I'm affixing the face frame for the buffet to the leg/side assembly. The legs are 1 1/2 hard maple. The face frame is 3/4 hard maple, in which I drilled 3/8 deep 1/2 inch hole to accommodate the screw and a plug. Drilled a pilot hole to depth.

I used 1 1/2 inch number 8 McFeeley coarse thread square drive screws. Four of the six screws snapped after I removed the clamps.

My guess is that I had too much torque on the driver. I'm going to redrill and use number 10 screws.

Any other thoughts?

Larry

On 2/15/2013 4:47 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
I'm affixing the face frame for the buffet to the leg/side assembly. The legs are 1 1/2 hard maple. The face frame is 3/4 hard maple, in which I drilled 3/8 deep 1/2 inch hole to accommodate the screw and a plug. Drilled a pilot hole to depth.

I used 1 1/2 inch number 8 McFeeley coarse thread square drive screws. Four of the six screws snapped after I removed the clamps.

My guess is that I had too much torque on the driver. I'm going to redrill and use number 10 screws.

Any other thoughts?

Larry



I am guessing that they may have snapped during insertion. I have had
screws snap like this and give not any indication other than a faint
tick sound, similar to how wood will often give that tick sound when
being stressed. Or you got a really bad batch of screws.

If you were using an impact driver this can happen more easily, if
driven with a clutched drill the screw should not have broken.

Th pilot holes should be at least the diameter of the root of the screw.

Regardless, a broken screw sucks. Four broken screws is a quad suck.

On 2/15/2013 5:47 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
I'm affixing the face frame for the buffet to the leg/side assembly. The legs are 1 1/2 hard maple. The face frame is 3/4 hard maple, in which I drilled 3/8 deep 1/2 inch hole to accommodate the screw and a plug. Drilled a pilot hole to depth.

I used 1 1/2 inch number 8 McFeeley coarse thread square drive screws. Four of the six screws snapped after I removed the clamps.

My guess is that I had too much torque on the driver. I'm going to redrill and use number 10 screws.

Any other thoughts?
f
Larry

Your problem may be coarse thread.
Did you wax the screws? I always was using a candle in hardwoods.
Did you drill the pilot the same size as the shank, in maple this is a
must, most other hard woods too, not softwoods.

--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote:

Your problem may be coarse thread.

You may be correct ... I use only fine threads in hardwood if I have a
choice.

--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)

woodchucker wrote:

Your problem may be coarse thread.
-------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

You may be correct ... I use only fine threads in hardwood if I have
a
choice.
-----------------------------------------------
I've never had a problem using coarse thread sheet metal
self tapping screws in maple and white oak; however,
use a pilot drill that is 75% of the thread OD.

Lew

The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of the broken screws and a sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off -- like philips head -- when the screw is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.
3. Pilot hole should be larger diameter than I chose.
4. There was too much torque on the Makita driver. My driver does not have adjustable torque, but the drill does.

So, I took some scrap and used the same screw, drilled a larger pilot hole, lubed the screw with dish soap and drove it with drill at a lower torque setting. Worked fine, problem solved.

Larry



On Friday, February 15, 2013 4:47:40 PM UTC-6, Gramp's shop wrote:
I'm affixing the face frame for the buffet to the leg/side assembly. The legs are 1 1/2 hard maple. The face frame is 3/4 hard maple, in which I drilled 3/8 deep 1/2 inch hole to accommodate the screw and a plug. Drilled a pilot hole to depth.



I used 1 1/2 inch number 8 McFeeley coarse thread square drive screws. Four of the six screws snapped after I removed the clamps.



My guess is that I had too much torque on the driver. I'm going to redrill and use number 10 screws.



Any other thoughts?



Larry

"Gramp's shop" wrote in news:effd5331-4ba2-44a6-9a68-
:

The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of the broken screws and a
sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off -- like philips head -- when the screw
is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.

Wax only, never soap. Soap will absorb water from ambient humidity, which promotes
corrosion of the screw.

On 2/16/2013 11:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Gramp's shop" wrote in news:effd5331-4ba2-44a6-9a68-
:

The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of the broken screws and a
sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off -- like philips head -- when the screw
is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.

Wax only, never soap. Soap will absorb water from ambient humidity, which promotes
corrosion of the screw.



Years ago I read a tip somewhere about using beeswax for driving screws.
I have in the shop a small jar (think it was creamed herring which was
good and the current contents are equally good but in a much different way)

Pick up the cheapest wax toilet seal you find at Menard's or wherever
and carefully melt it down - I did mine a little at a time in a Pyrex
measuring cup in the microwave. I think the original tip was to use a
double boiler.

The full jar will last you a couple of lifetimes and the consistency is
just about perfect. Unscrew the cap, poke the screw into the wax and
drive it home. No flakes of wax like with canning wax and if you find
you get too many holes in the surface (I did... ONCE) just put it back
and heat it up and it's back like "new."

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 2/16/2013 11:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Gramp's shop" wrote in news:effd5331-4ba2-44a6-9a68-
:

The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of the broken screws and a
sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off -- like
philips head -- when the screw
is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.

Wax only, never soap. Soap will absorb water from ambient humidity, which promotes
corrosion of the screw.



Years ago I read a tip somewhere about using beeswax for driving screws.
I have in the shop a small jar (think it was creamed herring which was
good and the current contents are equally good but in a much different way)

Pick up the cheapest wax toilet seal you find at Menard's or wherever and
carefully melt it down - I did mine a little at a time in a Pyrex
measuring cup in the microwave. I think the original tip was to use a double boiler.

The full jar will last you a couple of lifetimes and the consistency is
just about perfect. Unscrew the cap, poke the screw into the wax and
drive it home. No flakes of wax like with canning wax and if you find
you get too many holes in the surface (I did... ONCE) just put it back
and heat it up and it's back like "new."

Just about any thing will work, I prefer a sealable can of what ever
furniture wax I have in the garage. I already have it and it can be closed
up, not terribly expensive. I have installed more wax rings than I care to
admit, while they make an excellent screw lube I find them way too sticky
for my liking.

Doug Miller wrote:
"Gramp's shop" wrote in news:effd5331-4ba2-44a6-9a68-
:

The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of the broken screws and a
sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off -- like
philips head -- when the screw
is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.

Wax only, never soap. Soap will absorb water from ambient humidity, which promotes
corrosion of the screw.

Not to mention the water that is in the soap to begin with..

On 2/16/2013 9:02 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of the broken screws and a sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off -- like philips head -- when the screw is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.
3. Pilot hole should be larger diameter than I chose.
4. There was too much torque on the Makita driver. My driver does not have adjustable torque, but the drill does.

So, I took some scrap and used the same screw, drilled a larger pilot hole, lubed the screw with dish soap and drove it with drill at a lower torque setting. Worked fine, problem solved.

Larry



On Friday, February 15, 2013 4:47:40 PM UTC-6, Gramp's shop wrote:
I'm affixing the face frame for the buffet to the leg/side assembly. The legs are 1 1/2 hard maple. The face frame is 3/4 hard maple, in which I drilled 3/8 deep 1/2 inch hole to accommodate the screw and a plug. Drilled a pilot hole to depth.



I used 1 1/2 inch number 8 McFeeley coarse thread square drive screws. Four of the six screws snapped after I removed the clamps.



My guess is that I had too much torque on the driver. I'm going to redrill and use number 10 screws.



Any other thoughts?



Larry

Don't use dish Soap Larry,
YOu want a dry soap. The wet soap may cause binding.
Get a candle.. simple. If you don't like rubbing the candle on the sharp
threads, drill a small hole in the candle... then pull it out on an
angle, that should be enough wax.



--
Jeff

Unquestionably Confused wrote in
:

On 2/16/2013 11:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Gramp's shop" wrote in
news:effd5331-4ba2-44a6-9a68- :

The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of
the broken screws and a
sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what
they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off --
like philips head -- when the screw
is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.

Wax only, never soap. Soap will absorb water from ambient
humidity, which promotes corrosion of the screw.

Pick up the cheapest wax toilet seal you find at Menard's or
wherever and carefully melt it down - I did mine a little at a
time in a Pyrex measuring cup in the microwave. I think the
original tip was to use a double boiler.

You know, it's a whole lot easier to just buy a can of Johnson's Paste Wax. :-)

All's well that ends well. Drilled larger pilot holes, used lower torque on screws lubed with Johnson's paste wax.

Thank you, friends, for your good counsel.

Larry

On 2/17/2013 11:57 AM, Doug Miller wrote:


You know, it's a whole lot easier to just buy a can of Johnson's Paste Wax. :-)

LOL! Yeah, I know but...

It's also easier to buy furniture, hire in somebody to do our
remodeling, build our decks, etc. but it's what WE dog

Besides, I believe I got my wax ring for $1 at a garage sale. It was
even newg

On 2/17/13 9:07 AM, Leon wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
"Gramp's shop" wrote in news:effd5331-4ba2-44a6-9a68-
:

The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of the broken screws and a
sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off -- like
philips head -- when the screw
is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.

Wax only, never soap. Soap will absorb water from ambient humidity, which promotes
corrosion of the screw.

Not to mention the water that is in the soap to begin with..


And don't even think about putting a screw into oak. It'll ruin your
life.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/17/13 11:57 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Unquestionably Confused wrote in
:

On 2/16/2013 11:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
"Gramp's shop" wrote in
news:effd5331-4ba2-44a6-9a68- :

The woodworkers show was in town today and I brought one of
the broken screws and a
sample to get some opinions from the graybeards. Here's what
they had to say:

1. Square drive screws don't allow the driver to slip off --
like philips head -- when the screw
is tight leading to breakage if I overtighten.
2. Screw should be lubed -- soap or wax.

Wax only, never soap. Soap will absorb water from ambient
humidity, which promotes corrosion of the screw.

Pick up the cheapest wax toilet seal you find at Menard's or
wherever and carefully melt it down - I did mine a little at a
time in a Pyrex measuring cup in the microwave. I think the
original tip was to use a double boiler.

You know, it's a whole lot easier to just buy a can of Johnson's Paste Wax. :-)


Canning wax, those small blocks of paraffin sold in grocery stores, are
super cheap. You can break them up and keep little blocks in all your
tool boxes or wherever is convenient. They have no carriers, like many
other spray or canned waxes... just 100% inert paraffin. It's great for
screws, miter slots/rails, making jigs slippery, etc.

I don't know how it affects a wood finish or stain, but I do know it
doesn't soak into the grain like a paste might.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:


And don't even think about putting a screw into oak. It'll ruin your
life.


Yeah - the damned oak rust will encrust the screw and you'll never get it
out...

--

-Mike-

On 2/17/13 2:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


And don't even think about putting a screw into oak. It'll ruin your
life.


Yeah - the damned oak rust will encrust the screw and you'll never get it
out...


Or it might esplode!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote:

And don't even think about putting a screw into oak. It'll ruin
your life.
--------------------------------------------------
Ever hear of 316L S/S?

Lew

On 2/17/13 3:59 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote:

And don't even think about putting a screw into oak. It'll ruin
your life.
--------------------------------------------------
Ever hear of 316L S/S?

Lew


It's oak rust, Lew. It'll eat through kryptonite. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote:
It's oak rust, Lew. It'll eat through kryptonite. :-)
----------------------------------------------
That's 316L S/S, NOT 304 (AKA: 18-8) which is
sometimes good for pots and pans.

Try it, you'll like it.

Lew

316L is low carbon and 316 is steel that takes hot salt water
and won't rust. It is the best.

Another thing is epoxy coated screws. They are tough and coated.

Martin

On 2/17/2013 7:38 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote:
It's oak rust, Lew. It'll eat through kryptonite. :-)
----------------------------------------------
That's 316L S/S, NOT 304 (AKA: 18-8) which is
sometimes good for pots and pans.

Try it, you'll like it.

Lew

Martin Eastburn wrote in news:rChUs.159359
:

316L is low carbon and 316 is steel that takes hot salt water
and won't rust. It is the best.

Another thing is epoxy coated screws. They are tough and coated.

Martin


The real solution to oak rust is not to let oak rust. Drill out the area
and glue a dowel in its place. You can either extend the dowel with glue
out to be the fastener, or screw through the dowel.

Dominos would probably work as well, but be sure you liberally coat the
tool with that non-stick or whatever you guys were talking about.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"-MIKE-" wrote:

It's oak rust, Lew. It'll eat through kryptonite. :-)
----------------------------------------------
"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

That's 316L S/S, NOT 304 (AKA: 18-8) which is
sometimes good for pots and pans.

Try it, you'll like it.
----------------------------------------
These work for me, especially in white oak.

http://tinyurl.com/aavkjna

Lew