My neighbor contacted me about touching up some oak baseboards. I looked at a cross-section and see that the current finish does not penetrate into the wood. It looks like the light (yellow/orange) color is in the finish itself.

a) Can somebody give me a clue about know how carpenters
finished trim in houses about 40 years ago.

b) The color is very uniform. If it is just a dye in shellac or lacquer,
can I just clean it and spray or brush on a new coat or do I need
to roughed up it up with steel wool or 320 grit paper and
then apply a new coat of colored shellac or lacquer?

Thanks,
Len

Len wrote:

My neighbor contacted me about touching up some oak baseboards. I
looked at a cross-section and see that the current finish does not
penetrate into the wood. It looks like the light (yellow/orange)
color is in the finish itself.

a) Can somebody give me a clue about know how carpenters
finished trim in houses about 40 years ago.

To the best of my knowledge, they just stained wood and then applied varnish
(or poly). It may be that all they applied is varnish and it has yellowed
with age, and did not even put any stain on it.



b) The color is very uniform. If it is just a dye in shellac or
lacquer, can I just clean it and spray or brush on a new coat or
do I need to roughed up it up with steel wool or 320 grit paper
and then apply a new coat of colored shellac or lacquer?


If it were finished in place, I would expect it to be varnish or poly, and
not lacquer or shelac. Shelac lacks the durability of varnish so I doubt it
would have been used. As for surface prep to apply a new coat of varnish, a
3M pad is all you need. You can use either the grey ones or the burgandy
ones. Just make sure you scuff the surface thoroughly - it should look dull
when you're done scuffing. Don't use steel wool unless you want to fight
with the fibers. Wipe it all down well when you're done - a damp rag will
do well enough - no need for exotic solvents or anything like that. Apply a
fresh coat of poly with a good quality brush and Bob's your uncle. If you
use oil based poly, the finish will yellow over time, and if you use
waterbased poly it won't. You could use lacquer as well but poly is
stronger.

--

-Mike-

Len wrote in
:

My neighbor contacted me about touching up some oak baseboards. I
looked at a cross-section and see that the current finish does not
penetrate into the wood. It looks like the light (yellow/orange)
color is in the finish itself.

a) Can somebody give me a clue about know how carpenters
finished trim in houses about 40 years ago.

40 years ago is 1975, more or less.

b) The color is very uniform. If it is just a dye in shellac or
lacquer,

Polyurethant varnish had been around for a long time by 1975.
It's most likely poly, that has yellowed with time. Possibly
some color was added to the poly.

John

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 00:53:13 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Len wrote in
:

My neighbor contacted me about touching up some oak baseboards. I
looked at a cross-section and see that the current finish does not
penetrate into the wood. It looks like the light (yellow/orange)
color is in the finish itself.

a) Can somebody give me a clue about know how carpenters
finished trim in houses about 40 years ago.

40 years ago is 1975, more or less.

b) The color is very uniform. If it is just a dye in shellac or
lacquer,

Polyurethant varnish had been around for a long time by 1975.
It's most likely poly, that has yellowed with time. Possibly
some color was added to the poly.

John
I'd also strongly suspect a polyurethane varnish - possibly a yellow
shellac or a urethane stain, but not nearly as common as varnish -
urethane or not.

Most houses around here circa 1975 had cheap finger-joint pine with a
thin coat of paint.

On 3/21/2015 7:35 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 00:53:13 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

Len wrote in
:

My neighbor contacted me about touching up some oak baseboards. I
looked at a cross-section and see that the current finish does not
penetrate into the wood. It looks like the light (yellow/orange)
color is in the finish itself.

a) Can somebody give me a clue about know how carpenters
finished trim in houses about 40 years ago.

40 years ago is 1975, more or less.

b) The color is very uniform. If it is just a dye in shellac or
lacquer,

Polyurethant varnish had been around for a long time by 1975.
It's most likely poly, that has yellowed with time. Possibly
some color was added to the poly.

John
I'd also strongly suspect a polyurethane varnish - possibly a yellow
shellac or a urethane stain, but not nearly as common as varnish -
urethane or not.

Most houses around here circa 1975 had cheap finger-joint pine with a
thin coat of paint.


There are hundreds of houses in an addition here (called "Tobin Park")
that have baseboards finished with shellac. "orangish" looking. They
were built in that same time period.

On 03/21/2015 12:45 PM, Len wrote:
My neighbor contacted me about touching up some oak baseboards. I looked at a cross-section and see that the current finish does not penetrate into the wood. It looks like the light (yellow/orange) color is in the finish itself.

a) Can somebody give me a clue about know how carpenters
finished trim in houses about 40 years ago.

b) The color is very uniform. If it is just a dye in shellac or lacquer,
can I just clean it and spray or brush on a new coat or do I need
to roughed up it up with steel wool or 320 grit paper and
then apply a new coat of colored shellac or lacquer?

Start w/ alcohol and test...if it dissolves readily, it's shellac.

If it doesn't, then varnish or lacquer (unlikely in tract housing). A
polyurethane will tend to bead with acetone. After a few seconds,
lacquer will dissolve entirely, varnish will soften and get tacky, the
poly's less than others. May not be absolutely positive on a poly or
not, but certainly definitive for shellac and lacquer. If it will peel
a surface coat off in layer, definitely one of the old poly varnishes.

To get adhesion depends on knowing what it is; applying varnish over
shellac won't work well or vice versa...

--

Len, just my 0.02, so remember what you paid for it when you read this post..

When I refinish or match colors/stains/tints, I don't necessarily try to match the existing type of finish. What....????????

It's almost irrelevant on a finish as old as the one you are talking about. First, the applied finish REGARDLESS of what it is has deteriorated a great deal. It may not look it to you, but trust me on that. Second, applying "the same" finish may not be the same at all. It may look like poly, but could actually be a high grade varnish. Third, regional preferences come into play.

Around here, no one used shellac for anything but sanding sealer... unless they were finishing knotty pine paneling. You can see that amber glow a mile away, which comes with age.

No one used poly around here as poly of 40 years or so ago just didn't behave well under all circumstances. Enter a high quality varnish for our are. It was brushed, sprayed and rolled over raw wood, stained wood, tinted wood, even over distressed wood. Tried, true, reliable in its results, it was the clear finish champ around here .

Around here (again, not speaking for everyone) the finishers used to spray a light coat of stain on wood, then brush finish. Spraying the stain gave a 100% even coloring on oak which is almost impossible when wiping or brushing. The light coat of stain sat on the wood, then a couple of spray coats of varnish finished it up.

The less sophisticated finishers would brush on tinted varnish, then seal it with a clear top coat of varnish. Then the beginning group would apply wipe on stain to miles of trim wasting hours and hours workman time, 3X the coloring material, and the end product was rarely uniform.

If it were me in your shoes, I would test with the highest percent of alcohol I could get my hands on (drugstore stuff probably won't work) to see if the finish is shellac. If it is, sand it lightly with 220gr to break the surface (remember not to go through your color layer!)then clean it with mineral spirits to remove dirt and gunk, allow it to dry for a day, then put poly on it. Two coats.

If it is not shellac, find a corner of the room where the couch sits and sand lightly with 220gr, clean with mineral spirits, apply a test coat of poly, wait as directed and apply a second coat. Wait a week and see if it peels or chips off easily. If not, you are set.

As far as matching color, back in those days we used to use this awful color called "Golden Oak". Everyone had it... it is probably what you are looking at on your trims. Find that and try it out to see how close it is when dry. Remember, you can always thin it down to reduce the amount of color you are applying.

Good luck... let us know what you did and how it turns out.

Robert