I am making lots of drawers using an Akeda dovetail jig. They are
half blind and the wood is 3/4" baltic birch for the front and back
and 1/2" for the sides.

I have made some sample cuts to get the dept of cut adjustment correct.
The current adjustment yields a comfortably tight joint with complete
contact between the pins and tails. However, there is a uniform gap
of about 1/16" between the bottom of the tails on the sides of the drawer
and the pins on the front face of the drawer.

At first I thought some part of a wood layer in the baltic birch had chipped
out during the process of cutting the pins. However, that appears not to be the case; it has a nice smooth surface formed by the router.

Anybody had this problem with the Akeda?

Len

Len wrote:
I am making lots of drawers using an Akeda dovetail jig. They are
half blind and the wood is 3/4" baltic birch for the front and back
and 1/2" for the sides.

I have made some sample cuts to get the dept of cut adjustment correct.
The current adjustment yields a comfortably tight joint with complete
contact between the pins and tails. However, there is a uniform gap
of about 1/16" between the bottom of the tails on the sides of the drawer
and the pins on the front face of the drawer.

At first I thought some part of a wood layer in the baltic birch had chipped
out during the process of cutting the pins. However, that appears not to
be the case; it has a nice smooth surface formed by the router.

Anybody had this problem with the Akeda?

Len

Define comfortably tight.. Correctly tight is when you can slip the
pieces together easily by hand.

My definition of tight is the same as yours. I keep looking for a problem with my setup, but cannot see any solutions that would fix this problem. At first I thought the bit slipped. Called them and they said try oil on the collett or a new collett. I have done the first; I have a new collett waiting for today's trials. But, I don't think it will do anything.

Len

Leon wrote:
wrote:
I am making lots of drawers using an Akeda dovetail jig. They are
half blind and the wood is 3/4" baltic birch for the front and back
and 1/2" for the sides.

I have made some sample cuts to get the dept of cut adjustment correct.
The current adjustment yields a comfortably tight joint with complete
contact between the pins and tails. However, there is a uniform gap
of about 1/16" between the bottom of the tails on the sides of the drawer
and the pins on the front face of the drawer.

At first I thought some part of a wood layer in the baltic birch had chipped
out during the process of cutting the pins. However, that appears not to
be the case; it has a nice smooth surface formed by the router.

Anybody had this problem with the Akeda?

Len

Define comfortably tight.. Correctly tight is when you can slip the
pieces together easily by hand.

Tight is good! Remember the old Ray Charles song, "Born Too Loose" ?

--
 GW Ross 

 It worked! Now if only I could 
 remember what I did!

On 6/19/2013 8:33 AM, Len wrote:
My definition of tight is the same as yours. I keep looking for a problem with my setup, but cannot see any solutions that would fix this problem. At first I thought the bit slipped. Called them and they said try oil on the collett or a new collett. I have done the first; I have a new collett waiting for today's trials. But, I don't think it will do anything.

Len



I read your explanation and interpreted it in two different ways. I'll
assume that you mean that the tails are not filling the sockets/tails.


Off hand it sounds like the cut between the tails is not deep enough to
match that of the pins.


Is you wood perfectly flat? Not relying on the jig clamp to flatten it
out?

Is the wood flush on the under side of the guide fingers?

Is the end of the board square to the faces? If it is at a slight angle
it could prevent one face from toughing the bottom of the guide fingers.
"Don't rely on a factory edge to be flat or square to the faces of the
panel."

These things to look for are not unique to the Akita however in this
respect the Akita works a lot like most any other DT jig.

As far as the collett is concerned be sure that it's base is not proud
of the router base plate. I could ride on top of some fingers and lift
the router and you end up with shorter tails.

Now having said all of this if the DT's are fitting together nicely,
except for filling the void, when you eventually eliminate the gap you
are likely going to also have to reposition the depth of the bit in the
process.

Typically you cut deeper to tighten a loose fit and cut shallower to
loosen a tight fit.

I have done, and checked many times, all of the above items. That's why it has been so frustrating. I guess I could try tightening the joint a bit (again). I will also measure the depth of the bit before starting, after doing the pins, and after doing the tails. That would tell me if the collett is slipping a bit.

Len

On 6/19/2013 11:06 AM, Len wrote:
I have done, and checked many times, all of the above items. That's why it has been so frustrating. I guess I could try tightening the joint a bit (again). I will also measure the depth of the bit before starting, after doing the pins, and after doing the tails. That would tell me if the collett is slipping a bit.

Len



Providing the depth of both the pins and tails are not the same,
changing the cutting depth will not do any thing except change the
spacing between the pins and tails. Changing the spacing is what makes
the joint fit looser or tighter.

You absolutely should not be having to change cutter depth between
operations.

If your results are yielding different pin and tail lengths either,

1. Your bit is sliping
2. The work is not flush against the bottom of the guide fingers
3. The router is base is not always setting flush with the guide pins.

On 6/19/2013 11:06 AM, Len wrote:
I have done, and checked many times, all of the above items. That's
why it has been so frustrating. I guess I could try tightening the
joint a bit (again). I will also measure the depth of the bit before
starting, after doing the pins, and after doing the tails. That
would tell me if the collett is slipping a bit.

http://akeda.com/videos/resources.videos.html

I've not used the Akeda but my understanding is there's a particular
bushing and bit specific to the jig and other than that it's all stock
preparation. Shouldn't be any depth setting other than that of
appropriate to the stock thickness.

--

On Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:06:18 -0700 (PDT), Len
wrote:

I have done, and checked many times, all of the above items. That's why it has been so frustrating. I guess I could try tightening the joint a bit (again). I will also measure the depth of the bit before starting, after doing the pins, and after doing the tails. That would tell me if the collett is slipping a bit.

Len
If you have the manual page 30 has the symptom I think you are
descriping. They are suggesting that your router may have a phenolic
base that is flexing allowing the router to cut deeper most likely at
the ends.

Mike M

Not a problem with the base. It's flat and rigid. So far, I have replaced the collett, used oil on the collett, and begun to record the depth of the bit from the bottom of the router. At first it varied less than .01 inches when routing a set of pins and tails. After 2 or 3 boards it suddenly drops the bit and ruins the piece. I did notice a bit of chatter when cutting. I suppose I could try another one of my routers; I also ordered a new bit to see if it is just a dull bit problem. If that does not work I will give up and resort to the inferior tongue/groove method of making drawers.

Len

"Len" wrote:

Not a problem with the base. It's flat and rigid. So far, I have
replaced the collett, used oil on the collett, and begun to record
the depth of the bit from the bottom of the router. At first it
varied less than .01 inches when routing a set of pins and tails.
After 2 or 3 boards it suddenly drops the bit and ruins the piece.
I did notice a bit of chatter when cutting. I suppose I could try
another one of my routers; I also ordered a new bit to see if it is
just a dull bit problem. If that does not work I will give up and
resort to the inferior tongue/groove method of making drawers.
------------------------------------------------
Time to talk to Pat Barber and get one of his bases that centers the
guide bushing relative to the bit.

Lew

Len wrote:
Not a problem with the base. It's flat and rigid. So far, I have
replaced the collett, used oil on the collett, and begun to record the
depth of the bit from the bottom of the router. At first it varied less
than .01 inches when routing a set of pins and tails. After 2 or 3
boards it suddenly drops the bit and ruins the piece. I did notice a bit
of chatter when cutting. I suppose I could try another one of my routers;
I also ordered a new bit to see if it is just a dull bit problem. If
that does not work I will give up and resort to the inferior
tongue/groove method of making drawers.

Len

Craftsman router huh?

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Len" wrote:

Not a problem with the base. It's flat and rigid. So far, I have
replaced the collett, used oil on the collett, and begun to record
the depth of the bit from the bottom of the router. At first it
varied less than .01 inches when routing a set of pins and tails.
After 2 or 3 boards it suddenly drops the bit and ruins the piece.
I did notice a bit of chatter when cutting. I suppose I could try
another one of my routers; I also ordered a new bit to see if it is
just a dull bit problem. If that does not work I will give up and
resort to the inferior tongue/groove method of making drawers.
------------------------------------------------
Time to talk to Pat Barber and get one of his bases that centers the
guide bushing relative to the bit.


That won't help the problem he describes Lew. His bit is moving in the
collet.

--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:
Len wrote:
Not a problem with the base. It's flat and rigid. So far, I have
replaced the collett, used oil on the collett, and begun to record
the depth of the bit from the bottom of the router. At first it
varied less than .01 inches when routing a set of pins and tails.
After 2 or 3 boards it suddenly drops the bit and ruins the piece.
I did notice a bit of chatter when cutting. I suppose I could try
another one of my routers; I also ordered a new bit to see if it is
just a dull bit problem. If that does not work I will give up and
resort to the inferior tongue/groove method of making drawers.

Len

Craftsman router huh?

I gave one of those to my son several years ago, and told him to get a new
collet for it. He did - I can't remember what brand he bought, but it was
not a replacement collet from sears, for that model router. It was either
Porter Cable or DeWalt if my memory serves me correctly. I could find out
exactly what he got, but the important part is that he has not slipped a bit
since he replace that collet. No more auto-adjusting Craftsman router.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:
Len wrote:
Not a problem with the base. It's flat and rigid. So far, I have
replaced the collett, used oil on the collett, and begun to record
the depth of the bit from the bottom of the router. At first it
varied less than .01 inches when routing a set of pins and tails.
After 2 or 3 boards it suddenly drops the bit and ruins the piece.
I did notice a bit of chatter when cutting. I suppose I could try
another one of my routers; I also ordered a new bit to see if it is
just a dull bit problem. If that does not work I will give up and
resort to the inferior tongue/groove method of making drawers.

Len

Craftsman router huh?

I gave one of those to my son several years ago, and told him to get a new
collet for it. He did - I can't remember what brand he bought, but it was
not a replacement collet from sears, for that model router. It was either
Porter Cable or DeWalt if my memory serves me correctly. I could find out
exactly what he got, but the important part is that he has not slipped a bit
since he replace that collet. No more auto-adjusting Craftsman router.


Lucky to be able to replace the collet. Years ago I had 2 or 3 different
Craftsman routers and there was no fix. Those particular routers simply
had a hole drilled in the end of the motor armature and slots cut into the
sides. Once the inside wore there was no solution.

"Leon" wrote

Lucky to be able to replace the collet. Years ago I had 2 or 3 different
Craftsman routers and there was no fix. Those particular routers simply
had a hole drilled in the end of the motor armature and slots cut into the
sides. Once the inside wore there was no solution.

But from the Craftsman perspective, there was a perfect solution. Just buy
another Craftsman router! build 'em cheap. Sell 'em cheap. Sell the same
tool over and over again.

Lee Michaels wrote:
"Leon" wrote

Lucky to be able to replace the collet. Years ago I had 2 or 3
different Craftsman routers and there was no fix. Those particular
routers simply had a hole drilled in the end of the motor armature
and slots cut into the sides. Once the inside wore there was no
solution.

But from the Craftsman perspective, there was a perfect solution. Just buy
another Craftsman router! build 'em cheap. Sell 'em cheap.
Sell the same tool over and over again.

Yeahbut the good part about that was that if you kept your auto-adjust
model, you had a spare spindle lock for when that broke on the new one -
which was the second most common issue with those.

--

-Mike-

On 6/21/2013 8:36 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Lee Michaels wrote:
"Leon" wrote

Lucky to be able to replace the collet. Years ago I had 2 or 3
different Craftsman routers and there was no fix. Those particular
routers simply had a hole drilled in the end of the motor armature
and slots cut into the sides. Once the inside wore there was no
solution.

But from the Craftsman perspective, there was a perfect solution. Just buy
another Craftsman router! build 'em cheap. Sell 'em cheap.
Sell the same tool over and over again.

Yeahbut the good part about that was that if you kept your auto-adjust
model, you had a spare spindle lock for when that broke on the new one -
which was the second most common issue with those.

Actually the fact that they broke was not as big of a problem as the
fact that they used a spindle lock in the first place. Once you learn
how to turn two wrenches at the same time it is so much easier to use
wrenches vs. a spindle lock.

The only time I appreciate a spindle lock on a router is when it is
mounted in a router table, otherwise for hand held routers it better
have a two wrench system or I am not going to bite.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The only time I appreciate a spindle lock on a router is when it is
mounted in a router table, otherwise for hand held routers it better have
a two wrench system or I am not going to bite.

Only thing I dislike about the Bosch Colt is the spindle lock.

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

Len wrote:
I am making lots of drawers using an Akeda dovetail jig. They are
half blind and the wood is 3/4" baltic birch for the front and back
and 1/2" for the sides.

I have made some sample cuts to get the dept of cut adjustment correct.
The current adjustment yields a comfortably tight joint with complete
contact between the pins and tails. However, there is a uniform gap
of about 1/16" between the bottom of the tails on the sides of the drawer
and the pins on the front face of the drawer.

At first I thought some part of a wood layer in the baltic birch had chipped
out during the process of cutting the pins. However, that appears not to
be the case; it has a nice smooth surface formed by the router.

Anybody had this problem with the Akeda?

I have the Akeda and have not had this problem. My first thought reading
your problem is to try another router.


--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

On 6/22/13 6:24 AM, Swingman wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The only time I appreciate a spindle lock on a router is when it is
mounted in a router table, otherwise for hand held routers it better have
a two wrench system or I am not going to bite.

Only thing I dislike about the Bosch Colt is the spindle lock.


Yep, mine sheared off in the first week. Had a hell-o-time finding a
thin metric wrench that could fit the flats on the spindle, finally
ended up grinding a combo wrench thin enough to fit.

-BR

On 6/22/2013 8:46 AM, Brewster wrote:
On 6/22/13 6:24 AM, Swingman wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

The only time I appreciate a spindle lock on a router is when it is
mounted in a router table, otherwise for hand held routers it better
have
a two wrench system or I am not going to bite.

Only thing I dislike about the Bosch Colt is the spindle lock.


Yep, mine sheared off in the first week. Had a hell-o-time finding a
thin metric wrench that could fit the flats on the spindle, finally
ended up grinding a combo wrench thin enough to fit.


Something I have been planning on doing for four or five years, but
still haven't gotten around to.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 19:18:36 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"Len" wrote:

Not a problem with the base. It's flat and rigid. So far, I have
replaced the collett, used oil on the collett, and begun to record
the depth of the bit from the bottom of the router. At first it
varied less than .01 inches when routing a set of pins and tails.
After 2 or 3 boards it suddenly drops the bit and ruins the piece.
I did notice a bit of chatter when cutting. I suppose I could try
another one of my routers; I also ordered a new bit to see if it is
just a dull bit problem. If that does not work I will give up and
resort to the inferior tongue/groove method of making drawers.
------------------------------------------------
Time to talk to Pat Barber and get one of his bases that centers the
guide bushing relative to the bit.

Lew


Pat Warner?

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:
Time to talk to Pat Barber and get one of his bases that centers the
guide bushing relative to the bit.

-------------------------------------------------
"Jim Weisgram" wrote:
Pat Warner?
--------------------------------------------------
Mea Culpa.

Sometimes I get my "Barber's" and my "Warner's" mixed up.G.

At least I got the router accessory right.

Lew

That's OK Lew, I have the same problem all the time. In any case, I had ordered a new clear base from Pat Warner last week. He is on vacation and will fill it in July. In the mean time I have tried everything else. A new Whiteside dovetail bit arrived yesterday. I'll try that next - everything else has been eliminated, except for the idiot pushing the router!

Len

On 6/25/2013 12:10 PM, Len wrote:
That's OK Lew, I have the same problem all the time. In any case, I had ordered a new clear base from Pat Warner last week. He is on vacation and will fill it in July. In the mean time I have tried everything else. A new Whiteside dovetail bit arrived yesterday. I'll try that next - everything else has been eliminated, except for the idiot pushing the router!

Len


Did you ever solve the problem? Inquiring minds want to know!

On Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:23:48 PM UTC-5, Len wrote:
I am making lots of drawers using an Akeda dovetail jig. They are

half blind and the wood is 3/4" baltic birch for the front and back

and 1/2" for the sides.



I have made some sample cuts to get the dept of cut adjustment correct.

The current adjustment yields a comfortably tight joint with complete

contact between the pins and tails. However, there is a uniform gap

of about 1/16" between the bottom of the tails on the sides of the drawer

and the pins on the front face of the drawer.



At first I thought some part of a wood layer in the baltic birch had chipped

out during the process of cutting the pins. However, that appears not to be the case; it has a nice smooth surface formed by the router.



Anybody had this problem with the Akeda?



Len



YES! I did eventually solve it. Apparently, it is a common problem with the Akeda Jig. I called their support number and they sent me a pdf file two types of gaps that could be occuring. I picked #2 and he described the solution over the phone.

SOLUTION: The drawers I was making had .5 inch thick sides and .75 inch front and back. When cutting the tails, I put the vertical .5 inch board in the jig to be cut. My method was to push it up unit it hit the plastic routing guides and then locked it in place. I then put a .75 inch thick scrap into the horizontal position and pushed it up to touch the back of the side piece. This board is sacrificial and is used to prevent tearout on the vertical board. The criterion for a good joint is not that the top of the vertical board touch the guides, but that the top must be flush with the top of the backer board. You would think that the plastic guides would automatically achieve this, but it doesn't. I needed to push the vertical board upward (really hard)against the plastic guides to get to the flush position. After that it worked fine - but I had already finished making the joints.

I think that Akeda could make the guides a bit thinner (so the vertical board did not touch them) and tell you the criterion is to get the boards flush, not to touch the bottom of the guides.

A hard lesson to learn!

Len