On 2/4/2016 11:10 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/4/2016 10:55 AM, -MIKE- wrote:


Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought you were talking about building
smaller cabinet box that would fit inside the existing ones. If that's
correct, I just see that as a heck of a lot more work than cutting down
some spacer blocks and screwing them to the insides of the existing
cabinets.

But again, I may not understand what you meant.

Inserts for face frame cabinets don't have to be boxes, they can be a
anything from a frame, to full casework, depending upon aesthetics, what
needs to be accomplished, and, most importantly, budget.

They can be this simple, or full case work, the principle is the same:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...4 08138140050


That said, do you want to rebuild the drawers?

And, if you want to rebuild the drawers and use some type of insert,
plus the fact that it's a commercial operation and there apparently has
been problems with heavy duty use, would you not be remiss recommending
"heavy duty" drawer slides for any newly built drawers?

Remember, those almost always need 3/4" clearance on either side,
meaning with any type of insert, and the face frames I saw, plus the
required extra clearance, they will lose almost 2" in drawer width.

Only a well informed (by you) client, and his budget, can tell you which
way to go.

Hopefully all this back and forth has been helpful in that regard.


If nothing else another possible solution to future situations.

On 2/4/16 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/4/2016 10:55 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/4/16 12:20 AM, Leon wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 6:41:31 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:

Boy howdy, did they have to pay through the nose

LOL... no wonder we get along so well. A man truly after my own heart.

I don't like it when I get beat on a job, but I really don't like it
if I
get beat because someone used lesser quality materials, lesser build
quality, and inferior design. Still... it happens, certainly part of
the business.

But one should be aware of consequences if they call me to "fix" the
work
of a contractor that got the job. Pricing on repairs of that type
isn't
pretty, but depending on the client's attitude, it can be downright
ugly.

Robert


And exactly why I suggested inserts and shop built. I'm not going to
suffer repairing someone else's screw up.


Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought you were talking about building
smaller cabinet box that would fit inside the existing ones. If that's
correct, I just see that as a heck of a lot more work than cutting down
some spacer blocks and screwing them to the insides of the existing
cabinets.

I believe you understood. BUT for "me" I would rather work with a
guaranteed result of using an insert/box in an existing box/the cabinet
if at all possible. It is worth it to me to work standing up in a shop
with all my tools available and not make quite as much money as hauling
my tools to the location, working with unknowns and unparalleled
cabinets. And that may be more work but work that I prefer to do rather
than test fit, shim, walk out side cut, return and do over and over. and
the customer is not having to deal with me being there for hours on hours.
When I build the insert and often drawers, at the shop, I know before I
deliver that the drawers will work properly and the insert only needs a
couple of anchor screws to hold them in place.

It is just a preference thing for me and that may not be feasible in
your case.


I posted that before reading all the following talk about inserts.
Definitely a technique I'll keep in mind for the future as I see and
appreciate the benefits.
Thanks for participating-- this is all great stuff.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 21:44:23 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 6:41:31 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:

Boy howdy, did they have to pay through the nose

LOL... no wonder we get along so well. A man truly after my own heart.

I don't like it when I get beat on a job, but I really don't like it if I get beat because someone used lesser quality materials, lesser build quality, and inferior design. Still... it happens, certainly part of the business.

But one should be aware of consequences if they call me to "fix" the work of a contractor that got the job. Pricing on repairs of that type isn't pretty, but depending on the client's attitude, it can be downright ugly.

Robert
Boy Howdy if this scenario didn't remind me of some past HVAC jobs.
Beat out by low ballers who were depending on change orders to make a
profit. One case in particular they bid the job for less than the
equipment cost me, and I knew I was getting a better price for the
equipment than they could.

Got a call from the customer, the contractor went belly up, they
wanted us to come finish the job. T&M, I won't even go into all the
details but we made more money off that job than if we had gotten the
contract in the first place. After the job was completed and signed
off, we threw a big party for all our guys for making a really crappy
job good.

On Thu, 4 Feb 2016 00:20:16 -0600, Leon wrote:

wrote:
On Wednesday, February 3, 2016 at 6:41:31 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:

Boy howdy, did they have to pay through the nose

LOL... no wonder we get along so well. A man truly after my own heart.

I don't like it when I get beat on a job, but I really don't like it if I
get beat because someone used lesser quality materials, lesser build
quality, and inferior design. Still... it happens, certainly part of the business.

But one should be aware of consequences if they call me to "fix" the work
of a contractor that got the job. Pricing on repairs of that type isn't
pretty, but depending on the client's attitude, it can be downright ugly.

Robert


And exactly why I suggested inserts and shop built. I'm not going to
suffer repairing someone else's screw up.

YEAH! "favors" can come back to haunt you, good jobs get return
business.

Swingman wrote:
On 2/4/2016 11:18 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Swingman wrote:

Example of the shoddy work I'm talking about these days. The above
was in a 6 year old, $2.1m home, the trim on these cabinets fell off
when the painters were re-staining, and they simply could not have been
used, "as built" for what the client wanted to do.

OK, customers (almost all) wouldn't be able to tell good from bad,
most go only by general appearance, but the GC would. As would
whatever sub made the cabinets. So why such crummy work in a rather
high end home? Were they (GC and sub) just greedy thieves? Incompetent?

In many cases, ALL the above.

Plus many builder's simply do not do the level of supervision
necessary to get an acceptable job out of the semi-skilled labor pool
available
in many locations, and particularly during times of great demand.

And, no secret that many "tract" and "spec" home builders prefer not
to put money where it can't be seen.

The cabinets throughout that house looked great ... and functioned
just long enough to sell.


It does point up a problem that most - including me - have in finding
knowledgable, competent contractors at a fair price. IME,
admittedly not great, probably at least 50% are either looking to
buy a yacht courtesy of me, or don't know up from down. It can be
tough finding a good one. Yes, one can check referrals; trouble is,
those past customers really aren't qualified to judge good from
bad...unless there was a major screwup, they probably will say that
all is fine. Which is why when one DOES find a good one - such as
you or Leon or others here - one should treasure them.

Amen, brother!

Neither Leon, Robert (nor Mike, as he is finding out) really need to
advertise, and likely have to constantly turn work away ... all
attributable mostly to a single trait:

We care about doing the job properly, even to point of losing money if
necessary to so, and we must be able to walk away at the finish
knowing we've provided a first class job.

That's how simple it is.

May your tribe increase, ojala