On 4/4/2013 11:38 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/4/2013 10:57 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Thursday, April 4, 2013 8:26:47 AM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:
Which leaves me with a quandary, because I don't have the time, the
space, the tools or the skill to build something quite as nice as
that. Should I just chuck it and take up knitting instead? Nah.

Doesn't have to be as nice as that. Don't compete with Leon, except
for maybe finishing a project within a time limit.

My post, despite a lack of emoticons, was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I'm
old enough to realize that no matter how good I might get at something,
there will always be someone ahead of me. I'm a beginner at woodworking,
but the same holds even for things that I'm allegedly pretty good at;
piano, for instance.

What's more, skill comes with a greater ability to recognize the skills
of others; I thus have an even better grasp of the gap (chasm) between
me and Keith Jarrett for instance. But I've already copped a particular
chord change from his rendition of "O Danny Boy", and I've gotten a lot
of good ideas here as well.

Despite your limited resources, what home application/project would
you possibly want/need, that this design feature is applicable for?
Build it with the resources you have. Doesn't matter that it
wouldn't be absolutely perfect. You think Leon's, or anyone's, first
project was perfect? He's already mentioned possibly tweaking this
project's design, so you learn by doing and improving on your
previous work.

I learn something new with every step, and wish I had known it before.
Then I discover a further improvement, and again wish I had learned it
earlier. And then ...

Maybe do a scale model, by hand, without major tools, etc. See what
there is (nuances?) to learn about making projects with curved
features. Leon notes he had to pay close attention to making the
curve feature. Most of my custom chairs have curved features. I
don't always get them exactly right, the first attempt (dry fit).
Sometimes, parts have to be remade to better/best fit.

I'm currently working on a set of bookcases, composed entirely of
straight lines. Suddenly increased family obligations have slowed the
work to a crawl, but I've finished two units out of four. I've found the
work to be good therapy, by the way, exactly because of the
problem-solving aspect of it. It occupies my mind for a while.

I in fact did build a small mock-up first, to practice making dadoes and
face frames and to test out some finishing methods. Here's a photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1493/lightbox/


Make a project that incorporates a curved feature(s), any project,
with the resources you have, and don't forget to show us some pics.

Pictures? Those I've got. (another hobby). Here are the first two units:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1493/lightbox/

The color rendition on this photo is a little off by the way. The inner
faces are not nearly as orange as they look here. More of a reddish brown.


And the "design":

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1493/lightbox/


Not bored yet? Here's a set chronicling how a novice like me works his
way through a project like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...th/8327630522/


Thanks for the encouragement. As I mentioned, I intend to get better at
this, whenever I can find the time.

Greg Guarino wrote:

Which leaves me with a quandary, because I don't have the time, the
space, the tools or the skill to build something quite as nice as
that. Should I just chuck it and take up knitting instead?

Nah. For one thing there'd still be people who kick my ass at that
skill, and some of them would be ninety year-old ladies. But more
importantly, I'm not (quite) dead yet; I can still learn a thing or
two. I plan instead to steal as many ideas as I possibly can from
guys like you, perhaps including an arch of my own. Now if I only had
a band saw.

Go get a bow saw. Traditional one, not the modern.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 4/4/2013 9:26 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Now if I only had a band saw.

If you had one, you only want a bigger one. DAMHIKT

AAMOF, I wish I had two, and a couple of more table saws, and a shop big
enough to put them in, but ...

ITMT, I took a look at your photos and you're doing great with what you
have. Keep dancing with who brung you, you're well on your way to be an
accomplished woodworker ... all the signs are there.

Paganini didn't learn to play his Les Paul in a day.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/4/2013 1:31 AM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:13:33 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
Wow ... that is magnificent. I especially liked the way you carried the curve of the top rails across the piece.

Yup. I'm sure that Ole' Leon could make a good living as a designer if
he put his mind to it. In any event, it's a design aspect that I'm
stealing and squirreling away for future use.

One of my favorite Leon pieces is a Texas Desk he made for a client a
few years back, he really needs to post some photos of it.

Hint, hint ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Apr 3, 10:19*pm, Leon wrote:
"Gramp's shop" wrote:
On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 9:58:06 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
This project has come to a close and adds to our collection of, too damn

big" furniture.

SNIP

Wow ... that is magnificent. *I especially liked the way you carried the
curve of the top rails across the piece.

Larry

Thank you. *All 5 of the rail pieces that make up hat curve were from he
same board and the grain matches from piece to piece. * I had to pay close
attention.

So educate me here. If I were to try something like that, I imagine
I'd draw a continuous curve as long as the whole unit, meaning,
including where the stiles and other gaps would be. Maybe I'd use a
bendable object like an electrician's snake. Then I'd mark off the
rails and the center arch where they would fall on the curve. Now if I
did that on actual wood I'd have some waste, but it could be done
first on paper instead. I further imagine that I'd mark off only two
of the rails, turning the template over for the other two to make them
identical mirror images. Is that anything like what you did?

On Friday, April 5, 2013 5:09:09 AM UTC-6, Amy Guarino wrote:
So educate me here. If I were to try something like that, I imagine I'd draw a continuous curve as long as the whole unit, meaning, including where the stiles and other gaps would be. Maybe I'd use a bendable object like an electrician's snake. Then I'd mark off the rails and the center arch where they would fall on the curve. Now if I did that on actual wood I'd have some waste, but it could be done first on paper instead. I further imagine that I'd mark off only two of the rails, turning the template over for the other two to make them identical mirror images. Is that anything like what you did?

That's a good point to question Leon about. One would think, right off, marking/making the arc is easy, but after thinking about it, a bit, there are likely some nuances, in the process, first thoughts would miss. I've erred that way, before.

I'd further suggest/guess, for a first time attempt, as would be in my case, cut the rails ~~1/4" longer than the finish products, do some rough dry fitting to make sure all is on par, before cutting the rails to final finish length. Unless one has further exacting help from SketchUp, or similar, to be more/most sure with those first cuts, a little extra length may be advisable.

Inspect your board well, initially, as best you can, to make sure there are no defects that may cause problems at the cut sites. I've erred in that department, before, as well.

Sonny

On 4/5/2013 6:09 AM, Amy Guarino wrote:

So educate me here. If I were to try something like that, I imagine
I'd draw a continuous curve as long as the whole unit, meaning,
including where the stiles and other gaps would be. Maybe I'd use a
bendable object like an electrician's snake. Then I'd mark off the
rails and the center arch where they would fall on the curve. Now if I
did that on actual wood I'd have some waste, but it could be done
first on paper instead. I further imagine that I'd mark off only two
of the rails, turning the template over for the other two to make them
identical mirror images. Is that anything like what you did?

Sketchup is your friend ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/4/2013 9:26 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/3/2013 10:58 AM, Leon wrote:
This project has come to a close and adds to our collection of, too damn
big" furniture.

Anyway I may add some accent lighting to the upper unit and I need to
address the wires under the desk top, I have plenty of support under the
desk top that I could hang the wiring, sub wolfer, and UPS.

I think I may eventually extend the top trim out another layer and put
LED ribbon lighting under it's edge and or add the same type lighting
along the bottom rail just above the monitor. That may be too close and
cause glare, maybe not.

So here is a shot of the desk from a distance just outside the office.
The desk and top are about 86" tall, and 96" wide. The desk top is 34"
deep. I am happy with all of the arcs, the top rails of each desk
drawer, the gradual one just under the desk top in front, it has another
3/4" rail, attached just behind it and there are 3 more pairs of rails
behind that. And I am especially happy with the ark created from the
door top rails that integrate with the cubby top face frame rail.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...3717/lightbox/

From inside the office straight into the desk top,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...3232/lightbox/

And a couple of close ups of the in/out boxes in the top. I used the
Incra iBox jig to cut assist with cutting the box joints for the boxes.
The whistling boxes are a 1/4" white oak.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...3816/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...6151/lightbox/

I like this piece a lot, especially the upper portion. The gentle curve
formed by the door rails that continues into the face frame arch is my
favorite feature.

Thank you for noticing! That arch was what inspired me to do the top
they way I did.


Which leaves me with a quandary, because I don't have the time, the
space, the tools or the skill to build something quite as nice as that.
Should I just chuck it and take up knitting instead?

You know, we all started off knowing nothing. I have been doing this
seriously as a hobby since 1979. I have been being paid for this type
work since 1997ish. Not until, wait for it, I started using Sketchup
did I really start to build this big stuff with more attention to
details and design.



Nah. For one thing there'd still be people who kick my ass at that
skill, and some of them would be ninety year-old ladies. But more
importantly, I'm not (quite) dead yet; I can still learn a thing or two.
I plan instead to steal as many ideas as I possibly can from guys like
you, perhaps including an arch of my own. Now if I only had a band saw.

Yeah!

On 4/5/2013 8:48 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/5/2013 6:09 AM, Amy Guarino wrote:

So educate me here. If I were to try something like that, I imagine
I'd draw a continuous curve as long as the whole unit, meaning,
including where the stiles and other gaps would be. Maybe I'd use a
bendable object like an electrician's snake. Then I'd mark off the
rails and the center arch where they would fall on the curve. Now if I
did that on actual wood I'd have some waste, but it could be done
first on paper instead. I further imagine that I'd mark off only two
of the rails, turning the template over for the other two to make them
identical mirror images. Is that anything like what you did?

Sketchup is your friend ...

Sketchup and I have barely nodded at each other as we pass in the
street. But let's assume we were better acquainted; the idea would be to
draw a continuous curve that spans the whole unit, including the gaps,
right? And if Leon did it that way, what sort of curve did he use? As
gentle as it is, it might not matter a great deal if it were an arc of a
circle or some other curve, but inquiring minds want to know.

Most importantly, suppose I were to take Sketchup to lunch a few times,
maybe to a ballgame, introduce the wives and kids, lend him some tools,
etc. I'd still have to transfer the curve from my good virtual buddy to
the stock. How does one do that? Smaller pieces might be printable, if
laser printers can be trusted, but what about the middle arch? Does one
repair to the nearest large-format print shop?

On 4/4/2013 9:57 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Thursday, April 4, 2013 8:26:47 AM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:
Which leaves me with a quandary, because I don't have the time, the space, the tools or the skill to build something quite as nice as that. Should I just chuck it and take up knitting instead? Nah.

Doesn't have to be as nice as that. Don't compete with Leon, except for maybe finishing a project within a time limit.

Despite your limited resources, what home application/project would you possibly want/need, that this design feature is applicable for? Build it with the resources you have. Doesn't matter that it wouldn't be absolutely perfect.


You think Leon's, or anyone's, first project was perfect?

Exactly!!!!! Don't even think that this one is perfect. As you get
better you still make mistakes but you learn how to hide them better. ;~)



He's already mentioned possibly tweaking this project's design, so you
learn by doing and improving on your previous work.

Maybe do a scale model, by hand, without major tools, etc. See what there is (nuances?) to learn about making projects with curved features.


Leon notes he had to pay close attention to making the curve feature.
Most of my custom chairs have curved features. I don't always get them
exactly right, the first attempt (dry fit). Sometimes, parts have to be
remade to better/best fit.


Actually the curve part was the easiest, the hard part was keeping the
parts in order. LOL. Seriously, the arced rails were easy, they were
cut to the top rails after the door parts were cut out and fitted.
Sketchup provided me with a 1:1 scale drawing template that I "glue
sticked" to the rectangle top rail.




Make a project that incorporates a curved feature(s), any project, with the resources you have, and don't forget to show us some pics.


Those curves could just as easily have been cut with a jig saw. I
smoothed the curve out with an oscillating spindle sander and that could
easily have been done with finish sander too.


Sonny

On 4/4/2013 10:38 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/4/2013 10:57 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Thursday, April 4, 2013 8:26:47 AM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:
Which leaves me with a quandary, because I don't have the time, the
space, the tools or the skill to build something quite as nice as
that. Should I just chuck it and take up knitting instead? Nah.

Doesn't have to be as nice as that. Don't compete with Leon, except
for maybe finishing a project within a time limit.

My post, despite a lack of emoticons, was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I'm
old enough to realize that no matter how good I might get at something,
there will always be someone ahead of me. I'm a beginner at woodworking,
but the same holds even for things that I'm allegedly pretty good at;
piano, for instance.

What's more, skill comes with a greater ability to recognize the skills
of others; I thus have an even better grasp of the gap (chasm) between
me and Keith Jarrett for instance. But I've already copped a particular
chord change from his rendition of "O Danny Boy", and I've gotten a lot
of good ideas here as well.

Despite your limited resources, what home application/project would
you possibly want/need, that this design feature is applicable for?
Build it with the resources you have. Doesn't matter that it
wouldn't be absolutely perfect. You think Leon's, or anyone's, first
project was perfect? He's already mentioned possibly tweaking this
project's design, so you learn by doing and improving on your
previous work.

I learn something new with every step, and wish I had known it before.
Then I discover a further improvement, and again wish I had learned it
earlier. And then ...

Maybe do a scale model, by hand, without major tools, etc. See what
there is (nuances?) to learn about making projects with curved
features. Leon notes he had to pay close attention to making the
curve feature. Most of my custom chairs have curved features. I
don't always get them exactly right, the first attempt (dry fit).
Sometimes, parts have to be remade to better/best fit.

I'm currently working on a set of bookcases, composed entirely of
straight lines. Suddenly increased family obligations have slowed the
work to a crawl, but I've finished two units out of four. I've found the
work to be good therapy, by the way, exactly because of the
problem-solving aspect of it. It occupies my mind for a while.

I in fact did build a small mock-up first, to practice making dadoes and
face frames and to test out some finishing methods. Here's a photo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1493/lightbox/


Make a project that incorporates a curved feature(s), any project,
with the resources you have, and don't forget to show us some pics.

Pictures? Those I've got. (another hobby). Here are the first two units:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1493/lightbox/

Nice book matching on those back panels!




And the "design":

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...1493/lightbox/


Now learn Sketchup, it will let you look at your drawings from every
point of view! Deeing 3D really helps you see if the joint is going to
work or if the design feature will still look good from a side view.


Not bored yet? Here's a set chronicling how a novice like me works his
way through a project like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...th/8327630522/


Thanks for the encouragement. As I mentioned, I intend to get better at
this, whenever I can find the time.

You are well on your way!

On 4/4/2013 2:43 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...3717/lightbox/

Oooooohhhhh. I especially love the cabinet doors.



Thank you!

On 4/5/2013 6:09 AM, Amy Guarino wrote:
On Apr 3, 10:19 pm, Leon wrote:
"Gramp's shop" wrote:
On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 9:58:06 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
This project has come to a close and adds to our collection of, too damn

big" furniture.

SNIP

Wow ... that is magnificent. I especially liked the way you carried the
curve of the top rails across the piece.

Larry

Thank you. All 5 of the rail pieces that make up hat curve were from he
same board and the grain matches from piece to piece. I had to pay close
attention.

So educate me here. If I were to try something like that, I imagine
I'd draw a continuous curve as long as the whole unit, meaning,
including where the stiles and other gaps would be.

Exactly! In Sketchup I drew the top unit and added an arc starting at
the bottom of the left door top rail and ended it at the bottom of the
right door top rail. Then in Sketchup I erased the parts of the ark
that were not actually touching cabinet parts. I then built the doors
and top center rail with no arc. I printed scale drawings of the arc's,
to glue to each piece, to guide me while cutting the arc's.





Maybe I'd use a
bendable object like an electrician's snake. Then I'd mark off the
rails and the center arch where they would fall on the curve. Now if I
did that on actual wood I'd have some waste, but it could be done
first on paper instead. I further imagine that I'd mark off only two
of the rails, turning the template over for the other two to make them
identical mirror images. Is that anything like what you did?

See above. ;~)

On 4/5/2013 6:41 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Friday, April 5, 2013 5:09:09 AM UTC-6, Amy Guarino wrote:
So educate me here. If I were to try something like that, I imagine I'd draw a continuous curve as long as the whole unit, meaning, including where the stiles and other gaps would be. Maybe I'd use a bendable object like an electrician's snake. Then I'd mark off the rails and the center arch where they would fall on the curve. Now if I did that on actual wood I'd have some waste, but it could be done first on paper instead. I further imagine that I'd mark off only two of the rails, turning the template over for the other two to make them identical mirror images. Is that anything like what you did?

That's a good point to question Leon about. One would think, right off, marking/making the arc is easy, but after thinking about it, a bit, there are likely some nuances, in the process, first thoughts would miss. I've erred that way, before.

I'd further suggest/guess, for a first time attempt, as would be in my case, cut the rails ~~1/4" longer than the finish products, do some rough dry fitting to make sure all is on par, before cutting the rails to final finish length. Unless one has further exacting help from SketchUp, or similar, to be more/most sure with those first cuts, a little extra length may be advisable.

All rails top and bottom were cut as if they were going to be
rectangular. so all the tenons and groves for the panels were cut
precisely to the finished size to begin with. Full scale paper
templates were then glued to the top rails and cut out on the BS. I
then smoothed out those arcs and then cut the curved groove for the
panel with a slot cutter on my router table. Really a very simple process.



Inspect your board well, initially, as best you can, to make sure there are no defects that may cause problems at the cut sites. I've erred in that department, before, as well.

And that is exactly where I had to pay attention too. I wanted all the
rail pieces to flow so they all needed to be used in the same order that
they were cut from the same board.


Sonny

On 4/4/2013 1:31 AM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:13:33 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
Wow ... that is magnificent. I especially liked the way you carried the curve of the top rails across the piece.

Yup. I'm sure that Ole' Leon could make a good living as a designer if
he put his mind to it. In any event, it's a design aspect that I'm
stealing and squirreling away for future use.


I love people stealing my designs, No better complement!

Greg Guarino wrote in news:kjmk8f$lrt$1@dont-
email.me:

*snip*


Most importantly, suppose I were to take Sketchup to lunch a few times,
maybe to a ballgame, introduce the wives and kids, lend him some tools,
etc. I'd still have to transfer the curve from my good virtual buddy to
the stock. How does one do that? Smaller pieces might be printable, if
laser printers can be trusted, but what about the middle arch? Does one
repair to the nearest large-format print shop?

Norm once talked about the "squares" method. Say your drawing is on a
1/4" square grid and you need to enlarge it 4 times. Draw a 1" square grid
and copy each mark from the drawing to the larger grid.

As for getting Sketchup to do it, you may have to draw the grid yourself.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 4/4/2013 12:37 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/4/2013 1:31 AM, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:13:33 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
Wow ... that is magnificent. I especially liked the way you carried
the curve of the top rails across the piece.

Yup. I'm sure that Ole' Leon could make a good living as a designer if
he put his mind to it. In any event, it's a design aspect that I'm
stealing and squirreling away for future use.

One of my favorite Leon pieces is a Texas Desk he made for a client a
few years back, he really needs to post some photos of it.

Hint, hint ...


Hint taken. ;~)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...in/photostream

On 4/4/2013 10:36 AM, wrote:
On Apr 3, 5:03 pm, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

All good Ideas! I thought of putting the tool box that I was building
when I cut half my thumb off. ;~)

I'd like that! My kind of humor....

Humor and the truth! ;~)





Anyway, Leon you do some really great work. That desk is no
exception, and I am just as impressed with the design as the
workmanship.

Thank you again Robert!



Very nicely done. I can't wait to see it in person.

Hey only 8 months to go. LOL Of course you are always welcome if you
are in the area.



Robert

On Friday, April 5, 2013 8:20:30 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 4/4/2013 12:37 PM, Swingman wrote: One of my favorite Leon pieces is a Texas Desk he made for a client a few years back, he really needs to post some photos of it. Hint, hint ...

Hint taken. ;~) http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...in/photostream

Yep, that work is pretty darn (tootin) good, too....
...... for a Texas dude!

Sonny

On 4/5/2013 9:48 AM, Leon wrote:
Sketchup provided me with a 1:1 scale drawing template that I "glue
sticked" to the rectangle top rail.

And the center arch? Too big for a home printer surely, unless you
somehow printed it on several sheets with registration marks. Is that
how you did it?

On 4/5/2013 8:43 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 8:48 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/5/2013 6:09 AM, Amy Guarino wrote:

So educate me here. If I were to try something like that, I imagine
I'd draw a continuous curve as long as the whole unit, meaning,
including where the stiles and other gaps would be. Maybe I'd use a
bendable object like an electrician's snake. Then I'd mark off the
rails and the center arch where they would fall on the curve. Now if I
did that on actual wood I'd have some waste, but it could be done
first on paper instead. I further imagine that I'd mark off only two
of the rails, turning the template over for the other two to make them
identical mirror images. Is that anything like what you did?

Sketchup is your friend ...

Sketchup and I have barely nodded at each other as we pass in the
street. But let's assume we were better acquainted; the idea would be to
draw a continuous curve that spans the whole unit, including the gaps,
right?

Exactly


And if Leon did it that way, what sort of curve did he use? As
gentle as it is, it might not matter a great deal if it were an arc of a
circle or some other curve, but inquiring minds want to know.

It was an arc, a partial circle. After drawing the doors as if there
would be no arc then I added the continuous arc starting on either side
and extending to the opposite side. The line/ark was then pulled up to
a desired amount. All very easily done with Sketchup.





Most importantly, suppose I were to take Sketchup to lunch a few times,
maybe to a ballgame, introduce the wives and kids, lend him some tools,
etc. I'd still have to transfer the curve from my good virtual buddy to
the stock. How does one do that? Smaller pieces might be printable, if
laser printers can be trusted, but what about the middle arch? Does one
repair to the nearest large-format print shop?

Print to scale, and there is a trick to that so ask one of us how to do
that. Simple to do when you know what has to be done. For larger
pieces like the center arc you simply continue to print to scale but
tape the pages together where the lines start and stop.

On 4/5/2013 8:40 AM, Leon wrote:

You know, we all started off knowing nothing. I have been doing this
seriously as a hobby since 1979. I have been being paid for this type
work since 1997ish. Not until, wait for it, I started using Sketchup
did I really start to build this big stuff with more attention to
details and design.

A-FARKING-MEN!

You can talk yourself blue in the face, but the average bear will never
quite comprehend just how much the ability to use that one free program
can elevate almost everything you do as craftsman to a new level.

And as a contractor ...

I have been on the phone all week talking to tradesman and rounding up
bids on a two bath remodel 400 miles away.

Thanks to Sketchup, and my modicum of proficiency with the program, the
ability to bring those two bathrooms with me wherever I go, desktop,
laptop, tablet, or cellphone, and to transmit clear, precise drawings,
in great detail, for bids/discussion, on demand and at the touch of a
button/screen, will have played a big part in doing the project, from
demo to paint, less expensively, more professionally, and in a timely
manner ... all from a great distance.

If you're listening in and haven't already done so, do yourself a favor
and learn it ... it will do as much for you as the most expensive tool
in your shop, and at no cost but the time to learn it.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/5/2013 9:30 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 9:48 AM, Leon wrote:
Sketchup provided me with a 1:1 scale drawing template that I "glue
sticked" to the rectangle top rail.

And the center arch? Too big for a home printer surely, unless you
somehow printed it on several sheets with registration marks. Is that
how you did it?


Yes! But no registration marks, you really don't need them. You can
just as easily use actual lines in the printed drawings as registration
start/stop points.

There is a series of steps to printing accurate to scale drawings with
the free version of Sketchup. Not something that I would have
discovered with out have seen a tutorial video. I would be happy to
explain the process. Once done a couple of times the steps make sense
and are easy to remember.

On 4/5/2013 9:28 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Friday, April 5, 2013 8:20:30 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
On 4/4/2013 12:37 PM, Swingman wrote: One of my favorite Leon pieces is a Texas Desk he made for a client a few years back, he really needs to post some photos of it. Hint, hint ...

Hint taken. ;~) http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...in/photostream

Yep, that work is pretty darn (tootin) good, too....
..... for a Texas dude!

Sonny




Thank you.

Amy Guarino wrote:

So educate me here. If I were to try something like that, I imagine
I'd draw a continuous curve as long as the whole unit, meaning,
including where the stiles and other gaps would be. Maybe I'd use a
bendable object like an electrician's snake. Then I'd mark off the
rails and the center arch where they would fall on the curve. Now if I
did that on actual wood I'd have some waste, but it could be done
first on paper instead. I further imagine that I'd mark off only two
of the rails, turning the template over for the other two to make them
identical mirror images. Is that anything like what you did?

That's sort of what I would (do) do. The first thing I would do is decide
whether I want the doors to be conventional (as Leon did) or if I wanted the
door stiles to butt into the rails (which would give one continuous curve,
uninterrupted by the stiles. In the latter case, the tops of the stiles
also have to conform to the curve; harder but not insurmountable.

The second thing to do is determine the length of the board. If
conventional, one needs a board equal in length to the inside width of the
cabinet less the combined width of the stiles. Plus a fudge factor. If
non-conventional, the board needs to be the length of the inside width of
the cabinet. Plus a fudge factor.

The third thing is to make a template; plywood, hardboard, MDF are all
possibilities. I like 3/8" ply. To strike a fair curve on it, I generally
use a batten (thin piece of wood, maybe 1/8" x 3/4" x longer than the curve
will be) or a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe. Mark the batten/pipe at the center
and at each end where the curve ends will be, drive a couple of nails into
the template material where the ends of the curve will be, align the
batten/pipe at the ends and bend it from the center upwards against the
nails; when you have the curve you want, drive another nail into the
template material to hold it in place and draw the curve. If you are using
pipe, be sure to keep the pencil vertical. Cut out the template with band
or saber saw, clean up with plane and/or sanding.

When laying out/cutting the template, be sure to keep at least one square
edge so that it can be properly layed out on the finish board. If you layed
out the curve of the template relative to the edge that will remain straight
you can always use that to reference the template to the finish board; still
nice to have square edges though and they are absolutely necessary if the
finish board is to be curved at top and bottom and if one screws up and cuts
the curves before cutting the finish board into its various lengths. BTDT.

To cut the curve into the finish board, draw the curve from the template
onto it, cut out with band/saber saw leaving the line, tape template to
finish board and cut to template with router and pattern bit.

You asked about making the template half length and flopping it. I've done
it both ways but prefer making a full length one. IME, flopping it can
induce errors - especially at the center - if the alignment is off a bit.
If it should wind up a bit less than symmetrical side to side, that isn't a
catastrophe; unless it is gross, it won't affect joining and will never be
noticed.

One other thing for your consideration is this: if the board that is going
to wind up as the top rails of the doors is wide enough, one could cut a
piece off the top of it to use as the top rail of the face frame. Also
depends on the look one wants and the grain pattern of the other pieces of
the face frame.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Swingman wrote:
On 4/4/2013 9:26 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Now if I only had a band saw.

If you had one, you only want a bigger one. DAMHIKT

AAMOF, I wish I had two,

YES! One with a narrow blade for curves, one with a nice resaw blade.

Why is it the blade that is currently on the saw isn't the one you need at
the moment?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 4/5/2013 9:53 AM, Leon wrote:

Nice book matching on those back panels!

Although am (vicariously) familiar with the concept, I can assure you
that it was accidental in this instance. Plus they won't actually be
seen the way I have shown the units in the photo; These two units will
be on either end of the completed project, separated by two wider shelf
units and a television.

Thanks for the encouragement. As I have mentioned before, I fully intend
to make better mistakes as I go along.

On 4/5/2013 10:25 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 9:53 AM, Leon wrote:

Nice book matching on those back panels!

Although am (vicariously) familiar with the concept, I can assure you
that it was accidental in this instance. Plus they won't actually be
seen the way I have shown the units in the photo; These two units will
be on either end of the completed project, separated by two wider shelf
units and a television.

Thanks for the encouragement. As I have mentioned before, I fully intend
to make better mistakes as I go along.


Unintentional or not, you are aware of it now. About 10 months ago I
built 3 piece wall unit/book case that covers a 10' wall. My customer
was going to fill it completely with books and the look of the back
panels would not show. But I was able to make the backs look uniform
and she was all the more impressed. Little things like this add up.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...7630857421932/

On 4/5/2013 9:59 AM, dadiOH wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 4/4/2013 9:26 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Now if I only had a band saw.

If you had one, you only want a bigger one. DAMHIKT

AAMOF, I wish I had two,

YES! One with a narrow blade for curves, one with a nice resaw blade.

Why is it the blade that is currently on the saw isn't the one you need at
the moment?



FWIW and IMHO and other stuff like that, I have learned that the blades
on my Laguna switch out quickly including resetting the guides going
from a 1/2" to 1-1/4" blade.

Basically I have found that with this saw that a 1/2" blade will do a
pretty good job of resawing too. With my resaw blade however, the
Laguna Resaw King there is less waste. With that blade resawing 4/4 S4S
oak I was able to get 2 pieces that could be sanded down to 1/4" and the
waste was approximately 1/16" thick, veneer stock. ;~)

So I guess with money being no object a couple of these saws would be
nice. LOL

On 4/5/2013 10:36 AM, Leon wrote:

It was an arc, a partial circle.

Now I'm having a vision of Norm doing this on a circle jig with a 10'
arm. "But you can do it at home with a pocketknife..."

On 4/5/2013 12:21 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 10:36 AM, Leon wrote:

It was an arc, a partial circle.

Now I'm having a vision of Norm doing this on a circle jig with a 10'
arm. "But you can do it at home with a pocketknife..."


I just dimensioned that arc for the first time on the drawing.

The radius of the arc is 396 15/16"

You are going to need a 33' arm ;~)

On 4/5/2013 12:23 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/5/2013 12:21 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 10:36 AM, Leon wrote:

It was an arc, a partial circle.

Now I'm having a vision of Norm doing this on a circle jig with a 10'
arm. "But you can do it at home with a pocketknife..."


I just dimensioned that arc for the first time on the drawing.

The radius of the arc is 396 15/16"

You are going to need a 33' arm ;~)

i find a more graceful curve on long runs like this is a catenary rather
than part of a circle. that not withstanding, great job.

On 4/5/2013 2:43 PM, chaniarts wrote:
On 4/5/2013 12:23 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/5/2013 12:21 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 10:36 AM, Leon wrote:

It was an arc, a partial circle.

Now I'm having a vision of Norm doing this on a circle jig with a 10'
arm. "But you can do it at home with a pocketknife..."


I just dimensioned that arc for the first time on the drawing.

The radius of the arc is 396 15/16"

You are going to need a 33' arm ;~)

i find a more graceful curve on long runs like this is a catenary rather
than part of a circle. that not withstanding, great job.


Thank you

I think by definition the weight of the curve would come into play
however perhaps that would reverse the curve, lower in the center and
higher on the sides. I tried several variations including parts of an
ellipse and this seemed to look the best in this situation. Actually
looking at an angle the curve appears more elliptical.

On 4/5/2013 12:57 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/5/2013 2:43 PM, chaniarts wrote:
On 4/5/2013 12:23 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/5/2013 12:21 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 10:36 AM, Leon wrote:

It was an arc, a partial circle.

Now I'm having a vision of Norm doing this on a circle jig with a 10'
arm. "But you can do it at home with a pocketknife..."


I just dimensioned that arc for the first time on the drawing.

The radius of the arc is 396 15/16"

You are going to need a 33' arm ;~)

i find a more graceful curve on long runs like this is a catenary rather
than part of a circle. that not withstanding, great job.


Thank you

I think by definition the weight of the curve would come into play
however perhaps that would reverse the curve, lower in the center and
higher on the sides. I tried several variations including parts of an
ellipse and this seemed to look the best in this situation. Actually
looking at an angle the curve appears more elliptical.

i meant an upside down catenary. that would put the ends just a bit
higher than circle ends, with a changing (and lessening) slope in
between the middle and the ends.

On 4/5/2013 10:54 AM, dadiOH wrote:

Cut out the template with band
or saber saw, clean up with plane and/or sanding.

What sort of plane does one use to "clean up" the concave side of a
piece of stock? In case it's not clear, I don't mean this in a snarky
way; I'm not knowledgeable enough for that yet.

I mean, I'm guessing such special-purpose planes exist, but is there
something I'm missing here? Could such a thing be reasonably done with a
standard block plane?

On 4/5/2013 3:11 PM, chaniarts wrote:
On 4/5/2013 12:57 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/5/2013 2:43 PM, chaniarts wrote:
On 4/5/2013 12:23 PM, Leon wrote:
On 4/5/2013 12:21 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 10:36 AM, Leon wrote:

It was an arc, a partial circle.

Now I'm having a vision of Norm doing this on a circle jig with a 10'
arm. "But you can do it at home with a pocketknife..."


I just dimensioned that arc for the first time on the drawing.

The radius of the arc is 396 15/16"

You are going to need a 33' arm ;~)

i find a more graceful curve on long runs like this is a catenary rather
than part of a circle. that not withstanding, great job.


Thank you

I think by definition the weight of the curve would come into play
however perhaps that would reverse the curve, lower in the center and
higher on the sides. I tried several variations including parts of an
ellipse and this seemed to look the best in this situation. Actually
looking at an angle the curve appears more elliptical.

i meant an upside down catenary. that would put the ends just a bit
higher than circle ends, with a changing (and lessening) slope in
between the middle and the ends.


Yeah, I see, in the drafting world I would call that more of an ellipse,
but I understand now what you are saying now.

Greg Guarino writes:
On 4/5/2013 10:54 AM, dadiOH wrote:

Cut out the template with band
or saber saw, clean up with plane and/or sanding.

What sort of plane does one use to "clean up" the concave side of a
piece of stock? In case it's not clear, I don't mean this in a snarky
way; I'm not knowledgeable enough for that yet.

Stanley #20 or Stanley #113 or record/kunz versions of same.

http://www.oldtooluser.com/TypeStudy...pTypestudy.htm
http://www.oldtooluser.com/TypeStudy...pTypestudy.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Kunz-12-113-11.../dp/B000MGVWF4

scott

On 4/5/2013 3:14 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 10:54 AM, dadiOH wrote:

Cut out the template with band
or saber saw, clean up with plane and/or sanding.

What sort of plane does one use to "clean up" the concave side of a
piece of stock? In case it's not clear, I don't mean this in a snarky
way; I'm not knowledgeable enough for that yet.

I mean, I'm guessing such special-purpose planes exist, but is there
something I'm missing here? Could such a thing be reasonably done with a
standard block plane?


That would be called a compass plane. The shoe will flex concave or convex.

Fine Woodworking #227 has a nice article on them.

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 10:54 AM, dadiOH wrote:

Cut out the template with band
or saber saw, clean up with plane and/or sanding.

What sort of plane does one use to "clean up" the concave side of a
piece of stock? In case it's not clear, I don't mean this in a snarky
way; I'm not knowledgeable enough for that yet.

I mean, I'm guessing such special-purpose planes exist, but is there
something I'm missing here? Could such a thing be reasonably done
with a standard block plane?

How well a block plane would work depends upon how much curve there is in
the wood and how the plane is held relative to the work; the closer it is
held at 90 degres to the work the less contact of the sole and the more it
will clean up.

A round or curved rasp works too. Ditto scrapers.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net