Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
I'm looking for classes in spray finishing. Basically I would like to
learn to set up the gun and proper techniques to spray. Troubleshooting problems would be nice too. The ideal class would have plenty of hands on lab time... I'm not too concerned with color matching, surface prep, and such although I realize that might be forced onto you as the price of admission to the right class. Various wood schools have occasional classes but they usually are sold out quickly, are lectures instead of hands on, or very small part of a larger finishing class. I looked at the classes of several spray gun manufactorers and they come closest to what I am looking for. Most of them have a heavy car painting leaning, but that is to be expected. It would be nice if they focused on wood, but I guess if you learn to dial in and recognise proper atomization it doesn't matter if you're spraying paint or pre-cat. Has anyone been to a class they really were satisfied with and feel it might be what I am looking for? A week is about the longest I could get off work so any that are 5 days or less would be best. Thanks. |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Mar 11, 8:35*am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: wrote: I'm looking for classes in spray finishing. *Basically I would like to learn to set up the gun and proper techniques to spray. Troubleshooting problems *would be nice too. The ideal class would have plenty of hands on lab time... Well, for what you're looking to learn, you don't really need a class structure like you've described. *You could hook up with anybody that uses a paint gun - a body man, a woodworker, etc., and in one hour you could learn everything you need to know about setting up a gun, as well as the basics of troubleshooting common problems. *If you're a slow learner - make that two hours. *After that, it's all about practice. *Another hour or two with someone who knows how to use a gun and you can master the basics of shooting. *I understand your desire for lab time as you expressed it, but you'll get as much from an hour or two with someone who can paint, as you will from the kind of lab time you've suggested. Do some digging through the archives in this group for painting tips. *Both Robert (nailshooter) and I have posted a lot of "how-to" information here that I think you would find valuable. *For a fee, I'm sure Swingman will send you an autographed copy of his soon-to-be-released hardbound collection of these posts. *Of course, that stuff makes a good - and quite comprehensive, *starting point, but this forum serves well to continue from there. -- -Mike- Agreed, find a good body guy or a local cab shop and make friends (bring donuts and humility). If you find a sand blasting shop they may hand you the gun and set you off priming some pieces. As far as lab time goes, buy some old junk furniture, get a can of mid grade finish (not low end -- too hard to use; not high end -- too easy to use) and start spraying. You could strip and do a proper refinishing or you can scuff sand and spray. I'm thinking real furniture since that'll help you learn how to get into corners, manage bounce back etc. That's just a set of ideas, I grew up with the family business having a sandblasting and painting division so I learned on lots of ag equipment, trailers and worst of all tire rims. Tire rims suck since you are essentially spraying into a bowl and bounce back is unavoidable. Tractors have lots of nooks and crannies, makes most woodworking stuff relatively straightforward. Also from tractors you learn to be pick your battles: guys driving tractors for hours in the field spend a lot of time looking over the hood -- that's gotta be perfect; a run down in around the rear end isn't such a big deal. hex -30- |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
"Mike Marlow" writes:
wrote: I'm looking for classes in spray finishing. Basically I would like to learn to set up the gun and proper techniques to spray. Troubleshooting problems would be nice too. The ideal class would have plenty of hands on lab time... Well, for what you're looking to learn, you don't really need a class structure like you've described. You could hook up with anybody that uses a paint gun - a body man, a woodworker, etc., and in one hour you could learn everything you need to know about setting up a gun, as well as the basics of troubleshooting common problems. If you're a slow learner - make that two hours. After that, it's all about practice. Another hour or two with someone who knows how to use a gun and you can master the basics of shooting. I understand your desire for lab time as you expressed it, but you'll get as much from an hour or two with someone who can paint, as you will from the kind of lab time you've suggested. Do some digging through the archives in this group for painting tips. Both Robert (nailshooter) and I have posted a lot of "how-to" information here that I think you would find valuable. For a fee, I'm sure Swingman will send you an autographed copy of his soon-to-be-released hardbound collection of these posts. Of course, that stuff makes a good - and quite comprehensive, starting point, but this forum serves well to continue from there. All good advice. I too am interested in picking up spray finishing but more as a hobbyist and I can't afford the time or $$$ to go to school for this. Indeed, your approach makes a lot of sense for my needs. First, is there anybody here in the Boston area who is willing to let me "observe" in exchange for Beers or donuts? Second, are you aware of any good web videos and/or howtos (in addition to the posts you reference) that might be good for instruction? Books would be helpful too, but typically I find I don't have the time/patience to wade through an entire book and find videos more helpful at least at the intro level... |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:03:03 -0500, blueman wrote:
"Mike Marlow" writes: wrote: I'm looking for classes in spray finishing. Basically I would like to learn to set up the gun and proper techniques to spray. Troubleshooting problems would be nice too. The ideal class would have plenty of hands on lab time... Well, for what you're looking to learn, you don't really need a class structure like you've described. You could hook up with anybody that uses a paint gun - a body man, a woodworker, etc., and in one hour you could learn everything you need to know about setting up a gun, as well as the basics of troubleshooting common problems. If you're a slow learner - make that two hours. After that, it's all about practice. Another hour or two with someone who knows how to use a gun and you can master the basics of shooting. I understand your desire for lab time as you expressed it, but you'll get as much from an hour or two with someone who can paint, as you will from the kind of lab time you've suggested. Do some digging through the archives in this group for painting tips. Both Robert (nailshooter) and I have posted a lot of "how-to" information here that I think you would find valuable. For a fee, I'm sure Swingman will send you an autographed copy of his soon-to-be-released hardbound collection of these posts. Of course, that stuff makes a good - and quite comprehensive, starting point, but this forum serves well to continue from there. All good advice. I too am interested in picking up spray finishing but more as a hobbyist and I can't afford the time or $$$ to go to school for this. Indeed, your approach makes a lot of sense for my needs. First, is there anybody here in the Boston area who is willing to let me "observe" in exchange for Beers or donuts? Second, are you aware of any good web videos and/or howtos (in addition to the posts you reference) that might be good for instruction? ....you'll find how-to vids on just about anything on YouTube...watch all you can, 'cause there's alot of bunk out there... cg Books would be helpful too, but typically I find I don't have the time/patience to wade through an entire book and find videos more helpful at least at the intro level... |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
All of the replies actual compound my original question.
I usually fly out on Sunday or Monday. I fly home on Friday or Saturday. So I work 60 to 80 hours per week. I have 0 to 2 days home per week. I live 60 miles from the nearest big town that would have spray shops. I'm really not interested in slepping beer and donuts 60 miles in the hope that I can make new friends who might let me eventually learn something from them. Having more money than time I am interested in someone who is a proven knowledgable teacher who will be willing to exchange $$$ instead of donuts for a few days of looking over my shoulder and explaining the right way to do things. I have read every book and film I can find on the subject. But obviously something hasn't quite clicked. I am pretty much at the point that I am re-enforcing my bad habits. So, my original question remains.... Does anyone have recommendations on a school for spray finishing. I see plenty of places on the web, so don't suggest Google searches. I'm looking for first hand recommendations of classes that people have attended and they were pleased with the content and the quality. Thanks. On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 18:28:30 -0800, Chasgroh wrote: On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:03:03 -0500, blueman wrote: "Mike Marlow" writes: wrote: I'm looking for classes in spray finishing. Basically I would like to learn to set up the gun and proper techniques to spray. Troubleshooting problems would be nice too. The ideal class would have plenty of hands on lab time... Well, for what you're looking to learn, you don't really need a class structure like you've described. You could hook up with anybody that uses a paint gun - a body man, a woodworker, etc., and in one hour you could learn everything you need to know about setting up a gun, as well as the basics of troubleshooting common problems. If you're a slow learner - make that two hours. After that, it's all about practice. Another hour or two with someone who knows how to use a gun and you can master the basics of shooting. I understand your desire for lab time as you expressed it, but you'll get as much from an hour or two with someone who can paint, as you will from the kind of lab time you've suggested. Do some digging through the archives in this group for painting tips. Both Robert (nailshooter) and I have posted a lot of "how-to" information here that I think you would find valuable. For a fee, I'm sure Swingman will send you an autographed copy of his soon-to-be-released hardbound collection of these posts. Of course, that stuff makes a good - and quite comprehensive, starting point, but this forum serves well to continue from there. All good advice. I too am interested in picking up spray finishing but more as a hobbyist and I can't afford the time or $$$ to go to school for this. Indeed, your approach makes a lot of sense for my needs. First, is there anybody here in the Boston area who is willing to let me "observe" in exchange for Beers or donuts? Second, are you aware of any good web videos and/or howtos (in addition to the posts you reference) that might be good for instruction? ...you'll find how-to vids on just about anything on YouTube...watch all you can, 'cause there's alot of bunk out there... cg Books would be helpful too, but typically I find I don't have the time/patience to wade through an entire book and find videos more helpful at least at the intro level... |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Mar 13, 3:35*am, wrote:
I'm really not interested in slepping beer and donuts 60 miles in the hope that I can make new friends who might let me eventually learn something from them. * I let that comment go from an earlier poster, but don't waste your time trying. I am no high powered sanctimonious craftsman, but I do have a sense of pride and what I do, and more importantly a work schedule. The idea of someone showing up with a .69 doughnut and a cup of coffee (which I keep in hand in large amounts) asking for an education in exchange for a couple of dollars of food is ludicrous. The stuff the hobby worker dreams of, I guess. And why would you have someone work for you that takes away from your work schedule? Times are tight, dollars are tight, and I while I would surely take the time to teach my neighbor about finishing (certainly done that) and teach my friends about spraying (case of beer and bbq more appropriate) I don't stop a paying job to screw around with someone that isn't making me money. I wouldn't stop a second to explain the relationship between adjusting the pressure of the gun to the amount of paint coming out to give the pattern you want. Why would you? Since this is basically a production environment, why would you take your time and cut your earning to teach someone for a doughnut? I can't imagine wandering into an office somewhere and asking someone if they would teach you to put together a Power Point presentation for a snack. Having more money than time I am interested in someone who is a proven knowledgable teacher who will be willing to exchange $$$ instead of donuts for a few days of looking over my shoulder and explaining the right way to do things. Now you are on to something. Have someone teach you that can give undivided attention, someone that has accepted that as his task. You pay a equitable amount, and you should get a commensurate amount of education from the session. I have read every book and film I can find on the subject. *But obviously something hasn't quite clicked. *I am pretty much at the point that I am re-enforcing *my bad habits. I like Mike's comment about searching this group. There are DETAILED explanations on gun set up, understanding finish viscosity to pressure, discussions on temperature affecting spray, techniques, etc. In fact, as many years as I have been doing this type of work professionally, it was actually Mike that got me spray polyurethane the first time. I laugh at how silly it sounds now, but it was a big deal to me then. It doesn't sound like you have the time to put into the craft of finishing that you will need to be good at it. Any idiot can shoot goo out of a gun. But really good spray finishing takes practice, time, materials, and a lot of patience. There are a lot of factors that come into play about understanding materials, humidity, etc. So, my original question remains.... Does anyone have recommendations on a school for spray finishing. * If you are looking to jump right in, personally I would try the local community college and try out their paint and body course. You can learn a lot from a traditional car guy (like Mike M) that is *directly* applicable to wood finishing. Robert |
#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Mar 13, 1:06*pm, "
wrote: On Mar 13, 3:35*am, wrote: I'm really not interested in slepping beer and donuts 60 miles in the hope that I can make new friends who might let me eventually learn something from them. * I let that comment go from an earlier poster, but don't waste your time trying. *I am no high powered sanctimonious craftsman, but I do have a sense of pride and what I do, and more importantly a work schedule. The idea of someone showing up with a .69 doughnut and a cup of coffee (which I keep in hand in large amounts) asking for an education in exchange for a couple of dollars of food is ludicrous. *The stuff the hobby worker dreams of, I guess. And why would you have someone work for you that takes away from your work schedule? *Times are tight, dollars are tight, and I while I would surely take the time to teach my neighbor about finishing (certainly done that) and teach my friends about spraying (case of beer and bbq more appropriate) I don't stop a paying job to screw around with someone that isn't making me money. I wouldn't stop a second to explain the relationship between adjusting the pressure of the gun to the amount of paint coming out to give the pattern you want. *Why would you? *Since this is basically a production environment, why would you take your time and cut your earning to teach someone for a doughnut? I can't imagine wandering into an office somewhere and asking someone if they would teach you to put together a Power Point presentation for a snack. Having more money than time I am interested in someone who is a proven knowledgable teacher who will be willing to exchange $$$ instead of donuts for a few days of looking over my shoulder and explaining the right way to do things. Now you are on to something. *Have someone teach you that can give undivided attention, someone that has accepted that as his task. *You pay a equitable amount, and you should get a commensurate amount of education from the session. I have read every book and film I can find on the subject. *But obviously something hasn't quite clicked. *I am pretty much at the point that I am re-enforcing *my bad habits. I like Mike's comment about searching this group. *There are DETAILED explanations on gun set up, understanding finish viscosity to pressure, discussions on temperature affecting spray, techniques, etc. In fact, as many years as I have been doing this type of work professionally, it was actually Mike that got me spray polyurethane the first time. *I laugh at how silly it sounds now, but it was a big deal to me then. It doesn't sound like you have the time to put into the craft of finishing that you will need to be good at it. *Any idiot can shoot goo out of a gun. But really good spray finishing takes practice, time, materials, and a lot of patience. *There are a lot of factors that come into play about understanding materials, humidity, etc. So, my original question remains.... Does anyone have recommendations on a school for spray finishing. * If you are looking to jump right in, personally I would try the local community college and try out their paint and body course. *You can learn a lot from a traditional car guy (like Mike M) that is *directly* applicable to wood finishing. Robert Just yesterday, a young fella came into my shop and wanted a price on a custom laminate top. He had a detailed sketch which included the sink cutout, an irregularity along the wall, an angle at the end, a cut-out around a pillar and a special brace for a dishwasher and a few other details. So I worked out a price. He then asked me how much I would take off if he installed it but I would still have to verify the cutouts and include delivery. I explained that if I were to template and manufacture this top AND dropped it off at his house, the plopping it onto his cabinets would be free. But he insisted that he wanted to do more himself. So I suggested that I would sell him the laminate and particle board and he could buy a gallon of contact cement himself. He then told me that that could get messy with the glue and sawdust and all. Then I asked what he wanted me to do about his dilemma. He wanted that top, but didn't want to pay what I asked. He then said: "If you take off $ 200.00, then I will let you install it." I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On 3/13/10 1:05 PM, Robatoy wrote:
Then I asked what he wanted me to do about his dilemma. He wanted that top, but didn't want to pay what I asked. He then said: "If you take off $ 200.00, then I will let you install it." I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. That's beautiful. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Mar 13, 1:05*pm, Robatoy wrote:
I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. I love it. I about fell out of my chair laughing. Excellent. Here's mine. It happens a couple of times a year. "Hey Robert, what's going on?" "Dunno... how are you? Are you ready to go on that siding project?" "Well, yes and no. The good news is that we don't have as much work to do as we did when you looked at it before, but the bad news is we had someone else start it and now they can't finish it." "What happened?' "Well, they go about half way into the project and they claim they didn't allow enough to finish the job. And my wife isn't very happy as they have killed our plants around the house, and the siding isn't on straight. You might need to straighten up (????) the Hardie planks on their work." "I see.... so they are half way finished with the installation and some of it needs to be reworked?" "Yeah. We know now we should have gone with your company. We want you to finish it up. You want to come buy and measure what's left to do? I don't know... they may have even finished more than half come to think of it.... at this point we are thinking 'no big deal', we just need someone to wrap it up. And of course *chuckle* anything you could do to help us out we would sure appreciate it." I remind them they got fair market price when I estimated the job and since they expected it to be competitive at that time, there wasn't anything in there to give them. (I am always cheery about this, and NEVER say "I told you so". I do point out they need to recall that sometimes the prices they tell me they are seeing on an estimate doesn't cover materials alone. But some clients are real daredevils!) "No problem", I say. "Don't need to go out to the house actually. Just take my original number and at 50% to it to demo the work they did. That should cover it." *crickets...* "So it will cost MORE than we started with, even though it is halfway finished? I thought you would take off at least a third since so much work was done." "Nope. Can't do it." This is usually met with profane disbelief. Astonishment. Then they are ****ed off. They call me names. Then they hang up. I have never had one take me up on my offer. All I can see in my own mind is taking over someone else's warranty, a really ****ed off client to work with before we even start the job, and the possibility that they don't have the money to finish. And with the hurt feelings from screwing themselves, it makes it hard to get paid. Worse, NO referrals from embarrassed clients. No thanks. I wish they could see me shredding their proposal. Good one. |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Mar 13, 3:50*pm, "
wrote: On Mar 13, 1:05*pm, Robatoy wrote: I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. I love it. *I about fell out of my chair laughing. *Excellent. Thank you... what made me proud was the completely impromptu aspect to it. Never done that before, never thought it before.. just sorta-kinda happened. $ 50.00 for a pic of the guys face though.... Here's mine. *It happens a couple of times a year. Yup. A classic. Those kind of rescue missions never work out. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Mar 13, 2:20*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/13/10 1:05 PM, Robatoy wrote: Then I asked what he wanted me to do about his dilemma. He wanted that top, but didn't want to pay what I asked. He then said: "If you take off $ 200.00, then I will let you install it." I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. That's beautiful. Felt great too. |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
wrote in message ... So, my original question remains.... Does anyone have recommendations on a school for spray finishing. I see plenty of places on the web, so don't suggest Google searches. I'm looking for first hand recommendations of classes that people have attended and they were pleased with the content and the quality. Thanks. This school is in my "neck of the woods" (central Indiana). http://www.marcadams.com I'd be surprised if they couldn't teach you something useful. I believe you can arrange individual lessons. You could call and discuss your interests, schedule, etc. with them. It appears that they have quite an operation (I haven't attended). I hope that helps. Bill |
#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:05:34 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
scrawled the following: --bit o' snippage-- Then I asked what he wanted me to do about his dilemma. He wanted that top, but didn't want to pay what I asked. He then said: "If you take off $ 200.00, then I will let you install it." I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. g I've only given quotes to two people like that. By the end of the brief conversations, I had already decided not to do the job for them, even if they doubled the price and paid it all in advance. There's just no satisfying some people and if, by chance, they actually paid the money and you did a perfect job, they'd trash your rep for you. -- I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain. -- John Adams |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On Mar 15, 2:59*pm, "ChairMan" wrote:
, spewed forth: On Mar 13, 1:05 pm, Robatoy wrote: I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. I love it. *I about fell out of my chair laughing. *Excellent. Here's mine. *It happens a couple of times a year. "Hey Robert, what's going on?" "Dunno... how are you? *Are you ready to go on that siding project?" "Well, yes and no. *The good news is that we don't have as much work to do as we did when you looked at it before, but the bad news is we had someone else start it and now they can't finish it." "What happened?' "Well, they go about half way into the project and they claim they didn't allow enough to finish the job. *And my wife isn't very happy as they have killed our plants around the house, and the siding isn't on straight. *You might need to straighten up (????) the Hardie planks on their work." "I see.... so they are half way finished with the installation and some of it needs to be reworked?" "Yeah. *We know now we should have gone with your company. *We want you to finish it up. *You want to come buy and measure what's left to do? *I don't know... they may have even finished more than half come to think of it.... *at this point we are thinking 'no big deal', we just need someone to wrap it up. *And of course *chuckle* anything you could do to help us out we would sure appreciate it." I remind them they got fair market price when I estimated the job and since they expected it to be competitive at that time, there wasn't anything in there to give them. (I am always cheery about this, and NEVER say "I told you so". *I do point out they need to recall that sometimes the prices they tell me they are seeing on an estimate doesn't cover materials alone. *But some clients are real daredevils!) "No problem", I say. *"Don't need to go out to the house actually. Just take my original number and at 50% to it to demo the work they did. *That should cover it." *crickets...* "So it will cost MORE than we started with, even though it is halfway finished? *I thought you would take off at least a third since so much work was done." "Nope. *Can't do it." This is usually met with profane disbelief. *Astonishment. *Then they are ****ed off. They call me names. *Then they hang up. *I have never had one take me up on my offer. All I can see in my own mind is taking over someone else's warranty, a really ****ed off client to work with before we even start the job, and the possibility that they don't have the money to finish. *And with the hurt feelings from screwing themselves, it makes it hard to get paid. Worse, NO referrals from embarrassed clients. No thanks. I wish they could see me shredding their proposal. Good one. I usually get ones that say "So and So will do it for this much, why are you so much higher?" I tell them that " Every man knows what his work is worth and if you like his price better I suggest you call him then, because I don't need anymore practice " oooooooooo...I LIKE that one... |
#16
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
|
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
ChairMan wrote:
In news:6e7fed5f-b7a0-4dcd-ab5a- , spewed forth: On Mar 13, 1:05 pm, Robatoy wrote: I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. I love it. I about fell out of my chair laughing. Excellent. Here's mine. It happens a couple of times a year. "Hey Robert, what's going on?" "Dunno... how are you? Are you ready to go on that siding project?" "Well, yes and no. The good news is that we don't have as much work to do as we did when you looked at it before, but the bad news is we had someone else start it and now they can't finish it." "What happened?' "Well, they go about half way into the project and they claim they didn't allow enough to finish the job. And my wife isn't very happy as they have killed our plants around the house, and the siding isn't on straight. You might need to straighten up (????) the Hardie planks on their work." "I see.... so they are half way finished with the installation and some of it needs to be reworked?" "Yeah. We know now we should have gone with your company. We want you to finish it up. You want to come buy and measure what's left to do? I don't know... they may have even finished more than half come to think of it.... at this point we are thinking 'no big deal', we just need someone to wrap it up. And of course *chuckle* anything you could do to help us out we would sure appreciate it." I remind them they got fair market price when I estimated the job and since they expected it to be competitive at that time, there wasn't anything in there to give them. (I am always cheery about this, and NEVER say "I told you so". I do point out they need to recall that sometimes the prices they tell me they are seeing on an estimate doesn't cover materials alone. But some clients are real daredevils!) "No problem", I say. "Don't need to go out to the house actually. Just take my original number and at 50% to it to demo the work they did. That should cover it." *crickets...* "So it will cost MORE than we started with, even though it is halfway finished? I thought you would take off at least a third since so much work was done." "Nope. Can't do it." This is usually met with profane disbelief. Astonishment. Then they are ****ed off. They call me names. Then they hang up. I have never had one take me up on my offer. All I can see in my own mind is taking over someone else's warranty, a really ****ed off client to work with before we even start the job, and the possibility that they don't have the money to finish. And with the hurt feelings from screwing themselves, it makes it hard to get paid. Worse, NO referrals from embarrassed clients. No thanks. I wish they could see me shredding their proposal. Good one. I usually get ones that say "So and So will do it for this much, why are you so much higher?" I tell them that " Every man knows what his work is worth and if you like his price better I suggest you call him then, because I don't need anymore practice " I get these calls now and then, Jose and JosB just screwed up my job! What can you do for me? "Charge you hourly to complete it". And how much would that be? Probably twice what I estimated, but won't know until I ad up the hours. At that point it's usually ok, I'll call you back. That call never makes it to my phone for some reason. -- You can lead them to LINUX but you can't make them THINK ! Mandriva 2010 using KDE 4.3 Website: www.rentmyhusband.biz |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
On 3/15/10 1:05 PM, Robatoy wrote:
On Mar 15, 2:59 pm, wrote: I usually get ones that say "So and So will do it for this much, why are you so much higher?" I tell them that " Every man knows what his work is worth and if you like his price better I suggest you call him then, because I don't need anymore practice " oooooooooo...I LIKE that one... Me, too. I'm making a mental note of that one. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
In ,
Evodawg spewed forth: ChairMan wrote: In news:6e7fed5f-b7a0-4dcd-ab5a- , spewed forth: On Mar 13, 1:05 pm, Robatoy wrote: I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. I love it. I about fell out of my chair laughing. Excellent. Here's mine. It happens a couple of times a year. "Hey Robert, what's going on?" "Dunno... how are you? Are you ready to go on that siding project?" "Well, yes and no. The good news is that we don't have as much work to do as we did when you looked at it before, but the bad news is we had someone else start it and now they can't finish it." "What happened?' "Well, they go about half way into the project and they claim they didn't allow enough to finish the job. And my wife isn't very happy as they have killed our plants around the house, and the siding isn't on straight. You might need to straighten up (????) the Hardie planks on their work." "I see.... so they are half way finished with the installation and some of it needs to be reworked?" "Yeah. We know now we should have gone with your company. We want you to finish it up. You want to come buy and measure what's left to do? I don't know... they may have even finished more than half come to think of it.... at this point we are thinking 'no big deal', we just need someone to wrap it up. And of course *chuckle* anything you could do to help us out we would sure appreciate it." I remind them they got fair market price when I estimated the job and since they expected it to be competitive at that time, there wasn't anything in there to give them. (I am always cheery about this, and NEVER say "I told you so". I do point out they need to recall that sometimes the prices they tell me they are seeing on an estimate doesn't cover materials alone. But some clients are real daredevils!) "No problem", I say. "Don't need to go out to the house actually. Just take my original number and at 50% to it to demo the work they did. That should cover it." *crickets...* "So it will cost MORE than we started with, even though it is halfway finished? I thought you would take off at least a third since so much work was done." "Nope. Can't do it." This is usually met with profane disbelief. Astonishment. Then they are ****ed off. They call me names. Then they hang up. I have never had one take me up on my offer. All I can see in my own mind is taking over someone else's warranty, a really ****ed off client to work with before we even start the job, and the possibility that they don't have the money to finish. And with the hurt feelings from screwing themselves, it makes it hard to get paid. Worse, NO referrals from embarrassed clients. No thanks. I wish they could see me shredding their proposal. Good one. I usually get ones that say "So and So will do it for this much, why are you so much higher?" I tell them that " Every man knows what his work is worth and if you like his price better I suggest you call him then, because I don't need anymore practice " I get these calls now and then, Jose and JosB just screwed up my job! What can you do for me? "Charge you hourly to complete it". And how much would that be? Probably twice what I estimated, but won't know until I ad up the hours. At that point it's usually ok, I'll call you back. That call never makes it to my phone for some reason. Do you really want the phone call? |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
|
|||
|
|||
Suggestions for best school for spray finishing
In ,
Robatoy spewed forth: On Mar 15, 2:59 pm, "ChairMan" wrote: , spewed forth: On Mar 13, 1:05 pm, Robatoy wrote: I then asked him for his phone number and handed him a piece of paper. "I will have to think about your offer," I said. He wrote down his phone number and handed it to me. I, while he watched me, stuck that piece of paper in my shredder. I love it. I about fell out of my chair laughing. Excellent. Here's mine. It happens a couple of times a year. "Hey Robert, what's going on?" "Dunno... how are you? Are you ready to go on that siding project?" "Well, yes and no. The good news is that we don't have as much work to do as we did when you looked at it before, but the bad news is we had someone else start it and now they can't finish it." "What happened?' "Well, they go about half way into the project and they claim they didn't allow enough to finish the job. And my wife isn't very happy as they have killed our plants around the house, and the siding isn't on straight. You might need to straighten up (????) the Hardie planks on their work." "I see.... so they are half way finished with the installation and some of it needs to be reworked?" "Yeah. We know now we should have gone with your company. We want you to finish it up. You want to come buy and measure what's left to do? I don't know... they may have even finished more than half come to think of it.... at this point we are thinking 'no big deal', we just need someone to wrap it up. And of course *chuckle* anything you could do to help us out we would sure appreciate it." I remind them they got fair market price when I estimated the job and since they expected it to be competitive at that time, there wasn't anything in there to give them. (I am always cheery about this, and NEVER say "I told you so". I do point out they need to recall that sometimes the prices they tell me they are seeing on an estimate doesn't cover materials alone. But some clients are real daredevils!) "No problem", I say. "Don't need to go out to the house actually. Just take my original number and at 50% to it to demo the work they did. That should cover it." *crickets...* "So it will cost MORE than we started with, even though it is halfway finished? I thought you would take off at least a third since so much work was done." "Nope. Can't do it." This is usually met with profane disbelief. Astonishment. Then they are ****ed off. They call me names. Then they hang up. I have never had one take me up on my offer. All I can see in my own mind is taking over someone else's warranty, a really ****ed off client to work with before we even start the job, and the possibility that they don't have the money to finish. And with the hurt feelings from screwing themselves, it makes it hard to get paid. Worse, NO referrals from embarrassed clients. No thanks. I wish they could see me shredding their proposal. Good one. I usually get ones that say "So and So will do it for this much, why are you so much higher?" I tell them that " Every man knows what his work is worth and if you like his price better I suggest you call him then, because I don't need anymore practice " oooooooooo...I LIKE that one... I've gotten some dirty looks from it , but feel free to use itg |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Spray Finishing Equipment Inquiry | Woodworking | |||
Spray Finishing - HVLP v. Airless v. Air-assist | Woodworking | |||
HVLP spray guns from HF, suggestions?? | Metalworking | |||
Basement finishing suggestions? | Home Repair | |||
Basement finishing suggestions? | Home Ownership |