Hello.
I've watched this ng for quite some while and enjoy it immensely.
Some of the US stuff is not too relevant to UK, but I get the drift.
I'm, I suppose, a recreational woodworker. Have been so for 45 years. Decent
workshop equipped with all the tools I need. I do it for pleasure, knowledge
and recreation.
Not, or very rarely, for monetary gain. In short I enjoy what I do and I
enjoy doing it. In essence my time is not money, it's enjoyment.
I was taught how to work wood using hand tools.
Reading posts on this ng, you guys have power tools for just about anything
and everything.
I'm not in the slightest envious because I enjoy what I do. And I'm getting
too damned old.
Do you ever use hand tools?

A few things I really like about this ng:
1) few bad tempered rants.
2) Rob H's 'what is it'.
3) Good and well informed folk.
4) Very useful tips and hints.
5) General bonhomie.

I'll go and look for my old tin hat and hide beneath the parapet.

Good luck to all,
Nick.

"Nick" wrote in
:

*snip*

Do you ever use hand tools?

*snip*

Hand tools? You mean those things without cords? Sure, do that all the
time, but it's tough keeping the batteries charged! Always seems like it
goes dead halfway through a cut.

I do use human-powered hand tools occasionally. Depends on the project...
I've built things using only electric powered tools, but when it comes to
dovetails or joinery, hand tools are usually the preferred way to go. I'd
really miss my block planes if they were gone.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 4/28/2013 7:26 PM, Nick wrote:
Hello.
I've watched this ng for quite some while and enjoy it immensely.
Some of the US stuff is not too relevant to UK, but I get the drift.
I'm, I suppose, a recreational woodworker. Have been so for 45 years. Decent
workshop equipped with all the tools I need. I do it for pleasure, knowledge
and recreation.
Not, or very rarely, for monetary gain. In short I enjoy what I do and I
enjoy doing it. In essence my time is not money, it's enjoyment.
I was taught how to work wood using hand tools.
Reading posts on this ng, you guys have power tools for just about anything
and everything.
I'm not in the slightest envious because I enjoy what I do. And I'm getting
too damned old.
Do you ever use hand tools?

Nick,
I have a full shop of power tools.
But the more I have, the more I appreciate my hand tools.
I built a workbench with a solid maple top, beech legs and
stretchers/rails.. I wanted to build a euro bench, but settled on a more
english style bench (a compromise), I really didn't need the euro style,
I had just wanted it.

I cut dovetails by hands, I power joint, and plane to rough size, I hand
plane to finish, it removes the scallops. I prefer planing to sanding.
If it's bigger than my jointer handles I will joint the whole thing by hand.

I have a good set of hand planes, a router plane, some moulding planes.
I have some really nice quality hand saws. Some more than 100 years old,
some brand new but extremely high quality saws.

The more I use my hand tools, the more gratification I get. But don't
get me wrong. There are times it's all power for speed and utility.

My biggest frustration is on wood that likes to tearout. Both power and
hand.. I just bought a load of tiger maple, and even though it's my
biggest frustration (tearout), its the journey and the beauty of the
wood. So I continue to try and master the skills that will allow me to
work this difficult to tame wood.

A few things I really like about this ng:
1) few bad tempered rants.
2) Rob H's 'what is it'.
3) Good and well informed folk.
4) Very useful tips and hints.
5) General bonhomie.

I'll go and look for my old tin hat and hide beneath the parapet.

Good luck to all,
Nick.




--
Jeff

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 00:26:52 +0100, "Nick"
wrote:

Hello.
I've watched this ng for quite some while and enjoy it immensely.
Some of the US stuff is not too relevant to UK, but I get the drift.
I'm, I suppose, a recreational woodworker. Have been so for 45 years. Decent
workshop equipped with all the tools I need. I do it for pleasure, knowledge
and recreation.
Not, or very rarely, for monetary gain. In short I enjoy what I do and I
enjoy doing it. In essence my time is not money, it's enjoyment.
I was taught how to work wood using hand tools.
Reading posts on this ng, you guys have power tools for just about anything
and everything.
I'm not in the slightest envious because I enjoy what I do. And I'm getting
too damned old.
Do you ever use hand tools?

Sometimes, but Binford doesn't make any that are powerful
enough.Different strokes.

A few things I really like about this ng:
1) few bad tempered rants.
2) Rob H's 'what is it'.
3) Good and well informed folk.
4) Very useful tips and hints.
5) General bonhomie.

I'll go and look for my old tin hat and hide beneath the parapet.

On 4/28/2013 5:26 PM, Nick wrote:
Hello.
I've watched this ng for quite some while and enjoy it immensely.
Some of the US stuff is not too relevant to UK, but I get the drift.
I'm, I suppose, a recreational woodworker. Have been so for 45 years. Decent
workshop equipped with all the tools I need. I do it for pleasure, knowledge
and recreation.
Not, or very rarely, for monetary gain. In short I enjoy what I do and I
enjoy doing it. In essence my time is not money, it's enjoyment.
I was taught how to work wood using hand tools.
Reading posts on this ng, you guys have power tools for just about anything
and everything.
I'm not in the slightest envious because I enjoy what I do. And I'm getting
too damned old.
Do you ever use hand tools?

A few things I really like about this ng:
1) few bad tempered rants.
2) Rob H's 'what is it'.
3) Good and well informed folk.
4) Very useful tips and hints.
5) General bonhomie.

I'll go and look for my old tin hat and hide beneath the parapet.

Good luck to all,
Nick.



I like the *speed* of power tools unless I'm working on a small project.
I've built enough cabinets, bookcases, etc. that the *finished* product
is more important than the work on it.
On the other hand if I build a jewelry box or tool chest, the
fascination of putting one together is more important than the finished
product.
I guess the only tool I don't own is a parapet; does Lee Valley carry
them? ;-)

"Nick" wrote:

Do you ever use hand tools?
-------------------------------------
Not if I can help it.

The only exception being some sanding and/or scraping.

Welcome aboard.

Lew

Nick wrote:
..
Do you ever use hand tools?

Sure. I often use a hammer, bought it new in 1943.
..
Ditto a brace, same vintage (I mostly use it as a cordless screw driver but
occasionally make holes).

Ditto a jack plane, same vintage. Block and smooth planes too but newer,

Scrapers

Chisels

Saws but only dozukis. Well, sometimes a ryoba.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

I have a pretty well equipped shop with lots of stuff that can take a finger faster than you can say duke of Windsor. OTOH, I have a good assortment of chisels, a nifty marples trim saw and a couple of planes that refuse to be friends with me. I've been after my local Woodcraft dealer to have a couple of classes in neanderthal woodworking. My grandfather was a finish carpenter during the depression and I have his workbox and a few of his tools -- brace, bits, handsaw and a few odds and ends. I have profound respect for all who can turn a tree into something beautiful without electricity. I'm never going to get there, but I'm hoping to take a few steps down that path.

Larry


On Sunday, April 28, 2013 6:26:52 PM UTC-5, Nick wrote:
Hello.

I've watched this ng for quite some while and enjoy it immensely.

Some of the US stuff is not too relevant to UK, but I get the drift.

I'm, I suppose, a recreational woodworker. Have been so for 45 years. Decent

workshop equipped with all the tools I need. I do it for pleasure, knowledge

and recreation.

Not, or very rarely, for monetary gain. In short I enjoy what I do and I

enjoy doing it. In essence my time is not money, it's enjoyment.

I was taught how to work wood using hand tools.

Reading posts on this ng, you guys have power tools for just about anything

and everything.

I'm not in the slightest envious because I enjoy what I do. And I'm getting

too damned old.

Do you ever use hand tools?



A few things I really like about this ng:

1) few bad tempered rants.

2) Rob H's 'what is it'.

3) Good and well informed folk.

4) Very useful tips and hints.

5) General bonhomie.



I'll go and look for my old tin hat and hide beneath the parapet.



Good luck to all,

Nick.

Nick, good food for thought on your post.

In my opinion (hey... remember is worth what you paid for it!) there
are a lot of folks that are serious about woodworking, but don't have
the time to develop the skills needed to be "a neander" and go without
power.

I can't imagine spending a weekend face planing down a piece of 5
quarter rough sawn 1X8 on both faces to get it to the proper
thickness, then lining it and shooting it with the proper plane. In
building a coffee table or dining room table or any other larger piece
of furniture as a "weekend and a few nights only a week guy", it would
take a couple of months just to prep the wood!

Also, many here are professionals in the trades, or semi
professionals, and that means speed, accuracy and repeatability are
the key components when executing a project. For me, there is no joy
is boring a hole with a bit and brace. There isn't any satisfaction
from using a homemade miter box with a back saw. I don't use a
screwdriver to put on kitchen hardware, but use a small drill.

Also, tools and their designs are made to follow the current trends of
building and the available materials. With our super thin, chippy,
splintery veneered products, our poorly prepared solid wood choices,
and newer growth lumber that might be better suited as pallet wood,
power tools help make up for the deficiencies of the material.

Probably the biggest example of this trend in my mind is the
development of brad/trim guns. As a young hand 40 years ago, I was
taught to use a hammer and nails, and using a nail gun was frowned on
as a distinct lack of skill. You learned to drive nails without
hitting the wood and if the wood was hard and expensive you drilled
pilot holes for the nails.

Now, even the base boards, door trims, crown moldings, chair rail,
etc. are hard, brittle materials that crack easily. Some kind of
South American fast growing finger jointed hardwood is what you get in
paint grade and it splits like the dickens with a regular hammer and
nails as attachment devices. Most stain grade trims I see are no more
than the clear section of yellow pine which is also hard, brittle, and
sometimes painful to use. With a brad/trim gun, once you learn proper
placement you can nail away with little fear of breaking the trims.
For a contractor, using a nail gun anymore is almost self defense
because of the available materials we use.

Then add to the fact we are on about the second generation of
tradesmen on carpentry that simply can't drive a nail...

Robert

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:30:09 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
workbox and a few of his tools -- brace, bits, handsaw and a
few odds and ends. I have profound respect for all who can
turn a tree into something beautiful without electricity. I'm
never going to get there, but I'm hoping to take a few steps
down that path.

You need to think about your woodworking a little differently. A
hundred years from now, your relatives will be speaking to a computer
telling it what they want built. They will wonder how *you* built
stuff using sharp blades attached to electrically driven machines.

wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:30:09 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
workbox and a few of his tools -- brace, bits, handsaw and a
few odds and ends. I have profound respect for all who can
turn a tree into something beautiful without electricity. I'm
never going to get there, but I'm hoping to take a few steps
down that path.

You need to think about your woodworking a little differently. A
hundred years from now, your relatives will be speaking to a computer
telling it what they want built. They will wonder how *you* built
stuff using sharp blades attached to electrically driven machines.

Or they may be huddling in a cave hacking out furniture with an axe.

--
 GW Ross 

 An unemployed court jester is no 
 one's fool. 

On 4/30/2013 5:07 AM, G. Ross wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:30:09 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
workbox and a few of his tools -- brace, bits, handsaw and a
few odds and ends. I have profound respect for all who can
turn a tree into something beautiful without electricity. I'm
never going to get there, but I'm hoping to take a few steps
down that path.

You need to think about your woodworking a little differently. A
hundred years from now, your relatives will be speaking to a computer
telling it what they want built. They will wonder how *you* built
stuff using sharp blades attached to electrically driven machines.

Or they may be huddling in a cave hacking out furniture with an axe.



That's not far off from what I've been doing.

I've carved four half-hull models this year.

It has been interesting figuring out how, but I'm happy with the results
now.

Plane cedar boards to the desired thickness (machine).

Saw out the "lifts", waterline shapes (band saw).

Glue and clamp the lifts to make a plug. (hand)

Carve out the hull (18 inch hand saw as a whittling knife and block planes)

Sand, epoxy, prime, sand, sand, sand, sand, paint, paint, sand, sand,
sand, paint, sand, paint, sand.... repeat until finished.

I'll get some pictures up somewhere one of these days.


Richard

wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:30:09 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
workbox and a few of his tools -- brace, bits, handsaw and a
few odds and ends. I have profound respect for all who can
turn a tree into something beautiful without electricity. I'm
never going to get there, but I'm hoping to take a few steps
down that path.
You need to think about your woodworking a little differently. A
hundred years from now, your relatives will be speaking to a computer
telling it what they want built. They will wonder how *you* built
stuff using sharp blades attached to electrically driven machines.

It's worth mentioning how machines, in all of their speed,
omitted much ofthe "style"that had been a part of furniture.

Bill

Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 07:30:09 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
workbox and a few of his tools -- brace, bits, handsaw and a
few odds and ends. I have profound respect for all who can
turn a tree into something beautiful without electricity. I'm
never going to get there, but I'm hoping to take a few steps
down that path.
You need to think about your woodworking a little differently. A
hundred years from now, your relatives will be speaking to a computer
telling it what they want built. They will wonder how *you* built
stuff using sharp blades attached to electrically driven machines.

It's worth mentioning how machines, in all of their speed,
omitted much ofthe "style"that had been a part of furniture.


That's very true. And not only in furniture.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

dadiOH wrote:
Bill wrote:

It's worth mentioning how machines, in all of their speed,
omitted much ofthe "style"that had been a part of furniture.

That's very true. And not only in furniture.
I have no doubt that you are correct; what were you thinking of (besides
furniture)?

Computers? : )

On 4/28/2013 6:26 PM, Nick wrote:
Hello.
I've watched this ng for quite some while and enjoy it immensely.
Some of the US stuff is not too relevant to UK, but I get the drift.
I'm, I suppose, a recreational woodworker. Have been so for 45 years. Decent
workshop equipped with all the tools I need. I do it for pleasure, knowledge
and recreation.
Not, or very rarely, for monetary gain. In short I enjoy what I do and I
enjoy doing it. In essence my time is not money, it's enjoyment.
I was taught how to work wood using hand tools.
Reading posts on this ng, you guys have power tools for just about anything
and everything.
I'm not in the slightest envious because I enjoy what I do. And I'm getting
too damned old.
Do you ever use hand tools?

A few things I really like about this ng:
1) few bad tempered rants.
2) Rob H's 'what is it'.
3) Good and well informed folk.
4) Very useful tips and hints.
5) General bonhomie.

I'll go and look for my old tin hat and hide beneath the parapet.

Good luck to all,
Nick.




From my aspect, try selling your work on a continuous basis using hand
tools. Hand tools are fine if only building for the satisfaction of
building but you will never be competitive with machine built products.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 08:49:14 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/28/2013 6:26 PM, Nick wrote:
Hello.
I've watched this ng for quite some while and enjoy it immensely.
Some of the US stuff is not too relevant to UK, but I get the drift.
I'm, I suppose, a recreational woodworker. Have been so for 45 years. Decent
workshop equipped with all the tools I need. I do it for pleasure, knowledge
and recreation.
Not, or very rarely, for monetary gain. In short I enjoy what I do and I
enjoy doing it. In essence my time is not money, it's enjoyment.
I was taught how to work wood using hand tools.
Reading posts on this ng, you guys have power tools for just about anything
and everything.
I'm not in the slightest envious because I enjoy what I do. And I'm getting
too damned old.
Do you ever use hand tools?

A few things I really like about this ng:
1) few bad tempered rants.
2) Rob H's 'what is it'.
3) Good and well informed folk.
4) Very useful tips and hints.
5) General bonhomie.

I'll go and look for my old tin hat and hide beneath the parapet.

Good luck to all,
Nick.




From my aspect, try selling your work on a continuous basis using hand
tools. Hand tools are fine if only building for the satisfaction of
building but you will never be competitive with machine built products.

On the other hand remember whenTom Plamann tried to use CNC instead of
carving his ornamental stairs. I actually agree with you though,
it's hard for people now to appreciate quality. For me wood working
has always been a hobby as I could always make more money with my
master electricians license. Or this morning, I'm on disability, I
gave my girl friend a bad about making almost $2500 hauling the
garbage for 3 houses out to the county road with the backhoe
yesterday. Of course since it was investment income it may be gone
today. None the less we all have to do what we think is best and very
few people could find a niche to do hand tool work. Roy get's by with
a TV show not selling to customers.

Mike M