http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...ports/25611060

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 6/15/11 3:56 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...ports/25611060


Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?


You'd think they guys who've been making bats for a hundred years would
know that. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

In article ,
Steve Turner wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...ports/25611060

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--

We've been playing baseball with wooden bats for over a hundred years and
working wood since prehistoric times. It does seem hard to believe that
bat makers and the leagues were not already aware of something so basic.
Well, good publicicty for the Forest Service anyway.


--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 6/15/11 4:49 PM, Larry W wrote:
In ,
Steve wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...ports/25611060

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--

We've been playing baseball with wooden bats for over a hundred years and
working wood since prehistoric times. It does seem hard to believe that
bat makers and the leagues were not already aware of something so basic.
Well, good publicicty for the Forest Service anyway.


It's also just damage control for MLB.
One guy gets impaled every 50 years and suddenly it's epidemic. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Duh! *Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same
thing if
they'd asked us?


OK, add the Forest Service to the list of "Waste, Fraud and Abuse" in
the Federal Gov't, under the "Waste" category.

Your tax dollars at work. Lucky for the struggling billionaire MLB
team owners that the gov't can help them out with such a critical job
creation issue, or does this help the deficit?

On Jun 15, 5:33*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/15/11 3:56 PM, Steve Turner wrote:

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_...

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

You'd think they guys who've been making bats for a hundred years would
know that. * :-)

I'm sure they did/do. They also know that there's less wasted wood if
you ignore grain direction.

I can't believe that the FPL got involved. You could show any high
school kid in shop class three broken bats and they'd be able to tell
you why they broke.

R

On Jun 15, 4:56*pm, Steve Turner
wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_...

Duh! *Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. *See Nad go. *Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Aluminum bats anyone?

On 6/15/11 7:46 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 15, 4:56 pm, Steve
wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_...

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Aluminum bats anyone?

Sure. The games will never end, but yeah, they'll save bats. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Jun 15, 9:06*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/15/11 7:46 PM, Robatoy wrote:

On Jun 15, 4:56 pm, Steve
wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_....

Duh! *Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. *See Nad go. *Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Aluminum bats anyone?

Sure. *The games will never end, but yeah, they'll save bats. * :-)

--

* -MIKE-

* "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
* * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004)
* --
*http://mikedrums.com
*
* ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Okay, how about wrapping a wooden bat in carbon fibre?

On 6/15/11 8:08 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 15, 9:06 pm, wrote:
On 6/15/11 7:46 PM, Robatoy wrote:

On Jun 15, 4:56 pm, Steve
wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_...

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Aluminum bats anyone?

Sure. The games will never end, but yeah, they'll save bats. :-)


Okay, how about wrapping a wooden bat in carbon fibre?

How about waiting a week and everybody will forget about the problem
that isn't. :-)
(the carbon fiber to wrap one bat would cost as much as the wood for 40
bats.)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Jun 15, 9:27*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/15/11 8:08 PM, Robatoy wrote:





On Jun 15, 9:06 pm, *wrote:
On 6/15/11 7:46 PM, Robatoy wrote:

On Jun 15, 4:56 pm, Steve
wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_....

Duh! *Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. *See Nad go. *Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Aluminum bats anyone?

Sure. *The games will never end, but yeah, they'll save bats. * :-)

Okay, how about wrapping a wooden bat in carbon fibre?

How about waiting a week and everybody will forget about the problem
that isn't. *:-)
(the carbon fiber to wrap one bat would cost as much as the wood for 40
bats.)


But, but, but the flying splinters? Won't you think of the children?

On 6/15/11 9:17 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 15, 9:27 pm, wrote:
On 6/15/11 8:08 PM, Robatoy wrote:


On Jun 15, 9:06 pm, wrote:
On 6/15/11 7:46 PM, Robatoy wrote:

On Jun 15, 4:56 pm, Steve
wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_...

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Aluminum bats anyone?

Sure. The games will never end, but yeah, they'll save bats. :-)

Okay, how about wrapping a wooden bat in carbon fibre?

How about waiting a week and everybody will forget about the problem
that isn't. :-)
(the carbon fiber to wrap one bat would cost as much as the wood for 40
bats.)


But, but, but the flying splinters? Won't you think of the children?

I know you're kidding around..... but I remember ducking broken bats at
the old Cleveland Municipal stadium, when I was a kid.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...ports/25611060

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
We might have the same problem he
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reuAE5xAzG4

Tim w

Robatoy wrote the following:
On Jun 15, 4:56 pm, Steve Turner
wrote:

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_...

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/


Aluminum bats anyone?

Aluminum bats are not allowed in professional baseball.
They can hit balls faster and farther than wooden bats.
They would likely break all batting records set so far by wooden bats.
There is more danger to the pitcher getting hit by a faster ball than a
wooden bat.
They sound like crap when hitting the ball. Clank, rather than Crack!

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On 6/16/2011 8:28 AM, willshak wrote:
Robatoy wrote the following:
On Jun 15, 4:56 pm, Steve Turner
wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...11060#news/AP_...

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Aluminum bats anyone?
Aluminum bats are not allowed in professional baseball.
They can hit balls faster and farther than wooden bats.
They would likely break all batting records set so far by wooden bats.
There is more danger to the pitcher getting hit by a faster ball than a wooden
bat.
They sound like crap when hitting the ball. Clank, rather than Crack!

What a sacrilegious blow it would be to major league baseball if they allowed
that annoying "clank" to usurp the special sound of the wooden bat! The sound
of that "crack!" is like music, and it defines part of the thrill of the game.
You can tell by the sound how well the ball was hit, and everyone who hears
it immediately formulates an idea of where it's headed and how far it will
travel. The sound of an aluminum bat is like fingernails on a blackboard to a
true fan of baseball.

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

willshak wrote:

....


Aluminum bats are not allowed in professional baseball.
They can hit balls faster and farther than wooden bats.
They would likely break all batting records set so far by wooden bats.
There is more danger to the pitcher getting hit by a faster ball than a
wooden bat.
They sound like crap when hitting the ball. Clank, rather than Crack!


a) true
b) _can/could_ be made w/ similar or even lower coefficient of
restitution to control/limit but current are somewhat more so, true.
Have, however, reduced significantly from when initially introduced
years ago.
c) see b)
d) true, if so
e) true altho that too, has been modified it still isn't a wood bat (but
new wood bats don't seem to sound as good uniformly as I recall, either.
We have summer league team here that is wooden-bat league and just
last night was thinking of how they don't seem quite the same for some
reason).

--

On 6/16/11 8:28 AM, willshak wrote:

They sound like crap when hitting the ball. Clank, rather than Crack!


Not important, but just to point out....
"Aluminum" bats are pretty much a thing of the past. Non-wood bats are
now a hodgepodge of composites, including aluminum, but mostly moving
toward carbon fiber. Not only does this make it feel really good when
you hit the ball nice and square, but it has the added benefit of
producing a great "crack" sound very similar to wood.

I kind of wish we'd go back to straight up aluminum in softball. The new
bats are well over 300 bucks and guys like me are hitting homers. I'm
not a big guy by any standard, well, maybe in China or Mexico, but in
any case... the older and weaker I get, the more home runs I hit. The
new bats are like trampolines to the balls.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Jun 16, 10:02*am, dpb wrote:

e) true altho that too, has been modified it still isn't a wood bat (but
new wood bats don't seem to sound as good uniformly as I recall, either.

Even though it is difficult to detect a 20KHz sine wave, the transient
of an 'impact' has components way higher than that. It's a package of
information that when you lob off everything above 8 - 10KHz due to
age related (or other) loss of high frequency hearing, you will notice
the difference.

I don't know your age or your exposure to industrial noise, but
there's a good chance that the reason why those bats don't 'crack' so
much is due to hearing loss.... assuming everything else reasonably
constant.

BUT.. it could be the bats or even the finish on them.

On 6/15/2011 4:56 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...ports/25611060

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

No, but 60 years ago when I picked up my first bat, my brothers
instructed me to make sure the label on the bat was facing you. The
label was placed on the bat so if it faced you when holding the bat in
front of you, the grain would always be correctly oriented when you
swung/swang/swunged the bat. The same guys that make bats today, made
them then, and the US Forest Service, like most all government
boondoggles simply wasted our hard earned money doing the study.

The problem with the bats breaking more than normal had nothing to do
with grain direction, EVERYONE that ever played baseball with a wood bat
had to know this. It did have something to do with the choice of wood
for the bats.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

"Jack Stein" wrote in
message ...
On 6/15/2011 4:56 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player...ports/25611060

Duh! Is there anybody here who couldn't have
told them the same thing if
they'd asked us?

No, but 60 years ago when I picked up my first
bat, my brothers instructed me to make sure the
label on the bat was facing you. The label was
placed on the bat so if it faced you when
holding the bat in front of you, the grain would
always be correctly oriented when you
swung/swang/swunged the bat. The same guys that
make bats today, made them then, and the US
Forest Service, like most all government
boondoggles simply wasted our hard earned money
doing the study.

The problem with the bats breaking more than
normal had nothing to do with grain direction,
EVERYONE that ever played baseball with a wood
bat had to know this. It did have something to
do with the choice of wood for the bats.

--
Jack

Yes, the wood. At the very end of the video posted
by the OP there is
a comment about low-density maple. Play it again
and watch for it.....

On 6/16/11 5:01 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
The problem with the bats breaking more than normal

The problem with the bats breaking more than normal is that they're not.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/16/2011 8:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/16/11 5:01 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
The problem with the bats breaking more than normal

The problem with the bats breaking more than normal is that they're not.

They are breaking more than they used to break, and breaking in a more
dangerous manner. Prior to 2000, almost all ML bats were ash. Now,
about 50% of the bats are made of maple. Ash doesn't break as easily,
and when it does, it tends to crack, whilst maple tends to snap, sending
dangerous unguided wooden missiles about. This is what the people in
the business have been saying. I don't follow baseball or any other
dumb ass sport, so I only repeat what they are saying, and it makes sense.

Why do you say this is not happening?

I do know that EVERYONE in the major leagues knows ALL about grain
direction, and so do the bat makers so the Government Forrest Service is
wasting our money on this crap.

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 6/17/11 10:10 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
On 6/16/2011 8:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/16/11 5:01 PM, Jack Stein wrote:
The problem with the bats breaking more than normal

The problem with the bats breaking more than normal is that they're not.

They are breaking more than they used to break, and breaking in a more
dangerous manner. Prior to 2000, almost all ML bats were ash. Now, about
50% of the bats are made of maple. Ash doesn't break as easily, and when
it does, it tends to crack, whilst maple tends to snap, sending
dangerous unguided wooden missiles about. This is what the people in the
business have been saying. I don't follow baseball or any other dumb ass
sport, so I only repeat what they are saying, and it makes sense.

Why do you say this is not happening?


Because there are other people with other statistics who say it's not
really happening more. There aren't really stats on broken bats and if
there are, now, it's too new a stat to have any value in a historic
analysis.

A couple people get hurt and all of a sudden it's an epidemic, so MLB is
on damage control. If they say, "it's no big deal, it's not happening
any more than it used to" and some fan gets impaled, MLB gets sued for
bazillions because they ignored a problem. If they acknowledge (even in
self-creation) a problem and address it, they come across as a good guy.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:

....


Because there are other people with other statistics who say it's not
really happening more. There aren't really stats on broken bats and if
there are, now, it's too new a stat to have any value in a historic
analysis.
....


Don't know who's done what to look at tape of games for years and
evaluate so won't comment too much on that aspect other than otomh I'd
tend to agree w/ the latter as being likely to have merit.

I would expect any increase in the number of incidents over the years is
also related to changes in the style of bats that are popular now vis a
vis those of years ago. Much thinner handles and lighter bats are more
in vogue than the "bottle" and heavier bats of yore as players look more
for bat speed rather than weight as the goal.

I think unless evaluations and analysis include the physical dimensions
as well as simply the material there are variables being ignored that
are likely to be significant in any correlation and hence conclusions
drawn w/o consideration of same are likely not valid.

--

"Jack Stein" wrote
I don't follow baseball or any other dumb ass sport, so I only repeat
what they are saying, and it makes sense.

With an attitude like that, don't expect any invitations for championship
celebrations with car burnings and window smashing.