A few weeks ago I posted a questions regarding lightening the color of an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes back at least 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

This morning I am sipping my coffee and getting ready to apply the 4th coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly well. I am doing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15" surface planer, 5hp table saw, wood lathe and other power and hand tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and general tinkering.

A project like this gave me lots of reasons to think. The table is made of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully combined. I wonder if material use was really artistic or just the use of available material in a small, shop. The red oak top is made of 4" wide boards that were edge joined with a modified tongue and groove edge. The under-frame and slide mechanism, that allows it to be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these parts on the table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool marks even after years of use.

Then the legs. The table has five 4" diameter lathe turned legs. The top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to me they are not duplicates. They are damned near duplicates--but there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the lathe was loaded five times for five legs. Then I looked over at the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head wondering if these pieces of craftsmanship were turned on a water or foot operated machine.

My wife and I have built a few pretty nice projects over our years including some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled well . We have also finished out our entire home.

We are rank amateurs!

RonB

On 1/29/2015 8:42 AM, RonB wrote:
A few weeks ago I posted a questions regarding lightening the color of an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes back at least 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

This morning I am sipping my coffee and getting ready to apply the 4th coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly well. I am doing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15" surface planer, 5hp table saw, wood lathe and other power and hand tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and general tinkering.

A project like this gave me lots of reasons to think. The table is made of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully combined. I wonder if material use was really artistic or just the use of available material in a small, shop. The red oak top is made of 4" wide boards that were edge joined with a modified tongue and groove edge. The under-frame and slide mechanism, that allows it to be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these parts on the table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool marks even after years of use.

Then the legs. The table has five 4" diameter lathe turned legs. The top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to me they are not duplicates. They are damned near duplicates--but there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the lathe was loaded five times for five legs. Then I looked over at the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head wondering if these pieces of craftsmanship were turned on a water or foot operated machine.

My wife and I have built a few pretty nice projects over our years including some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled well . We have also finished out our entire home.

We are rank amateurs!

RonB


Take heart in knowing that back then it was probably a more common thing
for people to know how to do this type work and the opportunity to learn
or be taught was more available then as it is today.
Surely, regardless of the tools used, there are forgotten tricks and
techniques that made those tools of 100 years ago more effective in the
hands of the craftsman than now with few left that may know those
techniques. Think about the great pyramids. ;~)


On the other hand, most of us today are self taught, and that is a
testament to accomplishment too.

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:04:53 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:


Take heart in knowing that back then it was probably a more common thing
for people to know how to do this type work and the opportunity to learn
or be taught was more available then as it is today.
Surely, regardless of the tools used, there are forgotten tricks and
techniques that made those tools of 100 years ago more effective in the
hands of the craftsman than now with few left that may know those
techniques.

On the other hand, most of us today are self taught, and that is a
testament to accomplishment too.

Yep. And on a, somewhat, similar note, my niece's son once ask me to make a new Harry Potter magic wand.... he had broken his.... with braided-carved handle, kinna like gunstock carvings. That carving wasn't so easy a job as I had initially thought it would be.

Sonny

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:04:53 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2015 8:42 AM, RonB wrote:
A few weeks ago I posted a questions regarding lightening the color of an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes back at least 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

This morning I am sipping my coffee and getting ready to apply the 4th coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly well. I am doing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15" surface planer, 5hp table saw, wood lathe and other power and hand tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and general tinkering.

A project like this gave me lots of reasons to think. The table is made of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully combined. I wonder if material use was really artistic or just the use of available material in a small, shop. The red oak top is made of 4" wide boards that were edge joined with a modified tongue and groove edge. The under-frame and slide mechanism, that allows it to be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these parts on the table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool marks even after years of use.

Then the legs. The table has five 4" diameter lathe turned legs. The top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to me they are not duplicates. They are damned near duplicates--but there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the lathe was loaded five times for five legs. Then I looked over at the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head wondering if these pieces of craftsmanship were turned on a water or foot operated machine.

My wife and I have built a few pretty nice projects over our years including some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled well . We have also finished out our entire home.

We are rank amateurs!

RonB


Take heart in knowing that back then it was probably a more common thing
for people to know how to do this type work and the opportunity to learn
or be taught was more available then as it is today.
Surely, regardless of the tools used, there are forgotten tricks and
techniques that made those tools of 100 years ago more effective in the
hands of the craftsman than now with few left that may know those
techniques. Think about the great pyramids. ;~)


On the other hand, most of us today are self taught, and that is a
testament to accomplishment too.

You hit on a very important and unfortunate point Leon. The "opportunity" to learn. I know of a few young ones that would like to take some woodworking classes in junior high or high school. I only know of one that that the opportunity that I had when I was young. For various reasons, liability being the main one, schools have dropped wood classes with no plans to get back in. The old, really old, Unisaw that I used in high school is sitting at the end of the current agriculture shop being use for occasional cutoff work or as a table. The instructor is wood-trained but said the schools don't want to take on the liability of a kid getting injured - football is OK, but not woodworking. She also said the introduction of Saw Stop technology isn't helping because the smaller programs cannot afford to replace perfectly good Unisaws with new machines.

Very unfortunate in our area. Pittsburg State University (Kansas) is 35 miles away and they have one of the top woodworking programs in the country. Westhoff Interiors, a leading Yacht interior company, is on the north edge of our town. Westhoff draws some kids into training programs but their best trained come from Pitt State, which in turn pulls students from other areas. Other than the Joplin area there are few local opportunities for wood classes.

Ron

On 1/29/2015 10:05 AM, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:04:53 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2015 8:42 AM, RonB wrote:
A few weeks ago I posted a questions regarding lightening the color of an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes back at least 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

This morning I am sipping my coffee and getting ready to apply the 4th coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly well. I am doing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15" surface planer, 5hp table saw, wood lathe and other power and hand tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and general tinkering.

A project like this gave me lots of reasons to think. The table is made of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully combined. I wonder if material use was really artistic or just the use of available material in a small, shop. The red oak top is made of 4" wide boards that were edge joined with a modified tongue and groove edge. The under-frame and slide mechanism, that allows it to be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these parts on the table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool marks even after years of use.

Then the legs. The table has five 4" diameter lathe turned legs. The top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to me they are not duplicates. They are damned near duplicates--but there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the lathe was loaded five times for five legs. Then I looked over at the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head wondering if these pieces of craftsmanship were turned on a water or foot operated machine.

My wife and I have built a few pretty nice projects over our years including some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled well . We have also finished out our entire home.

We are rank amateurs!

RonB


Take heart in knowing that back then it was probably a more common thing
for people to know how to do this type work and the opportunity to learn
or be taught was more available then as it is today.
Surely, regardless of the tools used, there are forgotten tricks and
techniques that made those tools of 100 years ago more effective in the
hands of the craftsman than now with few left that may know those
techniques. Think about the great pyramids. ;~)


On the other hand, most of us today are self taught, and that is a
testament to accomplishment too.

You hit on a very important and unfortunate point Leon. The "opportunity" to learn. I know of a few young ones that would like to take some woodworking classes in junior high or high school. I only know of one that that the opportunity that I had when I was young. For various reasons, liability being the main one, schools have dropped wood classes with no plans to get back in. The old, really old, Unisaw that I used in high school is sitting at the end of the current agriculture shop being use for occasional cutoff work or as a table. The instructor is wood-trained but said the schools don't want to take on the liability of a kid getting injured - football is OK, but not woodworking. She also said the introduction of Saw Stop technology isn't helping because the smaller programs cannot afford to replace perfectly good Unisaws with new machines.

Very unfortunate in our area. Pittsburg State University (Kansas) is 35 miles away and they have one of the top woodworking programs in the country. Westhoff Interiors, a leading Yacht interior company, is on the north edge of our town. Westhoff draws some kids into training programs but their best trained come from Pitt State, which in turn pulls students from other areas. Other than the Joplin area there are few local opportunities for wood classes.

Ron


It is sad. Our country is becoming soooooo politically correct and
recklessness letting the lawyers go after any one that might do
something as simple as teach some one how to strike a match that we are
loosing the ability to actually think and innovate. Let alone do for
ourselves.
The thinking that it would be too expensive to spend $5K to replace a
new saw is ludicrous. The life long skills that could be taught in a
wood shop would be thousands of times less expensive than incarcerating
those that have no other skill and peddle crack on the street corner.
For some odd reason our mentality is switching over to the idea of
knowing how to do "ONE" thing that requires no thinking.
The grocery store cashier from the 70's would look like a genius
compared to those that take you money these days.

On 1/29/2015 2:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2015 10:05 AM, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:04:53 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2015 8:42 AM, RonB wrote:
A few weeks ago I posted a questions regarding lightening the color
of an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes
back at least 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and
stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

This morning I am sipping my coffee and getting ready to apply the
4th coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly
well. I am doing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15"
surface planer, 5hp table saw, wood lathe and other power and hand
tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and
general tinkering.

A project like this gave me lots of reasons to think. The table is
made of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully
combined. I wonder if material use was really artistic or just the
use of available material in a small, shop. The red oak top is made
of 4" wide boards that were edge joined with a modified tongue and
groove edge. The under-frame and slide mechanism, that allows it to
be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail
slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these parts on the
table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool marks
even after years of use.

Then the legs. The table has five 4" diameter lathe turned legs.
The top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with
decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn
design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish
with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side
before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to
me they are not duplicates. They are damned near duplicates--but
there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the
coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed
variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the
lathe was loaded five times for five legs. Then I looked over at
the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head
wondering if these pieces of craftsmanship were turned on a water or
foot operated machine.

My wife and I have built a few pretty nice projects over our years
including some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled
well . We have also finished out our entire home.

We are rank amateurs!

RonB


Take heart in knowing that back then it was probably a more common thing
for people to know how to do this type work and the opportunity to learn
or be taught was more available then as it is today.
Surely, regardless of the tools used, there are forgotten tricks and
techniques that made those tools of 100 years ago more effective in the
hands of the craftsman than now with few left that may know those
techniques. Think about the great pyramids. ;~)


On the other hand, most of us today are self taught, and that is a
testament to accomplishment too.

You hit on a very important and unfortunate point Leon. The
"opportunity" to learn. I know of a few young ones that would like to
take some woodworking classes in junior high or high school. I only
know of one that that the opportunity that I had when I was young.
For various reasons, liability being the main one, schools have
dropped wood classes with no plans to get back in. The old, really
old, Unisaw that I used in high school is sitting at the end of the
current agriculture shop being use for occasional cutoff work or as a
table. The instructor is wood-trained but said the schools don't want
to take on the liability of a kid getting injured - football is OK,
but not woodworking. She also said the introduction of Saw Stop
technology isn't helping because the smaller programs cannot afford to
replace perfectly good Unisaws with new machines.

Very unfortunate in our area. Pittsburg State University (Kansas) is
35 miles away and they have one of the top woodworking programs in the
country. Westhoff Interiors, a leading Yacht interior company, is on
the north edge of our town. Westhoff draws some kids into training
programs but their best trained come from Pitt State, which in turn
pulls students from other areas. Other than the Joplin area there are
few local opportunities for wood classes.

Ron


It is sad. Our country is becoming soooooo politically correct and
recklessness letting the lawyers go after any one that might do
something as simple as teach some one how to strike a match that we are
loosing the ability to actually think and innovate. Let alone do for
ourselves.
The thinking that it would be too expensive to spend $5K to replace a
new saw is ludicrous. The life long skills that could be taught in a
wood shop would be thousands of times less expensive than incarcerating
those that have no other skill and peddle crack on the street corner.
For some odd reason our mentality is switching over to the idea of
knowing how to do "ONE" thing that requires no thinking.
The grocery store cashier from the 70's would look like a genius
compared to those that take you money these days.



AND Jeez. Our president wants to make community colleges free to all!

I can appreciate the gesture but that is only going to appeal to those
that should not be going to college in the first place.
A free college for all will be no different than adding more years to
high school. It will be free so the vast majority that did not want to
be in school in the first place will be there taking up space. I am of
the firm belief that 90% of the students that don't directly pay for
their higher education will get less from it, what do they have to
loose? If you want a lower quality education choose one that is funded
by the tax payers. If you want a lower quality health care system,
choose one funded by the tax payers.

I will get down off of my soap box. ;~)

AND I did not mean to hi-jack your thread, I did appreciate your
thoughts on how much more adapt we as a society were 100 years ago.

Leon wrote:

AND Jeez. Our president wants to make community colleges free to
all!

I can appreciate the gesture but that is only going to appeal to
those that should not be going to college in the first place.
A free college for all will be no different than adding more years
to high school. It will be free so the vast majority that did not
want to be in school in the first place will be there taking up
space. I am of the firm belief that 90% of the students that don't
directly pay for their higher education will get less from it, what
do they have to loose? If you want a lower quality education choose
one that is funded by the tax payers. If you want a lower quality
health care system, choose one funded by the tax payers.
------------------------------------------------
It's only "FREE" if you maintain a 2.5 GPA.

That's a little tough to do if you are one of the jerk heads you
describe above.

Lew

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 14:27:11 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 1/29/2015 2:07 PM, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2015 10:05 AM, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:04:53 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2015 8:42 AM, RonB wrote:
A few weeks ago I posted a questions regarding lightening the color
of an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes
back at least 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and
stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

This morning I am sipping my coffee and getting ready to apply the
4th coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly
well. I am doing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15"
surface planer, 5hp table saw, wood lathe and other power and hand
tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and
general tinkering.

A project like this gave me lots of reasons to think. The table is
made of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully
combined. I wonder if material use was really artistic or just the
use of available material in a small, shop. The red oak top is made
of 4" wide boards that were edge joined with a modified tongue and
groove edge. The under-frame and slide mechanism, that allows it to
be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail
slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these parts on the
table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool marks
even after years of use.

Then the legs. The table has five 4" diameter lathe turned legs.
The top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with
decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn
design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish
with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side
before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to
me they are not duplicates. They are damned near duplicates--but
there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the
coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed
variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the
lathe was loaded five times for five legs. Then I looked over at
the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head
wondering if these pieces of craftsmanship were turned on a water or
foot operated machine.

My wife and I have built a few pretty nice projects over our years
including some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled
well . We have also finished out our entire home.

We are rank amateurs!

RonB


Take heart in knowing that back then it was probably a more common thing
for people to know how to do this type work and the opportunity to learn
or be taught was more available then as it is today.
Surely, regardless of the tools used, there are forgotten tricks and
techniques that made those tools of 100 years ago more effective in the
hands of the craftsman than now with few left that may know those
techniques. Think about the great pyramids. ;~)


On the other hand, most of us today are self taught, and that is a
testament to accomplishment too.

You hit on a very important and unfortunate point Leon. The
"opportunity" to learn. I know of a few young ones that would like to
take some woodworking classes in junior high or high school. I only
know of one that that the opportunity that I had when I was young.
For various reasons, liability being the main one, schools have
dropped wood classes with no plans to get back in. The old, really
old, Unisaw that I used in high school is sitting at the end of the
current agriculture shop being use for occasional cutoff work or as a
table. The instructor is wood-trained but said the schools don't want
to take on the liability of a kid getting injured - football is OK,
but not woodworking. She also said the introduction of Saw Stop
technology isn't helping because the smaller programs cannot afford to
replace perfectly good Unisaws with new machines.

Very unfortunate in our area. Pittsburg State University (Kansas) is
35 miles away and they have one of the top woodworking programs in the
country. Westhoff Interiors, a leading Yacht interior company, is on
the north edge of our town. Westhoff draws some kids into training
programs but their best trained come from Pitt State, which in turn
pulls students from other areas. Other than the Joplin area there are
few local opportunities for wood classes.

Ron


It is sad. Our country is becoming soooooo politically correct and
recklessness letting the lawyers go after any one that might do
something as simple as teach some one how to strike a match that we are
loosing the ability to actually think and innovate. Let alone do for
ourselves.
The thinking that it would be too expensive to spend $5K to replace a
new saw is ludicrous. The life long skills that could be taught in a
wood shop would be thousands of times less expensive than incarcerating
those that have no other skill and peddle crack on the street corner.
For some odd reason our mentality is switching over to the idea of
knowing how to do "ONE" thing that requires no thinking.
The grocery store cashier from the 70's would look like a genius
compared to those that take you money these days.



AND Jeez. Our president wants to make community colleges free to all!

I can appreciate the gesture but that is only going to appeal to those
that should not be going to college in the first place.
A free college for all will be no different than adding more years to
high school. It will be free so the vast majority that did not want to
be in school in the first place will be there taking up space. I am of
the firm belief that 90% of the students that don't directly pay for
their higher education will get less from it, what do they have to
loose? If you want a lower quality education choose one that is funded
by the tax payers. If you want a lower quality health care system,
choose one funded by the tax payers.

If you think a college education is expensive now, just wait until
it's free!

Was listening to a talk show about this exact issue yesterday. The
host had gone to Germany to participate in an education seminar. The
German participants, without exception, agreed with you.

I will get down off of my soap box. ;~)

AND I did not mean to hi-jack your thread, I did appreciate your
thoughts on how much more adapt we as a society were 100 years ago.

In article , Leon
lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

Our president wants to make community colleges free to all!

Colleges and universities are a hotbed of sexual predation and
assaults... and everybody should be able to go there free!

More tortured logic from the Left...

--
³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness
sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes

On 1/29/2015 3:07 PM, Leon wrote:
The life long skills that could be taught in a wood shop would be
thousands of times less expensive than incarcerating those that have no
other skill and peddle crack on the street corner. For some odd reason
our mentality is switching over to the idea of knowing how to do "ONE"
thing that requires no thinking.

You can not suppress an educated independent population

On 1/29/2015 4:21 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 1/29/2015 3:07 PM, Leon wrote:
The life long skills that could be taught in a wood shop would be
thousands of times less expensive than incarcerating those that have no
other skill and peddle crack on the street corner. For some odd reason
our mentality is switching over to the idea of knowing how to do "ONE"
thing that requires no thinking.

You can not suppress an educated independent population

Depends upon who is in charge of the educating and what their agenda is.

This country has had more money thrown at education than ever before in
human history (Detroit school system a case in point), is more
suppressed than ever with rights continually under assault by the
government and militarized police forces, with more folks in jail (many
corporate, for profit systems), more in poverty, and the majority so
poorly educated, to the point of barely being qualified to flip burgers,
that we must rely on visas to fill the spots that require something
other than a basket weaving curriculum.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 2:07:26 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2015 10:05 AM, RonB wrote:
On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 9:04:53 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 1/29/2015 8:42 AM, RonB wrote:
A few weeks ago I posted a questions regarding lightening the color of an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes back at least 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

This morning I am sipping my coffee and getting ready to apply the 4th coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly well. I am doing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15" surface planer, 5hp table saw, wood lathe and other power and hand tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and general tinkering.

A project like this gave me lots of reasons to think. The table is made of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully combined. I wonder if material use was really artistic or just the use of available material in a small, shop. The red oak top is made of 4" wide boards that were edge joined with a modified tongue and groove edge. The under-frame and slide mechanism, that allows it to be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these parts on the table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool marks even after years of use.

Then the legs. The table has five 4" diameter lathe turned legs. The top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to me they are not duplicates. They are damned near duplicates--but there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the lathe was loaded five times for five legs. Then I looked over at the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head wondering if these pieces of craftsmanship were turned on a water or foot operated machine.

My wife and I have built a few pretty nice projects over our years including some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled well . We have also finished out our entire home.

We are rank amateurs!

RonB


Take heart in knowing that back then it was probably a more common thing
for people to know how to do this type work and the opportunity to learn
or be taught was more available then as it is today.
Surely, regardless of the tools used, there are forgotten tricks and
techniques that made those tools of 100 years ago more effective in the
hands of the craftsman than now with few left that may know those
techniques. Think about the great pyramids. ;~)


On the other hand, most of us today are self taught, and that is a
testament to accomplishment too.

You hit on a very important and unfortunate point Leon. The "opportunity" to learn. I know of a few young ones that would like to take some woodworking classes in junior high or high school. I only know of one that that the opportunity that I had when I was young. For various reasons, liability being the main one, schools have dropped wood classes with no plans to get back in. The old, really old, Unisaw that I used in high school is sitting at the end of the current agriculture shop being use for occasional cutoff work or as a table. The instructor is wood-trained but said the schools don't want to take on the liability of a kid getting injured - football is OK, but not woodworking. She also said the introduction of Saw Stop technology isn't helping because the smaller programs cannot afford to replace perfectly good Unisaws with new machines.

Very unfortunate in our area. Pittsburg State University (Kansas) is 35 miles away and they have one of the top woodworking programs in the country. Westhoff Interiors, a leading Yacht interior company, is on the north edge of our town. Westhoff draws some kids into training programs but their best trained come from Pitt State, which in turn pulls students from other areas. Other than the Joplin area there are few local opportunities for wood classes.

Ron


It is sad. Our country is becoming soooooo politically correct and
recklessness letting the lawyers go after any one that might do
something as simple as teach some one how to strike a match that we are
loosing the ability to actually think and innovate. Let alone do for
ourselves.
The thinking that it would be too expensive to spend $5K to replace a
new saw is ludicrous. The life long skills that could be taught in a
wood shop would be thousands of times less expensive than incarcerating
those that have no other skill and peddle crack on the street corner.
For some odd reason our mentality is switching over to the idea of
knowing how to do "ONE" thing that requires no thinking.
The grocery store cashier from the 70's would look like a genius
compared to those that take you money these days.

Yeah but budgets is budgets and rural schools, such as ours, feel the crunch. We have an excellent school that only exists because locals came up with a large amount of cash to supplement a bond issue to build a needed high school. Our alumni association manages a portfolio that pays a $30K annual payment against the bond and at the end of the 30 year bond period we will pay off the rest. We run fund raisers and beg to get together enough cash for lights for a baseball field. Then we hear about the poor KC area schools who are afraid they might not be able to afford an indoor practice facility until next year. Academic metrics for our school are among the best but we struggle constantly for survival.

Oh Well. I guess that was a digression. )

On 1/29/15, 9:05 AM, RonB wrote:


You hit on a very important and unfortunate point Leon. The "opportunity" to learn.

Key point.
My junior HS taught woodworking, had a metal shop where we would do tin
work, lathe work and aluminum casting, small engine shop, building
trades, etc. HS had the auto shop stuff, drafting, and electronics lab
plus many other 'trade' type classes.
These are no more....

-BR


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 1/29/2015 7:42 AM, RonB wrote:
A few weeks ago I posted a questions regarding lightening the color of an antique oak table. The table is a family heirloom that goes back at least 100 to 120 years. My folks had already stripped and stained it in the 1950's so preservation of patina was not a concern.

This morning I am sipping my coffee and getting ready to apply the 4th coat of finish on a project that is coming together fairly well. I am doing it in heated garage workshop that includes a 15" surface planer, 5hp table saw, wood lathe and other power and hand tools I have accumulated over 30 or 40 years of woodworking and general tinkering.

A project like this gave me lots of reasons to think. The table is made of a combination of red and white oak, rather artfully combined. I wonder if material use was really artistic or just the use of available material in a small, shop. The red oak top is made of 4" wide boards that were edge joined with a modified tongue and groove edge. The under-frame and slide mechanism, that allows it to be expanded, needed a little work. Some of the double-dovetail slides were damaged. I was able to "duplicate" these parts on the table saw but I noticed the old ones still showed slight tool marks even after years of use.

Then the legs. The table has five 4" diameter lathe turned legs. The top and bottom 6"-8" are artfully turned spindles with decorative rings, etc. Everything else is a graceful rope turn design that kept us busy for days gently removing the old finish with toothbrushes. The other morning I laid them out side-by-side before starting the staining process. That is when it occurred to me they are not duplicates. They are damned near duplicates--but there are small variations in the width of the turned rings, the coves, the depth of the groove in the rope area etc. I noticed variations because I was looking for them but it is clear that the lathe was loaded five times for five legs. Then I looked over at the 14" JET lathe near the wall of my shop and shook my head wondering if these pieces of craftsmanship were turned on a water or foot operated machine.

My wife and I have built a few pretty nice projects over our years including some hardwood rocking horses that have sold or raffled well . We have also finished out our entire home.

We are rank amateurs!

RonB


Yessir.
I can't imagine producing some of the wooden treasures that true
craftsmen turned out using just hand tools.
I have built some projects of which I am somewhat proud but I had the
advantage of purpose made tools that allowed me to do it.

I am a woodworker but they were artists.

On Thursday, January 29, 2015 at 4:43:02 AM UTC-10, RonB wrote:

We are rank amateurs!

Amateur does not mean unskilled Don't sell yourself short!

On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 06:42:57 -0800 (PST)
RonB wrote:

We are rank amateurs!

Not rank amateurs from what you describe just born into a different
era. There are still a lot of craftsmen around the world that do things
manually. There's a guy that turns chess pieces and uses his feet