A friend just contributed a few 3x3x18" of very well aged walnut to my collection. My spouse is having an allergic reaction to the stuff which is currently in the garage. I have wrapped it in a plastic bag to see if that solves the problem. Any other clues as to how to handle the situation.

Len

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:50:19 -0700 (PDT), Len
wrote:

A friend just contributed a few 3x3x18" of very well aged walnut to my collection. My spouse is having an allergic reaction to the stuff which is currently in the garage. I have wrapped it in a plastic bag to see if that solves the problem. Any other clues as to how to handle the situation.

Len

If you've had walnut around before with no problems, I'd be thinking
of a fungus or mold or bugs or similar rather than the wood itself.

I'm not going to advise as to the best way to treat that; people use
bleach or wood preservative or heat or whatever and it seems to me
there can be risks. Like if you put it in the oven for some hours,
your wife's allergies are going to be hit much harder. Or could a
chemical be bad for the wood?

I'd try something else besides wrapping in plastic because you may get
condensation inside and moisture damage. Maybe wrap it in shellac?

On 10/20/2012 11:50 AM, Len wrote:
A friend just contributed a few 3x3x18" of very well aged walnut to
mycollection. My spouse is having an allergic reaction to the stuff ...

a) are you sure it's the walnut, and

b) what kind of allergic reaction?

While there are some who are somewhat allergic to walnut sawdust, it
would seem unusual for simply a solid sample to cause such on its
own--as another poster suggests, perhaps there's another contaminant in
play here.

--

Len wrote:
A friend just contributed a few 3x3x18" of very well aged walnut to my collection. My spouse is having an allergic reaction to the stuff which is currently in the garage. I have wrapped it in a plastic bag to see if that solves the problem. Any other clues as to how to handle the situation.

Len


I would helpful to know where/how it was stored before you got it.

If it has already had a chance to out-gas, and it is still a problem,
then (as someone who understands your wife's side all too well), I'd
give up on it. Theoretically, if you coat it well-enough, you could
probably slow the out-gassing to the point where it is not a problem.

Another thought is that you might work the wood and then let it outgas
in the garage (or shed, or what have you) for a few months. Then put the
finish on after that.

The problem with leaving it in the plastic bag is that it won't out-gas.

I bought some tall audio speakers this week made out of MDF that will
make me sweat if I sit next to them (like when I attached the wires).
Whether its the MDF, the glue or the finish is inconsequential. I air
the house out too. I know from experience that time will heal them.
It took me years to start blaming "furniture" for causing physical
symptoms (it was just too "ridiculous" of a notion).

After writing all of that, maybe it is more likely that mold or mildew
is the problem? I've heard of wood dust being an issue, but I'm not sure
what gas that wood has to outgas? I hope my post wasn't a waste of your
time.

Bill

"Len" wrote in message
...
A friend just contributed a few 3x3x18" of very well aged walnut to my
collection. My spouse is having an allergic reaction to the stuff which is
currently in the garage. I have wrapped it in a plastic bag to see if that
solves the problem. Any other clues as to how to handle the situation.

Len

As others have said, it might not be the wood itself. I would add rodent
urine/feces to the list of possible contaminants. I cannot seem to keep the
critters out of my wood storage shed.

John

On 10/20/2012 10:50 AM, Len wrote:
A friend just contributed a few 3x3x18" of very well aged walnut to my collection. My spouse is having an allergic reaction to the stuff which is currently in the garage. I have wrapped it in a plastic bag to see if that solves the problem. Any other clues as to how to handle the situation.

Len


That stuff is dangerous. You should immediately ship it to me for
proper disposal.

Does the walnut have a mold on the outside that she is allergic to ?

Walnut dust is dangerous to horse hoof and might be a like issue
with some people warning of the danger.

http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/roche/...isc/wood.toxic

This was posted some years ago - and again now by myself - from my pdf
of the page. Walnut is at the bottom -


Many woods are on this list - Check out the letter table next page!!!

Martin

On 10/22/2012 9:41 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

"Len" wrote in message
...
A friend just contributed a few 3x3x18" of very well aged walnut to my
collection. My spouse is having an allergic reaction to the stuff
which is currently in the garage. I have wrapped it in a plastic bag
to see if that solves the problem. Any other clues as to how to
handle the situation.

Len

As others have said, it might not be the wood itself. I would add rodent
urine/feces to the list of possible contaminants. I cannot seem to keep
the critters out of my wood storage shed.

John

In article ,
Bill wrote:

I bought some tall audio speakers this week made out of MDF that will
make me sweat if I sit next to them (like when I attached the wires).
Whether its the MDF, the glue or the finish is inconsequential.

MDF contains Formaldehyde.

It isn't very nice stuff.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

On 10/24/12 5:47 PM, Stuart wrote:
MDF contains Formaldehyde

Not the stuff I use.

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Stuart wrote:
In article ,
Bill wrote:

I bought some tall audio speakers this week made out of MDF that will
make me sweat if I sit next to them (like when I attached the wires).
Whether its the MDF, the glue or the finish is inconsequential.

MDF contains Formaldehyde.

It isn't very nice stuff.


When I first opened the end of one of the cardboard boxes, the odor was
abundant. Of course, Formaldehyde is odorless, but the "new" odor is a
good indicator of it's presense. The first 3 or 4 days, I let the house
air out. Now, after a week, it's mostly ignorable. In low doses, it
gives me a slight shortness of breath, in higher doses it makes me
sweat. If I sand and inhale some of the sawdust from such materials, it
will put me to bed and ruin the rest of the day. I've performed that
experiment twice (being cavalier about it doesn't help!)

I'm hoping for better results from Home Depot's "Purebond" brand plywood
which is "Formaldehyde-free". I am currently designing a tv-stand
involving it, but I'm still in the paper and pencil stage.

The plywood is veneered (Cherry). If I use a circular saw with a
40-tooth blade, should I expect a lot of ripout of the veneer? It is
$45 for a 3/4" sheet. I also have handsaws I can use (maybe too
aggressive?) . I was thinking of a design where exposed plywood edges
are covered by real Cherry (like inside a dado). IIRC, there some sort
of banding/strip that could also be used. Please comment, if anyone is
willing to, on the best way to approach covering explosed edges of
plywood shelves.

Assuming a 48" long stand (holding an approximately 50-pound tv), and a
15 pound audio receiver, etc., I'm assuming 3/4" would be suitable for
the top and bottom and 1/2" for the shelves. Does that sound right? I
think a tv stand is a good place to start for a beginner (like me)! It
would be easier with even a cheap TS, huh? But I expect not much better
results than if I use my circular saw. I don't expect one can plane the
edge of veneered plywood. Is that right?

Cheers (& sorry for such a long post..)
Bill

On Wednesday, October 24, 2012 7:51:37 PM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
Stuart wrote:

In article ,

Bill wrote:



I bought some tall audio speakers this week made out of MDF that will

make me sweat if I sit next to them (like when I attached the wires).

Whether its the MDF, the glue or the finish is inconsequential.



MDF contains Formaldehyde.



It isn't very nice stuff.





When I first opened the end of one of the cardboard boxes, the odor was

abundant. Of course, Formaldehyde is odorless, but the "new" odor is a

good indicator of it's presense. The first 3 or 4 days, I let the house

air out. Now, after a week, it's mostly ignorable. In low doses, it

gives me a slight shortness of breath, in higher doses it makes me

sweat. If I sand and inhale some of the sawdust from such materials, it

will put me to bed and ruin the rest of the day. I've performed that

experiment twice (being cavalier about it doesn't help!)



I'm hoping for better results from Home Depot's "Purebond" brand plywood

which is "Formaldehyde-free". I am currently designing a tv-stand

involving it, but I'm still in the paper and pencil stage.



The plywood is veneered (Cherry). If I use a circular saw with a

40-tooth blade, should I expect a lot of ripout of the veneer? It is

$45 for a 3/4" sheet. I also have handsaws I can use (maybe too

aggressive?) . I was thinking of a design where exposed plywood edges

are covered by real Cherry (like inside a dado). IIRC, there some sort

of banding/strip that could also be used. Please comment, if anyone is

willing to, on the best way to approach covering explosed edges of

plywood shelves.



Assuming a 48" long stand (holding an approximately 50-pound tv), and a

15 pound audio receiver, etc., I'm assuming 3/4" would be suitable for

the top and bottom and 1/2" for the shelves. Does that sound right? I

think a tv stand is a good place to start for a beginner (like me)! It

would be easier with even a cheap TS, huh? But I expect not much better

results than if I use my circular saw. I don't expect one can plane the

edge of veneered plywood. Is that right?



Cheers (& sorry for such a long post..)

Bill

You know, I have "sworn off" Home Depot plywood 3 or 4 times during the past couple of years. Yet, I keep returning for another frustrating experience. These experiences range from the cheapest C-D ply that seemed to warp in the bed of my pickup on the way home, to a couple of sheets of more expensive Oak and Birch veneer plywood that proved to be so full of hidden voids that my finger went through the surface while working with it.

My most recent experience was a sheet of Birch that looked pretty good on the "good" side. My wife and I lifted it off of the stack high enough to see the other side and actually saw some pretty nice grain in the shadows of the stack, so we slid it off onto the cart. When we got it home (35 miles from the store, there was an obvious "dent" that came and went across much of the width of the sheet on what was the bottom side. This was due to a void in the layer beneath the veneer that extended across the sheet. The ply was used for a garage cabinet so I didn't make the 70 mile round trip to return it but I WILL pay the 20%-30% higher price at a closer lumber yard next time.

You truly do get what you pay for.

RonB

"Bill" wrote:

The plywood is veneered (Cherry). If I use a circular saw with a
40-tooth blade, should I expect a lot of ripout of the veneer? It
is $45 for a 3/4" sheet.
--------------------------------------------------

Make your circular saw cuts 1/8" proud then bring to size with a
straight
edge and a router with 1/2" straight edge.
---------------------------------------------------
Please comment, if anyone is willing to, on the best way to approach
covering explosed edges of plywood shelves.
-----------------------------------------------------
Standard veneer tape designed for the purpose using either a heat gun
and roller or a clothing iron.

Trim to size with router bit designed for the specific task.
------------------------------------------------

Assuming a 48" long stand (holding an approximately 50-pound tv),
and a 15 pound audio receiver, etc., I'm assuming 3/4" would be
suitable for the top and bottom and 1/2" for the shelves. Does that
sound right?
-------------------------------------------------------
NO. Use 3/4" through out and band front and back with 3/4"x1-1/2"
stock for
the shelves.

Even then you are pushing the design.
-----------------------------------------------------
I think a tv stand is a good place to start for a beginner (like
me)! It would be easier with even a cheap TS, huh? But I expect not
much better results than if I use my circular saw.
---------------------------------------------
Why not?

I've built similar things using a Bosch 1587 jig saw, a router, a
straight
edge(Aluminum angle) and some C-Clamps.

Lew

RonB wrote:

You know, I have "sworn off" Home Depot plywood 3 or 4 times during the past couple of years. Yet, I keep returning for another frustrating experience. These experiences range from the cheapest C-D ply that seemed to warp in the bed of my pickup on the way home, to a couple of sheets of more expensive Oak and Birch veneer plywood that proved to be so full of hidden voids that my finger went through the surface while working with it.

My most recent experience was a sheet of Birch that looked pretty good on the "good" side. My wife and I lifted it off of the stack high enough to see the other side and actually saw some pretty nice grain in the shadows of the stack, so we slid it off onto the cart. When we got it home (35 miles from the store, there was an obvious "dent" that came and went across much of the width of the sheet on what was the bottom side. This was due to a void in the layer beneath the veneer that extended across the sheet. The ply was used for a garage cabinet so I didn't make the 70 mile round trip to return it but I WILL pay the 20%-30% higher price at a closer lumber yard next time.

You truly do get what you pay for.

I don't dispute that you get what you pay for, but I suspect you can't
get a sheet of Formaldehyde-free plywood at your favorite lumberyard.
I'm in the "desperate" stage--I'll spackle it! : )


RonB

Lew Hodgett wrote:

I've built similar things using a Bosch 1587 jig saw, a router, a
straight
edge(Aluminum angle) and some C-Clamps.

Lew




Thank you very much for your suggestions (I printed them out)!

I'll post a sketch after I make one. I browsed Google's images of "TV
Stands" yesterday, and was suddently overwhelmed. Cabinet doors on each
end would be nice... : )

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:

The plywood is veneered (Cherry). If I use a circular saw with a
40-tooth blade, should I expect a lot of ripout of the veneer? It
is $45 for a 3/4" sheet.
--------------------------------------------------

Make your circular saw cuts 1/8" proud then bring to size with a
straight
edge and a router with 1/2" straight edge.
---------------------------------------------------
Please comment, if anyone is willing to, on the best way to approach
covering explosed edges of plywood shelves.
-----------------------------------------------------
Standard veneer tape designed for the purpose using either a heat gun
and roller or a clothing iron.

Trim to size with router bit designed for the specific task.
------------------------------------------------

Assuming a 48" long stand (holding an approximately 50-pound tv),
and a 15 pound audio receiver, etc., I'm assuming 3/4" would be
suitable for the top and bottom and 1/2" for the shelves. Does that
sound right?
-------------------------------------------------------
NO. Use 3/4" through out and band front and back with 3/4"x1-1/2"
stock for
the shelves.

Lew,

I'm not sure whether I understook what you meant by "band"-ing the front
and back. I tried to, but at this point, I don't think I have captured
it in my design (I just posted a picture of it on my site):

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

I sense I'm not doing enough to prevent a collapse from "wracking" (and
I think your "bands" may be related to that). I learned from my drawing
that it's a few inches too deep too. The ends are (too) square. This is
just my first shot at it; I started right after I read your earlier
message. I still need to add doors on the sides and more shelves to make
the space on the ends usable. I think I should problably drill holes
too, so I have adjustable shelves. Maybe a Masonite back?

Comments are always welcome!

BTW, in case LarryJ is keeping track, I don't really own a cable box
anymore. But these days you never know what might take it's place. I
have a clock I can stick in there.

Cheers,
Bill




Even then you are pushing the design.
-----------------------------------------------------
I think a tv stand is a good place to start for a beginner (like
me)! It would be easier with even a cheap TS, huh? But I expect not
much better results than if I use my circular saw.
---------------------------------------------
Why not?

I've built similar things using a Bosch 1587 jig saw, a router, a
straight
edge(Aluminum angle) and some C-Clamps.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:
snip
-----------------------------------------------------
I think a tv stand is a good place to start for a beginner (like
me)! It would be easier with even a cheap TS, huh? But I expect not
much better results than if I use my circular saw.
---------------------------------------------
Why not?

I've built similar things using a Bosch 1587 jig saw, a router, a
straight
edge(Aluminum angle) and some C-Clamps.

Lew

Is a jig saw less likely to create nasty tear-out here than a circular
saw? I would not have thought of it. My recollection of using one long
ago is that it doesn't leave as pretty of an edge but that it is a bit
easier to control. Of course, the router cleans up the edge.

Bill wrote:
Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:
snip
-----------------------------------------------------
I think a tv stand is a good place to start for a beginner (like
me)! It would be easier with even a cheap TS, huh? But I expect not
much better results than if I use my circular saw.
---------------------------------------------
Why not?

I've built similar things using a Bosch 1587 jig saw, a router, a
straight
edge(Aluminum angle) and some C-Clamps.

Lew

You like that 1/2", (1/20"-thick) Aluminum angle bar, right?
Only $6.64 at Big Orange.

Bill wrote in :

*snip*


The plywood is veneered (Cherry). If I use a circular saw with a
40-tooth blade, should I expect a lot of ripout of the veneer? It is
$45 for a 3/4" sheet. I also have handsaws I can use (maybe too
aggressive?) . I was thinking of a design where exposed plywood edges
are covered by real Cherry (like inside a dado). IIRC, there some sort
of banding/strip that could also be used. Please comment, if anyone is
willing to, on the best way to approach covering explosed edges of
plywood shelves.


*snip*

I wouldn't bother covering the exposed edges, I'd figure out some way to
hide them completely. Here's the deal: I tried covering edges with a
piece of wood and then planing it smooth to the face of the plywood.
Some of the plywood was damaged during the planing process, even with the
plane taking a very fine cut.

On a later project, I added a strip of wood to the edge of the plywood
using tongue and groove joinery. This covered the edge of the plywood
nicely, and the difference in height was small enough that a sander took
care of it easily.

If you need a frame to support your plywood better, you can recess the
plywood down in to the frame. This has the benefit of not only
supporting the plywood but hiding the edges at the same time.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 10/25/12 12:24 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
I wouldn't bother covering the exposed edges, I'd figure out some way to
hide them completely. Here's the deal: I tried covering edges with a
piece of wood and then planing it smooth to the face of the plywood.
Some of the plywood was damaged during the planing process, even with the
plane taking a very fine cut.

On a later project, I added a strip of wood to the edge of the plywood
using tongue and groove joinery. This covered the edge of the plywood
nicely, and the difference in height was small enough that a sander took
care of it easily.


I've edged a lot of plywood with solid wood strips.
I use a router with a fat pattern bit and it creates flawless, perfectly
even seems with very little effort. It's much easier and more fail-safe
than planing.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article ,
-MIKE- wrote:
On 10/24/12 5:47 PM, Stuart wrote:
MDF contains Formaldehyde

Not the stuff I use.

You're lucky to be able to find it.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

In article ,
Bill wrote:
The plywood is veneered (Cherry). If I use a circular saw with a
40-tooth blade, should I expect a lot of ripout of the veneer? It is
$45 for a 3/4" sheet. I also have handsaws I can use (maybe too
aggressive?) . I was thinking of a design where exposed plywood edges
are covered by real Cherry (like inside a dado). IIRC, there some sort
of banding/strip that could also be used. Please comment, if anyone is
willing to, on the best way to approach covering explosed edges of
plywood shelves.

A fine tooth handsaw, like a tenon saw, will often give better results but
it must be sharp. Running masking tape or Sellotape along the line of the
saw cut before cutting is an old trick to reduce break-away.

I presume you are talking about the thin veneer strip with the heat
sensitive adhesive that you iron on. Yes this works but the traditional
method would be to glue a thin strip of wood about 3/8" thick, of
appropriate width, along the edge. Usually you use a piece slightly wider
and plane/sand till flush with the plywood surface.

However, I have often been impressed just how thin they can cut veneer
these days. I have had ply where just a few strokes of the sandpaper, by
hand, has seen the veneer vanish so be careful.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:51:30 -0400, Bill wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:

The plywood is veneered (Cherry). If I use a circular saw with a
40-tooth blade, should I expect a lot of ripout of the veneer? It
is $45 for a 3/4" sheet.
--------------------------------------------------

Make your circular saw cuts 1/8" proud then bring to size with a
straight
edge and a router with 1/2" straight edge.
---------------------------------------------------
Please comment, if anyone is willing to, on the best way to approach
covering explosed edges of plywood shelves.
-----------------------------------------------------
Standard veneer tape designed for the purpose using either a heat gun
and roller or a clothing iron.

Trim to size with router bit designed for the specific task.
------------------------------------------------

Assuming a 48" long stand (holding an approximately 50-pound tv),
and a 15 pound audio receiver, etc., I'm assuming 3/4" would be
suitable for the top and bottom and 1/2" for the shelves. Does that
sound right?
-------------------------------------------------------
NO. Use 3/4" through out and band front and back with 3/4"x1-1/2"
stock for
the shelves.

Lew,

I'm not sure whether I understook what you meant by "band"-ing the front
and back. I tried to, but at this point, I don't think I have captured
it in my design (I just posted a picture of it on my site):

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

Wow, fancy! That's a newfangled 'rectangle' thang, ain't it?


I sense I'm not doing enough to prevent a collapse from "wracking" (and
I think your "bands" may be related to that). I learned from my drawing
that it's a few inches too deep too. The ends are (too) square. This is
just my first shot at it; I started right after I read your earlier
message. I still need to add doors on the sides and more shelves to make
the space on the ends usable. I think I should problably drill holes
too, so I have adjustable shelves. Maybe a Masonite back?

Yes, drill holes for adjustable or removable shelving. Notch them so
the shelves don't slide front and back. This makes them fit over the
pins, hiding them, as an added benefit. I'd use 1/4 or 1/8 ply for
the back.

Comments are always welcome!

Biscuit the verticals, leave a reveal top and bottom, make the shelves
end 2" short of the back and drill 3" holes top and bottom for
ventilation and cord access.


BTW, in case LarryJ is keeping track, I don't really own a cable box
anymore. But these days you never know what might take it's place. I
have a clock I can stick in there.

Alright. You're forgiven, but only if you turn the power off to it
occasionally, so the 12:00 flashes constantly. wink


P.S: Use the proper colored wood so you don't have to smear RBS all
over the poor dear. Waterlox is a clear, simple, durable finish.
Prefinish by taping glueable areas with 1/2" tape.


P.P.S: By banding, he probably meant this:
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/38701

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On 10/25/12 2:43 AM, Stuart wrote:
In article ,
-MIKE- wrote:
On 10/24/12 5:47 PM, Stuart wrote:
MDF contains Formaldehyde

Not the stuff I use.

You're lucky to be able to find it.


Three big non-chain plywood warehouses within 15 minutes.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:38:02 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 10/25/12 12:24 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
I wouldn't bother covering the exposed edges, I'd figure out some way to
hide them completely. Here's the deal: I tried covering edges with a
piece of wood and then planing it smooth to the face of the plywood.
Some of the plywood was damaged during the planing process, even with the
plane taking a very fine cut.

On a later project, I added a strip of wood to the edge of the plywood
using tongue and groove joinery. This covered the edge of the plywood
nicely, and the difference in height was small enough that a sander took
care of it easily.


I've edged a lot of plywood with solid wood strips.
I use a router with a fat pattern bit and it creates flawless, perfectly
even seems with very little effort. It's much easier and more fail-safe
than planing.

These work nicely, too.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...banding_anchor

"Bill" wrote:

Lew,

I'm not sure whether I understook what you meant by "band"-ing the
front and back. I tried to, but at this point, I don't think I have
captured it in my design (I just posted a picture of it on my site):

http://web.newsguy.com/MySite/

-----------------------------------------------------------------
What's that old saying about a picture being worth a thousand words?

Your maximum unsupported span is 24", not 48".

Big difference.

The "banding" I referred to was a 3/4"x1-1/2" piece under both the
front
and back edges of a 48" long shelf.

Not your situation so not necessary.

Lay in a piece of 1/4" ply into top,bottom and side rabbets to prevent
racking.

This creates another problem: Ventilation.

Easiest way is to make shelves 2"-3" shorter than sides and cut some
ventilation holes in the rear ply.

Use shelf pins to support shelves and make them adjustable.

Rockler has a good gage. Ping Leon for the one he uses.

Get a couple of 10" flat ******* files and use them to trim excess
veneer tape.

Less chance of damaging 3/4" ply cherry veneer.



Lew

"Bill" wrote:
snip

Is a jig saw less likely to create nasty tear-out here than a
circular saw?

Yes, if you use a 10 TPI Bosch blade and some masking tape.

Also, aluminum angle should be at least 1-1/2"x1-1/2"xx1/8"x96".

I use a 2x2x1/8x96.

Lew

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:38:02 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 10/25/12 12:24 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
I wouldn't bother covering the exposed edges, I'd figure out some way to
hide them completely. Here's the deal: I tried covering edges with a
piece of wood and then planing it smooth to the face of the plywood.
Some of the plywood was damaged during the planing process, even with the
plane taking a very fine cut.

On a later project, I added a strip of wood to the edge of the plywood
using tongue and groove joinery. This covered the edge of the plywood
nicely, and the difference in height was small enough that a sander took
care of it easily.


I've edged a lot of plywood with solid wood strips.
I use a router with a fat pattern bit and it creates flawless, perfectly
even seems with very little effort. It's much easier and more fail-safe
than planing.

These work nicely, too.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...banding_anchor


All are interesting ideas. IIUC, They still seem to leave the
"challenge" of flush-trimming to very thin veneers. Thank you for the
lesson (s)!

Bill

Lew Hodgett wrote:

The "banding" I referred to was a 3/4"x1-1/2" piece under both the
front
and back edges of a 48" long shelf.

Not your situation so not necessary.

Lay in a piece of 1/4" ply into top,bottom and side rabbets to prevent
racking.


IIUC, That will definitely reinforce those upright pieces (in lieu of a
dado cut). It seems like with all of that reinforcement, the omission
of biscuit joinery can reasonably be omitted. It won't be a problem if
I only finish the explosed sides, will it (I think if it were a simple
piece of solid wood, there would be a concern)?

I have several pages of notes and I definitely learned a lot from this
thread!


BTW, It seems like a few feet to stand on (8--2 near the end of each
vertical), might help protect the unit from the "overzealous" vacuuming
that occasionally occurs here. My inclination is they would need to be
attached by several bolts going through the plywood (or a more
sophisticated method). Please correct/advise concerning feet.

Thank you all again for the lesson (s)!

Bill

On 10/25/12 12:47 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:38:02 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 10/25/12 12:24 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
I wouldn't bother covering the exposed edges, I'd figure out some way to
hide them completely. Here's the deal: I tried covering edges with a
piece of wood and then planing it smooth to the face of the plywood.
Some of the plywood was damaged during the planing process, even with the
plane taking a very fine cut.

On a later project, I added a strip of wood to the edge of the plywood
using tongue and groove joinery. This covered the edge of the plywood
nicely, and the difference in height was small enough that a sander took
care of it easily.


I've edged a lot of plywood with solid wood strips.
I use a router with a fat pattern bit and it creates flawless, perfectly
even seems with very little effort. It's much easier and more fail-safe
than planing.

These work nicely, too.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...banding_anchor


I tried that route (pun!) but for it's unnecessary and time consuming. The
strength is in the glue. Unless you're stacking anvils on your shelves,
you don't need that T&G.

I know those bits are supposed to help align perfectly, but they don't
always.
Besides, if you're going to have to make all those passes with the
router, why not make two quicker passes with a pattern but and have
perfect seems? It's so much easier to just cut the edge strips a little
proud, glue them on without worrying about perfect alignment, and make a
quick pass on each side.

You have even do the pattern bit cutting on edge on a router table by
making a simple form to hold the shelves 90 perpendicular to the router
table. I actually use my slot/tenon cutting jig from my table saw.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:12:55 -0400, Bill wrote:

Lew Hodgett wrote:

The "banding" I referred to was a 3/4"x1-1/2" piece under both the
front
and back edges of a 48" long shelf.

Not your situation so not necessary.

Lay in a piece of 1/4" ply into top,bottom and side rabbets to prevent
racking.


IIUC, That will definitely reinforce those upright pieces (in lieu of a
dado cut). It seems like with all of that reinforcement, the omission
of biscuit joinery can reasonably be omitted.

Yes, definitely omit the omission as you planned. Repeat after me:
Bisquicks are good. Bisquicks are good. Bisquicks are good.


It won't be a problem if
I only finish the explosed sides, will it (I think if it were a simple
piece of solid wood, there would be a concern)?

Heathen. Finish everything. It's good policy. It's also easier to
dust and clean.


I have several pages of notes and I definitely learned a lot from this
thread!

The above musings don't appear to confirm that, Wee Willy.


BTW, It seems like a few feet to stand on (8--2 near the end of each
vertical), might help protect the unit from the "overzealous" vacuuming
that occasionally occurs here. My inclination is they would need to be
attached by several bolts going through the plywood (or a more
sophisticated method). Please correct/advise concerning feet.

Double bottoms are common. It helps to lower the center of gravity
and 1.5ish inches of meat to screw legs into. Double-ended lags are
common for legs.


Thank you all again for the lesson (s)!

Jewelcome.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:22:56 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:38:02 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 10/25/12 12:24 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
I wouldn't bother covering the exposed edges, I'd figure out some way to
hide them completely. Here's the deal: I tried covering edges with a
piece of wood and then planing it smooth to the face of the plywood.
Some of the plywood was damaged during the planing process, even with the
plane taking a very fine cut.

On a later project, I added a strip of wood to the edge of the plywood
using tongue and groove joinery. This covered the edge of the plywood
nicely, and the difference in height was small enough that a sander took
care of it easily.


I've edged a lot of plywood with solid wood strips.
I use a router with a fat pattern bit and it creates flawless, perfectly
even seems with very little effort. It's much easier and more fail-safe
than planing.

These work nicely, too.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...banding_anchor


All are interesting ideas. IIUC, They still seem to leave the
"challenge" of flush-trimming to very thin veneers. Thank you for the
lesson (s)!

2 tips: practice makes perfect, and don't buy super-thin veneers.

Oh, one mo file it flush if you have trouble routing it. Use a fine
file and careful strokes toward the joint, always from the piece of
veneer which overlaps the other. Filing works well for plastic
laminate, too.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On 10/25/2012 10:12 PM, Bill wrote:

I have several pages of notes and I definitely learned a lot from this
thread!

To stiffen up that casework you posted a model of, capture your vertical
dividers in dadoes instead of using butt joints with biscuits.

Also capture the ends of the top and floor in dadoes in the top and
bottom of the end panels ... that will strengthen the casework further,
as well as hide the ends of those components.

(When you really must stiffen this type of casework to withstand hard
use, drill holes and glue in dowels into each of the joins, thusly):

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...1917253 74850

Dowels can a contrasting wood in an attractive pattern if need be, or
the casework top can be an secondary wood, with the real top attached to it.

This method is an example of an old cabinetmaker's principle used to
build casework that will not rack of sag that, paraphrased, goes like this:

"If a case part joins another at a corner, dovetail it; if one part
meets along another's length, use multiple through tenons."

You can get much the same effect with dadoes and dowels, or use loose
tenons, thusly:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/MSBDTCase3.JPG

While you're in the planning stages you may want to contemplate using a
separate top of primary wood, and putting the unit on a frame base,
perhaps slightly smaller than the actual casework foot print ... you
will likely find that sitting the casework directly on the floor, as
drawn, is going to be unsatisfactory in the long run.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 10/25/2012 9:22 PM, Bill wrote:
All are interesting ideas. IIUC, They still seem to leave the
"challenge" of flush-trimming to very thin veneers.

When working with plywood and frameless casework, don't discount iron-on
edge banding.

An iron, and two relatively inexpensive tools, will get you doing
professional looking work in no time:

http://www.tools-plus.com/virutex-au... erm=VIRAU-93

http://www.tools-plus.com/virutex-rc..._term=VIRRC21E

Tip: It is best/more efficient to edge band component edges _before_
assembly/glue-up

A fine ******* file, or sandpaper, can be used, lightly, to dress up the
edges after trimming.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 00:04:33 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 10/25/12 12:47 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:38:02 -0500, -MIKE- wrote:

On 10/25/12 12:24 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
I wouldn't bother covering the exposed edges, I'd figure out some way to
hide them completely. Here's the deal: I tried covering edges with a
piece of wood and then planing it smooth to the face of the plywood.
Some of the plywood was damaged during the planing process, even with the
plane taking a very fine cut.

On a later project, I added a strip of wood to the edge of the plywood
using tongue and groove joinery. This covered the edge of the plywood
nicely, and the difference in height was small enough that a sander took
care of it easily.


I've edged a lot of plywood with solid wood strips.
I use a router with a fat pattern bit and it creates flawless, perfectly
even seems with very little effort. It's much easier and more fail-safe
than planing.

These work nicely, too.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...banding_anchor


I tried that route (pun!) but for it's unnecessary and time consuming. The
strength is in the glue. Unless you're stacking anvils on your shelves,
you don't need that T&G.

I have problems with edge alignment without something to help.
Biscuits didn't.

I know those bits are supposed to help align perfectly, but they don't
always.

Test scraps and a good table/lift.

Besides, if you're going to have to make all those passes with the
router, why not make two quicker passes with a pattern but and have
perfect seems?

Making two accurate passes is easier than one?

It's so much easier to just cut the edge strips a little
proud, glue them on without worrying about perfect alignment, and make a
quick pass on each side.

You have even do the pattern bit cutting on edge on a router table by
making a simple form to hold the shelves 90 perpendicular to the router
table. I actually use my slot/tenon cutting jig from my table saw.

Swingman wrote:
On 10/25/2012 10:12 PM, Bill wrote:

I have several pages of notes and I definitely learned a lot from this
thread!

To stiffen up that casework you posted a model of, capture your vertical
dividers in dadoes instead of using butt joints with biscuits.

I see now that you were either being kind or being sarcastic by your use
of the term "casework". : )



Also capture the ends of the top and floor in dadoes in the top and
bottom of the end panels ... that will strengthen the casework further,
as well as hide the ends of those components.

Yes, I liked that idea as soon as I read it.

I also like the idea of building a base frame--slightly smaller than the
bottom, and floor-levelers.

I had been reading about biscuit joinery today, but now I see you prefer
dadoes for the verticals over butt joints done with biscuits. I suppose
you would attach cabinet face frames with biscuits, and use biscuits
also to help align the bottom to the base frame, huh?

BTW, my wife told me today that she would prefer I make a new coffee
table first. None of this will be wasted, however. I could use biscuits
to afix some drawer frames to a coffee table. I could not of even
written that statement a week ago, so I'm making progress! : )

Cheers,
Bill

P.S. I'll probably work on the TV-stand first anyway. Relieved to find
out they don't cost $1000 (like the jointer and TS I showed her at
Grizzly), I sort of have her budgetary approval for a biscuit
joiner--lol. I know she didn't know what I meant, but I told her I
wasn't planning to buy a green one.

P.P.S. Something that has been troubling me the whole time I've been
working on this post, but I didn't bring it up, was the fine line
between a board fitting ornot fitting into a dadoe grove, particularly
since I'll probably be cutting the grove with a router. Is there a
decent fix for if the dadoe is cut just a little too wide? I know shims
would look tacky, but no one would see them anyway and that would work,
right? When you distribute "a little wide" over 16 inches or so, it
doesn't seem like too much. Maybe I should take my humor over to David
Letterman' Show? It's late.. :-)