Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:c-KdnZgJJLl0dVHJnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 1/31/2015 12:59 AM, Puckdropper wrote:


What it seems a good many people
haven't realized is that after a point formal education holds a person
back.

Hmmm, I've read that a few time and do not understand.. Could you give
an example?


It seems I didn't write it well enough to get my point across. I'll
rewrite it:

After a point, additional schooling just wastes a person's time.

For the type that work with their hands, it's sometimes better to get out
of the classroom and in to the shop where they can make mistakes and
actually engage in learning.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 1/31/2015 4:07 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:c-KdnZgJJLl0dVHJnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 1/31/2015 12:59 AM, Puckdropper wrote:


What it seems a good many people
haven't realized is that after a point formal education holds a person
back.

Hmmm, I've read that a few time and do not understand.. Could you give
an example?


It seems I didn't write it well enough to get my point across. I'll
rewrite it:

After a point, additional schooling just wastes a person's time.

For the type that work with their hands, it's sometimes better to get out
of the classroom and in to the shop where they can make mistakes and
actually engage in learning.

As in, experience is what you get by working and making mistakes because
you don't have the experienceg

Think "book smart."

It's like a lawyer after passing the bar exam. Long on the tools to do
the job but no experience doing the job.

The doctor who got his degree yesterday is NOT going to be my doctor.
Give him a year or two in residency - hopefully in a busy urban ER or in
his/her clinical specialty and you've got something.

I can't think of a profession or career where OJT doesn't make all the
difference in the finished product.

If you speak frankly (or rather if they will speak frankly with you)
most college professors will acknowledge that the college degree today
is not much more than the high school diploma of decades ago.

An extra two years of schooling in community college? Sure, why not.
Two additional years of child care. Local community college established
(via a very nice person) a fund that would cover ALL tuition for two
years at the local community college. The only criteria was graduation
from a local high school (Not GED or alternative day care g) with a, I
think, "C" average.

Nice huh? Help them out, get them working, get away from the sense of
entitlement?

You should have heard the bitching and moaning by a number of ingrates!
"Why the hell should I have to pay for my books and activity fees, etc.?"

On 1/31/2015 5:35 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
If you speak frankly (or rather if they will speak frankly with you)
most college professors will acknowledge that the college degree today
is not much more than the high school diploma of decades ago.

No where is this more evident that in chemistry/analytical laboratory
situations.

When I graduated I went to work for a company in southern Michigan. We
hired GOOD high school graduates for the technician positions in the
lab. By the time I retired, we would not look at a high school graduate.

There were two reasons. One the high school grand could pass the
standardized test but did not have the knowledge to be trained for the
technicians positions.

The second reason was that from a Government Regulatory aspect it was
much easier to convince an regulatory person that the person had the
proper training if we started with a person with a BS or MS degree, and
then trained; them rather than saying we started with a high school
graduate.

Did it make any difference, I have tried to train people that had a
college "Education" that could not comprehend what they read, at least
could not translate what they read in the steps necessary to do the job.

On 1/31/2015 4:50 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/31/2015 5:35 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
If you speak frankly (or rather if they will speak frankly with you)
most college professors will acknowledge that the college degree today
is not much more than the high school diploma of decades ago.

No where is this more evident that in chemistry/analytical laboratory
situations.

Sure. Much less wriggle room in the sciences. Hard to bull**** your
way through the workplace there.

Funny, one my "sources" is #1 daughter, a chemistry prof. She was in AP
courses from 6th grade on. As a junior she wasooking for her undergrad
school she did an overnighter at Knox College - highly rated in the
sciences. Participated in a study group of sophomore chem students that
night. She was feeding them all the answers.

When she went off to undergrad at St Olaf in MN, she basically chilled
the first three semesters before having to get back into the grind.
Finished there with a double major Biology & Chemistry. Then off to the
U of MN and her PhD in Biochemistry.

The kids that she now teaches are good kids but ill-prepared for someone
like her. Would you believe "helicopter parents" in college?

"Look, Julie's grades are slipping. You realize that if she fails your
course, she will be in danger of losing her scholarship?"

Oh well, says my daughter. If Julie doesn't attend class and start
applying herself, she probably will lose the scholarship but it's not
all bad, she won't need it when she flunks out."

Amazing!


When I graduated I went to work for a company in southern Michigan. We
hired GOOD high school graduates for the technician positions in the
lab. By the time I retired, we would not look at a high school graduate.

There were two reasons. One the high school grand could pass the
standardized test but did not have the knowledge to be trained for the
technicians positions.

The second reason was that from a Government Regulatory aspect it was
much easier to convince an regulatory person that the person had the
proper training if we started with a person with a BS or MS degree, and
then trained; them rather than saying we started with a high school
graduate.

Did it make any difference, I have tried to train people that had a
college "Education" that could not comprehend what they read, at least
could not translate what they read in the steps necessary to do the job.

My background is law enforcement and I saw and still see, although
retired, the "new breed" coming up with degrees. Amazing what thought
processes some of them have. Fresh out of the academy and they are
wondering why they have to work patrol instead of an immediate promotion
to Lt or department head - "I do have a degree you know!"

The first six months they spend out on the street with a FTO and then
working those same streets on their own is the best education they will
ever get - if they accept it as such. They soon realize that the degree
means little without the street experience and trial by fire. If they
don't learn it, they leave; typically after getting their butt kicked a
couple three times.

Leon wrote:
On 1/31/2015 12:27 AM, Bill wrote:
Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

*snip*

Simply put, the government wastes so much of the money it collects
that
darn little will actually be spent on the staff.
There will be exceptions but simply look at how the government runs
the
education K-12. Free community college will simply be the new K-16.
Do we really need to put people through 17 years of formal education?
Even
13 years is too much for some people.

I didn't here the president say he was forcing anyone to go
(please pardon me for not reading all of the preceding messages of this
thread). I'm hope you're not saying that you have figured out a way to
filter out some of those who would like to go.

Well I did not listen to him either
FWIW, I DID tune- in to view/listen what he had to say.

but the notion of making yet another thing free, for the taxpayers to
pay for, will with a certainty end up as unsuccessful as most any
thing else the government participates in.

As far as forcing students to go I have a couple of thoughts.
A. There are millions of HS drop outs so the government does not do a
good job at keeping kids in school either. The number of students
that actually attend does not affect the cost to educate them. The
cost is the same whether there are 15 or 30 students in any particular
class.
B. There is a vast number of students that pay for their higher
education and should not be in college. When college students end up
not going into the field in which they studied, what good is that
$60,000 of debt which will take 30 years to pay off with a job paying
$20,000 a year?
C. Countless families will continue to support and let their kids
live at home as long as they are in school. This turns into 4 more
years of HS quality education that the dead beat kid will attend so
that he does not have to gout and support himself.



Again I will say that a free education sounds good but in reality you
often get what you pay for.







What it seems a good many people
haven't realized is that after a point formal education holds a person
back.

*snip*

Puckdropper

On 1/31/2015 5:07 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

It seems I didn't write it well enough to get my point across. I'll
rewrite it:

After a point, additional schooling just wastes a person's time.

For the type that work with their hands, it's sometimes better to get out
of the classroom and in to the shop where they can make mistakes and
actually engage in learning.

Puckdropper


OK, I don't think any education is wasted but agree, at some point you
do have to change priorities and earn your way through life.

"Leon" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Leon wrote:

AND Jeez. Our president wants to make community colleges free to
all!
------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
It's only "FREE" if you maintain a 2.5 GPA.

That's a little tough to do if you are one of the jerk heads you
describe above.
-------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

Well that would make a difference.... Whew! But still, I don't
think you could expect anything much better that a HS teacher
instructing the class.
--------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Why is that?
---------------------------------------------------

Given how much in debt the government is as a base for comparison,
of all the money the tax payers give the government, how much do you
suppose will actually go towards an intended purpose.

Simply put, the government wastes so much of the money it collects
that darn little will actually be spent on the staff.
There will be exceptions but simply look at how the government runs
the education K-12. Free community college will simply be the new
K-16.

Private enterprise will always trump the government in production
and results. Private enterprises have to run efficiently or they
don't exist. This is not true with the government.

While private college professors are not all being paid near what
the colleges collect for tuition I can assure you that a government
paid system is going to pay those professors even less. Where do
you think the smart professors are going to work?
------------------------------------------------------------
You're not old enough to remember the GI Bill offered to vets
returning from WWII.

It was attacked as being a gov't handout; however, in the end it
turned out to be
the best investment the gov't ever made.

It developed a generation of trained college graduates, most of them
were the first
in the their family to graduate, that drove the last half of the 20th
century.

The increase in income taxes paid the direct cost of the program and
the increase
in an educated work force put us on the moon.

This proposed program is aimed at the community college programs.

Programs that are 2 years aimed at directly providing qualified people
to staff
the local market opportunities.

The program is optional. No one is holding a gun to some ones head to
sign up.

Rather it provides a means to attend a community college and learn a
skill set
that is needed in the local area.

It sets the hook to get a degree by requiring that a 2.5 GPA is
maintained to qualify.

Everybody wins on this one including the skeptics who are convinced
that gov't
is a waste.

Yes, the gov't is not the most efficient way of doing some things, but
the do
provide the best way some other things.

Things that the private sector either can not or will not provide.

Even Barry Goldwater recognized that gov't provides a unique service
the
private sector doesn't provide.

Only took him about 3-4 terms to gain that perspective.

Lew

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 4:43:02 AM UTC-10, RonB wrote:

We are rank amateurs!

Amateur does not mean unskilled Don't sell yourself short!

On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 00:27:12 -0600, Bill
wrote:

Puckdropper wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

*snip*

Simply put, the government wastes so much of the money it collects that
darn little will actually be spent on the staff.
There will be exceptions but simply look at how the government runs the
education K-12. Free community college will simply be the new K-16.
Do we really need to put people through 17 years of formal education? Even
13 years is too much for some people.

I didn't here the president say he was forcing anyone to go
(please pardon me for not reading all of the preceding messages of this
thread). I'm hope you're not saying that you have figured out a way to
filter out some of those who would like to go.

If it's paid for by the government it will soon become the standard.
Like a HS diploma now, one won't be able to get a job flippin' burgers
without a 2-year degree. It's the way the world works.

It's a *bad* idea all around. It's probably worse than the college
loan program.

On 1/31/2015 3:07 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:c-KdnZgJJLl0dVHJnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 1/31/2015 12:59 AM, Puckdropper wrote:


What it seems a good many people
haven't realized is that after a point formal education holds a person
back.

Hmmm, I've read that a few time and do not understand.. Could you give
an example?


It seems I didn't write it well enough to get my point across. I'll
rewrite it:

After a point, additional schooling just wastes a person's time.

For the type that work with their hands, it's sometimes better to get out
of the classroom and in to the shop where they can make mistakes and
actually engage in learning.

Puckdropper


I think the dentist I recently visited took your advice.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 18:03:02 -0700, Max wrote:

On 1/31/2015 3:07 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote in news:c-KdnZgJJLl0dVHJnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 1/31/2015 12:59 AM, Puckdropper wrote:


What it seems a good many people
haven't realized is that after a point formal education holds a person
back.

Hmmm, I've read that a few time and do not understand.. Could you give
an example?


It seems I didn't write it well enough to get my point across. I'll
rewrite it:

After a point, additional schooling just wastes a person's time.

For the type that work with their hands, it's sometimes better to get out
of the classroom and in to the shop where they can make mistakes and
actually engage in learning.

Puckdropper


I think the dentist I recently visited took your advice.

I was kinda comforted by the fact that my surgeon has 15 years
experience and does 380 bypasses a year. I really didn't want to be
one of his learning cadavers. ;-)

On 1/31/2015 8:16 PM, wrote:
After a point, additional schooling just wastes a person's time.

For the type that work with their hands, it's sometimes better to get out
of the classroom and in to the shop where they can make mistakes and
actually engage in learning.

Puckdropper


I think the dentist I recently visited took your advice.
I was kinda comforted by the fact that my surgeon has 15 years
experience and does 380 bypasses a year. I really didn't want to be
one of his learning cadavers.;-)

I have never gone to a doctor or dentist that know their subject. The
only thing they will admit to is that they are practicing to be a doctor
or dentist

On Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:01:04 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 1/31/2015 8:16 PM, wrote:
After a point, additional schooling just wastes a person's time.

For the type that work with their hands, it's sometimes better to get out
of the classroom and in to the shop where they can make mistakes and
actually engage in learning.

Puckdropper


I think the dentist I recently visited took your advice.
I was kinda comforted by the fact that my surgeon has 15 years
experience and does 380 bypasses a year. I really didn't want to be
one of his learning cadavers.;-)

I have never gone to a doctor or dentist that know their subject. The
only thing they will admit to is that they are practicing to be a doctor
or dentist

That may be all they're licensed to do by the government. If only the
government were as competent...

On 1/31/2015 5:26 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Leon" wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Leon wrote:

AND Jeez. Our president wants to make community colleges free to
all!
------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
It's only "FREE" if you maintain a 2.5 GPA.

That's a little tough to do if you are one of the jerk heads you
describe above.
-------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

Well that would make a difference.... Whew! But still, I don't
think you could expect anything much better that a HS teacher
instructing the class.
--------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Why is that?
---------------------------------------------------

Given how much in debt the government is as a base for comparison,
of all the money the tax payers give the government, how much do you
suppose will actually go towards an intended purpose.

Simply put, the government wastes so much of the money it collects
that darn little will actually be spent on the staff.
There will be exceptions but simply look at how the government runs
the education K-12. Free community college will simply be the new
K-16.

Private enterprise will always trump the government in production
and results. Private enterprises have to run efficiently or they
don't exist. This is not true with the government.

While private college professors are not all being paid near what
the colleges collect for tuition I can assure you that a government
paid system is going to pay those professors even less. Where do
you think the smart professors are going to work?
------------------------------------------------------------
You're not old enough to remember the GI Bill offered to vets
returning from WWII.

It was attacked as being a gov't handout; however, in the end it
turned out to be
the best investment the gov't ever made.

It developed a generation of trained college graduates, most of them
were the first
in the their family to graduate, that drove the last half of the 20th
century.

The increase in income taxes paid the direct cost of the program and
the increase
in an educated work force put us on the moon.

This proposed program is aimed at the community college programs.

Programs that are 2 years aimed at directly providing qualified people
to staff
the local market opportunities.

The program is optional. No one is holding a gun to some ones head to
sign up.

Rather it provides a means to attend a community college and learn a
skill set
that is needed in the local area.

It sets the hook to get a degree by requiring that a 2.5 GPA is
maintained to qualify.

Everybody wins on this one including the skeptics who are convinced
that gov't
is a waste.

Yes, the gov't is not the most efficient way of doing some things, but
the do
provide the best way some other things.

Things that the private sector either can not or will not provide.

Even Barry Goldwater recognized that gov't provides a unique service
the
private sector doesn't provide.

Only took him about 3-4 terms to gain that perspective.

Lew


But with all due respect, that was not a time of entitlement like it is
now and the government was not as out of control as it is now.

Leon wrote:

AND Jeez. Our president wants to make community colleges free to
all!
------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
It's only "FREE" if you maintain a 2.5 GPA.

That's a little tough to do if you are one of the jerk heads you
describe above.
-------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

Well that would make a difference.... Whew! But still, I don't
think you could expect anything much better that a HS teacher
instructing the class.
--------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Why is that?
---------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

Given how much in debt the government is as a base for comparison,
of all the money the tax payers give the government, how much do you
suppose will actually go towards an intended purpose.

Simply put, the government wastes so much of the money it collects
that darn little will actually be spent on the staff.
There will be exceptions but simply look at how the government runs
the education K-12. Free community college will simply be the new
K-16.

Private enterprise will always trump the government in production
and results. Private enterprises have to run efficiently or they
don't exist. This is not true with the government.

While private college professors are not all being paid near what
the colleges collect for tuition I can assure you that a government
paid system is going to pay those professors even less. Where do
you think the smart professors are going to work?
------------------------------------------------------------
You're not old enough to remember the GI Bill offered to vets
returning from WWII.

It was attacked as being a gov't handout; however, in the end it
turned out to be
the best investment the gov't ever made.

It developed a generation of trained college graduates, most of them
were the first
in the their family to graduate, that drove the last half of the
20th
century.

The increase in income taxes paid the direct cost of the program and
the increase
in an educated work force put us on the moon.

This proposed program is aimed at the community college programs.

Programs that are 2 years aimed at directly providing qualified
people
to staff
the local market opportunities.

The program is optional. No one is holding a gun to some ones head
to
sign up.

Rather it provides a means to attend a community college and learn a
skill set
that is needed in the local area.

It sets the hook to get a degree by requiring that a 2.5 GPA is
maintained to qualify.

Everybody wins on this one including the skeptics who are convinced
that gov't
is a waste.

Yes, the gov't is not the most efficient way of doing some things,
but
the do
provide the best way some other things.

Things that the private sector either can not or will not provide.

Even Barry Goldwater recognized that gov't provides a unique service
the
private sector doesn't provide.

Only took him about 3-4 terms to gain that perspective.

Lew
------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

But with all due respect, that was not a time of entitlement like it
is now and the government was not as out of control as it is now.
---------------------------------------------------------
Pray tell what the devil arre you talking about?

Lew

On Sun, 1 Feb 2015 14:26:50 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

Leon wrote:

AND Jeez. Our president wants to make community colleges free to
all!
------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
It's only "FREE" if you maintain a 2.5 GPA.

That's a little tough to do if you are one of the jerk heads you
describe above.
-------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

Well that would make a difference.... Whew! But still, I don't
think you could expect anything much better that a HS teacher
instructing the class.
--------------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:

Why is that?
---------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

Given how much in debt the government is as a base for comparison,
of all the money the tax payers give the government, how much do you
suppose will actually go towards an intended purpose.

Simply put, the government wastes so much of the money it collects
that darn little will actually be spent on the staff.
There will be exceptions but simply look at how the government runs
the education K-12. Free community college will simply be the new
K-16.

Private enterprise will always trump the government in production
and results. Private enterprises have to run efficiently or they
don't exist. This is not true with the government.

While private college professors are not all being paid near what
the colleges collect for tuition I can assure you that a government
paid system is going to pay those professors even less. Where do
you think the smart professors are going to work?
------------------------------------------------------------
You're not old enough to remember the GI Bill offered to vets
returning from WWII.

It was attacked as being a gov't handout; however, in the end it
turned out to be
the best investment the gov't ever made.

It developed a generation of trained college graduates, most of them
were the first
in the their family to graduate, that drove the last half of the
20th
century.

The increase in income taxes paid the direct cost of the program and
the increase
in an educated work force put us on the moon.

This proposed program is aimed at the community college programs.

Programs that are 2 years aimed at directly providing qualified
people
to staff
the local market opportunities.

The program is optional. No one is holding a gun to some ones head
to
sign up.

Rather it provides a means to attend a community college and learn a
skill set
that is needed in the local area.

It sets the hook to get a degree by requiring that a 2.5 GPA is
maintained to qualify.

Everybody wins on this one including the skeptics who are convinced
that gov't
is a waste.

Yes, the gov't is not the most efficient way of doing some things,
but
the do
provide the best way some other things.

Things that the private sector either can not or will not provide.

Even Barry Goldwater recognized that gov't provides a unique service
the
private sector doesn't provide.

Only took him about 3-4 terms to gain that perspective.

Lew
------------------------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

But with all due respect, that was not a time of entitlement like it
is now and the government was not as out of control as it is now.
---------------------------------------------------------
Pray tell what the devil arre you talking about?

$18T debt. 50% of kids on public assistance. The wholesale shredding
of the Constitution. ...just a few examples.

On 2/1/2015 6:29 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 1 Feb 2015 14:26:50 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"


Pray tell what the devil arre you talking about?

$18T debt. 50% of kids on public assistance. The wholesale shredding
of the Constitution. ...just a few examples.

College police forces with MRAPS; NSA sucking up your privacy; license
plate readers tracking your locations; SWAT teams raiding Mom & Pop
farms and homes, shooting the old folks dogs, for selling raw milk or
planting vegetables in the front yard; LEO 'asset forfeiture' programs,
nothing more than a license to steal with no crime committed; TSA
stealing from your luggage, and harassing 80 year old ladies in wheel
chairs; Homes invasions by LEO with no knock warrants, without regard to
having the correct address...

....ad infinitum.


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sun, 01 Feb 2015 19:18:30 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 2/1/2015 6:29 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 1 Feb 2015 14:26:50 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"


Pray tell what the devil arre you talking about?

$18T debt. 50% of kids on public assistance. The wholesale shredding
of the Constitution. ...just a few examples.

College police forces with MRAPS; NSA sucking up your privacy; license
plate readers tracking your locations; SWAT teams raiding Mom & Pop
farms and homes, shooting the old folks dogs, for selling raw milk or
planting vegetables in the front yard; LEO 'asset forfeiture' programs,
nothing more than a license to steal with no crime committed; TSA
stealing from your luggage, and harassing 80 year old ladies in wheel
chairs; Homes invasions by LEO with no knock warrants, without regard to
having the correct address...

...ad infinitum.

Just GladI'm old as it's like they're try to turn this country into a
beehive.

Mike M

On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 20:58:26 -0800, Mike M
wrote:

On Sun, 01 Feb 2015 19:18:30 -0600, Swingman wrote:

On 2/1/2015 6:29 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 1 Feb 2015 14:26:50 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"


Pray tell what the devil arre you talking about?

$18T debt. 50% of kids on public assistance. The wholesale shredding
of the Constitution. ...just a few examples.

College police forces with MRAPS; NSA sucking up your privacy; license
plate readers tracking your locations; SWAT teams raiding Mom & Pop
farms and homes, shooting the old folks dogs, for selling raw milk or
planting vegetables in the front yard; LEO 'asset forfeiture' programs,
nothing more than a license to steal with no crime committed; TSA
stealing from your luggage, and harassing 80 year old ladies in wheel
chairs; Homes invasions by LEO with no knock warrants, without regard to
having the correct address...

...ad infinitum.

Just GladI'm old as it's like they're try to turn this country into a
beehive.

Nah, bees produce something useful.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Pray tell what the devil arre you talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

College police forces with MRAPS; NSA sucking up your privacy;
license plate readers tracking your locations; SWAT teams raiding
Mom & Pop farms and homes, shooting the old folks dogs, for selling
raw milk or planting vegetables in the front yard; LEO 'asset
forfeiture' programs, nothing more than a license to steal with no
crime committed; TSA stealing from your luggage, and harassing 80
year old ladies in wheel chairs; Homes invasions by LEO with no
knock warrants, without regard to having the correct address...

...ad infinitum.
---------------------------------------------------
There is an old adage in the debate business.

When you have the facts, use them.

When you don't have the facts, dig up all the crap you can, throw
it up on the wall and see if something will stick.

Lots of crap got tossed up on the wall, but nothing stuck.

Hint: Paranoia doesn't count.

Lew

On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 16:58:15 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Pray tell what the devil arre you talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

College police forces with MRAPS; NSA sucking up your privacy;
license plate readers tracking your locations; SWAT teams raiding
Mom & Pop farms and homes, shooting the old folks dogs, for selling
raw milk or planting vegetables in the front yard; LEO 'asset
forfeiture' programs, nothing more than a license to steal with no
crime committed; TSA stealing from your luggage, and harassing 80
year old ladies in wheel chairs; Homes invasions by LEO with no
knock warrants, without regard to having the correct address...

...ad infinitum.
---------------------------------------------------
There is an old adage in the debate business.

There is another; "if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance,
baffle them with your bull****."

When you have the facts, use them.

When you don't have the facts, dig up all the crap you can, throw
it up on the wall and see if something will stick.

Lots of crap got tossed up on the wall, but nothing stuck.

Hint: Paranoia doesn't count.

..End of bull****
Lew

On 2/3/2015 7:58 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

--
"Swingman" wrote:

College police forces with MRAPS; NSA sucking up your privacy;
license plate readers tracking your locations;

---------------------------------------------------
There is an old adage in the debate business.

When you have the facts, use them.

When you don't have the facts, dig up all the crap you can, throw
it up on the wall and see if something will stick.

Lots of crap got tossed up on the wall, but nothing stuck.

Hint: Paranoia doesn't count.

Lew

So, then license plate readers don't exitr?

On 2/3/2015 6:58 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Pray tell what the devil arre you talking about?
----------------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

College police forces with MRAPS; NSA sucking up your privacy;
license plate readers tracking your locations; SWAT teams raiding
Mom & Pop farms and homes, shooting the old folks dogs, for selling
raw milk or planting vegetables in the front yard; LEO 'asset
forfeiture' programs, nothing more than a license to steal with no
crime committed; TSA stealing from your luggage, and harassing 80
year old ladies in wheel chairs; Homes invasions by LEO with no
knock warrants, without regard to having the correct address...

...ad infinitum.
---------------------------------------------------
There is an old adage in the debate business.

When you have the facts, use them.

When you don't have the facts, dig up all the crap you can, throw
it up on the wall and see if something will stick.

Lots of crap got tossed up on the wall, but nothing stuck.

Hint: Paranoia doesn't count.

Lew








Not accepting the truth, possibly because of the Kool-Aid you have been
drinking, does not mean that it is not the truth.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 06:42:57 -0800 (PST)
RonB wrote:

We are rank amateurs!

Not rank amateurs from what you describe just born into a different
era. There are still a lot of craftsmen around the world that do things
manually. There's a guy that turns chess pieces and uses his feet

In article , Leon
lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Our president wants to make community colleges free to all!

Colleges and universities are a hotbed of sexual predation and
assaults... and everybody should be able to go there free!

More tortured logic from the Left...

--
³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness
sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes