OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/

Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

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For me, it's not the gluing, but making sure all clamps are ready and/or in place. Usually, a complete dry fitting run-through eliminates those worries.

Sonny

On 11/2/2014 1:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/


Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


Depending on the size and number of pieces.
Bigger more complex always get me nervous.

At some point in a bigger layup, I always get nervous about having to
get the assembly clamped now, before I can't pull it together. So I
always do an interim clamp up. Even for a few minutes .... if possible.
I always say I won't but I always get nervous. Glue sets up pretty fast.

For projects that I can't clamp interim I sweat it. No for me it has
never gotten real easy. But I just go ahead and do it. I reason, I have
the skills to correct whatever F up I do. I have done some real
doosies. I marked a butcher block top with grain direction for planing
so that they all had the grain in the same orientation, but in the heat
of battle I flipped a few and didn't notice.

Or one time I didn't notice that the raised panel door was not squared ,
or the time the cabinet was fine during dry run and not during glue up.

**** happens, how you correct the problems is more the game at that point.

I am better these days, but every once in a while I still get a HOW THE
F did I DO THAT moment.

But when it comes our right and you have no problems it's a great
feeling of relief.. And over time you'll get better and better. But
you'll still sweat it.


--
Jeff

On 11/2/2014 12:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

I hardly give it a second thought anymore. As you become more
experienced you learn to move more efficiently. As you mentioned,
alignment has a lot to do with glue up. As you learn to use more
structural joints the glue up become easier as you can assemble with out
clamps. I often dry fit with out glue and you would never know that
there is nothing but the joinery holding everything together. When the
joints naturally hold thing in alignment you can often wait until the
last step to apply clamps.

And adding a bit more to using groves, rabbits, and dado's I seldom use
a square to align anything. Cut correctly most everything will self
align. I will check with a square "sometimes" but at that point it is
too late to correct.







For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/

Yeah!!!!!!!

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/

Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

I don't know what you are so worried about, another six months and you'll
be giving Leon a run for his money

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 11/2/2014 3:01 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/


Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

I don't know what you are so worried about, another six months and
you'll be giving Leon a run for his money

No kidding!

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 5:54:06 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 11/2/2014 3:01 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/


Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

I don't know what you are so worried about, another six months and
you'll be giving Leon a run for his money

No kidding!

At my pace - and with my schedule - I'll be happy to finish a project in six months. But thanks for the encouragement.

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 2:54:33 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:


And adding a bit more to using groves, rabbits, and dado's I seldom use
a square to align anything. Cut correctly most everything will self
align. I will check with a square "sometimes" but at that point it is
too late to correct.

Yeah, that's the ticket I guess. I have paid more attention to aligning the tools for square cuts lately and it has helped. But I've still got a way to go.

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 1:15:09 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
For me, it's not the gluing, but making sure all clamps are ready and/or in place. Usually, a complete dry fitting run-through eliminates those worries.

Sonny

I did that, with biscuits and clamps. I labeled all of the corners too, so I could put the pieces back the same way. And yes, it helped. In this case the issue was the four miters. I was afraid that if the first side was the slightest bit off the corner, laterally, that the glue might make it difficult to adjust by the time I got the other pieces on. It's hard to see if a mitered piece meets the square corner exactly.

In the end, it came out OK. But I'm sure I'll worry about the second one just as much.

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:03:59 -0500, Greg Guarino
wrote:

OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/

Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

I don't know about you guys but I have more of an issue with staining
and finishing after the glue-up. What I have started to do on my most
recent projects is to stain and finish the pieces first and then glue
them up after that. Obviously I do the gluing for all panels before
staining and finishing.

I use painters tape to insure there is no stain or finish on the
surfaces that will be glued and when doing the glue-up I use painters
tape to insure if there is squeeze out it ends up on the tape not on
the finished surface. This way all surfaces have not too much, not too
little, but just the right amount of stain and finish even in tight
corners. Even Goldilocks would be happy.

On 11/2/2014 10:20 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014
13:03:59 -0500, Greg Guarino


I don't know about you guys but I have more of an issue with staining
and finishing after the glue-up.

Don't worry. I've got those too, especially on this project, which I
plan to stain.

What I have started to do on my most
recent projects is to stain and finish the pieces first and then glue
them up after that. Obviously I do the gluing for all panels before
staining and finishing.

I do that too, usually. It helps temper my fear of squeeze-out, for one
thing. I think it makes the corners look neater too: no build-up of
finish. And it's just easier; I can apply finish to flat pieces rather
than contorting myself to get to the inside surfaces.

Having said that, you do need to find ways to prop up your pieces so
they won't touch anything while you're finishing them. If the piece was
assembled, it would stand up on its own. I've taken to driving finish
nails into the ends of shelves, like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...4446/lightbox/

That lets me suspend the pieces slightly off the work surface. I can
apply the finish to one side and then flip them over to do the other.
Although I have of late switched to finishes that don't pick up as much
dust, my habit is to do the more visible side first, so it dries facing
down. Quick tip: The next time I do this, I'll use screws instead. It's
a pain to remove the nails.

Here's a picture of how I managed - using nails, painter's points and a
couple of different "levels" - to array all of the parts for (one-half
of) a large set of bookcases:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1493/lightbox/

Every method seems to have its costs though. In this case I had to mask
off the area of the shelves that would fit into the dadoes. It makes
really neat corners though, so I think it was worth it.

I use painters tape to insure there is no stain or finish on the
surfaces that will be glued and when doing the glue-up I use painters
tape to insure if there is squeeze out it ends up on the tape not on
the finished surface.

I don't worry about squeeze-out on finished surfaces. That's half the
reason I prefinish the pieces; the glue doesn't adhere well to the
finish, making it easy to remove. And, of course, it can't prevent stain
from coloring the wood if the gluing is done afterward.

This way all surfaces have not too much, not too
little, but just the right amount of stain and finish even in tight
corners. Even Goldilocks would be happy.

On my current slow-motion project, I have pre-assembled (and glued) the
"ladders" that make up the sides:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

That violates my usual practice, but I just couldn't bear the idea of
staining and applying several coats of finish to 40 loose "rung" pieces.
We'll see if that turns out to have been a mistake.







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On 11/3/2014 5:51 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/2/2014 10:20 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote: On Sun, 02 Nov 2014
13:03:59 -0500, Greg Guarino


I don't know about you guys but I have more of an issue with staining
and finishing after the glue-up.

Don't worry. I've got those too, especially on this project, which I
plan to stain.

What I have started to do on my most
recent projects is to stain and finish the pieces first and then glue
them up after that. Obviously I do the gluing for all panels before
staining and finishing.

I do that too, usually. It helps temper my fear of squeeze-out, for one
thing. I think it makes the corners look neater too: no build-up of
finish. And it's just easier; I can apply finish to flat pieces rather
than contorting myself to get to the inside surfaces.

One of the reasons that I use gel stains and mostly gel varnishes is
that dust is not really an issue. I varnish one side of the panel, flip
it over on the fresh varnished surface and apply to the opposite side.
Then I prop the pieces up against something so that air circulation
helps to cure the varnish faster. I don't worry much about anything
touching anything. Sounds too good to be true, right? ;~)

On 11/2/2014 8:28 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 2:54:33 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:


And adding a bit more to using groves, rabbits, and dado's I seldom use
a square to align anything. Cut correctly most everything will self
align. I will check with a square "sometimes" but at that point it is
too late to correct.

Yeah, that's the ticket I guess. I have paid more attention to aligning the tools for square cuts lately and it has helped. But I've still got a way to go.



You are on the right track Greg.

On 11/2/2014 8:00 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 5:54:06 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 11/2/2014 3:01 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/


Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

I don't know what you are so worried about, another six months and
you'll be giving Leon a run for his money

No kidding!

At my pace - and with my schedule - I'll be happy to finish a project in six months. But thanks for the encouragement.

Don't be discourage by the time it takes, we have all been there. I
have nothing but time for woodworking.

On 11/3/2014 2:45 PM, Leon wrote:
One of the reasons that I use gel stains and mostly gel varnishes is
that dust is not really an issue. I varnish one side of the panel, flip
it over on the fresh varnished surface and apply to the opposite side.
Then I prop the pieces up against something so that air circulation
helps to cure the varnish faster. I don't worry much about anything
touching anything. Sounds too good to be true, right? ;~)

My very thought. You apply the gel varnish to one side, presumably wipe
off the excess and then "buff" as a third step (if I remember correctly)
then turn it over on the (clean, I assume) bench and do the other side?
I ask this because I believe I will use gel varnish on this project. I
made some test pieces and was pleased with the finish. But it's hard to
imagine letting any finish rest on a surface before it's dry. Just how
smooth is your bench anyway?

On 11/3/2014 4:20 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/3/2014 2:45 PM, Leon wrote:
One of the reasons that I use gel stains and mostly gel varnishes is
that dust is not really an issue. I varnish one side of the panel, flip
it over on the fresh varnished surface and apply to the opposite side.
Then I prop the pieces up against something so that air circulation
helps to cure the varnish faster. I don't worry much about anything
touching anything. Sounds too good to be true, right? ;~)

My very thought. You apply the gel varnish to one side, presumably wipe
off the excess and then "buff" as a third step (if I remember correctly)
then turn it over on the (clean, I assume) bench and do the other side?
I ask this because I believe I will use gel varnish on this project. I
made some test pieces and was pleased with the finish. But it's hard to
imagine letting any finish rest on a surface before it's dry. Just how
smooth is your bench anyway?


READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!! With Old Masters Gel Varnish you apply, wipe
off excess while it is still easy to wipe off, and then immediately
buff. This will depend on temp and humidity but typically leaving it on
longer does not increase penetration. Wiping off immediately is easier
than if it starts to set up at all and that can happen in less than a
minute minute. Experiment on a scrap.
With a stain let it dry over night before applying another coat if you
want darker or before applying varnish.




IIRC the General Finishes stains is a similar approach but I don't
recall having to do the third step, buff.

I try to use a dustless surface but I don't fret about that too much,
just hit it with a brush or blow it off with compressed air. Nothing is
going to stick that you wont see. Since these products go on and get
rubbed out relatively thin there is not much chance for anything to get
stuck to the surface. Take care,,,, but typically you can't screw this
up. Having said that I don't leave the stained/varnished surface
laying on a surface longer than the time it takes to do the other side.
After I am done with the piece I stand it on edge to provide air
circulation to both sides.


This bed post was stained all the way around, one side after the next.
I simply flipped to expose a new side and applied stained and wiped off.
I repeated this for each side immediately.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/14936428522/

My work bench is what ever surface is available. Typically a large
piece of plywood that I usually assemble on. It is NOT really smooth
any more but does not scratch the wood.

You have probably seen this but here it is again.
The video starts with a surface that I had immediately finished applying
gel varnish to. You see me flip it and begin the opposite side. You
will also notice that I don't worry too much about touching the surface,
just buff it again anywhere you touch it.

You also see my typical work surface for applying stain or varnish.

KEEP IN MIND, these gel products, "as Nailshooter has described" produce
an "adult" finish. they are not thick and don't protect as well as some
other products that are sprayed or brunched on more heavily. BUT... I
have been using gel varnishes and stains almost exclusively since about
1990. I have not yet had issue with the finish not being good enough.

On 11/3/2014 5:19 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/3/2014 4:20 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/3/2014 2:45 PM, Leon wrote:
One of the reasons that I use gel stains and mostly gel varnishes is
that dust is not really an issue. I varnish one side of the panel, flip
it over on the fresh varnished surface and apply to the opposite side.
Then I prop the pieces up against something so that air circulation
helps to cure the varnish faster. I don't worry much about anything
touching anything. Sounds too good to be true, right? ;~)

My very thought. You apply the gel varnish to one side, presumably wipe
off the excess and then "buff" as a third step (if I remember correctly)
then turn it over on the (clean, I assume) bench and do the other side?
I ask this because I believe I will use gel varnish on this project. I
made some test pieces and was pleased with the finish. But it's hard to
imagine letting any finish rest on a surface before it's dry. Just how
smooth is your bench anyway?


READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!! With Old Masters Gel Varnish you apply, wipe
off excess while it is still easy to wipe off, and then immediately
buff. This will depend on temp and humidity but typically leaving it on
longer does not increase penetration. Wiping off immediately is easier
than if it starts to set up at all and that can happen in less than a
minute minute. Experiment on a scrap.
With a stain let it dry over night before applying another coat if you
want darker or before applying varnish.




IIRC the General Finishes stains is a similar approach but I don't
recall having to do the third step, buff.

I try to use a dustless surface but I don't fret about that too much,
just hit it with a brush or blow it off with compressed air. Nothing is
going to stick that you wont see. Since these products go on and get
rubbed out relatively thin there is not much chance for anything to get
stuck to the surface. Take care,,,, but typically you can't screw this
up. Having said that I don't leave the stained/varnished surface
laying on a surface longer than the time it takes to do the other side.
After I am done with the piece I stand it on edge to provide air
circulation to both sides.


This bed post was stained all the way around, one side after the next.
I simply flipped to expose a new side and applied stained and wiped off.
I repeated this for each side immediately.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/14936428522/

My work bench is what ever surface is available. Typically a large
piece of plywood that I usually assemble on. It is NOT really smooth
any more but does not scratch the wood.

You have probably seen this but here it is again.
The video starts with a surface that I had immediately finished applying
gel varnish to. You see me flip it and begin the opposite side. You
will also notice that I don't worry too much about touching the surface,
just buff it again anywhere you touch it.

You also see my typical work surface for applying stain or varnish.

KEEP IN MIND, these gel products, "as Nailshooter has described" produce
an "adult" finish. they are not thick and don't protect as well as some
other products that are sprayed or brunched on more heavily. BUT... I
have been using gel varnishes and stains almost exclusively since about
1990. I have not yet had issue with the finish not being good enough.

Let me add this. It is not unusual for the surface to not be as smooth
as a baby's butt at any stage. I take care of this after the last coat
of varnish. I wrap a piece of printer paper around a small block of
wood and relatively lightly rub down the entire surface. This polishes
out the small nibs that may have appeared. This tends to be more of an
issue when working with plywoods versus solid hardwoods. I rarely have
to do this with solid wood.

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 21:20:34 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Nov 2014 13:03:59 -0500, Greg Guarino
wrote:

OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/

Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

I don't know about you guys but I have more of an issue with staining
and finishing after the glue-up. What I have started to do on my most
recent projects is to stain and finish the pieces first and then glue
them up after that. Obviously I do the gluing for all panels before
staining and finishing.

I use painters tape to insure there is no stain or finish on the
surfaces that will be glued and when doing the glue-up I use painters
tape to insure if there is squeeze out it ends up on the tape not on
the finished surface. This way all surfaces have not too much, not too
little, but just the right amount of stain and finish even in tight
corners. Even Goldilocks would be happy.

I've been finishing (up to at least the first top coat) after rough
cutting the wood, before finishing the edges or any dados.

On 11/2/2014 2:54 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/2/2014 12:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

I hardly give it a second thought anymore. As you become more experienced
you learn to move more efficiently. As you mentioned, alignment has a lot
to do with glue up. As you learn to use more structural joints the glue up
become easier as you can assemble with out clamps. I often dry fit with
out glue and you would never know that there is nothing but the joinery
holding everything together. When the joints naturally hold thing in
alignment you can often wait until the last step to apply clamps.

And adding a bit more to using groves, rabbits, and dado's I seldom use a
square to align anything. Cut correctly most everything will self align.
I will check with a square "sometimes" but at that point it is too late to
correct.







For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/


Yeah!!!!!!!


I really don't worry about it much any more. One of my early projects,
before I really knew any better, was a 5-shelf bookcase which is assembled
using nothing but 30 highly-visible wedged through tenons. I managed to
survive that with no real problems and I've been pretty calm since then.

On Monday, November 3, 2014 5:51:49 AM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:

I do that too, usually. It helps temper my fear of squeeze-out, for one
thing. I think it makes the corners look neater too: no build-up of
finish. And it's just easier; I can apply finish to flat pieces rather
than contorting myself to get to the inside surfaces.

Having said that, you do need to find ways to prop up your pieces so
they won't touch anything while you're finishing them. If the piece was
assembled, it would stand up on its own. I've taken to driving finish
nails into the ends of shelves, like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...4446/lightbox/

Good stuff, Greg. One thing you learn as a finisher for money is that when someone sees a run.sag, or inconsistent coloring they gladly remark, "well Hell, I could have done that". The easiest way to get a completely consistent finish on all parts with no problems in hard to reach places or on complicated shapes is to prefinish.

When I finish drawers, if I can't find prefinished box parts, I always assemble the boxes and spray them out. Try this trick for the faces: find out and locate the coverage of the perimeter edge of the box on the back of the drawer face. Put a small eye hook that has been opened up a bit to allow a wire or heavy string (like paracord) to go inside. After installing the hook, finish enough of the back side of the drawer around the perimeter making sure that you have finish applied so that the drawer box will cover all of the unfinished perimeter. Flip this drawer face over, then put the drawer face's unfinished area on a couple of blocks and you can easily finish the faces. The hook? String a line in the shop or garage and simply hang up the faces as you finish them. You can finish all your drawer faces and hang them up like socks while taking just a little more time and very little shop space. Hanging them up works when spraying or brushing. The advantage of having your work right in front of you to finish is obvious.

I saw this in a production cabinet shop years ago. When spray finishing a kitchen full of cabinet doors, you can wind up with a bunch of them. I drill a hole in the top of the top doors, and the bottom of the bottom doors and and simply hang them up to spray. If it is a long oil, I take them inside a garage and hang them on a temporary "clothes line" to dry and apply another coat at needed. Using heavy hooks, I don't have to touch the doors and can spray both sides at once. Imagine spraying out a kitchen full of cabinet doors on both ides in 30- 45 minutes. When I have a long line to work from and a good helper, it takes me longer to mix the finish and clean the gun than it does to spray out 30 doors.

And for the guys that are wanting to get some speed up when finishing or refinishing big door like a solid entryway door, I usually do this way. I dig out some old lag screws or 20d nails, and drill two holes in the top and bottom, about 3 inches from the edges. I drive in the screws or nails and leave about 4 inches sticking out. I can use the nails to suspend the door over a couple of saw horses with the nails holding it up, no edges touching. Finish one side, no edges. Flip the door over, then finish the face, the edges and the top and bottom. This is pretty handy method when you have to take some time so finish out multi panel doors that need a lot of attention if you have to brush. It is an breeze to spray a big door this way when the door is down flat and you can put a light on it. Makes a difficult pattern (say a 9, 12, or 15 panel/lite door a breeze.

Keep on going, Greg. Looks like you're starting to feel your stride!

Robert

On 11/6/2014 1:22 AM, wrote:
On Monday, November 3, 2014 5:51:49 AM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:

I do that too, usually. It helps temper my fear of squeeze-out, for
one thing. I think it makes the corners look neater too: no
build-up of finish. And it's just easier; I can apply finish to
flat pieces rather than contorting myself to get to the inside
surfaces.

Having said that, you do need to find ways to prop up your pieces
so they won't touch anything while you're finishing them. If the
piece was assembled, it would stand up on its own. I've taken to
driving finish nails into the ends of shelves, like this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...4446/lightbox/


Good stuff, Greg. One thing you learn as a finisher for money is
that when someone sees a run.sag, or inconsistent coloring they
gladly remark, "well Hell, I could have done that".

In may case, "Hell, I *have* done that".

But not so much lately. I think I discovered finishing the parts
pre-assembly here on the wrec, looking at someone's project photos. Cool
secret, that. I think I may even have *sanded* after assembly on my very
earliest projects, years ago.

Funny thing: Now I look at furniture I like and wonder "*Could* I build
that?". An further, I sometimes see attractive looking furniture
*designs*, but made poorly and think, "I could build something like
that, but better".

Yes, the slippery slope has been reached.


The easiest way
to get a completely consistent finish on all parts with no problems
in hard to reach places or on complicated shapes is to prefinish.

When I finish drawers, if I can't find prefinished box parts, I
always assemble the boxes and spray them out. Try this trick for the
faces: find out and locate the coverage of the perimeter edge of the
box on the back of the drawer face. Put a small eye hook that has
been opened up a bit to allow a wire or heavy string (like paracord)
to go inside. After installing the hook, finish enough of the back
side of the drawer around the perimeter making sure that you have
finish applied so that the drawer box will cover all of the
unfinished perimeter. Flip this drawer face over, then put the
drawer face's unfinished area on a couple of blocks and you can
easily finish the faces. The hook? String a line in the shop or
garage and simply hang up the faces as you finish them. You can
finish all your drawer faces and hang them up like socks while taking
just a little more time and very little shop space. Hanging them up
works when spraying or brushing. The advantage of having your work
right in front of you to finish is obvious.

I have in fact already attached eyescrews to some of the assemblies (the
"ladders"), and hooks to the bottom of a ceiling-mounted wood storage rack.

I saw this in a production cabinet shop years ago. When spray
finishing a kitchen full of cabinet doors, you can wind up with a
bunch of them. I drill a hole in the top of the top doors, and the
bottom of the bottom doors and and simply hang them up to spray.

The one time I made panel doors - and I don't (yet) do any spraying - I
mounted hooks on the backs of the doors where the euro hinge holes would
eventually be drilled. I'd apply finish to the backs first, avoiding the
non-hinged edge. Then I flipped the doors over and the hooks kept the
backs from touching the bench, except at that edge. I applied finish to
the fronts, hung the doors up, and hit the non-hinged edges last.

Why, I even have a photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...0027/lightbox/

If
it is a long oil, I take them inside a garage and hang them on a
temporary "clothes line" to dry and apply another coat at needed.
Using heavy hooks, I don't have to touch the doors and can spray both
sides at once. Imagine spraying out a kitchen full of cabinet doors
on both ides in 30- 45 minutes. When I have a long line to work from
and a good helper, it takes me longer to mix the finish and clean the
gun than it does to spray out 30 doors.

As I mentioned, no spraying for me, yet anyway.


Keep on going, Greg. Looks like you're starting to feel your
stride!

It's a slow stride, but yes, I'm making progress. Thanks.

On Sunday, November 2, 2014 12:04:02 PM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:
OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/

Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

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Looks great, Greg!

On 11/6/2014 11:59 PM, Michael wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 12:04:02 PM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:
OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/

Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Looks great, Greg!

Thanks. With any luck, I can soon say goodbye to the mitering anxiety
and fret about finishing instead.

---
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Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/6/2014 11:59 PM, Michael wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 12:04:02 PM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:
OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start
applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much?
Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/


Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Looks great, Greg!

Thanks. With any luck, I can soon say goodbye to the mitering anxiety
and fret about finishing instead.


I think you are just suffering from "I've almost got this completed, and
I don't want to screw it up! syndrome".
I'm afraid the anxiety just goes along with giving a darn. You're
doing nice work! If you pay attention you're not likely to screw
anything up! ; )

Bill



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On 11/7/2014 6:39 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/6/2014 11:59 PM, Michael wrote:
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 12:04:02 PM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:
OK. I wasn't in a panic this time, so I guess I've made progress over
the last few projects, but I still get agitated anytime I start applying
glue. Is everything lined up? Square? Flat? Enough glue? Too much? Can I
get the last piece in place before the glue starts to make it hard to
reposition the first one? Too soon to remove the squeeze-out? Too late?

Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

For better or worse, one of my "tops" is finally assembled:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...7644207411490/


Use the "right-arrow" to scroll.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Looks great, Greg!

Thanks. With any luck, I can soon say goodbye to the mitering anxiety
and fret about finishing instead.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com



Greg there will always be worry! ;~)

As you get better and build confidence, you,,,

1. Build bigger.
1.a. You worry about if it will fit.

2. Much bigger.
2.a. You worry about getting it down the hall, around the corner, and
hair bin back into a bedroom.

3. Much much bigger.
3.a. You worry about the possibility of it not fitting in the bed of
your truck and how many trips will it take.

3.b. You worry about finding some one to help you move the piece, and
you hope he is stronger than you. ;~)

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 9:21:31 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

Greg there will always be worry! ;~)

As you get better and build confidence, you,,,

1. Build bigger.
1.a. You worry about if it will fit.

2. Much bigger.
2.a. You worry about getting it down the hall, around the corner, and
hair bin back into a bedroom.

3. Much much bigger.
3.a. You worry about the possibility of it not fitting in the bed of
your truck and how many trips will it take.

3.b. You worry about finding some one to help you move the piece, and
you hope he is stronger than you. ;~)

4. But those worries go away, if, after all is said and done, you still have
beer in the frig, at the end of the dayz.
4.a. Beers buildss confidense.
4.b. 16oz beerss biuilds biggier confidensces, than 12onz beres, semilularly as ugh casa beerz bluilds bigher conffidenece, than a 12 pack.

ynnoS

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message


As you get better and build confidence, you,,,

1. Build bigger.
1.a. You worry about if it will fit.

2. Much bigger.
2.a. You worry about getting it down the hall, around the corner, and
hair bin back into a bedroom.

I had that problem once. Built two Eastern red cedar armoires, one for
her walk in closet, one for mine. Not huge armoires, maybe 50" tall by
24" deep by 36" wide.

I planned carefully, made sure they would fit through the various doors.
Mine did, hers didn't. It would have if it hadn't needed to turn around a
partition opposite her closet. What to do, what to do...

What I did was saw it in half so I had a 12" front and a 12" back. Put
them in the closet. glued them back together. You'd never know they had
been cut in two.

When we sell this place someday I hope the new owner likes them, hers
isn't coming out. Unless he saws it again

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 11/2/2014 12:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

The very act of the first tipping of the glue bottle, to release its
contents on all that carefully prepped joinery, requires the same
emotional preparation as going into battle.

Means all is as it should be...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/13/2014 7:40 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/2/2014 12:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

The very act of the first tipping of the glue bottle, to release its
contents on all that carefully prepped joinery, requires the same
emotional preparation as going into battle.

Means all is as it should be...


Oh.

You know what we could use? A sound-activated adhesive. Apply it in as
leisurely a fashion as you like, get everything lined up perfectly, then
(after taking the dog around back) hit it with a 25kHz tone: "Presto":
Cured joints.

I can dream, can't I?

On 11/13/2014 2:15 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/13/2014 7:40 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/2/2014 12:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

The very act of the first tipping of the glue bottle, to release its
contents on all that carefully prepped joinery, requires the same
emotional preparation as going into battle.

Means all is as it should be...


Oh.

You know what we could use? A sound-activated adhesive. Apply it in as
leisurely a fashion as you like, get everything lined up perfectly, then
(after taking the dog around back) hit it with a 25kHz tone: "Presto":
Cured joints.

I can dream, can't I?


Actually most Franklin/TiteBond glue will cure in the presence of
ultrasonic frequencies. You just need the devise to emit the sound.
But this speeds cure time not open time. ;~(




Now I cannot point you to where I have read this but I have read this on
a few occasions.

On 11/13/2014 3:15 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/13/2014 7:40 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/2/2014 12:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

The very act of the first tipping of the glue bottle, to release its
contents on all that carefully prepped joinery, requires the same
emotional preparation as going into battle.

Means all is as it should be...


Oh.

You know what we could use? A sound-activated adhesive. Apply it in as
leisurely a fashion as you like, get everything lined up perfectly, then
(after taking the dog around back) hit it with a 25kHz tone: "Presto":
Cured joints.

I can dream, can't I?

That exists.
There already glue that is frequency activated.
Many of the large shops use it.

--
Jeff

On 11/13/2014 3:59 PM, Leon wrote:
On 11/13/2014 2:15 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/13/2014 7:40 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/2/2014 12:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

The very act of the first tipping of the glue bottle, to release its
contents on all that carefully prepped joinery, requires the same
emotional preparation as going into battle.

Means all is as it should be...


Oh.

You know what we could use? A sound-activated adhesive. Apply it in as
leisurely a fashion as you like, get everything lined up perfectly, then
(after taking the dog around back) hit it with a 25kHz tone: "Presto":
Cured joints.

I can dream, can't I?


Actually most Franklin/TiteBond glue will cure in the presence of
ultrasonic frequencies. You just need the devise to emit the sound.
But this speeds cure time not open time. ;~(




Now I cannot point you to where I have read this but I have read this on
a few occasions.
Making a ultra-sonic is easy. Keeping it from frying the user is
another story.

Martin

On 11/13/2014 8:40 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 11/13/2014 3:15 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 11/13/2014 7:40 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/2/2014 12:03 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Seriously; Can I look forward to ever approaching a glue-up without
trepidation? Is it just another "day at the office" for some of you old
hands? Or does everyone get that "point of no return" feeling?

The very act of the first tipping of the glue bottle, to release its
contents on all that carefully prepped joinery, requires the same
emotional preparation as going into battle.

Means all is as it should be...


Oh.

You know what we could use? A sound-activated adhesive. Apply it in as
leisurely a fashion as you like, get everything lined up perfectly, then
(after taking the dog around back) hit it with a 25kHz tone: "Presto":
Cured joints.

I can dream, can't I?

That exists.
There already glue that is frequency activated.
Many of the large shops use it.

Likely a filler is vibrating and heats up the glue. Or a large glue
molecule / chain of them...