On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 05:05:52 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
They took down the plastic too soon. (see below)


Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )

Yeah, one of my favorite things to do. Kinda like shoveling gravel.

But after the scraping (and allowing it to dry thoroughly) all you
really need to do is sand the entire ceiling.

I assume after you cleaned up that you would apply joint compound as

The one time I've removed that crap, the ceiling had been taped,
mudded, and sanded underneath. There was no repair necessary.
That said, I've never seen popcorn sprayed on an untaped ceiling, but
I wasn't in the industry. I've always been a solo freelancer.


required, sand, and give it a skim coat? What more would you do to the
ceiling (sorry if I'm naive about it)? What sort of texture would you
be looking for (name it, and I'll look it up)? After getting ceilings
smoothe as a baby's bottom, why are we going to screw 'em up again?

You don't have to texture, but most walls and ceilings are -not-
perfect (use high gloss paint and see for yourself evil grin) and
that shows without a texture to hide it.

Chapter 8, Page 162++, of course.
Or match the texture you put on the rest of the walls.


Yeah, I didn't know what a "ranch" house was very long before I owned
one--I thought it was salad dressing. ; )

groan




(Yes, from Myron Ferguson's _Drywall_ book.)

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Morgans wrote:

I am not sure why you are making this complicated, like you are-and have
done on other projects.

Step one- use a 3/4" roller, and paint the whole ceiling with white
stain blocker paint. I suggest this step, because after I sprayed
popcorn on my older house ceiling, brown stains bled through any place
there was not joint compound under the paint. You will do the whole
ceiling just as fast as painting only under the location of the lights
as you are suggesting. The fresh white will reflect more light and be a
fresh new look for your old ceiling.

Step two- put up your lights and conduit. If you are worried about the
ceiling stipple breaking loose, put a little caulk on the part you are
screwing to the ceiling. It will make a flat base for what you are
putting up, and keep the possible asbestos from breaking free. Don't
need to scrape any place, this way. Do not finish tightening the screws
until the caulk dries, if it is not level enough for you when you
tighten it all the way first.


I would strongly advise that you cut some 1/2" to 3/4" pieces of conduit
to act as standoffs, to hold the light off the ceiling. Put the spacers
up and run the screw through the light then the spacers, and the light
will be much cooler, and last longer, and eliminate the possibility of
the light overheating and cutting off. This will also make it easy so
the light will only have a few points of contact of the spacers against
the ceiling. This is an (old school) trick. You can use a pipe cutter
for making spacers easy. Just don't use a pipe cutter for cutting the
emt conduit, because of the sharp edge a pipe cutter will leave on the
inside.


Your idea impressed me even more since I sent my last message. I make
spacers out of 1/2" EMT and use them to separate the fixtures from the
underlying wallboard (duh)... I presume they will slice neatly through
the stipple...

Now, I also understand also how you suggest to use the caulk...beautiful.

You surely saved me much time and unnecessary aggravation!

Bill


-- Jim in NC

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 05:05:52 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
They took down the plastic too soon. (see below)


Since the ceiling compounds gave the finishers an easy way out, I would
anticipate that some extra drywall work will be required. Nothing like
working on the ceiling, huh? : )

Yeah, one of my favorite things to do. Kinda like shoveling gravel.

But after the scraping (and allowing it to dry thoroughly) all you
really need to do is sand the entire ceiling.

I assume after you cleaned up that you would apply joint compound as

The one time I've removed that crap, the ceiling had been taped,
mudded, and sanded underneath. There was no repair necessary.
That said, I've never seen popcorn sprayed on an untaped ceiling, but
I wasn't in the industry. I've always been a solo freelancer.


required, sand, and give it a skim coat? What more would you do to the
ceiling (sorry if I'm naive about it)? What sort of texture would you
be looking for (name it, and I'll look it up)? After getting ceilings
smoothe as a baby's bottom, why are we going to screw 'em up again?

You don't have to texture, but most walls and ceilings are -not-
perfect (use high gloss paint and see for yourselfevil grin) and
that shows without a texture to hide it.

Chapter 8, Page 162++, of course.
Or match the texture you put on the rest of the walls.

Yes, Chapter 8, p. 179 in my copy, says:

"Textured finishes, ... . They are excellent at hiding minor surface
imperfections and irregularities."

It much feel terrible to have a ceilings with minor imperfections and
irregularities! ; ) WEG

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 12:37:55 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Morgans wrote:

I am not sure why you are making this complicated, like you are-and have
done on other projects.

Step one- use a 3/4" roller, and paint the whole ceiling with white
stain blocker paint. I suggest this step, because after I sprayed
popcorn on my older house ceiling, brown stains bled through any place
there was not joint compound under the paint. You will do the whole
ceiling just as fast as painting only under the location of the lights
as you are suggesting. The fresh white will reflect more light and be a
fresh new look for your old ceiling.

Step two- put up your lights and conduit. If you are worried about the
ceiling stipple breaking loose, put a little caulk on the part you are
screwing to the ceiling. It will make a flat base for what you are
putting up, and keep the possible asbestos from breaking free. Don't
need to scrape any place, this way. Do not finish tightening the screws
until the caulk dries, if it is not level enough for you when you
tighten it all the way first.


I would strongly advise that you cut some 1/2" to 3/4" pieces of conduit
to act as standoffs, to hold the light off the ceiling. Put the spacers
up and run the screw through the light then the spacers, and the light
will be much cooler, and last longer, and eliminate the possibility of
the light overheating and cutting off. This will also make it easy so
the light will only have a few points of contact of the spacers against
the ceiling. This is an (old school) trick. You can use a pipe cutter
for making spacers easy. Just don't use a pipe cutter for cutting the
emt conduit, because of the sharp edge a pipe cutter will leave on the
inside.

Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.


Your idea impressed me even more since I sent my last message. I make
spacers out of 1/2" EMT and use them to separate the fixtures from the
underlying wallboard (duh)... I presume they will slice neatly through
the stipple...

Now, I also understand also how you suggest to use the caulk...beautiful.

You surely saved me much time and unnecessary aggravation!

Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
Murphy backs that thought 100%.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Larry Jaques wrote:

Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
Murphy backs that thought 100%.


I believe you and, since you showed me just how easy it can be, I can't
rule it out. I am just, unfortunately, unable to add it to this year's
schedule. : (

Now, if you lived closer, I'll be we could zip through some of these
tasks like they was nothin'!

Larry Jaques wrote:

Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.

Have you tried one on EMT? Looks like it might be just the ticket.

"Bill" wrote in message ...

Eric wrote:

Finding out where and how may be another thing, though.

Be sure and be safe!

--

Eric


I'll act in a safe manner and be safe!
I treat all guns as loaded. I'm not least bit afraid of guns.
For my $3000, I'd rather have a Delta Unisaw than a SawStop.
I quit tobacco.

Bill

====

I hear ya'

LOL

It would be nice to know how somebody makes out getting something like that
tested. The costs, hassle and how deep the involvement gets. I don't see an
issue outside of the workplace...inside? maybe wow! I have heard a few
doooozies in my life time.

--

Eric

"Bill" wrote in message ...
BTW, I don't make things complicated on purpose. One of the lessons I
learned from by mobile base project was not to make my tolerences too
small: The specifications of the height of the castors did not incude
their 1/8" frame, 3" bolts do not include the thickness of their heads,
and even 2by4 lumber can't be depended upon to be of any size, let alone
2by8 lumber! Lesson gained! I have to give you all of the credit for
teaching me about the mechanics of such mobile bases. I am pleased to
tell you it came out pretty good and I will put a picture on my web page
to show you after things are "tidied up".

======

I just manufactured some wooden tubes to cover the upper part of my bricked
pillars on my deck and wanted them fairly tight to avoid too much trim gap
at the ends. You 47-1/2" and trim the 48" strips down to 47-3/8". Glue and
the wife primed them all before we went to the beach for the day.

Got home and tried one out on pillar #1 (marked inside tube). Damn thing was
1/2" too long...I swear! Remeasured...all the same!

I am sure the wife stretched the damn thing with that paint roller of hers!
Women! Who can trust 'em?


--Eric

Read the comments on the youtube video. Sounds like nobody else can get it
to come off like that.

-------------

"Bill" wrote in message ...
Well, the stuff appears to come off Much easier than I would have
supposed! Your comment about the stipple ruining the finishing is
better-taken now too. At first, it just sounded like more work!

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:37:28 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
Murphy backs that thought 100%.


I believe you and, since you showed me just how easy it can be, I can't
rule it out. I am just, unfortunately, unable to add it to this year's
schedule. : (

Bill, it'll take you half a day at best, and I guarantee that if you
-don't- do it before you hang those lights, it will never get done.
BTDT, got the t-shirt.


Now, if you lived closer, I'll be we could zip through some of these
tasks like they was nothin'!

I'd say "Send a plane ticket" but I don't feel like getting goosed
right now.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:39:58 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.

Have you tried one on EMT? Looks like it might be just the ticket.

Yeah, I've used any old pipe cutter, including the minis (my fave) on
emt and it cuts fine.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:39:58 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.

Have you tried one on EMT? Looks like it might be just the ticket.

Yeah, I've used any old pipe cutter, including the minis (my fave) on
emt and it cuts fine.

I wasn't worried about it cutting, I wondered how well it's
reamer/deburrer worked. Is that all I would need before running wire
through it? No files?

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:37:28 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
Murphy backs that thought 100%.


I believe you and, since you showed me just how easy it can be, I can't
rule it out. I am just, unfortunately, unable to add it to this year's
schedule. : (

Bill, it'll take you half a day at best, and I guarantee that if you
-don't- do it before you hang those lights, it will never get done.
BTDT, got the t-shirt.

If I was going to remove stipple, it would be in the rest of the house.
If I was going to remove it from the garage, I would replace the aging
drywall on the ceiling there too. Who knows.. maybe in a few years. No
need, for now. I appreciate all the ideas I got on the topic this week.
Not only will they help me, they will also help me be safe!

Bill

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 07:27:49 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:37:28 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Uh, Bill. If you leave the popcorn up there and do any finishing
whatsoever in your shop, you -will- get popcorn droppings in it.
Murphy backs that thought 100%.


I believe you and, since you showed me just how easy it can be, I can't
rule it out. I am just, unfortunately, unable to add it to this year's
schedule. : (

Bill, it'll take you half a day at best, and I guarantee that if you
-don't- do it before you hang those lights, it will never get done.
BTDT, got the t-shirt.

If I was going to remove stipple, it would be in the rest of the house.
If I was going to remove it from the garage, I would replace the aging
drywall on the ceiling there too. Who knows.. maybe in a few years. No
need, for now. I appreciate all the ideas I got on the topic this week.
Not only will they help me, they will also help me be safe!

Warning: Once you disturb popcorn, it starts flaking worse.
Being matte and bumpy, it also sucks light rather than reflecting it.

G'luck!

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 07:10:46 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 18:39:58 -0400,
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.

Have you tried one on EMT? Looks like it might be just the ticket.

Yeah, I've used any old pipe cutter, including the minis (my fave) on
emt and it cuts fine.

I wasn't worried about it cutting, I wondered how well it's
reamer/deburrer worked. Is that all I would need before running wire
through it? No files?

They work well enough. Since the emt goes into connectors which
protect the ends, all you have to do is debur it so it doesn't chafe
the wiring, and the deburrer works well enough for that, yes.

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

Larry Jaques wrote:

Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.

That is allowable when cutting ridged conduit for electrical use. EMT is
best cut with a hacksaw, then lightly reamed to remove cutting burrs. Using
a reamer does not make a finish that does not cut wires. Try it, don't just
read about it, jackleg.

Morgans wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Jim, most pipe cutters have a reamer/deburrer attached to them so the
lip can be rendered harmless. http://goo.gl/uDeux 1 pic = 1k words.

That is allowable when cutting ridged conduit for electrical use. EMT is
best cut with a hacksaw, then lightly reamed to remove cutting burrs.
Using a reamer does not make a finish that does not cut wires. Try it,
don't just read about it, jackleg.


I bought the pipe cutting unit linked to above yesterday. Hmmm 26.99 to
cut 40 spacers--maybe I should take it back. I'll see how long it takes
me to cut the EMT with a hack saw first! : )

By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.

Larry, I had nightmares about the stipple getting in my finishing last
night!! : )

Bill

"Bill" wrote
I bought the pipe cutting unit linked to above yesterday. Hmmm 26.99 to
cut 40 spacers--maybe I should take it back. I'll see how long it takes
me to cut the EMT with a hack saw first! : )

By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.

Larry, I had nightmares about the stipple getting in my finishing last
night!! : )

If you are not going to run wires through the spacers (which you will not be
doing) it is fine to cut it with a pipe cutter. The problem cutting EMT
with a pipe cutter is that it crushes it as it cuts it, leaving a sharp
edge, and when you ream it, it just gets sharper. If you run wires though
it, there is a very good chance that some wires will get their insulations
cut, and cause a short.

-- Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote

By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.

I'd make an asbestos paste and smear it on.

Morgans wrote:
"Bill" wrote
I bought the pipe cutting unit linked to above yesterday. Hmmm 26.99 to
cut 40 spacers--maybe I should take it back. I'll see how long it takes
me to cut the EMT with a hack saw first! : )

By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.

Larry, I had nightmares about the stipple getting in my finishing last
night!! : )

If you are not going to run wires through the spacers (which you will
not be doing) it is fine to cut it with a pipe cutter. The problem
cutting EMT with a pipe cutter is that it crushes it as it cuts it,
leaving a sharp edge, and when you ream it, it just gets sharper. If you
run wires though it, there is a very good chance that some wires will
get their insulations cut, and cause a short.

Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry. I appreciate your
pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?




-- Jim in NC

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Morgans" wrote

By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.

I'd make an asbestos paste and smear it on.

I'll mix the paste as-best-os-I-can...you will think I am Chef Boyardee!
: )

"Bill" wrote

Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry. I appreciate your
pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but a light ream on a hacksaw cut EMT works well, does not make a sharp
edge, and is faster.

-- Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Bill" wrote

Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry. I appreciate your
pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, but a light ream on a hacksaw cut EMT works well, does not make a
sharp edge, and is faster.

-- Jim in NC


Jim, Is this the sort of tool you would recommend for that?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1... kType=G2#desc

Bill

On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 22:58:54 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Morgans wrote:
"Bill" wrote
I bought the pipe cutting unit linked to above yesterday. Hmmm 26.99 to
cut 40 spacers--maybe I should take it back. I'll see how long it takes
me to cut the EMT with a hack saw first! : )

By the way, what is a good choice of caulk that would make a good choice
for the used already described? It's occured to me that it shouldn't be
heat sensitive (produce dangerous fumes when warmed) or be flammable.

Larry, I had nightmares about the stipple getting in my finishing last
night!! : )

Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done.


If you are not going to run wires through the spacers (which you will
not be doing) it is fine to cut it with a pipe cutter. The problem
cutting EMT with a pipe cutter is that it crushes it as it cuts it,
leaving a sharp edge, and when you ream it, it just gets sharper. If you
run wires though it, there is a very good chance that some wires will
get their insulations cut, and cause a short.

Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry.

Yes, and I plonked him for his idiotic assumptions.


I appreciate your pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?

A pipe cutter will tend to leave a sharp edge, but ther reamer pushes
it out beyond the lip of the connector it slides into, protecting all
wiring from any sharp edges. The Noaf Kay-lina boy must not even be
_using_ connectors if his wires get cut. Or he's just careless with
the reamer. Yes, a round or rattail halfround file will work with a
hacksaw, too, but you have a lot more cleanup if you do that, both in
the pipe and on the shop floor. Saw shavings left in the emt will
chafe wiring, too, if they're not too busy finding their way into your
fingertips.

--
We are always the same age inside.
-- Gertrude Stein

We had a new 60 unit apartment building condemned, electrically, and made
the Electrician repipe the whole building after using a pipe cutter and
reaming out the burrs. There were still several places that ripped the
insulation off the wires. Not a fun job after most of the drywall was on.

I wouldn't even try it with a pipe cutter after that one. It was only a
small arc and we caught it in the testing stage.

Use a hacksaw and file or reamer.

-----------


"Bill" wrote in message ...
Yes, I understood that from your last post to Larry. I appreciate your
pointing it out. Hack saw and a round file, huh?

That would do it. It's only the inside burrs that are a problem with an EMT
fitting slid over it.

--------

"Bill" wrote in message ...
Jim, Is this the sort of tool you would recommend for that?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1... kType=G2#desc

Bill

Yep, that will do.

Mine is mounted in a brace and bit setup. There is not a need, but it is
what I got. (from my dad)

-- Jim in NC