodate/coordinat3e with the thickness of the panels? I wouldn't think the additional weight would make much difference, if that is a consideration. Your panels aren't that large!

Sonny

In article ,
says...

I'm building a post and frame panel bed for my son and his wife. Pretty
straight forward except the size (I've built 2 for us previously). I want
something nicer than plywood for the panels and thought I'd make them
instead. They will be ~15 x 17 and ~18x20 out of red oak. Resawing plain
sawn boards to 1/2 or 5/8" and glueing seem fraught with problems trying to
get them flat. What about resawing the wood to 1/8"+ and glueing them with
contact cement to 1/4" MDF (on both sides)? That would ensure stability and
eliminate movement. I know I have articles in my magazine collection but
finding them is another effort.
Thanks (Yeah I knwo I spel gud. )

I presume the sizes you want are larger than your planer can handle.
Options:

Do it old-school with handplanes--certainly workable but you'll need
decent planes and if you've never done it before you can chew up a lot
of wood learning.

Find some outfit with a big enough planer to do it for you and see what
they'll charge.

Redesign for a panel size that will fit your planer.

With regard to your MDF idea, why not just get some plywood with the
face veneers you want? If you can't find anything locally and you're in
the US, Boulter Plywood should be able to set you up
http://www.boulterplywood.com/.

sawdustmaker wrote in
:

I'm building a post and frame panel bed for my son and his wife.
Pretty straight forward except the size (I've built 2 for us
previously). I want something nicer than plywood for the panels and
thought I'd make them instead. They will be ~15 x 17 and ~18x20 out of
red oak. Resawing plain sawn boards to 1/2 or 5/8" and glueing seem
fraught with problems trying to get them flat. What about resawing the
wood to 1/8"+ and glueing them with contact cement to 1/4" MDF (on
both sides)? That would ensure stability and eliminate movement. I
know I have articles in my magazine collection but finding them is
another effort. Thanks (Yeah I knwo I spel gud. )

If it were me, I'd edge glue the 5/8" boards and use a hand
plane and/or belt sander to get them flat. Assuming you're
careful when you glue the panels up, there should be no
problem with that. 18" by 20" is not a large panel at all.

If you did want to glue up your own plywood, I'd use regular
wood glue, not contact cement.

John

On Sat, 23 Apr 2016 19:06:36 GMT, sawdustmaker
wrote:

I'm building a post and frame panel bed for my son and his wife. Pretty
straight forward except the size (I've built 2 for us previously). I want
something nicer than plywood for the panels and thought I'd make them
instead. They will be ~15 x 17 and ~18x20 out of red oak. Resawing plain
sawn boards to 1/2 or 5/8" and glueing seem fraught with problems trying to
get them flat. What about resawing the wood to 1/8"+ and glueing them with
contact cement to 1/4" MDF (on both sides)? That would ensure stability and
eliminate movement. I know I have articles in my magazine collection but
finding them is another effort.

I think I'd either go all the way with solid panels or "cheat" and use
oak plywood. If the wood is really dry, I might go for the solid wood
but if there is any chance of it warping, plywood is the way to go. I
prefer the Mission (Craftsman) look and would rip the wood into slats
but that's a personal thing.

Thanks (Yeah I knwo I spel gud. )

If it weren't for speelszechers, I cudn's post. But at least I have a
shift and punctuation keys.

On 4/23/16 1:32 PM, Sonny wrote:
On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 2:06:40 PM UTC-5, sawdustmaker wrote:
I'm building a post and frame panel bed .... the panels ....will be ~15 x 17 and ~18x20 out of red oak.

I'm assuming 3, at most, panels for each the head & foot boards....

How about leaving the panel boards "standard" thickness/size, for gluing together,

and just have your framing members a little thicker, to
accommodate/coordinat3e with the thickness of the panels?

I wouldn't think the additional weight would make much difference,

if that is a consideration. Your panels aren't that large!

Sonny


If you can change styles, you could ship-lap joint some boards with a
small V-grooves between the boards.

-BR

On 4/23/2016 2:06 PM, sawdustmaker wrote:

Resawing plain sawn boards

TIP: Quarter sawn wood generally has less movement across it's face than
plain sawn.

IOW, quarter sawn would be more dimensional stable, where you need the
dimensional stability ... across the face of the captured panels for
this specific project.

If you can work that advantage into your design, try to use every
advantage you can get.

What about resawing the wood to 1/8"+ and glueing them with
contact cement to 1/4" MDF (on both sides)?

That will actually work, except you do NOT want to use contact cement,
and you would still want to glue the boards in the panel, edge to edge,
with a good wood glue ... then use a flat mdf substrate to glue to ...
that will get you the flatness you desire ... as long as your substrate
is flat.

With regard to the glue for the "lamination" part:

You will absolutely, and most definitely want to use a "urea resin glue"
.... a product like like Dap's Weldwood Plastic Resin, or Unibond.

That said, the product has a shelf life and can be difficult to find
locally, and still fresh.

Here is a review I wrote on Amazon a few years back that has some tips
on insuring freshness of urea resin glue for the Dap product:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R3D25AL...28013&store=hi

Just to show you that this lamination method for your panels will work
for your frame and panel project, the end panels on this sideboard I
built are done exactly as you describe above, except the hardwood veneer
I used for the panel lamination was 1/2" thick, and was glued to the
substrate with the urea resin glue:

https://goo.gl/photos/RrkvnFBh4tLBXHgY6

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On 4/23/2016 3:06 PM, sawdustmaker wrote:
I'm building a post and frame panel bed for my son and his wife. Pretty
straight forward except the size (I've built 2 for us previously). I want
something nicer than plywood for the panels and thought I'd make them
instead. They will be ~15 x 17 and ~18x20 out of red oak. Resawing plain
sawn boards to 1/2 or 5/8" and glueing seem fraught with problems trying to
get them flat. What about resawing the wood to 1/8"+ and glueing them with
contact cement to 1/4" MDF (on both sides)? That would ensure stability and
eliminate movement. I know I have articles in my magazine collection but
finding them is another effort.
Thanks (Yeah I knwo I spel gud. )


1/8" is too thick for 'veneer' and will cause movement problems and contact
cement is lousy for that sort of work although MDF is a decent substrate.
If you are dead set on going in that direction, why not just buy some good
veneer and use proper wood glue for attaching it. If you don't want the
climb the veneer-jointing curve you can always buy really good looking
paper-backed veneer for the purpose. I really mean to emphasize that
contact cement is NOT for wood-attachment purposes -- I've had a couple of
projects ruined by failures of the sort that it causes.

On 4/24/2016 2:31 PM, BenignBodger wrote:
1/8" is too thick for 'veneer' and will cause movement problems

Except that the OP never mentioned the term "veneer".

But not too thick for what he wants to do, which is basically
"laminating" two or more pieces of material to form a flat, or bendable
surface; in this case flat, with one surface having the attributes of a
particular type of wood.

The term has taken on different connotations in modern times, and if you
get your knowledge solely off Google you would be sorely misinformed as
to the various uses of the process of "lamination".

Everything from bentwood methods, to laminate wooden beams have been
around since the beginning of the wooden ship era and are still in use
today.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote in news:mcOdneilKf5zrIPKnZ2dnUU7-
:

Everything from bentwood methods, to laminate wooden beams have been
around since the beginning of the wooden ship era and are still in use
today.

I have seen some remarkably complex scarfing methods to
make beams for wooden ships, but I can't say I've seen
laminations prior to the WW2 era (i.e. the advent of
modern glues). I'd be interested to see an example of
earlier laminated beams.

John

On 4/25/2016 11:04 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/24/2016 2:31 PM, BenignBodger wrote:
1/8" is too thick for 'veneer' and will cause movement problems

Except that the OP never mentioned the term "veneer".

But not too thick for what he wants to do, which is basically "laminating"
two or more pieces of material to form a flat, or bendable surface; in this
case flat, with one surface having the attributes of a particular type of
wood.

The term has taken on different connotations in modern times, and if you
get your knowledge solely off Google you would be sorely misinformed as to
the various uses of the process of "lamination".

Everything from bentwood methods, to laminate wooden beams have been around
since the beginning of the wooden ship era and are still in use today.


OP describes 1/8" wood and then proceeds to mention adhering it to a
substrate -- that is veneering with exceptionally thick veneer. The problem
here is that MDF is stable and 1/8" oak is not and seasonal changes
restrained only by contact cement will not be sufficient to keep gaps from
opening or puckers from forming. If one laminates multiple layers of thin
wood with identical characteristics and in the same grain direction (AKA
bent laminations which I've used on a few occasions) then there should be
little or no seasonal movement problem (but contact cement is still crap
for this purpose). I was merely pointing out that there is an easy
time-proven method to achieve his desired result -- a flat panel that looks
like solid oak. There _is_ a reason that so much fine furniture over the
centuries has been covered in veneer.

On 4/25/2016 1:44 PM, BenignBodger wrote:
On 4/25/2016 11:04 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/24/2016 2:31 PM, BenignBodger wrote:
1/8" is too thick for 'veneer' and will cause movement problems

Except that the OP never mentioned the term "veneer".

But not too thick for what he wants to do, which is basically
"laminating"

OP describes 1/8" wood and then proceeds to mention adhering it to a
substrate -- that is veneering with exceptionally thick veneer. The
problem here is that MDF is stable and 1/8" oak is not and seasonal
changes restrained only by contact cement will not be sufficient to keep
gaps from opening or puckers from forming.

Nope ... your "problem" is that you didn't bother to read the entire
thread to see what has already been discussed.

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On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:27:04 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Swingman wrote in news:mcOdneilKf5zrIPKnZ2dnUU7-
:

Everything from bentwood methods, to laminate wooden beams have been
around since the beginning of the wooden ship era and are still in use
today.

I have seen some remarkably complex scarfing methods to
make beams for wooden ships, but I can't say I've seen
laminations prior to the WW2 era (i.e. the advent of
modern glues). I'd be interested to see an example of
earlier laminated beams.

John

Then this should interest you. I won't spill the secret but the link
will give it away.

http://wyattmuseum.com/laminated-woo...s-ark/2011-685

On 4/23/2016 3:06 PM, sawdustmaker wrote:
I'm building a post and frame panel bed for my son and his wife. Pretty
straight forward except the size (I've built 2 for us previously). I want
something nicer than plywood for the panels and thought I'd make them
instead. They will be ~15 x 17 and ~18x20 out of red oak. Resawing plain
sawn boards to 1/2 or 5/8" and glueing seem fraught with problems trying to
get them flat. What about resawing the wood to 1/8"+ and glueing them with
contact cement to 1/4" MDF (on both sides)? That would ensure stability and
eliminate movement. I know I have articles in my magazine collection but
finding them is another effort.
Thanks (Yeah I knwo I spel gud. )

Not sure why you want to make your own plywood, it is sold everywhere.

If you want nicer than plywood, then just use 3/4" oak boards. Raised
panels is what makes them nicer than plywood. If you start out with
flat boards, you should end up with flat panels. Expansion and
contraction is handled by leaving space in the grooves holding the panels.

Also, stain and finish the panels before assembly. This not only
insures unstained wood doesn't appear around edges, but will reduce
panel movement with humidity changes. Also, quarter sawn doesn't move
enough to worry about. Personally, I like face sawn for oak panels, it
just looks more interesting than bland quarter/rift sawn oak.

Here is an Oak nightstand I made that has solid, 3/4" Oak panels about
the same size as yours, I believe around 14"x20" panels.. These were
made out of two pieces of 1x8" oak boards glued to make 14" panels.
They are face sawn for visual interest, the worst way to do it as far as
stability goes. I've been doing this for more years than I like to
think, and never had a problem with wood movement doing this.

http://jbstein.com/Flick/NS_2973.JPG

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

OFWW wrote in
:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:27:04 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Swingman wrote in news:mcOdneilKf5zrIPKnZ2dnUU7-
:

Everything from bentwood methods, to laminate wooden beams have been
around since the beginning of the wooden ship era and are still in
use today.

I have seen some remarkably complex scarfing methods to
make beams for wooden ships, but I can't say I've seen
laminations prior to the WW2 era (i.e. the advent of
modern glues). I'd be interested to see an example of
earlier laminated beams.

John

Then this should interest you. I won't spill the secret but the link
will give it away.

http://wyattmuseum.com/laminated-woo...s-ark/2011-685

Well, that was interesting. I don't think that specific piece
of whatever it was was a laminated timber (the site is obviously
on the lunatic fringe and their "archeology" is likely all just
wishful thinking), but further Googling reveals that the ancient
Egyptians apparently laminated cedar (which is, by nature, very
resinous) to make larger planks.

John