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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here
can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. |
#2
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Tough to do with an inexpensive stud finder or other inexpensive electronics, and even Leon's favorite earth magnet trick won't work with some of the lath behind plaster walls. The only way we've been successful is to start on a corner, measure the usual 16 OC, then pray/sound with a 1/16" drill bit ... small enough to cover up with a close match of putty. IME, and no matter how much you spend on a Borg stud finder for a plaster wall, you end up doing that anyway. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#3
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Feb 9, 9:43*am, Swingman wrote:
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Tough to do with an inexpensive stud finder or other inexpensive electronics, and even Leon's favorite earth magnet trick won't work with some of the lath behind plaster walls. The only way we've been successful is to start on a corner, measure the usual 16 OC, then pray/sound with a 1/16" drill bit ... small enough to cover up with a close match of putty. IME, and no matter how much you spend on a Borg stud finder for a plaster wall, you end up doing that anyway. -- eWoodShop:www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop:http://www.e-WoodShop.nethttps://plu.../by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) OK. Was 16" "standard" before there was sheetrock? (and yes, I'm aware that even if it was, I might not find that spacing) The house was built in 1939, I think. My house has plaster walls as well, but over "plasterboard"; like sheetrock, but with a grid of holes for the plaster to grab onto. Their house is just plaster on lath. |
#4
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 8:57 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
K. Was 16" "standard" before there was sheetrock? (and yes, I'm aware that even if it was, I might not find that spacing) The house was built in 1939, Depends ... 16" OC, for a 2x4 studs in platform framed is "standard" in most codes dating far back; 24"OC is "standard" for 2x6 studs. If the house is two story, and has balloon framing, which is not uncommon in houses of that vintage, you may find it closer to the latter (24"). I can tell you one thing ... you will not be happy with ANY stud finder you can buy at a BORG. End of Story If you have to get destructive to anchor that thing for your Dad's safety, which is of paramount importance, Leon's suggestion about using a trim board behind the hand rail is excellent advice. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#5
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 9:12 AM, Swingman wrote:
If you have to get destructive to anchor that thing for your Dad's safety, which is of paramount importance, Leon's suggestion about using a trim board behind the hand rail is excellent advice. But still anchor the handrail brackets to the studs in as many locations as you can. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#6
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Feb 9, 10:14*am, Swingman wrote:
On 2/9/2013 9:12 AM, Swingman wrote: If you have to get destructive to anchor that thing for your Dad's safety, which is of paramount importance, Leon's suggestion about using a trim board behind the hand rail is excellent advice. But still anchor the handrail brackets to the studs in as many locations as you can. -- eWoodShop:www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop:http://www.e-WoodShop.nethttps://plu.../by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) I figure to get three or four studs; it's a very short run of stairs. And yes, I'll be a lot happier if I get a nice long screw to groan it's way in all the way. |
#7
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Feb 9, 10:12*am, Swingman wrote:
On 2/9/2013 8:57 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: K. Was 16" "standard" before there was sheetrock? (and yes, I'm aware that even if it was, I might not find that spacing) The house was built in 1939, Depends ... 16" OC, for a 2x4 studs in platform framed is "standard" in most codes dating far back; 24"OC is "standard" for 2x6 studs. If the house is two story, and has balloon framing, which is not uncommon in houses of that vintage, you may find it closer to the latter (24"). It's two stories, but is actually brick, attached on both sides. I can tell you one thing ... you will not be happy with ANY stud finder you can buy at a BORG. End of Story OK. I doubted that a stud finder would work well in this type of wall anyway. If you have to get destructive to anchor that thing for your Dad's safety, which is of paramount importance, Leon's suggestion about using a trim board behind the hand rail is excellent advice. Yup. That is the most important factor, but my Mom will prefer that it look nice too. |
#8
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
"Swingman" wrote in message ... On 2/9/2013 8:57 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: K. Was 16" "standard" before there was sheetrock? (and yes, I'm aware that even if it was, I might not find that spacing) The house was built in 1939, Depends ... 16" OC, for a 2x4 studs in platform framed is "standard" in most codes dating far back; 24"OC is "standard" for 2x6 studs. If the house is two story, and has balloon framing, which is not uncommon in houses of that vintage, you may find it closer to the latter (24"). I have a quick story. I helped a buddy rehab the old family homestead place to live in. It was documented in the family to 180 years old in 1985. That makes it almost 210 years old, now. Anyway, built with lumber cut off of the property. Cedar studs and poplar joists and rafters. ALL at EXACTLY 16 inches on center. Amazing. Perimeter beam, balloon frame, studs 19 feet long. On the other hand, I have worked on many much younger houses with totally random spacing, also. Go figure. -- Jim in NC |
#9
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 06:57:10 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino
wrote: OK. Was 16" "standard" before there was sheetrock? (and yes, I'm aware that even if it was, I might not find that spacing) The house was built in 1939, I think. My house has plaster walls as well, but over "plasterboard"; like sheetrock, but with a grid of holes for the plaster to grab onto. Their house is just plaster on lath. My 1939 California bungalow in Vista was built using full 2" x 3" rough sawn cedar and redwood studs on 24" centers. It also had knob and tube wiring which looked like a busy Union Telegraph Center in the attic. 1/4" ply topped the studs for the walls and ceilings, and the floor was full 1" thick by 4" (or 5"?) wide pineywood. In demos, I've seen plaster over chicken wire, plaster over lath, and plaster over chicken wire over lath, but all had studs behind them. I think most were built 24" OC and built before WWII. Lath is spaced to provide a place for the plaster to overflow behind it and lock it to the wood. I haven't seen your holey lath before. -- Newman's First Law: It is useless to put on your brakes when you're upside down. --Paul Newman |
#10
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Feb 9, 11:04*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 06:57:10 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino wrote: OK. Was 16" "standard" before there was sheetrock? (and yes, I'm aware that even if it was, I might not find that spacing) The house was built in 1939, I think. My house has plaster walls as well, but over "plasterboard"; like sheetrock, but with a grid of holes for the plaster to grab onto. Their house is just plaster on lath. My 1939 California bungalow in Vista was built using full 2" x 3" rough sawn cedar and redwood studs on 24" centers. It also had knob and tube wiring which looked like a busy Union Telegraph Center in the attic. 1/4" ply topped the studs for the walls and ceilings, and the floor was full 1" thick by 4" (or 5"?) wide pineywood. In demos, I've seen plaster over chicken wire, plaster over lath, and plaster over chicken wire over lath, but all had studs behind them. I think most were built 24" OC and built before WWII. *Lath is spaced to provide a place for the plaster to overflow behind it and lock it to the wood. *I haven't seen your holey lath before. It was apparently called "rock lath" or "button board". Here's a photo: http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/i...lasterLath.jpg |
#11
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 20:50:16 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino
wrote: On Feb 9, 11:04*pm, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 06:57:10 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino wrote: OK. Was 16" "standard" before there was sheetrock? (and yes, I'm aware that even if it was, I might not find that spacing) The house was built in 1939, I think. My house has plaster walls as well, but over "plasterboard"; like sheetrock, but with a grid of holes for the plaster to grab onto. Their house is just plaster on lath. My 1939 California bungalow in Vista was built using full 2" x 3" rough sawn cedar and redwood studs on 24" centers. It also had knob and tube wiring which looked like a busy Union Telegraph Center in the attic. 1/4" ply topped the studs for the walls and ceilings, and the floor was full 1" thick by 4" (or 5"?) wide pineywood. In demos, I've seen plaster over chicken wire, plaster over lath, and plaster over chicken wire over lath, but all had studs behind them. I think most were built 24" OC and built before WWII. *Lath is spaced to provide a place for the plaster to overflow behind it and lock it to the wood. *I haven't seen your holey lath before. It was apparently called "rock lath" or "button board". Here's a photo: http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/i...lasterLath.jpg Whoa! Dat ain't lath like I know it. They're long, thin strips. Interesting. 18x36" strips? It's downright weird. -- In an industrial society which confuses work and productivity, the necessity of producing has always been an enemy of the desire to create. -- Raoul Vaneigem |
#12
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Know anyone with a ground penetrating radar unit? Call the Feds and tell them you "think" you might have a lead on Jimmy Hoffa.g Seriously, two things to consider: 1) Use heavy duty Molly anchors. Drill a pilot for them first and if if you hit a stud, shift gears and start measuring for the rest of them. 2) stay with the Molly's if you don't hit a stud first thing, if you eventually hit one, just switch gears for THAT mount. 3) Go down to the Borg and buy a Zircon Stud Finder. Not the most expensive one, but not the cheapest either. I had their original one, a black thing with LED's that looked like a TV remote. Didn't work all that well. Took another bite of the apple several years later and got one that cost me about $20 - $25 and love it. WTH, if it doesn't work out, you can always return it for a refund, right? |
#13
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. Could you possibly get on top of the wall, from the attic, and locate the studs from the nails in the top plate? |
#14
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. Don't suppose you know how regular the wall stud spacings are, even, do you? Sometimes in those old houses they're as regular as a Swiss watch; sometimes not so much...if they are regular and there's a good corner at one end from which to measure, you've got a reasonable chance. I've not used one so can't say firsthand but reviews of some of the better (as in higher-$$) Zircon and Bosch sounders worked reasonably well w/ plaster walls in a Fine Homebuilding review -- not sure otomh which issue; think it was about first of maybe 2011 based on a quick view of comments... There are those who say the rare-earth magnet "StudTHUD" is supposed to be the cat's meow... www.diamondresource.net/index.php?page=products-stud-thud I've not further info other than that on it, though... One thing is that if the plaster is in good shape on a wood lath paster wall you can use a moly bolt and by getting across and behind the lath it'll be very strong even if you do miss a stud... -- |
#15
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Feb 9, 9:54*am, dpb wrote:
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. Don't suppose you know how regular the wall stud spacings are, even, do you? *Sometimes in those old houses they're as regular as a Swiss watch; sometimes not so much...if they are regular and there's a good corner at one end from which to measure, you've got a reasonable chance. I've not used one so can't say firsthand but reviews of some of the better (as in higher-$$) Zircon and Bosch sounders worked reasonably well w/ plaster walls in a Fine Homebuilding review -- not sure otomh which issue; think it was about first of maybe 2011 based on a quick view of comments... There are those who say the rare-earth magnet "StudTHUD" is supposed to be the cat's meow... www.diamondresource.net/index.php?page=products-stud-thud I've not further info other than that on it, though... One thing is that if the plaster is in good shape on a wood lath paster wall you can use a moly bolt and by getting across and behind the lath it'll be very strong even if you do miss a stud... -- I'd like it to be VERY strong. He doesn't just steady himself on the railing, he practically seems to pull himself up the stairs. I'll feel better, if nothing else, if I get the brackets into the studs. |
#16
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/13 9:07 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'd like it to be VERY strong. He doesn't just steady himself on the railing, he practically seems to pull himself up the stairs. I'll feel better, if nothing else, if I get the brackets into the studs. Thinking a little outside the box.... Think about supports that come off floor flanges, instead of the wall. http://www.thehardwarehut.com/railing_components.php -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#17
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 9:07 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Feb 9, 9:54 am, wrote: On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: .... Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of .... Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. Don't suppose you know how regular the wall stud spacings are, even, do you? Sometimes in those old houses they're as regular as a Swiss watch; sometimes not so much...if they are regular and there's a good corner at one end from which to measure, you've got a reasonable chance. I've not used one so can't say firsthand but reviews of some of the better (as in higher-$$) Zircon and Bosch sounders worked reasonably well w/ plaster walls in a Fine Homebuilding review -- not sure otomh which issue; think it was about first of maybe 2011 based on a quick view of comments... There are those who say the rare-earth magnet "StudTHUD" is supposed to be the cat's meow... www.diamondresource.net/index.php?page=products-stud-thud I've not further info other than that on it, though... One thing is that if the plaster is in good shape on a wood lath paster wall you can use a moly bolt and by getting across and behind the lath it'll be very strong even if you do miss a stud... .... I'd like it to be VERY strong. He doesn't just steady himself on the railing, he practically seems to pull himself up the stairs. I'll feel better, if nothing else, if I get the brackets into the studs. Well, you can always go to a rail board and then it can cover any unwanted holes made to find the actual stud locations. -- |
#18
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. ALTERNATIBELY, Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. |
#19
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
Leon wrote:
ALTERNATIBELY, Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Ah, the voice of experience -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#20
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 9:58 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here ALTERNATIBELY, Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Just a question of interest. Using sensitive thermal imaging equipment could you find the stud by the difference in temperature between the wall over the between studs and the wall over the studs? |
#21
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 9:14 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 2/9/2013 9:58 AM, Leon wrote: On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here ALTERNATIBELY, Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Just a question of interest. Using sensitive thermal imaging equipment could you find the stud by the difference in temperature between the wall over the between studs and the wall over the studs? Only if there is a differntial in temperature between the outside wall and inside wall. IOW, in interior walls, IME, it will not show studs. BTDT -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#22
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 10:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/9/2013 9:14 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote: On 2/9/2013 9:58 AM, Leon wrote: On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here Snipped Just a question of interest. Using sensitive thermal imaging equipment could you find the stud by the difference in temperature between the wall over the between studs and the wall over the studs? Only if there is a differntial in temperature between the outside wall and inside wall. IOW, in interior walls, IME, it will not show studs. BTDT It will work, if one places a couple 500 watt flood lights (work lights) on one side. I've had the city engineer look at my walls for plumbing issues, using the same thermal imager now carried by most fire & police depts. The city here carries an insurance policy on lateral sewer drain repairs which is charged in property taxes and thermal imaging is a very important means of assessing damage. Better plumbing companies are now using thermal imaging to trace out hidden and below grade lines by simply running hot/cold water. But of course, there are always divining (dowsing) rods an sech! :-) -- Digger Bob O'Dell |
#23
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 10:14:49 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote: On 2/9/2013 9:58 AM, Leon wrote: On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here ALTERNATIBELY, Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Just a question of interest. Using sensitive thermal imaging equipment could you find the stud by the difference in temperature between the wall over the between studs and the wall over the studs? How about renting a better radar-type stud finder at the local equipment rental place? -- Newman's First Law: It is useless to put on your brakes when you're upside down. --Paul Newman |
#24
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Feb 9, 9:58*am, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:
On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. ALTERNATIBELY, *Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. *Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Funny thing. That idea occurred to me today while I was thinking about something else. Delays really do increase the efficiency of my work sometimes. I am seriously considering using this method. Swingman suggested a 1/16" bit to find the studs. But I'm worried that I may not have a sensitive enough "feel" for when I've hit a stud with such a small bit and through thick plaster and wood lath. But a decorative board to cover the holes seems pretty foolproof, which is exactly the sort of method I need. Thanks. |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 15:10:32 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino
wrote: On Feb 9, 9:58*am, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. ALTERNATIBELY, *Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. *Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Funny thing. That idea occurred to me today while I was thinking about something else. Delays really do increase the efficiency of my work sometimes. I am seriously considering using this method. Swingman suggested a 1/16" bit to find the studs. But I'm worried that I may not have a sensitive enough "feel" for when I've hit a stud with such a small bit and through thick plaster and wood lath. But a decorative board to cover the holes seems pretty foolproof, which is exactly the sort of method I need. Thanks. Drill with the 1/16 bit. 2 inched max depth. Sound the holes with a 3" pin. If it stops at 2", you are in a stud. If it goes farther than 2", you are not. |
#26
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
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#28
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
wrote in message ... On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 15:10:32 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino wrote: On Feb 9, 9:58 am, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. ALTERNATIBELY, Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Funny thing. That idea occurred to me today while I was thinking about something else. Delays really do increase the efficiency of my work sometimes. I am seriously considering using this method. Swingman suggested a 1/16" bit to find the studs. But I'm worried that I may not have a sensitive enough "feel" for when I've hit a stud with such a small bit and through thick plaster and wood lath. But a decorative board to cover the holes seems pretty foolproof, which is exactly the sort of method I need. Thanks. Drill with the 1/16 bit. 2 inched max depth. Sound the holes with a 3" pin. If it stops at 2", you are in a stud. If it goes farther than 2", you are not. Brilliant idea. I may find this for use sometime. WW |
#29
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Feb 9, 8:49*pm, "WW" wrote:
wrote in messagenews:rvodh85g8nv7e0kgcc968vc4gc0r6dek6o@4ax .com... On Sat, 9 Feb 2013 15:10:32 -0800 (PST), Greg Guarino wrote: On Feb 9, 9:58 am, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. ALTERNATIBELY, *Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. *Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Funny thing. That idea occurred to me today while I was thinking about something else. Delays really do increase the efficiency of my work sometimes. I am seriously considering using this method. Swingman suggested a 1/16" bit to find the studs. But I'm worried that I may not have a sensitive enough "feel" for when I've hit a stud with such a small bit and through thick plaster and wood lath. But a decorative board to cover the holes seems pretty foolproof, which is exactly the sort of method I need. Thanks. * Drill with the 1/16 bit. 2 inched max depth. Sound the holes with a 3" pin. If it stops at 2", you are in a stud. If it goes farther than 2", you are not. Brilliant idea. *I may find this for use sometime. WW I agree. Simple and sure. I'll try it. |
#30
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Feb 9, 9:58 am, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote: On 2/9/2013 8:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. ALTERNATIBELY, Drill lots of holes to find your studs in a straight line even with where the rail will go. Cover all of those holes up with a 1x4 piece of wood to match the hand rail, anchoring it to the studs you found. Mount your hand rail to the board you just used to cover the holes. Funny thing. That idea occurred to me today while I was thinking about something else. Delays really do increase the efficiency of my work sometimes. I am seriously considering using this method. Swingman suggested a 1/16" bit to find the studs. But I'm worried that I may not have a sensitive enough "feel" for when I've hit a stud with such a small bit and through thick plaster and wood lath. But a decorative board to cover the holes seems pretty foolproof, which is exactly the sort of method I need. Thanks. As dadiOH mentioned, I have been there, although I used crown molding to hide an exterior wall alarm contact wire. |
#31
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Saturday, February 9, 2013 6:16:55 AM UTC-8, Greg Guarino wrote:
This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. If there is no insulation in the wall cavity, I've had luck with the following procedu Drill a 1/8" hole, bend a coat wire into two 90° angles (z shaped), insert one leg into the hole and rotate the wire. When you hit a stud, the outer identical leg, will show you where the edge of the stud is located. May require more than one hole. Ivan Vegvary |
#32
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 9:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. What's on the other side of that wall? Perchance a closet or hidden area behind a bed so that you can explore for a couple of studs and transfer your measurements to the other side. -- GW Ross The bigger they are, the harder they hit. |
#33
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 10:52 AM, G.W.Ross wrote:
On 2/9/2013 9:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. What's on the other side of that wall? Perchance a closet or hidden area behind a bed so that you can explore for a couple of studs and transfer your measurements to the other side. Can you get under the stairway to check for where the support is nailed? -- GW Ross The bigger they are, the harder they hit. |
#34
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On 2/9/2013 9:52 AM, G.W.Ross wrote:
On 2/9/2013 9:16 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. [snip] What's on the other side of that wall? Perchance a closet or hidden area behind a bed so that you can explore for a couple of studs and transfer your measurements to the other side. Damn! You go, G.W. Somebody build another box, so G.W. can think outside of it. Two good suggestions! That's why I love this group. There ALWAYS seems to be another way to do something and, if there is, you'll read it here. |
#35
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Feb 9, 9:16*am, Greg Guarino wrote:
This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came back from school and found that the rest of the demolition had already been completed. ] Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If it comes down to it, I suppose I could remove the base molding and drill holes at the bottom of the wall, but the molding is finished oak, and a little complicated, and would be very hard to replace if an oaf like me were to damage it. Suggestions? I imagine I'd use oak railing parts from the Borg, by the way. By eye. The studs might be high enough that you can see them against a back light. A desk lamp is the only tool you need. |
#36
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
"Greg Guarino" wrote in message ... Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If you want to go looking for studs, here's the stud finder you want to use. http://www.garrettwade.com/product.asp?pn=25T23.01 Makes a tiny hole, less than 1/32 in diameter, that you can fill with a little smear of toothpaste, or just leave if it's in an inconspicuous place. Never needs batteries :-) Tom |
#37
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
In article ,
tdacon wrote: "Greg Guarino" wrote in message ... Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If you want to go looking for studs, here's the stud finder you want to use. http://www.garrettwade.com/product.asp?pn=25T23.01 Makes a tiny hole, less than 1/32 in diameter, that you can fill with a little smear of toothpaste, or just leave if it's in an inconspicuous place. Never needs batteries :-) That looks like a great idea, but have you ever tried it on a real plaster wall? In my own 1920's era (and former 1880's era) home, there's no way you could push a wire or pin through the original plaster. It was tough even to hammer a very thin nail into. -- Often wrong, never in doubt. Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org |
#38
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
Larry W wrote:
In article , tdacon wrote: "Greg Guarino" wrote in message ... Anyway, I have no experience finding studs in that kind of construction. The walls are too rigid for me to just sound them out with my fist. I don't own a stud finder, but I might buy one if it's of any use in that kind of wall. I'm not eager to drill a series of holes that I'll need to repair, and then match the paint. If you want to go looking for studs, here's the stud finder you want to use. http://www.garrettwade.com/product.asp?pn=25T23.01 Makes a tiny hole, less than 1/32 in diameter, that you can fill with a little smear of toothpaste, or just leave if it's in an inconspicuous place. Never needs batteries :-) That looks like a great idea, but have you ever tried it on a real plaster wall? In my own 1920's era (and former 1880's era) home, there's no way you could push a wire or pin through the original plaster. It was tough even to hammer a very thin nail into. Of course, nails are intended to squeeze between wood fibers. |
#39
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Saturday, February 9, 2013 9:16:55 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came Locate the nail holes in the baseboard and you will know where the studs are. RP |
#40
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Any carpenters here? (installing a handrail)
On Sun, 10 Feb 2013 07:57:59 -0800 (PST), RP wrote:
On Saturday, February 9, 2013 9:16:55 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote: This is not really a woodworking question, but I figure someone here can answer it. My Dad is 92 and needs to grab onto things to climb the stairs. But for a short section of the stairway in their house, there's no sensible thing to grab. Their house is plaster on lath if memory serves. Wood strips, I think, not wire. [This is an ancient memory. My parents had a larger closet made when I was a very young boy and I was allowed to bash away at the plaster for a little while. I remember being disappointed when I came Locate the nail holes in the baseboard and you will know where the studs are. I thought baseboard was nailed into the bottom plate. |
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