While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.

House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the
house's history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses? Based
upon looking at my closet which is neither smoothe nor stippled, I'm
guessing the answer is maybe! I read that they stopped allowing
asbestos in "ceiling compounds" in 1977.

Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test
on the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's
not what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in
Indianapolis that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to
proceed. I am considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house
in 2 separate samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!

Bill

"Bill" wrote in message
...
While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11 fluorescent
fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and screw
my lights and EMT conduit up.

That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.


House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the house's
history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?

Yes, it was very popular about that time.



Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test on
the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.

In my house, we got rid of that crap before the asbestos scare stuff
started. Wipe it down with water that has a few drops of detergent in it.
They when it softens a bit, just scrape it off. Messy, but works. The
ceilings look a lot better now.

Asbestos is only a problem when in dust form and you breath it. It is in
miniscule amounts in the ceilings. It can be disposed of in a bag in the
landfill. If you have it tested and have a pro do the job, you are looking
at thousands of dollars.

In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
the rest.


For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's not
what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in Indianapolis
that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. I am
considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house in 2 separate
samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!

I'd not do any testing, I'd just get rid of it. Scraped while damp is save
enough. If it is gone, there will be no disclosure issues down the road.
People panic over stuff like that, for no good reason. If it is painted
over, any asbestos is considered encapsulated and safe.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote in message
...
While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11 fluorescent
fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and screw
my lights and EMT conduit up.

That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.


House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the house's
history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?

Yes, it was very popular about that time.



Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test on
the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.

In my house, we got rid of that crap before the asbestos scare stuff
started. Wipe it down with water that has a few drops of detergent in it.
They when it softens a bit, just scrape it off. Messy, but works. The
ceilings look a lot better now.

Asbestos is only a problem when in dust form and you breath it. It is in
miniscule amounts in the ceilings. It can be disposed of in a bag in the
landfill. If you have it tested and have a pro do the job, you are looking
at thousands of dollars.

In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
the rest.


For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's not
what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in Indianapolis
that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. I am
considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house in 2 separate
samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!

I'd not do any testing, I'd just get rid of it. Scraped while damp is save
enough. If it is gone, there will be no disclosure issues down the road.
People panic over stuff like that, for no good reason. If it is painted
over, any asbestos is considered encapsulated and safe.

I agree with Ed, and here's another reason. If you test and it is
positive, then you have legal obligations that could come back and
bite you--If you decide to remove it you are supposed to hire an
expensive expert to do it. If you sell the house you are obligated to
give full disclosure, and that may scare some people.

--
Gerald Ross

It doesn't *take* all kinds, we just
*have* all kinds.

Bill wrote:
While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.

House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little
thicker than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know
the house's history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?
Based upon looking at my closet which is neither smoothe nor
stippled, I'm guessing the answer is maybe! I read that they stopped
allowing asbestos in "ceiling compounds" in 1977.

Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos
test on the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything
differently. For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple
down, but that's not what I had planned. I found names of couple
companies in Indianapolis that perform such tests, but I'm not
exactly sure how to proceed. I am considering sampling the garage
and the rest of the house in 2 separate samples, just so I know. Your
advice is welcome!

Point #1:
DO NOT TEST. If positive, you are required to disclose to any prospective
buyer that your house was contaminated with a toxic chemical.

That you did not know, nor should have known, is an affirmative defense.

Point #2
Commercial products containing asbestos are not known to be hazardous. In
your case, asbestos is a superb fire retardant. Leave it alone.

On 8/2/2011 4:07 AM, Bill wrote:

Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test
on the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.

Simply don't sand it and you will be fine.

The advice that only an idiot would have it tested is operative.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote in message
...
While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent
fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw
my lights and EMT conduit up.

That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.


House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the
house's
history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?

Yes, it was very popular about that time.



Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test
on
the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.

In my house, we got rid of that crap before the asbestos scare stuff
started. Wipe it down with water that has a few drops of detergent in it.
They when it softens a bit, just scrape it off. Messy, but works. The
ceilings look a lot better now.

Asbestos is only a problem when in dust form and you breath it. It is in
miniscule amounts in the ceilings. It can be disposed of in a bag in the
landfill. If you have it tested and have a pro do the job, you are
looking
at thousands of dollars.

In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
the rest.


For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's
not
what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in Indianapolis
that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to proceed. I am
considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house in 2 separate
samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!

I'd not do any testing, I'd just get rid of it. Scraped while damp is
save
enough. If it is gone, there will be no disclosure issues down the road.
People panic over stuff like that, for no good reason. If it is painted
over, any asbestos is considered encapsulated and safe.

I agree with Ed, and here's another reason. If you test and it is
positive, then you have legal obligations that could come back and
bite you--If you decide to remove it you are supposed to hire an
expensive expert to do it. If you sell the house you are obligated to
give full disclosure, and that may scare some people.


================

I guess you would realize the seriousness of asbestos.

It's a miserable, long, death. Handle appropriately with the room sealed off
and only negative ventilation and **proper** breathing apparatus, not a dust
mask.

While I agree with the *alerting the process* and cost comments it would be
nice to know the level of seriousness to get involved with.

Best of luck.

--

Eric

Eric wrote the following:


"Gerald Ross" wrote in message
...

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote in message
...
While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent
fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife
and screw
my lights and EMT conduit up.

That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.


House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little
thicker
than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the
house's
history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses?

Yes, it was very popular about that time.



Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos
test on
the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.

In my house, we got rid of that crap before the asbestos scare stuff
started. Wipe it down with water that has a few drops of detergent
in it.
They when it softens a bit, just scrape it off. Messy, but works. The
ceilings look a lot better now.

Asbestos is only a problem when in dust form and you breath it. It
is in
miniscule amounts in the ceilings. It can be disposed of in a bag in
the
landfill. If you have it tested and have a pro do the job, you are
looking
at thousands of dollars.

In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and
leave
the rest.


For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but
that's not
what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in Indianapolis
that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to proceed.
I am
considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house in 2
separate
samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!

I'd not do any testing, I'd just get rid of it. Scraped while damp
is save
enough. If it is gone, there will be no disclosure issues down the
road.
People panic over stuff like that, for no good reason. If it is painted
over, any asbestos is considered encapsulated and safe.

I agree with Ed, and here's another reason. If you test and it is
positive, then you have legal obligations that could come back and
bite you--If you decide to remove it you are supposed to hire an
expensive expert to do it. If you sell the house you are obligated to
give full disclosure, and that may scare some people.


================

I guess you would realize the seriousness of asbestos.

It's a miserable, long, death. Handle appropriately with the room
sealed off and only negative ventilation and **proper** breathing
apparatus, not a dust mask.

While I agree with the *alerting the process* and cost comments it
would be nice to know the level of seriousness to get involved with.

Best of luck.

--

Eric


The question is, what would Eric do?
1. Heed the advise about wetting and scraping?
2. Call in the EPA and spend thousands of $$$ to remove it?

I was a metalsmith in the US Navy in the late 1950s.
One of my jobs was to extend the heating and AC ducts in my 1948 built
Heavy Cruiser.
This required that I remove the asbestos covering on existent ducts to
add more ductwork to other compartments.
There was no asbestos scare at the time so there was no masks or
protective clothing involved. The stuff was just cut off and scraped clean.
After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
ductwork.
I was in my late teens at the time.
I also have been a smoker since then.
I'm 73 now.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:49:55 -0400, willshak
wrote:
After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
ductwork.
I was in my late teens at the time.
I also have been a smoker since then.
I'm 73 now.

You know, this crap is the standard line I hear all the time. And,
****es me off. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones. Or, maybe it just
hasn't caught up with you yet. But, just once in your life consider
the thousands who weren't so lucky. Obviously, you've never been close
to someone dying of lung cancer, or malignant mesothelioma? Else, why
would you spout such crap. Do you have any idea what kind of suffering
they go through?

I've had to watch helplessly as my father died of lung cancer, my
mother die of colon cancer and a very close friend die of
melanoma.They were terrible deaths and not something I'd wish on
anyone, not even arrogant mouthpieces like you.

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
The question is, what would Eric do?
1. Heed the advise about wetting and scraping?
2. Call in the EPA and spend thousands of $$$ to remove it?

I was a metalsmith in the US Navy in the late 1950s.
One of my jobs was to extend the heating and AC ducts in my 1948 built
Heavy Cruiser.
This required that I remove the asbestos covering on existent ducts to
add more ductwork to other compartments.
There was no asbestos scare at the time so there was no masks or
protective clothing involved. The stuff was just cut off and scraped clean.
After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
ductwork.
I was in my late teens at the time.
I also have been a smoker since then.
I'm 73 now.

-------

I handled asbestos, as a kid on several occasions and never had any
problems, either.

Just because I have cross the road my whole life doesn't mean I should close
my eyes 'cause nothing is going to happen.

The stuff is dangerous and the results are terrible should you be one of the
unlucky ones. The subject is not up for debate anymore.

--

Eric

"Eric" wrote

I guess you would realize the seriousness of asbestos.

It's a miserable, long, death. Handle appropriately with the room sealed
off and only negative ventilation and **proper** breathing apparatus, not
a dust mask.

While I agree with the *alerting the process* and cost comments it would
be nice to know the level of seriousness to get involved with.

Best of luck.

It is well known that the ceiling coatings are not very hazardous and the
amount of asbestos is rather low. Wet and scrape. Wipe down with a wet
sponge after.

A couple of years ago, it was determined that a nearly 100 year old school
has asbestos on the ceilings. This became known after test results came in
during normal school hours. What to do? Have an emergency evacuation.
Same as you would do if the building was on fire.

No matter that in 100 years, no one ever had a problem, don't let the kids
finish out the day in those hazardous classrooms. EVACUATE ! EVACUATE !
EVACUATE !

The asbestos, of course, was well encapsulated under layers of paint. A
little knowledge and common sense goes a long way.

"Stuart" wrote in message ...
So is death due to COPD, caused by smoking.

(I watched my father slowly dying from this over several years and it
wasn't very nice)

-----

I watched my brother die of mesothelioma from a summer job, light exposure
in the late 60s. He wasn't involved in maintenance or handling of asbestos,
just working in a room with dust from boilers in need of repair.

"Several years"? Try 25 years of having pleura sacs drained with a 6" needle
between your ribs for months each year and living on rotating antibiotics IV
for 15 years, wondering WTF is happening to you, until they took him apart
to delete the liquid retention places. They know more about this horrible
disease now and it should be diagnosed much quicker. He became the longest
living case after diagnosis after the time. He lived another five years.

Suggesting somebody ignore the cautions and procedures is an ignorant,
careless and immature comment. The well established danger is not even up
for debate anymore.

--

Eric

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message
...
While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.

That works. Dampen it first if you want to keep dust down.


Thank you Ed, and everyone else to who provided me with advise in
this thead! It is valuable to me now, and it will be in the future too!

By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this
change the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray
bottle likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...

As far as my light fixtures, I plan to make an open ended box-shaped
template of the appropriate size. I can draw pencil lines, spray through
the box, clean up the openings, and paint 'em up. I'm sure it will be
great fun (lol)! Actually, working in such a systematic fashion
will probably help me complete the job quicker.

Bill

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 11:49:55 -0400, willshak
wrote:
After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
ductwork.
I was in my late teens at the time.
I also have been a smoker since then.
I'm 73 now.

You know, this crap is the standard line I hear all the time. And,
****es me off. Perhaps you're one of the lucky ones. Or, maybe it just
hasn't caught up with you yet. But, just once in your life consider
the thousands who weren't so lucky. Obviously, you've never been close
to someone dying of lung cancer, or malignant mesothelioma? Else, why
would you spout such crap. Do you have any idea what kind of suffering
they go through?

I've had to watch helplessly as my father died of lung cancer, my
mother die of colon cancer and a very close friend die of
melanoma.They were terrible deaths and not something I'd wish on
anyone, not even arrogant mouthpieces like you.

Dave - he's not responsible for those deaths.

--

-Mike-

On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 01:16:43 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Dave - he's not responsible for those deaths.

Of course he's not responsible for those deaths. He's only responsible
for his callous dismissal of the dangers associated with asbestos and
smoking. And, if he has children that smoke, then his outlook is
morally related to any smoking related illnesses they might encounter
later in life.

In article ,
Eric wrote:

Suggesting somebody ignore the cautions and procedures is an ignorant,
careless and immature comment. The well established danger is not even
up for debate anymore.

I'm not suggesting for one moment that risks be ignored, just that they be
put in perspective.

Note my comment:
"Don't perform any operation that might cause fine dust".

"just working in a room with dust from boilers in need of repair."

*** JUST? ***

For /how/ many weeks in the summer?

--
Stuart Winsor

"Bill" wrote

By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this change
the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray bottle
likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...


Spray bottle with water and a bit of detergent. Scrape, then you can wipe
with a wet sponge to clear off any residue. You may not have to since the
light fixture will cover it anyway. There should be not flying dust.

Asbestos aside, you don't want to inhale any dust, thus the wetting. Makes
it easier to scrape also.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Bill" wrote

By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this
change the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray
bottle likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...


Spray bottle with water and a bit of detergent. Scrape, then you can
wipe with a wet sponge to clear off any residue. You may not have to
since the light fixture will cover it anyway. There should be not flying
dust.

Asbestos aside, you don't want to inhale any dust, thus the wetting.
Makes it easier to scrape also.

Okay. Thank you.

Bill

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in
:

A little knowledge and common sense goes a long way.

But, but, the lowliest janitor in the VA Hospital told me that common sense
was a misnomer, because it was so uncommon.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

In article ,
says...

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
The question is, what would Eric do?
1. Heed the advise about wetting and scraping?
2. Call in the EPA and spend thousands of $$$ to remove it?

I was a metalsmith in the US Navy in the late 1950s.
One of my jobs was to extend the heating and AC ducts in my 1948 built
Heavy Cruiser.
This required that I remove the asbestos covering on existent ducts to
add more ductwork to other compartments.
There was no asbestos scare at the time so there was no masks or
protective clothing involved. The stuff was just cut off and scraped clean.
After adding more ducts, I installed new asbestos covering to the new
ductwork.
I was in my late teens at the time.
I also have been a smoker since then.
I'm 73 now.

-------

I handled asbestos, as a kid on several occasions and never had any
problems, either.

Just because I have cross the road my whole life doesn't mean I should close
my eyes 'cause nothing is going to happen.

The stuff is dangerous and the results are terrible should you be one of the
unlucky ones. The subject is not up for debate anymore.

That it's dangerous, no. That removing some stipple that may or may not
contain it from your own ceiling cannot be done safely without calling
in a hazmat team? That's a bit more debatable.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400, Bill
wrote:

While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.

Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U


House built in '72, has "stipple" ceilings in every room
including the garage. The stipple in the garage looks a little thicker
than the stuff in the rest of the house. I don't really know the
house's history. Did they used to stipple newly built houses? Based
upon looking at my closet which is neither smoothe nor stippled, I'm
guessing the answer is maybe! I read that they stopped allowing
asbestos in "ceiling compounds" in 1977.

Yes, they popcorned most ceilings in the 60s and 70s, but never
closets.


Now I'm concerned as to whether (and how) I need to do an asbestos test
on the ceiling material or whether I need to do anything differently.
For instance, I could paint where I knock the stipple down, but that's
not what I had planned. I found names of couple companies in
Indianapolis that perform such tests, but I'm not exactly sure how to
proceed. I am considering sampling the garage and the rest of the house
in 2 separate samples, just so I know. Your advice is welcome!

Caution: Should you truly feel the need to know whether or not it has
that ghastlyhorriblenastyassevil "asbestos" stuff in it and discover
that it -does-, your house will be marked by the PTBs, invaded by the
EPA, and it will cost many thousands of dollars to have it removed by
some poor souls who jumped through all the hoops and became licensed
to deal with that ghastlyhorriblenastyassevil "asbestos" stuff. (Ditto
lead.)

I've never felt the need to know, myself. Just Say NO! wink

P.S: Over 90% of all the asbestos mined was of a non-lethal type and
victims were almost entirely those who worked in the mines for 30
years without respirators. Do the research and join me in shaking your
head in disbelief at what the lawyers have done to this country.

--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:02:25 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
the rest.

If he ever does any finishing in there, he'll rue the day he left any
popcorn on the ceiling to fall into it. Douche it all now!

--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

Caution: Should you truly feel the need to know whether or not it has
that ghastlyhorriblenastyassevil "asbestos" stuff in it and discover
that it -does-, your house will be marked by the PTBs, invaded by the
EPA, and it will cost many thousands of dollars to have it removed by
some poor souls who jumped through all the hoops and became licensed
to deal with that ghastlyhorriblenastyassevil "asbestos" stuff. (Ditto
lead.)

Perhaps the company was certified, but the poor non-English-speking Eastern
European "slaves" who did the asbestos removal in the Manhattan VA many
years back could have or were definitely contaminated.

DAMHIKT, and IANAL

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:02:25 -0400, "Ed
wrote:

In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
the rest.

If he ever does any finishing in there, he'll rue the day he left any
popcorn on the ceiling to fall into it. Douche it all now!

Larry, Please don't hesitate to think up new projects for me! I'm
having a hard time keep up as it is! : )

Bill


--
Win first, Fight later.

--martial principle of the Samurai

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400,
wrote:

While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.

Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U

Wow, that was a much better video than I expected!
This one is pretty good too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmj...1&feature=fvwp

Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )

Bill

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


The asbestos, of course, was well encapsulated under layers of paint. A
little knowledge and common sense goes a long way.

In this age of sensationalism and alarmism both of those are in very
short supply. Especially when it comes to the elected people who
make the laws.
Art

Dave wrote the following:
On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 01:16:43 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

Dave - he's not responsible for those deaths.


Of course he's not responsible for those deaths. He's only responsible
for his callous dismissal of the dangers associated with asbestos and
smoking. And, if he has children that smoke, then his outlook is
morally related to any smoking related illnesses they might encounter
later in life.

My point is that you don't have to get the EPA involved in every scare.
You don't have to call the EPA to remove some encapsulated asbestos
ceiling if you take the proper precautions, like wearing a dust mask and
wetting the ceiling before scraping off .
The people most affected by asbestos are the workers in the
manufacturing plants.
Black lung is a disease mostly affecting coal miners, not people with
coal stoves and furnaces.
You don't have to call in the EPA when you break a fluorescent bulb.
Now, you can call me any names or question my intelligence, but I will
not act in kind.
My younger brother died of esophageal cancer and he didn't smoke. He
went from 220 lbs to less than a 100 before he died. Who or what do I
blame for that?



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Bill wrote the following:
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400,
wrote:

While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.

Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U

Wow, that was a much better video than I expected!
This one is pretty good too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmj...1&feature=fvwp

Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )

Bill

When the plasterboard finishers in my newly constructed home, built in
1984, the spackle guy asked me if I wanted to have a 'swirled finish' on
the LR and DR ceilings. Of course, we said OK.
He told us it would cost a little extra and we agreed. He used an old
wallpaper brush to do the swirling.
Many of you know that it takes about 3 days to do a proper spackling
job, depending upon the relative humidity.
1st coat one day, sand and second coat the second day, finish sand the
third day.
We paid extra to eliminate the second and third day for the spackling
finishing on the LR and DR ceilings.
We did learn a lesson though. I watched the guy swirl the ceiling and
did some more ceilings in the house myself.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"willshak" wrote in message
m...

Dave wrote the following:
On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 01:16:43 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
Dave - he's not responsible for those deaths.


Of course he's not responsible for those deaths. He's only responsible
for his callous dismissal of the dangers associated with asbestos and
smoking. And, if he has children that smoke, then his outlook is
morally related to any smoking related illnesses they might encounter
later in life.

My point is that you don't have to get the EPA involved in every scare.
You don't have to call the EPA to remove some encapsulated asbestos
ceiling if you take the proper precautions, like wearing a dust mask and
wetting the ceiling before scraping off .
The people most affected by asbestos are the workers in the
manufacturing plants.
Black lung is a disease mostly affecting coal miners, not people with
coal stoves and furnaces.
You don't have to call in the EPA when you break a fluorescent bulb.
Now, you can call me any names or question my intelligence, but I will
not act in kind.
My younger brother died of esophageal cancer and he didn't smoke. He
went from 220 lbs to less than a 100 before he died. Who or what do I
blame for that?



==================

....and the best advice is

DO NOT TAKE THE ADVICE ONLINE from CASUAL AQUAINTANCES WHEN IT COMES TO LIFE
THREATENING DECISIONS.

Get real advice from a professional that can be trusted.

--

Eric

On 8/3/2011 5:25 PM, Eric wrote:


Get real advice from a professional that can be trusted.

He already has ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Eric" wrote in message
...



...and the best advice is

DO NOT TAKE THE ADVICE ONLINE from CASUAL AQUAINTANCES WHEN IT COMES TO LIFE
THREATENING DECISIONS.

Get real advice from a professional that can be trusted.
--
Eric


Where can I find a "professional", who doesn't have a vested
interest in making money off of me, that I can trust?

Where can I find a "professional", who isn't afraid of being sued
by a flock of lawyers, that I can trust?
Art

"Bill" wrote in message ...
This one is pretty good too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmj...1&feature=fvwp

Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )

Bill

========

It may be worth your while to attempt to follow the`advice in the video you
supplied a`link to.

They sent a sample to a nearby EPA testing lab for asbestos verification
with no reservations and no fire alarms went off as suggested. I doubt you
live in a place of employment that all these fear mongers concerns may
apply. You would know how much precaution to take and feel much safer
knowing it is or isn't.

Finding out where and how may be another thing, though.

Be sure and be safe!

--

Eric

Eric wrote:


Be sure and be safe!

Or... simply quit being an alarmist and follow the published guidelines for
homeowners. It's really pretty clear.

--

-Mike-

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:03:37 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:02:25 -0400, "Ed
wrote:

In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
the rest.

If he ever does any finishing in there, he'll rue the day he left any
popcorn on the ceiling to fall into it. Douche it all now!

Larry, Please don't hesitate to think up new projects for me! I'm
having a hard time keep up as it is! : )

I'm trying to eliminate the need for the AR analyzer to get involved
and just let you do your projects, eh?

Didja watch the video of the Blob falling from the ceiling? Cool, wot?

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:22:14 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400,
wrote:

While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.

Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U

Wow, that was a much better video than I expected!
This one is pretty good too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmj...1&feature=fvwp

They took down the plastic too soon. (see below)


Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )

Yeah, one of my favorite things to do. Kinda like shoveling gravel.

But after the scraping (and allowing it to dry thoroughly) all you
really need to do is sand the entire ceiling. That doesn't take all
that long with an extension pole, so figure an hour for that. Now
texture it (Eek! Hire that out.) paint it, and put up those light
fixtures. All done by Christmas!

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

"Bill" wrote

Thank you Ed, and everyone else to who provided me with advise in
this thead! It is valuable to me now, and it will be in the future too!

By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this
change the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray
bottle likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...

As far as my light fixtures, I plan to make an open ended box-shaped
template of the appropriate size. I can draw pencil lines, spray through
the box, clean up the openings, and paint 'em up. I'm sure it will be
great fun (lol)! Actually, working in such a systematic fashion
will probably help me complete the job quicker.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure why you are making this complicated, like you are-and have
done on other projects.

Step one- use a 3/4" roller, and paint the whole ceiling with white stain
blocker paint. I suggest this step, because after I sprayed popcorn on my
older house ceiling, brown stains bled through any place there was not joint
compound under the paint. You will do the whole ceiling just as fast as
painting only under the location of the lights as you are suggesting. The
fresh white will reflect more light and be a fresh new look for your old
ceiling.

Step two- put up your lights and conduit. If you are worried about the
ceiling stipple breaking loose, put a little caulk on the part you are
screwing to the ceiling. It will make a flat base for what you are putting
up, and keep the possible asbestos from breaking free. Don't need to scrape
any place, this way. Do not finish tightening the screws until the caulk
dries, if it is not level enough for you when you tighten it all the way
first.

I would strongly advise that you cut some 1/2" to 3/4" pieces of conduit to
act as standoffs, to hold the light off the ceiling. Put the spacers up and
run the screw through the light then the spacers, and the light will be much
cooler, and last longer, and eliminate the possibility of the light
overheating and cutting off. This will also make it easy so the light will
only have a few points of contact of the spacers against the ceiling. This
is an (old school) trick. You can use a pipe cutter for making spacers
easy. Just don't use a pipe cutter for cutting the emt conduit, because of
the sharp edge a pipe cutter will leave on the inside.

-- Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Bill" wrote

Thank you Ed, and everyone else to who provided me with advise in
this thead! It is valuable to me now, and it will be in the future too!

By the way, if the stipple has a thin coat of paint on it does this
change the way you have to go about dampening it? That is, is a spray
bottle likely to go it? I presume with a bit of patience...

As far as my light fixtures, I plan to make an open ended box-shaped
template of the appropriate size. I can draw pencil lines, spray through
the box, clean up the openings, and paint 'em up. I'm sure it will be
great fun (lol)! Actually, working in such a systematic fashion
will probably help me complete the job quicker.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am not sure why you are making this complicated, like you are-and have
done on other projects.

Step one- use a 3/4" roller, and paint the whole ceiling with white
stain blocker paint. I suggest this step, because after I sprayed
popcorn on my older house ceiling, brown stains bled through any place
there was not joint compound under the paint. You will do the whole
ceiling just as fast as painting only under the location of the lights
as you are suggesting. The fresh white will reflect more light and be a
fresh new look for your old ceiling.


Jim,

I Was planning to paint the whole ceiling. I mentioned painting my
"cutouts" above for the sake of sealing them. As you suggest, this is
certainly not necessary if I'm prepared to paint the ceiling at the same
time. An abundance of "stuff" makes even marking the places for the all
of the lights a bit of a challenge because I have everything moved aways
from ALL of the walls.

Your post contains some excellent suggestions! I've already printed it out.

BTW, I don't make things complicated on purpose. One of the lessons I
learned from by mobile base project was not to make my tolerences too
small: The specifications of the height of the castors did not incude
their 1/8" frame, 3" bolts do not include the thickness of their heads,
and even 2by4 lumber can't be depended upon to be of any size, let alone
2by8 lumber! Lesson gained! I have to give you all of the credit for
teaching me about the mechanics of such mobile bases. I am pleased to
tell you it came out pretty good and I will put a picture on my web page
to show you after things are "tidied up".

Well, admittedly, I did complicate the mobile base project with
"routing" on purpose. I wanted a "free lesson" in using my router for
the first time. I received a very good lesson out of it too. I had a
chance to make a few mistakes, and correct them. Many router projects
wouldn't permit me a chance to re-route.

If you see me making something more complicated then I should, feel free
to point it out! Thank you for your suggestions on my lighting and in
general. I appreciate it!

Bill




Step two- put up your lights and conduit. If you are worried about the
ceiling stipple breaking loose, put a little caulk on the part you are
screwing to the ceiling. It will make a flat base for what you are
putting up, and keep the possible asbestos from breaking free. Don't
need to scrape any place, this way. Do not finish tightening the screws
until the caulk dries, if it is not level enough for you when you
tighten it all the way first.

I would strongly advise that you cut some 1/2" to 3/4" pieces of conduit
to act as standoffs, to hold the light off the ceiling. Put the spacers
up and run the screw through the light then the spacers, and the light
will be much cooler, and last longer, and eliminate the possibility of
the light overheating and cutting off. This will also make it easy so
the light will only have a few points of contact of the spacers against
the ceiling. This is an (old school) trick. You can use a pipe cutter
for making spacers easy. Just don't use a pipe cutter for cutting the
emt conduit, because of the sharp edge a pipe cutter will leave on the
inside.

-- Jim in NC

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:03:37 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 06:02:25 -0400, "Ed
wrote:

In the garage, I'd probably just get rid of where the lights are and leave
the rest.

If he ever does any finishing in there, he'll rue the day he left any
popcorn on the ceiling to fall into it. Douche it all now!

Larry, Please don't hesitate to think up new projects for me! I'm
having a hard time keep up as it is! : )

I'm trying to eliminate the need for the AR analyzer to get involved
and just let you do your projects, eh?

Didja watch the video of the Blob falling from the ceiling? Cool, wot?

Well, the stuff appears to come off Much easier than I would have
supposed! Your comment about the stipple ruining the finishing is
better-taken now too. At first, it just sounded like more work!



--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Eric wrote:

Finding out where and how may be another thing, though.

Be sure and be safe!

--

Eric


I'll act in a safe manner and be safe!
I treat all guns as loaded. I'm not least bit afraid of guns.
For my $3000, I'd rather have a Delta Unisaw than a SawStop.
I quit tobacco.

Bill

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 12:22:14 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:07:37 -0400,
wrote:

While reading about stipple, for the sake of installing my 11
fluorescent fixtures, the asbestos issue arose...

I was just planning to knock down the stipple with a putty knife and
screw my lights and EMT conduit up.

Do yourself a favor. Drape plastic on the floor, moisten the popcorn
with a fine mist, and watch it drop off. Put it in your trashcan and
be done with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74rr71tZN8U

Wow, that was a much better video than I expected!
This one is pretty good too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWmmj...1&feature=fvwp

They took down the plastic too soon. (see below)


Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )

Yeah, one of my favorite things to do. Kinda like shoveling gravel.

But after the scraping (and allowing it to dry thoroughly) all you
really need to do is sand the entire ceiling.

I assume after you cleaned up that you would apply joint compound as
required, sand, and give it a skim coat? What more would you do to the
ceiling (sorry if I'm naive about it)? What sort of texture would you
be looking for (name it, and I'll look it up)? After getting ceilings
smoothe as a baby's bottom, why are we going to screw 'em up again?
Yeah, I didn't know what a "ranch" house was very long before I owned
one--I thought it was salad dressing. ; )




That doesn't take all
that long with an extension pole, so figure an hour for that. Now
texture it (Eek! Hire that out.) paint it, and put up those light
fixtures. All done by Christmas!

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 00:57:51 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

Eric wrote:


Be sure and be safe!

Or... simply quit being an alarmist and follow the published guidelines for
homeowners. It's really pretty clear.

Right. Clear and basic.
Wear a respirator when you create any kind of dust in the air.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus