For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Just an FYI..

--
Jeff

On 1/29/2014 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Your roof isn't constructed right. If it was, what you describe
wouldn't happen.

On 1/29/2014 2:34 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/29/2014 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Your roof isn't constructed right. If it was, what you describe
wouldn't happen.

Yep, I have never worried about it in Canada is the 17 years I have been
in this house, never a problem. Those in the deep south do not need to
worry, it will all be melted in a couple days anyway.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 1/29/2014 2:51 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
On 1/29/2014 2:34 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/29/2014 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Your roof isn't constructed right. If it was, what you describe
wouldn't happen.

Yep, I have never worried about it in Canada is the 17 years I have been
in this house, never a problem. Those in the deep south do not need to
worry, it will all be melted in a couple days anyway.


It's the melting and freezing that's the problem.
When night comes and it refreezes it creates damns then the water runs
under the shingles when it melts again, since it can't go past the ice.,
and that's when you have problems.

Here in NJ, the roofs generally are pitched for moderate snow. Heavier
snows will cause problems.

--
Jeff

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:51:27 -0500, FrozenNorth
Yep, I have never worried about it in Canada is the 17 years I have been
in this house, never a problem. Those in the deep south do not need to
worry, it will all be melted in a couple days anyway.

What kind of roof do you have that you don't have to worry about ice
dams?

On 1/29/2014 11:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:51:27 -0500, FrozenNorth
Yep, I have never worried about it in Canada is the 17 years I have been
in this house, never a problem. Those in the deep south do not need to
worry, it will all be melted in a couple days anyway.

What kind of roof do you have that you don't have to worry about ice
dams?

Very steep, story and a half post WW2 house, you couldn't pay me enough
to climb on that thing, got it reshingled, they charge extra because of
the steep pitch.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 01:22:52 -0500, FrozenNorth
Very steep, story and a half post WW2 house, you couldn't pay me enough
to climb on that thing, got it reshingled, they charge extra because of
the steep pitch.

My parent's house was the exact opposite. It was a farmhouse built
circa 1825 and had an extremely low pitch. To prevent the snow and ice
buildup we ran heating wires zigzagging about two feet up all along
the back of the house.

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 23:38:57 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 14:51:27 -0500, FrozenNorth
Yep, I have never worried about it in Canada is the 17 years I have been
in this house, never a problem. Those in the deep south do not need to
worry, it will all be melted in a couple days anyway.

What kind of roof do you have that you don't have to worry about ice
dams?

Keep the roof at a constant temperature and you won't get ice dams.
The problem arises then ice melts in the center of the roof and
refreezes at the soffits, where it's cooler. The idea is to ventilate
the roof so that it stays the same temperature across the span, as
over the soffits.

On 1/29/2014 2:34 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/29/2014 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Your roof isn't constructed right. If it was, what you describe
wouldn't happen.

Really. Ice damning is a normal occurrence. I do not have an A frame
house which is geared to shed the snow much more easily.

But most roofs unless pitched excessively will not shed the snow.

--
Jeff

On 1/29/2014 12:52 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/29/2014 2:34 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/29/2014 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Your roof isn't constructed right. If it was, what you describe
wouldn't happen.

Really. Ice damning is a normal occurrence.

So what? If a roof is constructed properly, ice damming will not cause
water to do what you describe. There are millions of properly
constructed roofs to prove it.

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 12:54:45 -0700, Just Wondering
wrote:

On 1/29/2014 12:52 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/29/2014 2:34 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/29/2014 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Your roof isn't constructed right. If it was, what you describe
wouldn't happen.

Really. Ice damning is a normal occurrence.

So what? If a roof is constructed properly, ice damming will not cause
water to do what you describe. There are millions of properly
constructed roofs to prove it.

And millions that are not as water tight, so to err on the side of
caution is not a bad idea. I have found it really difficult to
determine whether it is "constructed right" by looking from the
ground.

Mark

On 1/29/2014 3:05 PM, Markem wrote:
And millions that are not as water tight, so to err on the side of
caution is not a bad idea. I have found it really difficult to
determine whether it is "constructed right" by looking from the
ground.


Properly installed, "water and ice shield", you should be able to see it
under the drip edge, where it has been rolled over the fascia ... you
just have to get close enough to see if it's there.

It it is over the drip edge, the installation is suspect.

Amazingly enough, we do spec "water and ice shield" in our roofing
contracts down here in Texas ... at least those interested in doing
things right do.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 12:54:45 -0700, Just Wondering
wrote:

On 1/29/2014 12:52 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/29/2014 2:34 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/29/2014 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Your roof isn't constructed right. If it was, what you describe
wouldn't happen.

Really. Ice damning is a normal occurrence.

So what? If a roof is constructed properly, ice damming will not cause
water to do what you describe. There are millions of properly
constructed roofs to prove it.
Built for southern conditions, then hit with snow, could conseivably
cause ide dam problems. We build differently in snow zones.

A "properly constructed" roof in Atlanta or New Orleans would not be
built to handle snow and freeze-thaw cycles.

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:54:25 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 12:54:45 -0700, Just Wondering
wrote:

On 1/29/2014 12:52 PM, woodchucker wrote:
On 1/29/2014 2:34 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 1/29/2014 11:59 AM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Your roof isn't constructed right. If it was, what you describe
wouldn't happen.

Really. Ice damning is a normal occurrence.

So what? If a roof is constructed properly, ice damming will not cause
water to do what you describe. There are millions of properly
constructed roofs to prove it.
Built for southern conditions, then hit with snow, could conseivably
cause ide dam problems. We build differently in snow zones.

A "properly constructed" roof in Atlanta or New Orleans would not be
built to handle snow and freeze-thaw cycles.

I see no difference in the (new home) roof construction here, compared
to the construction in Vermont. Roofs on newer homes tend to be
steeper, here, in fact. No idea why.

On 01/29/2014 12:59 PM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Just an FYI..

I have never seen an ice dam form in AL. usually or snow events last for
10 hours or so and melt completely in a day or so.

If we have a mini ice age, I'll heed your warning.

What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an inch
on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow over some
pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the tens of
thousands. I don't understand it.

I don't claim any great driving skill but I managed to drive 150 plus
miles in the same mess without any problems. (in a two wheel drive pickup)

basilisk

On 1/29/2014 2:37 PM, basilisk wrote:

What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons,

Apparently a good many northerners could benefit also?

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 01/29/2014 03:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/29/2014 2:37 PM, basilisk wrote:

What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons,

Apparently a good many northerners could benefit also?

No doubt, there could be some benefit all around the Country. Al has
zero requirements for drivers education other than a short written test
and a very limited road test.
If the parents aren't responsible enough to teach their kids, it is
basically here are the keys take off. It ends badly too often.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink


I'm surprised really that the Northern states aren't worse than shown,
considering the amount of snow that they have and the large populations.

Alabama probably averages less than one day a year of snow and ice.

Texas looks high, but on the other hand, the Dallas metro area alone has
1.5 times the entire population of Alabama.

basilisk

On 1/29/2014 2:37 PM, basilisk wrote:
....

I have never seen an ice dam form in AL. usually or snow events last for
10 hours or so and melt completely in a day or so.

If we have a mini ice age, I'll heed your warning.

What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an inch
on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow over some
pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the tens of
thousands. I don't understand it.

I don't claim any great driving skill but I managed to drive 150 plus
miles in the same mess without any problems. (in a two wheel drive pickup)

The primary problem is they simply won't slow down sufficiently enough
to even have a half-chance when they do lose it when either

a) somebody in front loses it,
b) they try to pass on icy lane and lose it,
c) they try to stop themselves

as the primary instigators.

I'm always simply amazed at how many UPS drivers seem no better,
nationwide. They must be in the OTR race for rollovers and landing in
medians/ditches by an order of magnitude or more compared the rest of
the national carrier brands...

We had just a couple of inches Monday night that left a fairly slick
surface on the blacktop bypass around town Tuesday. I'd run to town for
the mail after shoveling the walks off and doing chores and was about
plowed over by an oversize load guy while in the turn lane to make the
turn on our road waiting for oncoming. I was getting ready to head on
straight and hit the ditch behind the other guy when he did finally
manage to straighten it out but wasn't but a few lengths behind me when
he did...again, nothing but idiocy of trying to drive 50 in 30 mph
conditions. There were enough tracks that even his load rig started
swinging from one to another and when he tried to shut 'er down he did
it too quickly...very easy to see what was happening; not much of
anywhere to go w/ the other one coming over the hill from the south.

--

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 15:28:32 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 1/29/2014 2:37 PM, basilisk wrote:
...

I have never seen an ice dam form in AL. usually or snow events last for
10 hours or so and melt completely in a day or so.

If we have a mini ice age, I'll heed your warning.

What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an inch
on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow over some
pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the tens of
thousands. I don't understand it.

I don't claim any great driving skill but I managed to drive 150 plus
miles in the same mess without any problems. (in a two wheel drive pickup)

The primary problem is they simply won't slow down sufficiently enough
to even have a half-chance when they do lose it when either

a) somebody in front loses it,
b) they try to pass on icy lane and lose it,
c) they try to stop themselves

I found exactly the opposite, yesterday. People were so scared they
wouldn't move. They drove too *slow* (as in stopped) and the snow
under them turned to ice. There wasn't a chance to blow lanes clear
of pack the snow before it turned to ice. People stopped at the
bottom of hills. They're probably still there.

The other big problem is that there are no Winter tires here (myself
included) and many are running slicks.

Then there are the truly stupid, like the guy that did a 3-point
U-turn in front of me, into a driveway that was declined about 5' in
40'. Of course he was driving a 2WD pickup with no weight in the
back. I was also driving a pickup (no weight) but I have good tires
and was smart enough to pick the next driveway (flat). Some bozo
couldn't even manage that driveway and drove over the person's lawn to
get out.

as the primary instigators.

I'm always simply amazed at how many UPS drivers seem no better,
nationwide. They must be in the OTR race for rollovers and landing in
medians/ditches by an order of magnitude or more compared the rest of
the national carrier brands...

Their trucks don't looks especially good for snow; top and front
heavy, with RWD.

We had just a couple of inches Monday night that left a fairly slick
surface on the blacktop bypass around town Tuesday. I'd run to town for
the mail after shoveling the walks off and doing chores and was about
plowed over by an oversize load guy while in the turn lane to make the
turn on our road waiting for oncoming. I was getting ready to head on
straight and hit the ditch behind the other guy when he did finally
manage to straighten it out but wasn't but a few lengths behind me when
he did...again, nothing but idiocy of trying to drive 50 in 30 mph
conditions. There were enough tracks that even his load rig started
swinging from one to another and when he tried to shut 'er down he did
it too quickly...very easy to see what was happening; not much of
anywhere to go w/ the other one coming over the hill from the south.

I tell people that the "shoulder is your friend" but here there are
many places there is no shoulder, only a 20' drop to the woods below.

On 01/29/2014 03:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 15:28:32 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 1/29/2014 2:37 PM, basilisk wrote:
...

I have never seen an ice dam form in AL. usually or snow events last for
10 hours or so and melt completely in a day or so.

If we have a mini ice age, I'll heed your warning.

What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an inch
on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow over some
pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the tens of
thousands. I don't understand it.

I don't claim any great driving skill but I managed to drive 150 plus
miles in the same mess without any problems. (in a two wheel drive pickup)

The primary problem is they simply won't slow down sufficiently enough
to even have a half-chance when they do lose it when either

a) somebody in front loses it,
b) they try to pass on icy lane and lose it,
c) they try to stop themselves

I found exactly the opposite, yesterday. People were so scared they
wouldn't move. They drove too *slow* (as in stopped) and the snow
under them turned to ice. There wasn't a chance to blow lanes clear
of pack the snow before it turned to ice. People stopped at the
bottom of hills. They're probably still there.

Yep, got behind one going so slow that there was no way they were going
to make it over the next hill, I found a nice place to pull over and
waited until they were out of the picture before going on.

The other big problem is that there are no Winter tires here (myself
included) and many are running slicks.

I do have good mud/snow tires, it helps.

Then there are the truly stupid, like the guy that did a 3-point
U-turn in front of me, into a driveway that was declined about 5' in
40'. Of course he was driving a 2WD pickup with no weight in the
back. I was also driving a pickup (no weight) but I have good tires
and was smart enough to pick the next driveway (flat). Some bozo
couldn't even manage that driveway and drove over the person's lawn to
get out.

as the primary instigators.

I'm always simply amazed at how many UPS drivers seem no better,
nationwide. They must be in the OTR race for rollovers and landing in
medians/ditches by an order of magnitude or more compared the rest of
the national carrier brands...

Their trucks don't looks especially good for snow; top and front
heavy, with RWD.

We had just a couple of inches Monday night that left a fairly slick
surface on the blacktop bypass around town Tuesday. I'd run to town for
the mail after shoveling the walks off and doing chores and was about
plowed over by an oversize load guy while in the turn lane to make the
turn on our road waiting for oncoming. I was getting ready to head on
straight and hit the ditch behind the other guy when he did finally
manage to straighten it out but wasn't but a few lengths behind me when
he did...again, nothing but idiocy of trying to drive 50 in 30 mph
conditions. There were enough tracks that even his load rig started
swinging from one to another and when he tried to shut 'er down he did
it too quickly...very easy to see what was happening; not much of
anywhere to go w/ the other one coming over the hill from the south.

I tell people that the "shoulder is your friend" but here there are
many places there is no shoulder, only a 20' drop to the woods below.

None here either, only on the interstates, not even the US highways have
usable shoulders.

basilisk

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 16:32:46 -0600, basilisk
wrote:

On 01/29/2014 03:59 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 15:28:32 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 1/29/2014 2:37 PM, basilisk wrote:
...

I have never seen an ice dam form in AL. usually or snow events last for
10 hours or so and melt completely in a day or so.

If we have a mini ice age, I'll heed your warning.

What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an inch
on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow over some
pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the tens of
thousands. I don't understand it.

I don't claim any great driving skill but I managed to drive 150 plus
miles in the same mess without any problems. (in a two wheel drive pickup)

The primary problem is they simply won't slow down sufficiently enough
to even have a half-chance when they do lose it when either

a) somebody in front loses it,
b) they try to pass on icy lane and lose it,
c) they try to stop themselves

I found exactly the opposite, yesterday. People were so scared they
wouldn't move. They drove too *slow* (as in stopped) and the snow
under them turned to ice. There wasn't a chance to blow lanes clear
of pack the snow before it turned to ice. People stopped at the
bottom of hills. They're probably still there.

Yep, got behind one going so slow that there was no way they were going
to make it over the next hill, I found a nice place to pull over and
waited until they were out of the picture before going on.

Same thing happened tonight on the way home (two days after the snow).
Some moron got stuck on the same hill and cops had the road blocked
off. I had to drive ~10Mi around. There is still a lot of ice
around, where the sun couldn't get at it.

The other big problem is that there are no Winter tires here (myself
included) and many are running slicks.

I do have good mud/snow tires, it helps.

I don't. It's a new truck so has new tires but it does get a little
goosy going up slick hills. My wife has been stuck at home since
Monday and is about to go over the wall. I went into work at noon and
called back to tell her to forget it.

...

On 1/29/2014 3:59 PM, wrote:
....

I tell people that the "shoulder is your friend" but here there are
many places there is no shoulder, only a 20' drop to the woods below.

That's the problem w/ large portions east of the Mississippi...we're
flat (a hill means can't see most all of a passenger car coming, a "big"
hill means the combine instead ). There's a nice bar ditch along
that stretch of highway but narrow shoulders; fortunately it is 3-lane
paved and the other guy was under control enough give me enough
clearance to get across the turn before he got there---he could also see
what was happening and waved me across when he saw me hesitate for the
frac I wasn't sure which to try...

The really irritating part is the out-of-control guy was nearly a full
half-mile away when I got on in front of him just leaving the light at
the intersection where the two highways cross. I turned my signal
blinker on while he still had most of that left to modulate with
probably 3/8-ths of a mile to go to let him know to time his arrival
appropriately. He _still_ hammered it and was over the posted dry-
condition 45 mph limit by the time he was nearing I'm sure...not all
"pros" are (or at least in any way other than the pay).

--

"basilisk" wrote in message
...


What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an inch
on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow over some
pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the tens of
thousands. I don't understand it.

Last Wednesday morning one of those drivers got stuck on the railroad tracks
just north of Gainesville... the AMTRAK train I was on hit the car shortly
after the driver abandoned it. Net result was a tow truck was needed to
pull the car out of the front of the train and we had a 2 hour 20 minute
delay... I saw thousands of abandoned and trapped cars... 3-5 lane wide
parking lots that went on for mile after mile! Glad we skirted most of the
problems... ran into some closed roads though as so many cars were abandoned
that they were blocked to further traffic. Crazy!

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"basilisk" wrote in message
...


What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an
inch on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow
over some pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the
tens of thousands. I don't understand it.

Last Wednesday morning one of those drivers got stuck on the railroad
tracks just north of Gainesville... the AMTRAK train I was on hit the
car shortly after the driver abandoned it. Net result was a tow
truck was needed to pull the car out of the front of the train and we
had a 2 hour 20 minute delay... I saw thousands of abandoned and
trapped cars... 3-5 lane wide parking lots that went on for mile
after mile! Glad we skirted most of the problems... ran into some
closed roads though as so many cars were abandoned that they were
blocked to further traffic. Crazy!

I've seen similar types of congestion in the south where they just don't
have the equipment to deal with this kind of storm. To be honest, our
drivers up north are getting more and more stupid as the years go by. We
see way more foolish stuff that people up here should just simply be aware
of, but seemingly are not. I guess it just owes to the dumbing down of
people. We don't see the same kind of problems since we are in the snow
country and we at least do have the equipment to deal with it but we seem to
be growing a newer and newer crop of stupidity.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

John Grossbohlin wrote:

Last Wednesday morning one of those drivers got stuck on the railroad
tracks just north of Gainesville... the AMTRAK train I was on hit the
car shortly after the driver abandoned it. Net result was a tow
truck was needed to pull the car out of the front of the train and we
had a 2 hour 20 minute delay... I saw thousands of abandoned and
trapped cars... 3-5 lane wide parking lots that went on for mile
after mile! Glad we skirted most of the problems... ran into some
closed roads though as so many cars were abandoned that they were
blocked to further traffic. Crazy!

I've seen similar types of congestion in the south where they just don't
have the equipment to deal with this kind of storm. To be honest, our
drivers up north are getting more and more stupid as the years go by. We
see way more foolish stuff that people up here should just simply be aware
of, but seemingly are not. I guess it just owes to the dumbing down of
people. We don't see the same kind of problems since we are in the snow
country and we at least do have the equipment to deal with it but we seem
to be growing a newer and newer crop of stupidity.

From the Atlanta area news, as well as some "in the know" folks I was
visiting, they have equipment but don't know how to use it. I found it
rather funny that they weren't putting the sand/salt on the road "because
there were too many cars on the roads." They also didn't react soon enough.

More of an observation than a opinion: Four wheel drive, anti-lock brakes,
stability control, improvements in tires, etc. have given folks an
unwarranted sense of confidence. Another case of technology leading to lost
skills...

On 2/5/2014 8:58 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

More of an observation than a opinion: Four wheel drive, anti-lock
brakes, stability control, improvements in tires, etc. have given folks
an unwarranted sense of confidence. Another case of technology leading
to lost skills...

Tailgating is something you used to rarely see on the roads around here,
now it's epidemic.

When schools used to actually teach it, driver's ed classes had a simple
formula for estimating a safe distance between you and the car in front
of you: one car length for every ten mph of speed on a dry road, add 1
or 1 for other road conditions.

My youngest daughter was instead taught the ‘Two Second Rule’ when she
took DE.

Problem is ‘The Two Second Rule’ requires more math skills to calculate
.... and schools no longer teach math skills.

The other problem is that if you do keep a safe distance between you and
the car in front of you, some Asshat will immediately occupy it.

IOW, I'll go with the "stupider" theory...

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Wed, 5 Feb 2014 09:58:16 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ...

John Grossbohlin wrote:

Last Wednesday morning one of those drivers got stuck on the railroad
tracks just north of Gainesville... the AMTRAK train I was on hit the
car shortly after the driver abandoned it. Net result was a tow
truck was needed to pull the car out of the front of the train and we
had a 2 hour 20 minute delay... I saw thousands of abandoned and
trapped cars... 3-5 lane wide parking lots that went on for mile
after mile! Glad we skirted most of the problems... ran into some
closed roads though as so many cars were abandoned that they were
blocked to further traffic. Crazy!

I've seen similar types of congestion in the south where they just don't
have the equipment to deal with this kind of storm. To be honest, our
drivers up north are getting more and more stupid as the years go by. We
see way more foolish stuff that people up here should just simply be aware
of, but seemingly are not. I guess it just owes to the dumbing down of
people. We don't see the same kind of problems since we are in the snow
country and we at least do have the equipment to deal with it but we seem
to be growing a newer and newer crop of stupidity.

From the Atlanta area news, as well as some "in the know" folks I was
visiting, they have equipment but don't know how to use it. I found it
rather funny that they weren't putting the sand/salt on the road "because
there were too many cars on the roads." They also didn't react soon enough.

They have thirty plows (or something like that) for a city of 4.5M. As
far as not knowing how to use it, well, if you only have a need for it
once every three to ten years, it's hard to remember (and keep the
equipment up).

The roads were ice, quite quickly. Salt would have fixed everything
but THERE IS NO SALT AND NOTHING TO SPREAD IT WITH.

More of an observation than a opinion: Four wheel drive, anti-lock brakes,
stability control, improvements in tires, etc. have given folks an
unwarranted sense of confidence. Another case of technology leading to lost
skills...

Nonsense. People have lost all sorts of skills in all areas of life.
They're simply not being educated.

On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 23:34:55 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"basilisk" wrote in message
...


What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an
inch on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow
over some pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the
tens of thousands. I don't understand it.

Last Wednesday morning one of those drivers got stuck on the railroad
tracks just north of Gainesville... the AMTRAK train I was on hit the
car shortly after the driver abandoned it. Net result was a tow
truck was needed to pull the car out of the front of the train and we
had a 2 hour 20 minute delay... I saw thousands of abandoned and
trapped cars... 3-5 lane wide parking lots that went on for mile
after mile! Glad we skirted most of the problems... ran into some
closed roads though as so many cars were abandoned that they were
blocked to further traffic. Crazy!

I've seen similar types of congestion in the south where they just don't
have the equipment to deal with this kind of storm. To be honest, our
drivers up north are getting more and more stupid as the years go by. We
see way more foolish stuff that people up here should just simply be aware
of, but seemingly are not. I guess it just owes to the dumbing down of
people. We don't see the same kind of problems since we are in the snow
country and we at least do have the equipment to deal with it but we seem to
be growing a newer and newer crop of stupidity.

+1

When I was in Detroit last month I saw exactly the same stupid
behavior that the Northerners are whining at the Southerners about.

On Tue, 4 Feb 2014 23:34:55 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

John Grossbohlin wrote:
"basilisk" wrote in message
...


What most southerners could really benefit from is rudimentary
driving lessons, for instance yesterday there was a little over an
inch on the roads, it's cold enough that it is a dry blowing snow
over some pack ice on the roads. People drove in the ditches by the
tens of thousands. I don't understand it.

Last Wednesday morning one of those drivers got stuck on the railroad
tracks just north of Gainesville... the AMTRAK train I was on hit the
car shortly after the driver abandoned it. Net result was a tow
truck was needed to pull the car out of the front of the train and we
had a 2 hour 20 minute delay... I saw thousands of abandoned and
trapped cars... 3-5 lane wide parking lots that went on for mile
after mile! Glad we skirted most of the problems... ran into some
closed roads though as so many cars were abandoned that they were
blocked to further traffic. Crazy!

I've seen similar types of congestion in the south where they just don't
have the equipment to deal with this kind of storm. To be honest, our
drivers up north are getting more and more stupid as the years go by. We
see way more foolish stuff that people up here should just simply be aware
of, but seemingly are not. I guess it just owes to the dumbing down of
people. We don't see the same kind of problems since we are in the snow
country and we at least do have the equipment to deal with it but we seem to
be growing a newer and newer crop of stupidity.
Well, I was supposed to go out to the airport for my weekly "hangar
lunch" at noon, but the white crap was coming down pretty good - and
it was that grainy crap - not nice soft flakes - which made the roads
slippery as goose ****. The pick-em-up has snows and posi - but trying
to get around the corner from Weber Street to Columbia in Waterloo
the truck wanted to go straight ahead whether I had the brakes or the
gas on, and regardless which way I had the wheels turned. The snow
bank stopped me. Then I had to stop again when there were about a
dozen vehicles trying to make it up the grade in 6 inches of snow - I
went all the way up the hill crosswise, and decided to just go home
(another 2 blocks on the level) instead of another 10 miles of country
hills and curves.

Sometimes it's all about knowing when to quit!!!

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:59:18 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Just an FYI..

Hmm. When I lived in Vermont, it was no problem. The roofs stayed
cold enough that ice dams weren't a problem. Well, in the houses that
weren't built in the '70s or early '80s.

Here in GA it might be more of a concern. Though we only got a couple
of inches of snow and it'll probably all be gone Saturday.

The issue was the attic getting warmer than freezing while the eves
were colder. Any water then gets "dammed" by the ice over the eves.
This shouldn't be a problem, in this case, because the roof will be
the same temperature, as it warms. Assuming a ventilated attic and
insulation, of course.

On 1/29/2014 1:59 PM, woodchucker wrote:
For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.


A good idea. I'm one of the ones in a city ill prepared for two inches
of snow.

Here they don't even require tar paper, let alone ice damn membrane. Not
sure how well the membrane works, but I had it put in.

I've got a truck across the street that slid backwards and wedged itself
in between a phone pole and a cement wall. Almost no damage now, but I
imagine that won't be the case when it is pulled out!

Southerners do not understand ice and snow. I hear a car at this very
moment gunning the engine trying to move.

Jeff


Just an FYI..

On 1/30/2014 7:13 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:

Southerners do not understand ice and snow.

Bull****! We even have a snowplow:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 1/30/2014 8:31 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 1/30/2014 7:13 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:

Southerners do not understand ice and snow.

Bull****! We even have a snowplow:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink




Damn fine machine!

Swingman wrote:
On 1/30/2014 7:13 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:

Southerners do not understand ice and snow.

Bull****! We even have a snowplow:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

Leave it to a Texan to put tire chains on the rear wheels of a front wheel
drive car...

--

-Mike-

On 1/30/2014 10:13 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 1/30/2014 7:13 AM, Jeff Thies wrote:

Southerners do not understand ice and snow.

Bull****! We even have a snowplow:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink

Leave it to a Texan to put tire chains on the rear wheels of a front wheel
drive car...

Yep, go figure. Since southerners obviously don't know understand ice
and snow, one of our 'winter Texans'/"snowbirds" from the NE was tasked
with that job. You know, one of those who collect unemployment in NJ in
the winter, while coming down here to work until it warms up enough to
go back. Unfortunately, he skidded off the road when it rained here a
couple of winters back and is currently collecting both disability and
unemployment.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:


Yep, go figure. Since southerners obviously don't know understand ice
and snow, one of our 'winter Texans'/"snowbirds" from the NE was
tasked with that job. You know, one of those who collect unemployment
in NJ in the winter, while coming down here to work until it warms up
enough to go back. Unfortunately, he skidded off the road when it
rained here a couple of winters back and is currently collecting both
disability and unemployment.

Wait a minute - you guys don't really have snowbirds, do you? I thought
that everyone who migrated down to Texas simply stayed there.

As for the displaced NJ employee - well hell - of course! These guys know
how to work those systems. Disability is listed as a professional skill on
their resumes.

--

-Mike-

On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:59:18 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Just an FYI..


I would not think that a properly vented roof would ice dam.

On 1/30/2014 10:01 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:59:18 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Just an FYI..


I would not think that a properly vented roof would ice dam.

Ok, you get to believe what you want.

I know that even a well insulated attic , well ventilated will still damn.

The problem is the sun and air, it will melt the snow, and that will
refreeze at night if cold enough (usually is). Then the rethaw will
start the process over.... And that is where the problem occurs.

When my house was built, they did not have the glue down membranes in
use regularly. Now I believe they do. I am due for a new roof, but it
will likely be a second layer.. so not really ideal for a membrane.

--
Jeff

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 11:00:48 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 1/30/2014 10:01 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:59:18 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

For those of you not in snow country..
Some of you got dumped on..

It pays to get the snow off the 1st 2 feet of the roof. I have a snow
rake and get about 4 feet off. But assuming most of you southerners
don't have it.

Take a broom and try to get the 2 feet at the bottom of your roofs
cleared. It may save you lots of money in rotted wood, or your shop if
you have a basement shop.

Years ago the ice damn caused a lot of water to run inside the house and
it travelled the joists and soaked a lot of wood and also rusted a lot
of stuff.

Just an FYI..


I would not think that a properly vented roof would ice dam.

Ok, you get to believe what you want.

I know that even a well insulated attic , well ventilated will still damn.

The problem is the sun and air, it will melt the snow, and that will
refreeze at night if cold enough (usually is). Then the rethaw will
start the process over.... And that is where the problem occurs.

When my house was built, they did not have the glue down membranes in
use regularly. Now I believe they do. I am due for a new roof, but it
will likely be a second layer.. so not really ideal for a membrane.

I was referring to how the attic is ventilated above the soffit.

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 11:00:48 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:



Ok, you get to believe what you want.

I know that even a well insulated attic , well ventilated will still
damn.

The problem is the sun and air, it will melt the snow, and that will
refreeze at night if cold enough (usually is). Then the rethaw will
start the process over.... And that is where the problem occurs.

When my house was built, they did not have the glue down membranes in
use regularly. Now I believe they do. I am due for a new roof, but it
will likely be a second layer.. so not really ideal for a membrane.

I was referring to how the attic is ventilated above the soffit.

Perhaps you missed Jeff's opening comment about a well ventilated attic?
Ventilation is certainly key to minimizing ice build up but it does not
ensure no ice build up. Nor does more insulation.

--

-Mike-