Reference "Blade flex?", 12-26-2011.

With the table saw set to rip-mitre 4 x 12" Cherry one-by (8 cuts total) with
blade set at 45 degrees, I'm 98% certain this is what happened:

a.) I rip-mitre'd the first piece feeding it slow and steady, and it smoked
like crazy. I had to disconnect the smoke detector.
b.) I found that if I exerted lots of feed pressure, it wouldn't smoke, so
I finished the rest of it like that. And I no longer got a true (straight)
cut: the blade flexed, and the result was 'waves' in the cut.

Question 1: If the blade is not truly dull, what, aside from the usual pitch,
crud, etc, will make the blade smoke?

Question 2: Which is easier and/or does a better job cleaning a table saw blade?

1.) Shoot with (say) Easy Off Heavy Duty, wait an hour or so, then scrub.
2.) Soak the blade overnite in coal oil (kerosene), wipe clean.

I figure I'll likely use this approach again, that's why I gotta ask.

Thx,
Peetie

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
...

Reference "Blade flex?", 12-26-2011.

With the table saw set to rip-mitre 4 x 12" Cherry one-by (8 cuts total)
with
blade set at 45 degrees, I'm 98% certain this is what happened:

a.) I rip-mitre'd the first piece feeding it slow and steady, and it
smoked
like crazy. I had to disconnect the smoke detector.
b.) I found that if I exerted lots of feed pressure, it wouldn't smoke, so
I finished the rest of it like that. And I no longer got a true
(straight)
cut: the blade flexed, and the result was 'waves' in the cut.

Question 1: If the blade is not truly dull, what, aside from the usual
pitch,
crud, etc, will make the blade smoke?

Question 2: Which is easier and/or does a better job cleaning a table saw
blade?

1.) Shoot with (say) Easy Off Heavy Duty, wait an hour or so, then scrub.
2.) Soak the blade overnite in coal oil (kerosene), wipe clean.

I figure I'll likely use this approach again, that's why I gotta ask.


RE the smoke... it's the cherry. If I feed cherry too slow on my 3 HP
cabinet saw with a sharp and clean Forrest WWII blade I get smoke... gotta
keep it moving as when going slow the friction gets the wood hot which
results in smoke and burn marks. By going the same slow speed with other
woods you will likely not see any smoke.

RE cleaning. I soak in Simple Green over night, brush, rinse, and spray with
WD-40. Good to go even with gooey woods like air dried pine.

John

On Jan 17, 11:03*am, Peetie Wheatstraw
wrote:
Reference "Blade flex?", 12-26-2011.

With the table saw set to rip-mitre 4 x 12" Cherry one-by (8 cuts total) with
blade set at 45 degrees, I'm 98% certain this is what happened:

a.) I rip-mitre'd the first piece feeding it slow and steady, and it smoked
* * like crazy. I had to disconnect the smoke detector.
b.) I found that if I exerted lots of feed pressure, it wouldn't smoke, so
* * I finished the rest of it like that. And I no longer got a true (straight)
* * cut: the blade flexed, and the result was 'waves' in the cut.

Question 1: If the blade is not truly dull, what, aside from the usual pitch,
* * * * * * crud, etc, will make the blade smoke?

Question 2: Which is easier and/or does a better job cleaning a table saw blade?

1.) Shoot with (say) Easy Off Heavy Duty, wait an hour or so, then scrub.
2.) Soak the blade overnite in coal oil (kerosene), wipe clean.

I figure I'll likely use this approach again, that's why I gotta ask.

Thx,
Peetie

The wood is smoking not the blade. Too much heat. Real easy to get
Cherry to burn. Dull blade or weak saw or out of alignment feed or
feeding too slow. I think finding the right feed rate is what you need
to do. If your machine is underpowered you might just burn the wood at
the fastest rate.

Is it a 40 tooth ripping blade? Is this a full kerf blade? A thin kerf
blade will reduce the power consumption significantly and may fix the
issue. Also a coated blade can help and also vibration kerfs like in a
Freud blade can help..

[...snip...]

RE cleaning. I soak in Simple Green over night, brush, rinse, and spray with
WD-40. Good to go even with gooey woods like air dried pine.

John

There are a number of chemicals people use that clean a blade fast.
But many of them are rumored to be bad for carbide or the brazing
attaching the carbide.

Simple Green worked better for me than kerosene. The only problem with
SG is that it might erode the brazing that attaches your carbide to
the blade, according to the manufacturer. They say don't soak the
blade, but spray and wipe is fine (which gets me nowhere with that
product). They also recommend soaking the blade in strong black
coffee, for tough jobs.

I wouldn't mess with caustic oven cleaner, because it is believed to
react chemically with carbide.

I use washing soda (not baking soda) to clean my blades and use WD-40
after, as well, to ensure the metal is dry. Washing soda is fast but
you have to keep it out of your eyes (maybe it's not all that much
safer for your eyes than oven cleaner, I don't know).

Maybe the best solution is to purchase a commercial blade cleaner.
Like CMT Formula 2050, which you spray on and wipe off after a couple
of minutes. There are other brands (Oxisolv, Empire Blade Saver, etc).

"Jim Weisgram" wrote in message
...
[...snip...]

RE cleaning. I soak in Simple Green over night, brush, rinse, and spray
with
WD-40. Good to go even with gooey woods like air dried pine.

John

There are a number of chemicals people use that clean a blade fast.
But many of them are rumored to be bad for carbide or the brazing
attaching the carbide.

Simple Green worked better for me than kerosene. The only problem with
SG is that it might erode the brazing that attaches your carbide to
the blade, according to the manufacturer. They say don't soak the
blade, but spray and wipe is fine (which gets me nowhere with that
product). They also recommend soaking the blade in strong black
coffee, for tough jobs.

I wouldn't mess with caustic oven cleaner, because it is believed to
react chemically with carbide.

I use washing soda (not baking soda) to clean my blades and use WD-40
after, as well, to ensure the metal is dry. Washing soda is fast but
you have to keep it out of your eyes (maybe it's not all that much
safer for your eyes than oven cleaner, I don't know).

Maybe the best solution is to purchase a commercial blade cleaner.
Like CMT Formula 2050, which you spray on and wipe off after a couple
of minutes. There are other brands (Oxisolv, Empire Blade Saver, etc).


Hadn't tried the washing soda.... I have a box of it sitting in my shop that
I mix with other stuff for cleaning things like pressure treated wood. Next
time the blades need cleaning I'll give it a shot. I've got TSP sitting
there too and that will act a paint remover if you soak things in it. I took
the paint off a whole kitchen worth of hardware using TSP... probably work
on blades too! I've probably got about everything for cleaning in powder
form and quarts of a lot of other stuff. Sometimes it's tricky to figure out
what it is I'm trying to remove so a good selection is useful.

John

Question

Has anybody investigated an ultrasonic cleaning process for cutting
blades?

Expense might be an issue.

Lew

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:13:30 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

RE the smoke... it's the cherry. If I feed cherry too slow on my 3 HP
cabinet saw with a sharp and clean Forrest WWII blade I get smoke... gotta
keep it moving as when going slow the friction gets the wood hot which
results in smoke and burn marks. By going the same slow speed with other
woods you will likely not see any smoke.

Hmmmmm. That means that my little "cause" is near hopeless. For what I
was doing, going with a super-slow feed would fill my basement work-shop
with smoke, I could take a week just to cut it all. Going fast with the blade
at 45 degrees resulted in an untrue cut. Damned if I do, and damned if
I don't (feed fast). :-(

Not what I wanted to hear, but I needed to hear it. Any other American
hardwoods burn this easy on a table saw?

RE cleaning. I soak in Simple Green over night, brush, rinse, and spray with
WD-40. Good to go even with gooey woods like air dried pine.

Good enough.

Thanks,
Peetie

Peetie Wheatstraw wrote in
:


Hmmmmm. That means that my little "cause" is near hopeless. For what I
was doing, going with a super-slow feed would fill my basement
work-shop with smoke, I could take a week just to cut it all. Going
fast with the blade at 45 degrees resulted in an untrue cut. Damned if
I do, and damned if I don't (feed fast). :-(

Not what I wanted to hear, but I needed to hear it. Any other American
hardwoods burn this easy on a table saw?

*snip*

You may be able to work around the tool by cutting slightly oversize and
then using another tool such as a jointer or plane to finish the edge.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 1/17/2012 1:03 PM, Peetie Wheatstraw wrote:

Reference "Blade flex?", 12-26-2011.

With the table saw set to rip-mitre 4 x 12" Cherry one-by (8 cuts total) with
blade set at 45 degrees, I'm 98% certain this is what happened:

a.) I rip-mitre'd the first piece feeding it slow and steady, and it smoked
like crazy. I had to disconnect the smoke detector.
b.) I found that if I exerted lots of feed pressure, it wouldn't smoke, so
I finished the rest of it like that. And I no longer got a true (straight)
cut: the blade flexed, and the result was 'waves' in the cut.

Question 1: If the blade is not truly dull, what, aside from the usual pitch,
crud, etc, will make the blade smoke?

Question 2: Which is easier and/or does a better job cleaning a table saw blade?

1.) Shoot with (say) Easy Off Heavy Duty, wait an hour or so, then scrub.
2.) Soak the blade overnite in coal oil (kerosene), wipe clean.

I figure I'll likely use this approach again, that's why I gotta ask.

Thx,
Peetie

Use the product specifically made to clean bits and blades. CMT Formula
2050. Cleans in seconds and is environmentally friendly.

Spray on, let soak in a few seconds and wipe off with a paper towel.

http://www.amazon.com/CMT-Formula-20.../dp/B0006G83W0

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:13:30 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
wrote:

RE the smoke... it's the cherry. If I feed cherry too slow on my 3 HP
cabinet saw with a sharp and clean Forrest WWII blade I get smoke... gotta
keep it moving as when going slow the friction gets the wood hot which
results in smoke and burn marks. By going the same slow speed with other
woods you will likely not see any smoke.

Hmmmmm. That means that my little "cause" is near hopeless. For what I
was doing, going with a super-slow feed would fill my basement work-shop
with smoke, I could take a week just to cut it all. Going fast with the
blade
at 45 degrees resulted in an untrue cut. Damned if I do, and damned if
I don't (feed fast). :-(

Not what I wanted to hear, but I needed to hear it. Any other American
hardwoods burn this easy on a table saw?



Puckdropper's suggestion of cutting a bit oversize and using another tool to
clean up the cut is viable.... I recently cut cherry on an angle and I cut
it just oversize enough to clean it up with a No 5 L-N plane--literally a
few thousandths. I sharpen that plane like a jointer rather than a jack.
That took care of the burn marks and the slight saw marks in a few swipes
across the width of the cut.

Personally, I haven't had this problem with other domestic woods unless it
pinches or I didn't keep it tight to the fence. The Biesemeyer T-Splitter
helps with the pinch problem and with feeding.

John

Is the cherry green? I've never used cherry.


--------
"John Grossbohlin" wrote in message
m...

RE the smoke... it's the cherry. If I feed cherry too slow on my 3 HP
cabinet saw with a sharp and clean Forrest WWII blade I get smoke...
gotta
keep it moving as when going slow the friction gets the wood hot which
results in smoke and burn marks. By going the same slow speed with
other
woods you will likely not see any smoke.

RE cleaning. I soak in Simple Green over night, brush, rinse, and spray
with
WD-40. Good to go even with gooey woods like air dried pine.

John

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:12:26 -0500, "m II" wrote:
Is the cherry green? I've never used cherry.

You *are* a cherry which explains your great need for attention.

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:14:31 -0800 (PST), "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:

The wood is smoking not the blade. Too much heat. Real easy to get
Cherry to burn. Dull blade or weak saw or out of alignment feed or
feeding too slow. I think finding the right feed rate is what you need
to do. If your machine is underpowered you might just burn the wood at
the fastest rate.

It's a $400 (in 1985) Craftsman direct-drive with cast-iron leafs.
I *think* the motor was rated at something like 2 hp.

Is it a 40 tooth ripping blade? Is this a full kerf blade? A thin kerf
blade will reduce the power consumption significantly and may fix the
issue. Also a coated blade can help and also vibration kerfs like in a
Freud blade can help..

Blade is maybe 20 years old, sez stuff like:

Freud 10" Carbide Finishing 40 Tooth
Advanced Anti-Kickback Design

Hit it with oven cleaner years ago, now I can hardly read the markings.
No part #, etc. Cuts a kerf a little under 1/8".

I cut slow and true, it asfixiates (sp?) po' me. With blade at 45 degrees, if
I cut fast (and suppress the smoke), I cut untrue. Maybe there's a workable
compromise between fast and slow. Doesn't look easy to find.


Thanks,
Peetie

Show me your cherry, Davey


-----
"Dave" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 21:12:26 -0500, "m II" wrote:
Is the cherry green? I've never used cherry.

You *are* a cherry which explains your great need for attention.

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:14:31 -0800 (PST), "SonomaProducts.com"
wrote:

The wood is smoking not the blade. Too much heat. Real easy to get
Cherry to burn. Dull blade or weak saw or out of alignment feed or
feeding too slow. I think finding the right feed rate is what you need
to do. If your machine is underpowered you might just burn the wood at
the fastest rate.

It's a $400 (in 1985) Craftsman direct-drive with cast-iron leafs.
I *think* the motor was rated at something like 2 hp.

Is it a 40 tooth ripping blade? Is this a full kerf blade? A thin kerf
blade will reduce the power consumption significantly and may fix the
issue. Also a coated blade can help and also vibration kerfs like in a
Freud blade can help..

Blade is maybe 20 years old, sez stuff like:

Freud 10" Carbide Finishing 40 Tooth
Advanced Anti-Kickback Design


That sounds like the wrong blade for ripping... it sounds like a cross-cut
blade. On a rip cut it cannot clear chips fast enough due to small gullets
and the tooth configuration doesn't chisel out the chips it's trying to
slice them out. That would explain problems on the rip cuts...

John

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:42:50 -0800, Jim Weisgram
wrote:

...
I use washing soda (not baking soda) to clean my blades and use WD-40
after, as well, to ensure the metal is dry. Washing soda is fast but
you have to keep it out of your eyes (maybe it's not all that much
safer for your eyes than oven cleaner, I don't know).
...

I've used washing soda once (for an electrolysis experiment), have
some left. No problem handling it, I'll likely try using it to clean
my blade.

Thanks,
Peetie

On Jan 17, 2:03*pm, Peetie Wheatstraw
wrote:
Reference "Blade flex?", 12-26-2011.

With the table saw set to rip-mitre 4 x 12" Cherry one-by (8 cuts total) with
blade set at 45 degrees, I'm 98% certain this is what happened:

a.) I rip-mitre'd the first piece feeding it slow and steady, and it smoked
* * like crazy. I had to disconnect the smoke detector.
b.) I found that if I exerted lots of feed pressure, it wouldn't smoke, so
* * I finished the rest of it like that. And I no longer got a true (straight)
* * cut: the blade flexed, and the result was 'waves' in the cut.

Question 1: If the blade is not truly dull, what, aside from the usual pitch,
* * * * * * crud, etc, will make the blade smoke?

Question 2: Which is easier and/or does a better job cleaning a table saw blade?

1.) Shoot with (say) Easy Off Heavy Duty, wait an hour or so, then scrub.
2.) Soak the blade overnite in coal oil (kerosene), wipe clean.

I figure I'll likely use this approach again, that's why I gotta ask.

Thx,
Peetie

If it cuts okay with the blade plumb, your trunnions need
shimming.

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:40:37 -0600, Peetie Wheatstraw
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:42:50 -0800, Jim Weisgram
wrote:

...
I use washing soda (not baking soda) to clean my blades and use WD-40
after, as well, to ensure the metal is dry. Washing soda is fast but
you have to keep it out of your eyes (maybe it's not all that much
safer for your eyes than oven cleaner, I don't know).
...

I've used washing soda once (for an electrolysis experiment), have
some left. No problem handling it, I'll likely try using it to clean
my blade.

I keep a quart of Simple Green and a pie tin for cleaning my blades.
It takes about half an hour before ALL the gum and tar wipes right off
without any hesitation. I've reused the solution 3x times without any
deterioration so far, so it's cost effective. I'll run it down my
kitchen sink drain after I'm done with it to see if it can take any of
the plumbing crap out, too.

--
The human brain is unique in that it is the only container of which
it can be said that the more you put into it, the more it will hold.
-- Glenn Doman

On 1/17/2012 7:17 PM, Peetie Wheatstraw wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:14:31 -0800 (PST), wrote:

The wood is smoking not the blade. Too much heat. Real easy to get
Cherry to burn. Dull blade or weak saw or out of alignment feed or
feeding too slow. I think finding the right feed rate is what you need
to do. If your machine is underpowered you might just burn the wood at
the fastest rate.

It's a $400 (in 1985) Craftsman direct-drive with cast-iron leafs.
I *think* the motor was rated at something like 2 hp.

Is it a 40 tooth ripping blade? Is this a full kerf blade? A thin kerf
blade will reduce the power consumption significantly and may fix the
issue. Also a coated blade can help and also vibration kerfs like in a
Freud blade can help..

Blade is maybe 20 years old, sez stuff like:

Freud 10" Carbide Finishing 40 Tooth
Advanced Anti-Kickback Design

Hit it with oven cleaner years ago, now I can hardly read the markings.
No part #, etc. Cuts a kerf a little under 1/8".

I cut slow and true, it asfixiates (sp?) po' me. With blade at 45 degrees, if
I cut fast (and suppress the smoke), I cut untrue. Maybe there's a workable
compromise between fast and slow. Doesn't look easy to find.


Thanks,
Peetie

what about cutting it about 1/2 blade width oversized, then running it
back to cut it to size with the same blade? the 2nd pass will remove
very little extra wood and shouldn't flex.

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 07:57:57 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

what about cutting it about 1/2 blade width oversized, then running it
back to cut it to size with the same blade? the 2nd pass will remove
very little extra wood and shouldn't flex.

Might work if I only needed to rip-mitre one side.

I was leaving maybe 1/8" un-mitred so I could turn the piece around, rip-mitre
the other side with the same fence setup, then round with a router after glue-
up. That wouldn't work with what you suggest.

Thx,
Peetie

On Jan 17, 9:27*pm, Father Haskell wrote:
On Jan 17, 2:03*pm, Peetie Wheatstraw
wrote:





Reference "Blade flex?", 12-26-2011.

With the table saw set to rip-mitre 4 x 12" Cherry one-by (8 cuts total) with
blade set at 45 degrees, I'm 98% certain this is what happened:

a.) I rip-mitre'd the first piece feeding it slow and steady, and it smoked
* * like crazy. I had to disconnect the smoke detector.
b.) I found that if I exerted lots of feed pressure, it wouldn't smoke, so
* * I finished the rest of it like that. And I no longer got a true (straight)
* * cut: the blade flexed, and the result was 'waves' in the cut.

Question 1: If the blade is not truly dull, what, aside from the usual pitch,
* * * * * * crud, etc, will make the blade smoke?

Question 2: Which is easier and/or does a better job cleaning a table saw blade?

1.) Shoot with (say) Easy Off Heavy Duty, wait an hour or so, then scrub.
2.) Soak the blade overnite in coal oil (kerosene), wipe clean.

I figure I'll likely use this approach again, that's why I gotta ask.

Thx,
Peetie

If it cuts okay with the blade plumb, your trunnions need
shimming.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Brilliant!!! Aligned well to the fence at 90 to the table and out of
alignment when healed over to 45. Yup, you saw guts are all
catywampus. Why didn't I think of that. Also explains the "wavy" cut
because it keeps trying to cut along a path but wedges into the fence
and gets forced out, then starts again, etc.

"Father Haskell" wrote in message
...

If it cuts okay with the blade plumb, your trunnions need
shimming.

******************
You're wasting your time. I suggested this back on 31 Dec in a response to
the original post and included a link to a site with details on why and how to
fix. Apparently it fell on deaf ears.
Art

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:14:17 -0800, "Artemus" wrote:

If it cuts okay with the blade plumb, your trunnions need
shimming.

******************
You're wasting your time. I suggested this back on 31 Dec in a response to
the original post and included a link to a site with details on why and how to
fix. Apparently it fell on deaf ears.

I took a look at it. No apparent problem with what you suggest on my TS.

Peetie

"Peetie Wheatstraw" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:14:17 -0800, "Artemus" wrote:

If it cuts okay with the blade plumb, your trunnions need
shimming.

******************
You're wasting your time. I suggested this back on 31 Dec in a response to
the original post and included a link to a site with details on why and how to
fix. Apparently it fell on deaf ears.

I took a look at it. No apparent problem with what you suggest on my TS.

Peetie

What do you mean by apparent? Did you actually measure it? You didn't
want to buy the sites jig, I didn't either, and I suggested you make your own
as it is easy to do. All of your symptoms point to this alignment issue with the
saw.
Art

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 20:17:45 -0600, Peetie Wheatstraw wrote:

It's a $400 (in 1985) Craftsman direct-drive with cast-iron leafs. I
*think* the motor was rated at something like 2 hp.



Blade is maybe 20 years old, sez stuff like:


Freud 10" Carbide Finishing 40 Tooth

You are trolling, right? A direct drive piece of junk with a 20 year old
40 tooth blade? C'mon.

Just in case you aren't trolling:

Sears is notorious for "rated" HP abuse. It takes 745 watts to equal 1hp
without counting losses in the motor. Read the nameplate on the motor
and figure it out.

Direct drive table saws are the cheapest of the cheap. Sometimes
referred to as job site saws.

A 20 year old blade? When was it last sharpened?

A 40 tooth blade is for crosscutting. A rip blade is usually 24 tooth or
thereabouts.

If you can't afford to replace the cheap saw, at least get a good thin
kerf rip blade like:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16429&rrt=1

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 15:31:41 -0800, Artemus wrote:

What do you mean by apparent? Did you actually measure it?

Isn't the OP the same poster who said he had no significant blade runout
but couldn't quantify it? Some people won't take advice.

I have a suspicion he's trolling.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Jan 18, 5:54*pm, Peetie Wheatstraw
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:14:17 -0800, "Artemus" wrote:
If it cuts okay with the blade plumb, your trunnions need
shimming.

******************
You're wasting your time. *I suggested this back on 31 Dec in a response to
the original post and included a link to a site with details on why and how to
fix. *Apparently it fell on deaf ears.

I took a look at it. No apparent problem with what you suggest on my TS.

Peetie

If only one side of the kerf is scorching with the blade tilted,
that's a dead giveaway. If both sides, clean the blade,
sharpen it, or replace it.

On Jan 18, 5:54*pm, Peetie Wheatstraw
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 14:14:17 -0800, "Artemus" wrote:
If it cuts okay with the blade plumb, your trunnions need
shimming.

******************
You're wasting your time. *I suggested this back on 31 Dec in a response to
the original post and included a link to a site with details on why and how to
fix. *Apparently it fell on deaf ears.

I took a look at it. No apparent problem with what you suggest on my TS.

One more possibility -- right or left tilt saw? Which side of the
blade are you using the fence on?