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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I
decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick.. it looked like a tank. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. -- Jeff |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
woodchucker wrote:
Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick.. it looked like a tank. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. Are your thoughts about the chisel that he should not have tried to "pry" with it? Should he have made a "stop cut", and then cut to that--or something else? I think a genuine beginner would not be able to follow everything that what was going on in the video well enough to copy all of the operations (and wouldn't have all of the tools anyway), so I can't claim to be upset with it. He didn't claim to be an expert, so it seems hard to be too picky (for me). If we must wait for someone to become expert in every aspect before they can make any videos, then we might not get any.. I'm sure he will value your constructive criticism. I know I would! Cheers, Bill |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
Bill wrote:
woodchucker wrote: Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick.. it looked like a tank. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. Are your thoughts about the chisel that he should not have tried to "pry" with it? Should he have made a "stop cut", and then cut to that--or something else? I think a genuine beginner would not be able to follow everything that what was going on in the video well enough to copy all of the operations (and wouldn't have all of the tools anyway), so I can't claim to be upset with it. He didn't claim to be an expert, so it seems hard to be too picky (for me). If we must wait for someone to become expert in every aspect before they can make any videos, then we might not get any.. I'm sure he will value your constructive criticism. I know I would! Cheers, Bill I watched the same video again and one more. To me, it seems like "safety" is the thing that mostly needs to be taught. A beginner could walk away with the idea that it's cool to be "cavalier". When I think back to my h.s. shop classes, "safety" is the one of the things that I'm most grateful for learning about. How does a beginner get those lessons? Blood? Maybe it's better if ones starts with hand tools... |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On 3/29/2014 9:30 PM, Bill wrote:
woodchucker wrote: Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick.. it looked like a tank. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. Are your thoughts about the chisel that he should not have tried to "pry" with it? If you mean the twisting back and forth yes, otherwise prying is sought of ok... we pry when mortising, but we never twist when wasting... you just push forward, or for heavier work, you tap with a mallet. For this, you just push , and use your body for light wasting. For very light you use your arms. With a sharp chisel that should have been butter. Even maple just cuts easily for that. That chisel was treated like a screwdriver. A gouge on the other hand can be used that way.... well sought of, you can rotate the gouge back and forth to cut I had no problem with his using a saw to stop the cut.. I would have just used a chisel strike. But that's a matter of preference. Should he have made a "stop cut", and then cut to that--or something else? I think a genuine beginner would not be able to follow everything that what was going on in the video well enough to copy all of the operations (and wouldn't have all of the tools anyway), so I can't claim to be upset with it. He didn't claim to be an expert, so it seems hard to be too picky (for me). If we must wait for someone to become expert in every aspect before they can make any videos, then we might not get any.. I'm sure he will value your constructive criticism. I know I would! Well for a beginner teaching bad habits or wrong technique just teaches the person the wrong way.. which then becomes gospel to the beginner because they saw someone they trusted doing it. Cheers, Bill -- Jeff |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
woodchucker wrote:
On 3/29/2014 9:30 PM, Bill wrote: woodchucker wrote: Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick.. it looked like a tank. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. Are your thoughts about the chisel that he should not have tried to "pry" with it? If you mean the twisting back and forth yes, otherwise prying is sought of ok... we pry when mortising, but we never twist when wasting... you just push forward, or for heavier work, you tap with a mallet. For this, you just push , and use your body for light wasting. For very light you use your arms. With a sharp chisel that should have been butter. Even maple just cuts easily for that. That chisel was treated like a screwdriver. A gouge on the other hand can be used that way.... well sought of, you can rotate the gouge back and forth to cut I had no problem with his using a saw to stop the cut.. I would have just used a chisel strike. But that's a matter of preference. Thank you for the clarification! Bill |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
woodchucker wrote:
Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick.. it looked like a tank. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. If that bothers you, you would have recoiled in horror watching Sam Maloof work. -- www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile) |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On 3/30/2014 9:36 AM, Swingman wrote:
woodchucker wrote: Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick.. it looked like a tank. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. If that bothers you, you would have recoiled in horror watching Sam Maloof work. Especially when he cut of one of his finger tips. |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... - I much prefer the feel of my block plane in my hand and it far out performs 'my' bench plane in cut quality. - The block plane did the job that I needed done to high standards. The job at hand was getting the waste left by the jointer flush with the jointed side. This can be felt with a finger swipe to the thousands of an inch. Some regions along the length need to be hit harder than others because of the variation in the rough lumber. Some regions are not touched w/ the block plane. A block plane is perfect for this. He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the right of the rabbet. I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front of the piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush trim saw. I needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent blow out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and lift them into the saw cut for removal. Very effective. This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out the wood to the front. All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom. It's difficult to tell at 600X speed but this process was done with great precision and caution and was very successful. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick.. it looked like a tank. The customer (wife) wanted 1/2" and this is what was delivered. I appreciate your opinion on this but I bet if you saw it in person you'd like it more. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I took no offense, seriously. The fan mail I receive, on a weekly basis, from people all around the world describing to me how I've taught them woodworking and how I've 'raised their game' far out weight your comments. but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. I've heard from people in the past that say, while I'm a good woodworker, I do not always follow 'convention' (here's one : http://froggybuilder.com/index.php/resources). It's my opinion that the ones that feel this way are usually taught 'convention' from woodworking classes in a more traditional manner. I'd agree that I don't always follow convention, and that my philosophy on woodworking isn't to make sure I am using the traditional hand plane for the job, that follows convention, but to make sure that I am using the tool that will get the job done to the standards that I hold. -- Jeff |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:41:48 AM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:
On 3/30/2014 11:25 AM, wrote: On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote: Brian put up a new video, I don't usually watch his videos, but I decided to see what he is up to. I felt uncomfortable watching him with a chisel, and using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane... - I much prefer the feel of my block plane in my hand and it far out performs 'my' bench plane in cut quality. - The block plane did the job that I needed done to high standards. The job at hand was getting the waste left by the jointer flush with the jointed side. This can be felt with a finger swipe to the thousands of an inch.. Some regions along the length need to be hit harder than others because of the variation in the rough lumber. Some regions are not touched w/ the block plane. A block plane is perfect for this. No a block plane is not perfect.. a bench plane is, it levels to a larger area. A block plane works small areas, or chamfers. Like I said this may have been nitpicking.. And this was not that... critical. Why does your block plane exceed your bench plane, because it is a veritas block plane that cost more? or because the blade on your bench plane is not sharp. Or is it technique? He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the right of the rabbet. I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front of the piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush trim saw. I needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent blow out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and lift them into the saw cut for removal. Very effective. This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out the wood to the front. All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom. It's difficult to tell at 600X speed but this process was done with great precision and caution and was very successful. Nice twist Brian, but I had no problem with the saw. Your chisel technique is horrendous. You can twist that to your sawing. I specifically referenced your chiseling. It was awful. Use the cutting edge.. Don't twist it like a screw driver.. It was ugly, and there was not a lot of precision the way you handled it. I also thought the box should have had separators that were less thick... it looked like a tank. The customer (wife) wanted 1/2" and this is what was delivered. I appreciate your opinion on this but I bet if you saw it in person you'd like it more. I know I am nit picking, but if you are going to put out a video of how to, you should be good at it. There seem to be a lot of people producing videos that are not very good. They have some good ideas (sometimes).. but woodworking was something that in the past you learned as an apprentice. And while that is not the case any longer, we all need to hone our skills before showing everyone else how NOT to do it. I realize Brian may take offense to this.. Sorry Brian, While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I took no offense, seriously. The fan mail I receive, on a weekly basis, from people all around the world describing to me how I've taught them woodworking and how I've 'raised their game' far out weight your comments. but I felt embarrassed for you watching your cleanup with the chisel. I've heard from people in the past that say, while I'm a good woodworker, I do not always follow 'convention' (here's one : http://froggybuilder.com/index.php/resources). It's my opinion that the ones that feel this way are usually taught 'convention' from woodworking classes in a more traditional manner. I'd agree that I don't always follow convention, and that my philosophy on woodworking isn't to make sure I am using the traditional hand plane for the job, that follows convention, but to make sure that I am using the tool that will get the job done to the standards that I hold. -- Jeff -- Jeff Maybe I wasn't clear. Let me try again: I cut the fibers as I could to help prevent blow out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' (TWISTING MOTION) the wood fibers and lift them into the saw cut for removal. Very effective. Again, this was the bottom of the piece where plywood has to sit. My only concern was preventing blowout. This was done with great precision and was very effective. Not sure why this is such a sticking point for you. My impression of you, based on what little I've read by you and your choice of words, that your goal here is more about attacking me than providing honest criticism. Because of this, I feel it is pointless to continue. You may continue, as I'm sure you will, to spew your garbage, but I will save you the trouble of looking for a response from me. Because you responded so quickly to my last, I know you are just salivating to respond to this one. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
Swingman wrote in news:970621852417882913.176691kac-
: [...] you would have recoiled in horror watching Sam Maloof work. I did. My first thought, watching him holding a router in one hand and the workpiece in the other was "What an idiot. Doesn't he know what clamps are for?". Then I saw his left hand ... and realized, no, he doesn't. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
Hi Brian,
using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane. He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I took no offense, seriously. I've been watching your videos for a long time and enjoyed the desk organizer video too. I don't know why other posters have such an issue with your techniques. There's more than one way to get a job done, and everyone has their own way of doing things. I didn't see anything that looked dangerous or foolish to me. Many of us don't own an assortment of planes. I only own a small block plane and rarely ever use it. I would probably have done something similar to what you did, or would have figured out some way to accomplish the task with a router (maybe a flush trim bit). Actually, I don't even own a jointer, so I would probably just use my planer (with a sled if needed). All that matters is you ended up with a flat surface. I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me. In any case, keep doing what you're doing. I find your videos enjoyable and, like most woodworking videos, I usually learn something new. Seeing how different people handle a task is more valuable to me than watching the established proper method. Keep up the good work! Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
#13
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On 3/30/2014 1:36 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Hi Brian, using a block plane, when he should have been using a bench plane. He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. While I was a little shocked to read someone trying to rip me apart, I took no offense, seriously. I've been watching your videos for a long time and enjoyed the desk organizer video too. I don't know why other posters have such an issue with your techniques. There's more than one way to get a job done, and everyone has their own way of doing things. I didn't see anything that looked dangerous or foolish to me. Many of us don't own an assortment of planes. I only own a small block plane and rarely ever use it. I would probably have done something similar to what you did, or would have figured out some way to accomplish the task with a router (maybe a flush trim bit). Actually, I don't even own a jointer, so I would probably just use my planer (with a sled if needed). All that matters is you ended up with a flat surface. I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. a dull tool is the most dangerous tool. You have to put so much more pressure and effort into cutting. And that is what a chisel does cut... not pry and tear the waste to precision. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me. In any case, keep doing what you're doing. I find your videos enjoyable and, like most woodworking videos, I usually learn something new. Seeing how different people handle a task is more valuable to me than watching the established proper method. Keep up the good work! Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com -- Jeff |
#14
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
In article , HerHusband
wrote: I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece. You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing. I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that. djb -- ³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On 3/30/2014 9:10 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , HerHusband wrote: I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece. You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing. I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that. djb Exactly, you wind up putting more pressure into it, and it can let loose and fly... A sharp tool does the job safely. -- Jeff |
#16
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On 3/30/2014 9:10 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , HerHusband wrote: I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece. You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing. I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that. djb My sharpening stones are in the house. I can sit and watch TV or listen to music while sharpening. |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/30/2014 9:10 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote: In article , HerHusband wrote: I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece. You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing. I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that. djb My sharpening stones are in the house. I can sit and watch TV or listen to music while sharpening. I agree with the advocates of sharp tools - i believe in sharp tools. Any knife I own will easily shave hair, my chisels will shave hair, and I also believe that dull tools cause more injuries and ruin more wood than sharp tools. That said, I don't believe that is what HerHusband was referring to in his statement. He simply stated that he doesn't abide by that. He didn't argue against sharp tools - simply stated what life is like in his world. Not matter what those of us who believe in sharp tools believe, there is a world of people out there who don't hold to that. He simply stated that he's one of those. He wasn't making excuses. He wasn't arguing against sharp tools. It pays for people who are going to respond to a comment to first read what the posted stated. -- -Mike- |
#18
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
"Mike Marlow" wrote: It pays for people who are going to respond to a comment to first read what the posted stated. ----------------------------------------------- It's been a slow day in the news room. Lew |
#19
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:10:07 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote: In article , HerHusband wrote: I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece. You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing. I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that. djb I still have the scars, 47 years later, from attempting to use a dull jacknife to cut some willow twigs. Not sharp enough to cut the twigs easily, but sharp enough to cut meat!!!! |
#20
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:10:07 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote: In article , HerHusband wrote: I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece. You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing. I taught my kids from the time they could walk that the most dangerous tool is a dull tool. There are good reasons for that. djb I still have the scars, 47 years later, from attempting to use a dull jacknife to cut some willow twigs. Not sharp enough to cut the twigs easily, but sharp enough to cut meat!!!! I get what you are saying Clare, and as I said - it's my contention that dull tools cause more harm than sharp tools (at least those intended to be sharp). That said - I too have decades old scars from some very sharp tools. It's not always about sharp vs. dull. Sometimes it comes down to brain dead technique... When that comes into play, a sharp tool can do its job better than a dull tool and we carry the scars of that as well. -- -Mike- |
#21
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
wrote in message
... On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote: He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the right of the rabbet. I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front of the piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush trim saw. I needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent blow out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and lift them into the saw cut for removal. Very effective. This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out the wood to the front. All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom. I would probably have done this waste removal in the same basic manner... This as it would have been real easy to blow out the short grain after the saw cut as the stop cut wasn't a full stop cut, i.e., it didn't reach the full depth of the rabbet. The saw cut was at an angle, much like you'd get sawing the pins for half blind dovetails, so you couldn't depend on a simple splitting action to remove the waste. You also couldn't risk chopping into the saw cut as it would have been more likely to blow out the short grain at the end of the board than it would compress the waste wood in the rabbet. That was a tense bit of waste removal... and it was successful. The emphasis here on successful. ;~) John |
#22
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 19:10:07 -0600, Dave Balderstone
Sorry, but that just sounds like excuses. If you aren't working with sharp tools, they are not only dangerous to you but to the workpiece. You will have no feel of the wood, tearing instead of slicing. In addition to that, there's a particular sense of satisfaction one gets from using a sharp tool that you just can't get from struggling with one that is dull. |
#23
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...
sharp). That said - I too have decades old scars from some very sharp tools. It's not always about sharp vs. dull. Sometimes it comes down to brain dead technique... When that comes into play, a sharp tool can do its I cannot think of a single scar on my body (outside of those made by people paid to make them) that wasn't the result of me doing something wrong. Fortunately for me, life has been a learning experience and the frequency and rate of injury has gone way down over the passing decades. ;~) John |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
HerHusband wrote in
: *snip* I have a small assortment of chisels, but have never taken time to sharpen them. So I have to work a little harder than someone with more experience might. It's just not something I do enough that it concerns me. *snip* Send me one, I'll sharpen it and send it back to you. Then, you can decide whether or not it's worth the effort to sharpen the rest. I've had trouble with 1/4" chisels on the Work Sharp, so better make it 1/2" or larger. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. |
#25
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:02:12 PM UTC-4, John Grossbohlin wrote:
wrote in message ... On Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:50:45 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote: He was twisting the chisel back and forth in a manner that showed he does not know how to clean out the waste. Not sure if you noticed or not, but I had only 1/4" of material to the right of the rabbet. I had to be extremely careful not to blow that out to the right (front of the piece). That is the reason why I cut the right side with a flush trim saw. I needed to cut as much of the fibers as I could to help prevent blow out. I then used the chisel to 'lift and tear' the wood fibers and lift them into the saw cut for removal. Very effective. This was the bottom of the piece. My ONLY concern was not blowing out the wood to the front. All that was needed was to remove waste for the plywood bottom. I would probably have done this waste removal in the same basic manner... This as it would have been real easy to blow out the short grain after the saw cut as the stop cut wasn't a full stop cut, i.e., it didn't reach the full depth of the rabbet. The saw cut was at an angle, much like you'd get sawing the pins for half blind dovetails, so you couldn't depend on a simple splitting action to remove the waste. You also couldn't risk chopping into the saw cut as it would have been more likely to blow out the short grain at the end of the board than it would compress the waste wood in the rabbet. That was a tense bit of waste removal... and it was successful. The emphasis here on successful. ;~) John It was a little hair raising. I probably should have explained the purpose of the saw cut. Sometimes I make the the mistake of assuming that the logic behind certain tasks are obvious. When producing these videos, I run the risk of too much commentary and not enough action. I 'think' I balance this well, but maybe not; it's tough to please everyone, so they say, as made evident by this thread. I am left vexed by how someone can criticize someones process when said process is not unsafe, and produces the end result required in a reasonable amount of time. |
#26
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
Mike,
I agree with the advocates of sharp tools - i believe in sharp tools. That said, I don't believe that is what HerHusband was referring to in his statement. He simply stated that he doesn't abide by that. He didn't argue against sharp tools Thanks Mike. You are correct, I am not against sharp tools. I just don't use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. I'm lucky if I even use a chisel once a year, and even then I tend to be rather hard on them (more for construction tasks than fine woodworking). I would love to do more hand tool work, but most of the projects I do are fairly basic and completed with power tools. Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
#27
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
HerHusband" wrote
Thanks Mike. You are correct, I am not against sharp tools. I just don't use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. I'm lucky if I even use a chisel once a year, and even then I tend to be rather hard on them (more for construction tasks than fine woodworking). I would love to do more hand tool work, but most of the projects I do are fairly basic and completed with power tools. You should do like I do. You owe it to yourself a to go out and get a low to mid priced new set of chisels. Like some metal ended Stanley's. Put them where they will not get used for rough construction. A small amount of discipline means you go back to the toolbox and get your old beater chisels out when you want to get rough with a chisel. Then take your old beater chisels and with a cup of water or oil to frequently dip and keep them cool, hit them up on the bench grinder of stationary sanding disk, and get them back to a good profile, and roughly sharp. Sure, they are not like they would be with a wet stone, but who cares. They are for rough work, and not perfect, but at least they can be close to sharp. Then you have the best of both worlds, even if you are not in the hand tool world all that often, you with be able to do it the best you can, and safely, as a bonus. -- Jim in NC --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... sharp). That said - I too have decades old scars from some very sharp tools. It's not always about sharp vs. dull. Sometimes it comes down to brain dead technique... When that comes into play, a sharp tool can do its I cannot think of a single scar on my body (outside of those made by people paid to make them) that wasn't the result of me doing something wrong. Fortunately for me, life has been a learning experience and the frequency and rate of injury has gone way down over the passing decades. ;~) Wish I could say that John, but I have a couple of puncture sites where very sharp knives found fles because I was cutting in a bad way, a dandy where a brand new hacksaw blade found its way to the bone in a finger, and stuff like that. I (probably) every case, it was where I was doing something wrong at the time. -- -Mike- |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
In article , HerHusband
wrote: Mike, I agree with the advocates of sharp tools - i believe in sharp tools. That said, I don't believe that is what HerHusband was referring to in his statement. He simply stated that he doesn't abide by that. He didn't argue against sharp tools Thanks Mike. You are correct, I am not against sharp tools. I just don't use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. I'm lucky if I even use a chisel once a year, and even then I tend to be rather hard on them (more for construction tasks than fine woodworking). I would love to do more hand tool work, but most of the projects I do are fairly basic and completed with power tools. I haven't read anyone say you are against sharp tools. You choose not to sharpen. That sharp tools are safer and produce better work is not a matter of belief or opinion. It is simple fact. djb -- ³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
Dave,
I just don't use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. You choose not to sharpen. It's not that I "choose" not to sharpen, I just haven't had the need or the knowledge/tools to sharpen them. The set of chisels I have now are probably 5-6 years old and I've probably only used them briefly four or five times. I used them last week to square up routed rabbet corners in a picture frame, probably the biggest task I've ever used them for. They're still about as sharp as the day I bought them. They seem to cut well when I have needed them. I have an older set of chisels that I use more for construction work. I've hit nails and everything else with them. They take a beating, but I never use them for fine detail work. I keep meaning to pick up a sharpening stone or something and learn how to sharpen my chisels. It just isn't something that has been a big priority since I rarely use them. In the past, I've just bought a new set of chisels when the old set got dull. In any case, my original post was meant to support Brian at GarageWoodworks, not delve into my personal sharpening habits. Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
On 3/31/2014 1:06 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Dave, I just don't use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. You choose not to sharpen. It's not that I "choose" not to sharpen, I just haven't had the need or the knowledge/tools to sharpen them. The set of chisels I have now are probably 5-6 years old and I've probably only used them briefly four or five times. I used them last week to square up routed rabbet corners in a picture frame, probably the biggest task I've ever used them for. They're still about as sharp as the day I bought them. They seem to cut well when I have needed them. I have an older set of chisels that I use more for construction work. I've hit nails and everything else with them. They take a beating, but I never use them for fine detail work. I keep meaning to pick up a sharpening stone or something and learn how to sharpen my chisels. It just isn't something that has been a big priority since I rarely use them. In the past, I've just bought a new set of chisels when the old set got dull. In any case, my original post was meant to support Brian at GarageWoodworks, not delve into my personal sharpening habits. Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com So I looked at your website. Nice work you have done... Not sure how you work without ever really needing a chisel. I find I use a chisel quite often. As far as Brian goes, and I appreciate that you support him, but that technique of rocking the chisel back and forth is really ugly. The fibers were ripped like crazy. For me, that would not have been the way I would have cut it. I use the tool to cut, chop.. Prying is left to mortising. Twisting.... never.. it's not what the tool was designed for, nor how it should be used. The result may have been ok, for him and others, but for me, it was UGLY. And the problem is that Brian is teaching people with these videos.. And that's my problem.... teaching them right and there are more than one right way... is fine.. teaching them that.. well, no.. -- Jeff |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
Dave Balderstone wrote:
In article , HerHusband wrote: Mike, I agree with the advocates of sharp tools - i believe in sharp tools. That said, I don't believe that is what HerHusband was referring to in his statement. He simply stated that he doesn't abide by that. He didn't argue against sharp tools Thanks Mike. You are correct, I am not against sharp tools. I just don't use chisels enough to worry about sharpening them. I'm lucky if I even use a chisel once a year, and even then I tend to be rather hard on them (more for construction tasks than fine woodworking). I would love to do more hand tool work, but most of the projects I do are fairly basic and completed with power tools. I haven't read anyone say you are against sharp tools. You choose not to sharpen. That sharp tools are safer and produce better work is not a matter of belief or opinion. It is simple fact. I remembered that lesson a few seconds after I jammed by hand into the corner of my workbench a year or two ago. I counted myself lucky! djb |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
"HerHusband" wrote: I keep meaning to pick up a sharpening stone or something and learn how to sharpen my chisels. It just isn't something that has been a big priority since I rarely use them. In the past, I've just bought a new set of chisels when the old set got dull. ---------------------------------------------------------- Get a piece of plate glass and some sandpaper and you're in business with scarysharp approach. Lew |
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Garage works, Brian on LJ
wrote in message
... It was a little hair raising. I probably should have explained the purpose of the saw cut. Sometimes I make the the mistake of assuming that the logic behind certain tasks are obvious. When producing these videos, I run the risk of too much commentary and not enough action. I 'think' I balance this well, but maybe not; it's tough to please everyone, so they say, as made evident by this thread. This is one of those things where having some feedback helps you get it better the next time.... ;~) I've learned a lot from my "student's" questions when I've lectured at Woodworkers Showcase, or taught classes, or during may days interpreting at Colonial Williamsburg. It's the old story of being so familiar with something that you assume everyone already knows it or gets it.... That said, I've had some really off the wall questions over the years... I remember a teenage kid at CW who was totally dismayed at the question his father asked and his dismay was obvious to the entire roomful of people. ;~) I am left vexed by how someone can criticize someones process when said process is not unsafe, and produces the end result required in a reasonable amount of time. I think we all have an "Ah Ha" moment... For example, I studied the hand-cut dovetailing techniques of a lot of "experts" over the years and there is a lot of variance. I can cut them like Tage Frid, or Frank Klaus, or Chris Schwarz, or Roy Underhill, or like the "mirrors and 747 land light" crowd in the magazines. They will all give good results as long as you keep a few basic rules in mind. Whatever you cut first dictates what you cut second... and make sure you cut in the waste. ;~) To make that point I taught a dovetailing seminar one time where I used a different technique for each pair of pins and tails and it still went together the first time without fussing with it. One year I did the Frank Klaus approach, live in front of an audience at Showcase, with no sliding bevel or ruler or divider... again, it went together the first time with no fuss. The "Ah Ha" happens when you see that there are often a LOT of different ways to accomplish the same thing. That was one area where Norm Abram did a good job over the years.... he used different techniques across shows to accomplish the same task. It's all good... John |
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