I bought a little plastic electric heater for the shop today. On the
top of the box was the warning: "Caution, do not attempt to burn
firewood or manufactured logs in or on this appliance!"

Sez I, anyone that stupid could not read the warning anyway.
--
Gerald Ross

A few fries short of a Happy Meal.

On 12/28/2011 4:00 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
I bought a little plastic electric heater for the shop today. On the top
of the box was the warning: "Caution, do not attempt to burn firewood or
manufactured logs in or on this appliance!"

Sez I, anyone that stupid could not read the warning anyway.

I saw one in the paper this morning. It was a foreclosure sale. It
read ......Sam Jones and Mary Jones, married, to Sam Johnson.......

I took me a minute to decide who Mary Jones was married to Sam Jones of
Sam Johnson

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:00:29 -0500, Gerald Ross
wrote:

I bought a little plastic electric heater for the shop today. On the
top of the box was the warning: "Caution, do not attempt to burn
firewood or manufactured logs in or on this appliance!"

Sez I, anyone that stupid could not read the warning anyway.

Sez I, anyone that stupid deserves to burn up in the resultant fire.

--
[Television is] the triumph of machine over people.
-- Fred Allen

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 17:29:10 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

On 12/28/2011 4:00 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
I bought a little plastic electric heater for the shop today. On the top
of the box was the warning: "Caution, do not attempt to burn firewood or
manufactured logs in or on this appliance!"

Sez I, anyone that stupid could not read the warning anyway.

I saw one in the paper this morning. It was a foreclosure sale. It
read ......Sam Jones and Mary Jones, married, to Sam Johnson.......

I took me a minute to decide who Mary Jones was married to Sam Jones of
Sam Johnson

Here ya go. More food for thought: http://goo.gl/7r4s0

--
[Television is] the triumph of machine over people.
-- Fred Allen

On Dec 28, 3:00*pm, Gerald Ross wrote:
I bought a little plastic electric heater for the shop today. On the
top of the box was the warning: *"Caution, do not attempt to burn
firewood or manufactured logs in or on this appliance!"

Sez I, anyone that stupid could not read the warning anyway.
--
Gerald Ross

A few fries short of a Happy Meal.

Not legal, but I have been driving past a sign, near a home outside of
Chanute, for a couple of years:

"Burn Barrels, $20 - Your Choice Metal or Plastic"

RonB

Not legal, but I have been driving past a sign, near a home outside of
Chanute, for a couple of years:

"Burn Barrels, $20 - Your Choice Metal or Plastic"

RonB

My favorite sign has always been: "Ears pierced, while you wait".

"I'd like to drop these off and pick them up later..."

-Zz

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:00:29 -0500, Gerald Ross
I bought a little plastic electric heater for the shop today. On the
top of the box was the warning: "Caution, do not attempt to burn
firewood or manufactured logs in or on this appliance!"

Sez I, anyone that stupid could not read the warning anyway.

The problem is, there are people that stupid and worse. Exact same
reason why insurance companies are going bonkers over table saw safety
and Sawstop. No matter how safe you make something, there's alway
someone going to be stupid enough to get around that safety
feature/warning and end up suing someone. All with the able assistance
of some greedy/flakey lawyer.

"Zz Yzx" wrote in message
...

Not legal, but I have been driving past a sign, near a home outside of
Chanute, for a couple of years:

"Burn Barrels, $20 - Your Choice Metal or Plastic"

RonB

My favorite sign has always been: "Ears pierced, while you wait".

"I'd like to drop these off and pick them up later..."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is one a few miles up the road from here on a strait stretch. "No
racing between 3:00 pm and 6:00 pm." I guess race time is 12:00 noon.

On 12/28/2011 9:23 PM, CW wrote:


"Zz Yzx" wrote in message ...

Not legal, but I have been driving past a sign, near a home outside of
Chanute, for a couple of years:

"Burn Barrels, $20 - Your Choice Metal or Plastic"

RonB

My favorite sign has always been: "Ears pierced, while you wait".

"I'd like to drop these off and pick them up later..."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is one a few miles up the road from here on a strait stretch. "No racing
between 3:00 pm and 6:00 pm." I guess race time is 12:00 noon.

There's a place (looks like a junk proprietor to me) not too far from here that
has a sign out front that says "Closed until tomorrow".

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:00:29 -0500, Gerald Ross
I bought a little plastic electric heater for the shop today. On the
top of the box was the warning: "Caution, do not attempt to burn
firewood or manufactured logs in or on this appliance!"

Sez I, anyone that stupid could not read the warning anyway.

The problem is, there are people that stupid and worse. Exact same
reason why insurance companies are going bonkers over table saw safety
and Sawstop. No matter how safe you make something, there's alway
someone going to be stupid enough to get around that safety
feature/warning and end up suing someone. All with the able assistance
of some greedy/flakey lawyer.

If the SawStop rule prevails, how much longer before similar devices are
mandated for drill presses, jointers, planers, or even circular saws or hand
drills?

Of course they'll say "It's for the children," but, really, how many kids
use a planer?

On 12/28/2011 10:59 PM, Steve Turner wrote:

There's a place (looks like a junk proprietor to me) not too far from
here that has a sign out front that says "Closed until tomorrow".

Back when he was still drinking, a friend of mine told me about a sign
on the wall in his favorite tavern: "Free beer tomorrow".

You can probably guess what happens if you show up the next day looking
for a free beer...

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:24:15 -0600, "HeyBub"
If the SawStop rule prevails, how much longer before similar devices are
mandated for drill presses, jointers, planers, or even circular saws or hand
drills?

Possibly not. As far as I know, the vast bulk of missing fingers
happens because of table saws. The rest of the tools while certainly
having the potential for being dangerous, don't have close to the same
statistics when it comes to fingers.

But, if someone comes up with a similar "drillstop" device, who knows?
Unfortunately, the insurance industry has the ability to drive any
number of prevention devices.

On Dec 29, 6:24*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Dave wrote:
........
Of course they'll say "It's for the children," but, really, how many kids
use a planer?

The lawyers and Saw Stop are pretty much taking care of the children.

High school wood programs that have been struggling for years are
backing away from woodworking because of liability issues. Saw Stop
is fueling that fire.

RonB

RonB wrote:


High school wood programs that have been struggling for years are
backing away from woodworking because of liability issues. Saw Stop
is fueling that fire.


Around here those types of programs have been struggling or eliminated in
the school districts, but that's because BOCES came along and filled that
need better than a once a week shop class in the school. Interest in that
kind of thing has fallen off with generations that became more interested in
technology (of all sorts), and less interested in wood working, metal
working, etc. I haven't seen or heard of any decline in the BOCES programs
though - SawStop or no SawStop. Certainly had not heard of any decrease due
to liability reasons.

--

-Mike-

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:01:20 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
need better than a once a week shop class in the school. Interest in that
kind of thing has fallen off with generations that became more interested in
technology (of all sorts), and less interested in wood working, metal
working, etc. I haven't seen or heard of any decline in the BOCES programs
though - SawStop or no SawStop. Certainly had not heard of any decrease due
to liability reasons.

You're absolutely right. Technology has all but supplanted shop class
for many years now, at least in my experience. Sawstop is just one of
the current excuses for why shop classes are almost non existent. It's
a shame too. When shop classes were available, I actually wanted to go
to school.

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:01:20 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
need better than a once a week shop class in the school. Interest
in that kind of thing has fallen off with generations that became
more interested in technology (of all sorts), and less interested in
wood working, metal working, etc. I haven't seen or heard of any
decline in the BOCES programs though - SawStop or no SawStop.
Certainly had not heard of any decrease due to liability reasons.

You're absolutely right. Technology has all but supplanted shop class
for many years now, at least in my experience. Sawstop is just one of
the current excuses for why shop classes are almost non existent. It's
a shame too. When shop classes were available, I actually wanted to go
to school.

It's really a shame too. SawStop - regardless of any legitimate claims that
can be laid at their doorstep, is getting the blame for all kinds of things
that are not even related to it's existance. People are talking about
insurance companies, yet I've not seen any insurance company mandate a
SawStop. People are talking about litigation - hell we live in a litiguous
society that sues over perceived insults. People are talking about shop
classes being eliminated - hell, they've been being eliminated for 15 years
now. You hit it on the head when you used the term "excuses" in your reply.

--

-Mike-

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:24:15 -0600, "HeyBub"
If the SawStop rule prevails, how much longer before similar devices
are mandated for drill presses, jointers, planers, or even circular
saws or hand drills?

Possibly not. As far as I know, the vast bulk of missing fingers
happens because of table saws. The rest of the tools while certainly
having the potential for being dangerous, don't have close to the same
statistics when it comes to fingers.

But, if someone comes up with a similar "drillstop" device, who knows?
Unfortunately, the insurance industry has the ability to drive any
number of prevention devices.

I can hear it now: It starts as a whisper, it rises to a shout, soon it's
heard across the land!

"One injured child is one too many!"

HeyBub wrote:
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:24:15 -0600, "HeyBub"
If the SawStop rule prevails, how much longer before similar devices
are mandated for drill presses, jointers, planers, or even circular
saws or hand drills?

Possibly not. As far as I know, the vast bulk of missing fingers
happens because of table saws. The rest of the tools while certainly
having the potential for being dangerous, don't have close to the
same statistics when it comes to fingers.

But, if someone comes up with a similar "drillstop" device, who
knows? Unfortunately, the insurance industry has the ability to
drive any number of prevention devices.

I can hear it now: It starts as a whisper, it rises to a shout, soon
it's heard across the land!

"One injured child is one too many!"

Nah - Hillary Clinton is off doing other things these days...

--

-Mike-

"Dave" wrote in message news
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:01:20 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
need better than a once a week shop class in the school. Interest in that
kind of thing has fallen off with generations that became more interested
in
technology (of all sorts), and less interested in wood working, metal
working, etc. I haven't seen or heard of any decline in the BOCES programs
though - SawStop or no SawStop. Certainly had not heard of any decrease
due
to liability reasons.

You're absolutely right. Technology has all but supplanted shop class
for many years now, at least in my experience. Sawstop is just one of
the current excuses for why shop classes are almost non existent. It's
a shame too. When shop classes were available, I actually wanted to go
to school.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Woodworking is technology as is welding, machining, casting et.

Mike Marlow wrote:
RonB wrote:


High school wood programs that have been struggling for years are
backing away from woodworking because of liability issues. Saw Stop
is fueling that fire.


Around here those types of programs have been struggling or eliminated in
the school districts, but that's because BOCES came along and filled that
need better than a once a week shop class in the school. Interest in that
kind of thing has fallen off with generations that became more interested in
technology (of all sorts), and less interested in wood working, metal
working, etc. I haven't seen or heard of any decline in the BOCES programs
though - SawStop or no SawStop. Certainly had not heard of any decrease due
to liability reasons.


My ignorance and age is showing. What is BOCES? I haven't learned any
new abbreviations since the WPA.

--
Gerald Ross

A few fries short of a Happy Meal.

On 12/28/2011 1:00 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
I bought a little plastic electric heater for the shop today. On the top
of the box was the warning: "Caution, do not attempt to burn firewood or
manufactured logs in or on this appliance!"

Sez I, anyone that stupid could not read the warning anyway.

Ever read the labels on the white tablets they put in urinals ???

On 12/29/2011 2:19 PM, Gerald Ross wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
RonB wrote:


High school wood programs that have been struggling for years are
backing away from woodworking because of liability issues. Saw Stop
is fueling that fire.


Around here those types of programs have been struggling or eliminated in
the school districts, but that's because BOCES came along and filled that
need better than a once a week shop class in the school. Interest in that
kind of thing has fallen off with generations that became more
interested in
technology (of all sorts), and less interested in wood working, metal
working, etc. I haven't seen or heard of any decline in the BOCES
programs
though - SawStop or no SawStop. Certainly had not heard of any
decrease due
to liability reasons.


My ignorance and age is showing. What is BOCES? I haven't learned any
new abbreviations since the WPA.


I never heard of it either. I copied your question to a search engine
and got this:
http://www.monroe2boces.org/about.cfm?subpage=100
BOCES stands for Board of Cooperative Educational Services. BOCES is a
public organization that was created by the New York State Legislature
in 1948 to provide shared educational programs and services to school
districts.

So RonB gave a very local answer to a very general question.

On 12/29/2011 04:59 PM, Just Wondering wrote:

My ignorance and age is showing. What is BOCES? I haven't learned any
new abbreviations since the WPA.


I never heard of it either. I copied your question to a search engine
and got this:
http://www.monroe2boces.org/about.cfm?subpage=100
BOCES stands for Board of Cooperative Educational Services. BOCES is a
public organization that was created by the New York State Legislature
in 1948 to provide shared educational programs and services to school
districts.

So RonB gave a very local answer to a very general question.

BOCES is a program in NY state that has programs to learn a trade as
well as special education programs for children that the school
districts don't have the resources to help/educate.

http://www.boces.org/wps/portal/BOCESofNYS

After a google search of "B.O.C.E.S. came up with other states that have
incorporated similar programs.

I'm familiar with the NY State program because that is where I grew up.



--
All the Best & 73's
Dale Miller, KC2CBD
Tennessee
Ham Operator since 1997
Member of YahooPipesmokers and ASP since February 2005

Registered Linux User: #317401
Linux since June 2003
Ubuntu User #26423






(cut the spam to reply)


VOTE TO REBUILD!
www.twintowersalliance.com
--

CW wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
news On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:01:20 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
need better than a once a week shop class in the school. Interest
in that kind of thing has fallen off with generations that became
more interested in
technology (of all sorts), and less interested in wood working, metal
working, etc. I haven't seen or heard of any decline in the BOCES
programs though - SawStop or no SawStop. Certainly had not heard of
any decrease due
to liability reasons.

You're absolutely right. Technology has all but supplanted shop class
for many years now, at least in my experience. Sawstop is just one of
the current excuses for why shop classes are almost non existent. It's
a shame too. When shop classes were available, I actually wanted to go
to school.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Woodworking is technology as is welding, machining, casting et.

Insist if you wish, but that's not the way the term is used by most people
today.

--

-Mike-

Just Wondering wrote:


I never heard of it either. I copied your question to a search engine
and got this:
http://www.monroe2boces.org/about.cfm?subpage=100

No you did not. You got that as one of many references to your querie.
Geeze - that google stuff is pretty hard for some people, isn't it?

--

-Mike-

In article ,
says...

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 06:24:15 -0600, "HeyBub"
If the SawStop rule prevails, how much longer before similar devices
are mandated for drill presses, jointers, planers, or even circular
saws or hand drills?

Possibly not. As far as I know, the vast bulk of missing fingers
happens because of table saws. The rest of the tools while certainly
having the potential for being dangerous, don't have close to the same
statistics when it comes to fingers.

But, if someone comes up with a similar "drillstop" device, who knows?
Unfortunately, the insurance industry has the ability to drive any
number of prevention devices.

I can hear it now: It starts as a whisper, it rises to a shout, soon it's
heard across the land!

"One injured child is one too many!"

I've got an idea. Why doesn't somebody make Lawyerstop? And
Politicianstop. Well, actually they did both of those, but their use is
frowned upon.

Dale Miller wrote the following:
On 12/29/2011 04:59 PM, Just Wondering wrote:

My ignorance and age is showing. What is BOCES? I haven't learned any
new abbreviations since the WPA.


I never heard of it either. I copied your question to a search engine
and got this:
http://www.monroe2boces.org/about.cfm?subpage=100
BOCES stands for Board of Cooperative Educational Services. BOCES is a
public organization that was created by the New York State Legislature
in 1948 to provide shared educational programs and services to school
districts.

So RonB gave a very local answer to a very general question.

BOCES is a program in NY state that has programs to learn a trade as
well as special education programs for children that the school
districts don't have the resources to help/educate.

http://www.boces.org/wps/portal/BOCESofNYS

After a google search of "B.O.C.E.S. came up with other states that have
incorporated similar programs.

I'm familiar with the NY State program because that is where I grew up.

"Special Education" may mean something other than what it means in BOCES.

How BOCES works.
Let's say there were 3 schools in a county. Each of the 3 schools teach
woodworking, metal working, and auto mechanics and each will have all
the tools and equipment to teach those subjects.
BOCES came along and decided that this was wasteful spending.
They then had each of the schools teach only one of the subjects.
Students from each of the other schools would be bused to that
particular school that taught that particular subject. It was usually
the last period of the school day.
Instead of the 3 schools having to buy all the equipment necessary to
teach the 3 subjects, they only had to buy the equipment needed for
their one subject.
One of the BOCES classes where I live taught Home Building.
The school bought all the vacant property that surrounded the school.
The students then constructed fully complete houses to be sold.


--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

willshak wrote:


How BOCES works.
Let's say there were 3 schools in a county. Each of the 3 schools
teach woodworking, metal working, and auto mechanics and each will
have all the tools and equipment to teach those subjects.
BOCES came along and decided that this was wasteful spending.
They then had each of the schools teach only one of the subjects.
Students from each of the other schools would be bused to that
particular school that taught that particular subject. It was usually
the last period of the school day.

Perhaps in some district areas, but not in all. In upstate NY, BOCES has
their own centralized locations. Kids are bussed to those locations. The
individual districts just cut those programs. Class time at BOCES is
usually 1/2 day minimum.



--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote the following:
willshak wrote:

How BOCES works.
Let's say there were 3 schools in a county. Each of the 3 schools
teach woodworking, metal working, and auto mechanics and each will
have all the tools and equipment to teach those subjects.
BOCES came along and decided that this was wasteful spending.
They then had each of the schools teach only one of the subjects.
Students from each of the other schools would be bused to that
particular school that taught that particular subject. It was usually
the last period of the school day.

Perhaps in some district areas, but not in all. In upstate NY, BOCES has
their own centralized locations. Kids are bussed to those locations. The
individual districts just cut those programs. Class time at BOCES is
usually 1/2 day minimum.

Back when I went to HS in 1951 through 1955, there were no centralized
BOCES buildings, just the High Schools. BOCES was created in 1948 so
they were still taking baby steps.
My particular HS taught Auto Mechanics under the BOCES program.
You could be right about the half day. I just remember the buses leaving
at the end of the regular school day as I left school. I did not have
any BOCES subjects.



--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

willshak wrote:


Back when I went to HS in 1951 through 1955, there were no centralized
BOCES buildings, just the High Schools. BOCES was created in 1948 so
they were still taking baby steps.
My particular HS taught Auto Mechanics under the BOCES program.
You could be right about the half day. I just remember the buses
leaving at the end of the regular school day as I left school. I did
not have any BOCES subjects.

Yup - it did change over time. Like you, I did not take any BOCES subjects.
I did have the traditional shop classses available to me, but only took wood
and electrical.

--

-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote the following:
willshak wrote:

Back when I went to HS in 1951 through 1955, there were no centralized
BOCES buildings, just the High Schools. BOCES was created in 1948 so
they were still taking baby steps.
My particular HS taught Auto Mechanics under the BOCES program.
You could be right about the half day. I just remember the buses
leaving at the end of the regular school day as I left school. I did
not have any BOCES subjects.

Yup - it did change over time. Like you, I did not take any BOCES subjects.
I did have the traditional shop classses available to me, but only took wood
and electrical.


I took Wood Shop (on topic :-)), Metal shop, and Mechanical Drawing
(drafting)in HS.
The Metal Shop and Mechanical Drawing helped me in the Navy when I
joined after HS in July 1955. I was a Metalsmith. Anything having to do
with metal, except plumbing or machinery, was my job. The Mechanical
drawing helped me out when designing new air ducts. Plumbing was the job
of the Pipefitters.
Damage Controlmen took care of the wood stuff. At General Quarters, all
3 ratings took care of keeping the ship afloat and were part of the
ship's Romeo Division.
The Metalsmith rating is now called Hull Technician.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

"willshak" wrote:


Back when I went to HS in 1951 through 1955, there were no
centralized BOCES buildings, just the High Schools.
------------------------------
Those were the good years.

Lew

willshak wrote:


I took Wood Shop (on topic :-)), Metal shop, and Mechanical Drawing
(drafting)in HS.

Ok - you shook some cobwebs out... I took Metal Shop (more like tin
knocking - hammer out an ashtray), and Mechanical Drawing as well, though
Mechanical Drawing was not something that moved to BOCES when it took over.



--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Ok - you shook some cobwebs out... I took Metal Shop (more like tin
knocking - hammer out an ashtray

.....or shoot bullets at it!

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
b.com...


"willshak" wrote:


Back when I went to HS in 1951 through 1955, there were no centralized
BOCES buildings, just the High Schools.
------------------------------
Those were the good years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll take your word for it. My age was expressed in negative numbers at that
time.

Mike Marlow wrote the following:
willshak wrote:

I took Wood Shop (on topic :-)), Metal shop, and Mechanical Drawing
(drafting)in HS.

Ok - you shook some cobwebs out... I took Metal Shop (more like tin
knocking - hammer out an ashtray),

I remember soldering some crap. I don't remember any one thing that I
built. I don't remember doing any oxy/acetylene or electric welding
either, or even if they had them.
In Woodshop, I built a Navy muzzle loading cannon (I still have what's
left of it).


and Mechanical Drawing as well, though
Mechanical Drawing was not something that moved to BOCES when it took over.





--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

willshak wrote the following:
Mike Marlow wrote the following:
willshak wrote:

I took Wood Shop (on topic :-)), Metal shop, and Mechanical Drawing
(drafting)in HS.

Ok - you shook some cobwebs out... I took Metal Shop (more like tin
knocking - hammer out an ashtray),

I remember soldering some crap. I don't remember any one thing that I
built. I don't remember doing any oxy/acetylene or electric welding
either, or even if they had them.
In Woodshop, I built a Navy muzzle loading cannon (I still have what's
left of it).

Oh, and a wooden cutting board maybe 12" x 6" x 3/8". It looked like a
paddle with a hole for hanging in the handle. It was suitable for
slicing things the size of strawberries and not much else. My mother
still had it up until her death 5 years ago. My sister has it now, but
it's just stored away somewhere.



and Mechanical Drawing as well, though
Mechanical Drawing was not something that moved to BOCES when it took
over.







--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @