Need some real world advise on an issue:

No 4 Stanley Handyman smoother, stock blade. Very small mouth
opening, around .005 pasing shavings around .002. The sole is flat to
under a .001 according to my starrett straight edge and a source of
light.

Very hard wood, purpleheart in my case, 3" x 12"

How many minutes of smoothing are you getting from stock stanley
blades before you are rehonning the edge? Is this a 5 times and hour
event, or 10 times an hour? Or once every 3 minutes.

I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

Thoughts a

The blade is advancing back into the plane because the lever cab is
not terribly tight.

The blade is dull already.

I'm off to pick up a flat tip for a dial indicator today, and will
pull a blade next time I have to advance it and see if it still shaves
arm hairs or if the edge has dulled.

What's the wreck's consensus?

I don't work with very hard wood, but it sounds like it is slipping to me.
If it were dulling, then advancing the blade wouldn't help.

-Jack

"Alan W" wrote in message
om...
Need some real world advise on an issue:

No 4 Stanley Handyman smoother, stock blade. Very small mouth
opening, around .005 pasing shavings around .002. The sole is flat to
under a .001 according to my starrett straight edge and a source of
light.

Very hard wood, purpleheart in my case, 3" x 12"

How many minutes of smoothing are you getting from stock stanley
blades before you are rehonning the edge? Is this a 5 times and hour
event, or 10 times an hour? Or once every 3 minutes.

I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

Thoughts a

The blade is advancing back into the plane because the lever cab is
not terribly tight.

The blade is dull already.

I'm off to pick up a flat tip for a dial indicator today, and will
pull a blade next time I have to advance it and see if it still shaves
arm hairs or if the edge has dulled.

What's the wreck's consensus?

There's a simple check to see if your iron is extending past the sole, simply
flip your plane upside down and pass a small block of wood across the sole past
the iron. You will be able to hear and feel exactly what portion of the blade
is doing or not doing the cutting and have a relative sence of how much.

If that's not it, closely inspect your work in case you're planing it away from
instead of toward flat. After that I'd straight edge check the sole of your
plane.

David




I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

i agree.

randy

"Jack" wrote in message
...
I don't work with very hard wood, but it sounds like it is slipping to me.
If it were dulling, then advancing the blade wouldn't help.

-Jack

"Alan W" wrote in message
om...
Need some real world advise on an issue:

No 4 Stanley Handyman smoother, stock blade. Very small mouth
opening, around .005 pasing shavings around .002. The sole is flat to
under a .001 according to my starrett straight edge and a source of
light.

Very hard wood, purpleheart in my case, 3" x 12"

How many minutes of smoothing are you getting from stock stanley
blades before you are rehonning the edge? Is this a 5 times and hour
event, or 10 times an hour? Or once every 3 minutes.

I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

Thoughts a

The blade is advancing back into the plane because the lever cab is
not terribly tight.

The blade is dull already.

I'm off to pick up a flat tip for a dial indicator today, and will
pull a blade next time I have to advance it and see if it still shaves
arm hairs or if the edge has dulled.

What's the wreck's consensus?

Check that you have the blade in correctly...

Bob S.

"Alan W" wrote in message
om...
Need some real world advise on an issue:

No 4 Stanley Handyman smoother, stock blade. Very small mouth
opening, around .005 pasing shavings around .002. The sole is flat to
under a .001 according to my starrett straight edge and a source of
light.

Very hard wood, purpleheart in my case, 3" x 12"

How many minutes of smoothing are you getting from stock stanley
blades before you are rehonning the edge? Is this a 5 times and hour
event, or 10 times an hour? Or once every 3 minutes.

I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

Thoughts a

The blade is advancing back into the plane because the lever cab is
not terribly tight.

The blade is dull already.

I'm off to pick up a flat tip for a dial indicator today, and will
pull a blade next time I have to advance it and see if it still shaves
arm hairs or if the edge has dulled.

What's the wreck's consensus?

I've often experienced the plane sole heating up, and expanding a bit.
It either expands or warps enough to seem as though the blade has
retracted a bit.

Try just advancing the blade until you no longer get a decent cut.

Also, make sure the sole is waxed and polished so it glides easily on
the wood. Try not to push down too much, this will cut the friction
too.

You can see if your blade is really dull by holding it under a light
and looking for sparkles on the edge. Point the iron right at your
face (removed from the plane), with a light behind your head. Angle it
around until you see the sparkles. To get an idea of how this works
more easily, try it with a kitchen knife. If you don't see any
sparkles, it's not dull.

You might also try burnishing rather than honing. You're not leaving
hunks of metal behind in the wood. You're just bending the edge. A
burnishing will straighten it out. It works like a steel in the
kitchen.

-Mike

(Alan W) wrote in message . com...
Need some real world advise on an issue:

No 4 Stanley Handyman smoother, stock blade. Very small mouth
opening, around .005 pasing shavings around .002. The sole is flat to
under a .001 according to my starrett straight edge and a source of
light.

Very hard wood, purpleheart in my case, 3" x 12"

How many minutes of smoothing are you getting from stock stanley
blades before you are rehonning the edge? Is this a 5 times and hour
event, or 10 times an hour? Or once every 3 minutes.

I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

Thoughts a

The blade is advancing back into the plane because the lever cab is
not terribly tight.

The blade is dull already.

I'm off to pick up a flat tip for a dial indicator today, and will
pull a blade next time I have to advance it and see if it still shaves
arm hairs or if the edge has dulled.

What's the wreck's consensus?

"Jack" wrote in message ...
I don't work with very hard wood, but it sounds like it is slipping to me.
If it were dulling, then advancing the blade wouldn't help.


I pulled the blade tonight and it will no longer shave arm hairs.
Definely has dulled, but I will try again after I rehone the blade and
when I advance it the second time I will remove the blade to test
again.

I also picked up a flat foot for the dial indicator to check blade
position.

Alan

Alan W wrote:

I pulled the blade tonight and it will no longer shave arm hairs.
Definely has dulled, but I will try again after I rehone the blade and
when I advance it the second time I will remove the blade to test
again.

I also picked up a flat foot for the dial indicator to check blade
position.

Also check to make sure the frog is tightened down securely and not slipping.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Mike, that is a good suggestion!! Itsounds like his plane blade is dulling
quickly which means that the steel is soft. Burnishing will locally work
harden the steel as well as restore the keen edge. The hardened edge should
last longer if the assumptions are correct. Several iterations of burnishing
and using it with maybe a light honing may restore the sharpness longivity
he is looking for.

If this doesn't work, and the blade steel still appears to be too soft, the
only remaining answer is to get a replacement blade.


"Mike Reed" wrote in message
om...
I've often experienced the plane sole heating up, and expanding a bit.
It either expands or warps enough to seem as though the blade has
retracted a bit.

Try just advancing the blade until you no longer get a decent cut.

Also, make sure the sole is waxed and polished so it glides easily on
the wood. Try not to push down too much, this will cut the friction
too.

You can see if your blade is really dull by holding it under a light
and looking for sparkles on the edge. Point the iron right at your
face (removed from the plane), with a light behind your head. Angle it
around until you see the sparkles. To get an idea of how this works
more easily, try it with a kitchen knife. If you don't see any
sparkles, it's not dull.

You might also try burnishing rather than honing. You're not leaving
hunks of metal behind in the wood. You're just bending the edge. A
burnishing will straighten it out. It works like a steel in the
kitchen.

-Mike

(Alan W) wrote in message
. com...
Need some real world advise on an issue:

No 4 Stanley Handyman smoother, stock blade. Very small mouth
opening, around .005 pasing shavings around .002. The sole is flat to
under a .001 according to my starrett straight edge and a source of
light.

Very hard wood, purpleheart in my case, 3" x 12"

How many minutes of smoothing are you getting from stock stanley
blades before you are rehonning the edge? Is this a 5 times and hour
event, or 10 times an hour? Or once every 3 minutes.

I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

Thoughts a

The blade is advancing back into the plane because the lever cab is
not terribly tight.

The blade is dull already.

I'm off to pick up a flat tip for a dial indicator today, and will
pull a blade next time I have to advance it and see if it still shaves
arm hairs or if the edge has dulled.

What's the wreck's consensus?

"Bruce C." wrote:
Mike, that is a good suggestion!! Itsounds like his plane blade is dulling
quickly which means that the steel is soft. Burnishing will locally work
harden the steel as well as restore the keen edge. The hardened edge should
last longer if the assumptions are correct. Several iterations of burnishing
and using it with maybe a light honing may restore the sharpness longivity
he is looking for.
If this doesn't work, and the blade steel still appears to be too soft, the
only remaining answer is to get a replacement blade.

Which makes me wonder what blade is in it now. I don't think this
has been addressed as yet. Is this an old Stanley blade, one post
'60s, or a new one from the local BORG? That alone may be the
problem. You can't sharpen taffy.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:00:29 GMT, dave in fairfax
wrote:

"Bruce C." wrote:
Mike, that is a good suggestion!! Itsounds like his plane blade is dulling
quickly which means that the steel is soft. Burnishing will locally work
harden the steel as well as restore the keen edge. The hardened edge should
last longer if the assumptions are correct. Several iterations of burnishing
and using it with maybe a light honing may restore the sharpness longivity
he is looking for.
If this doesn't work, and the blade steel still appears to be too soft, the
only remaining answer is to get a replacement blade.

Which makes me wonder what blade is in it now. I don't think this
has been addressed as yet. Is this an old Stanley blade, one post
'60s, or a new one from the local BORG? That alone may be the
problem. You can't sharpen taffy.

Dave in Fairfax


the handyman line wasn't stanley's finest...

Bridger wrote:
the handyman line wasn't stanley's finest...

OOOH Yeah! I know that Handyman was Stanley's finest hour. But
that steel was better than the stuff they're putting out now or
the stuff Buck sells. It just made me wonder what we're dealing
withis all.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

(Alan W) wrote in message . com...
Need some real world advise on an issue:

No 4 Stanley Handyman smoother, stock blade.

Junk the blade. Get either a Hock high carbon replacement or an A2
cryo treated blade. Even these might not help all that much, seeing
as you're using purpleheart. This wood is not only hard, it's full of
silica, which will dull your blade no matter what you're doing.
Assuming the frog is secure, and your cap iron is tight, *do *not*
advance the blade to keep it cutting. You'll only get poor planing
results. When the plane stops cutting, it's time to rehone.

You also might want to mind the bevel of the blade. If it's slightly
dubbed/rounded, the clearance angle (the delta of bevel and the frog
angle, enabling the blade to actually cut into the wood) may be
effectively reduced to zero at the cutting edge, and your plane will
stop cutting.

Use of a honing jig or if honing freehand - a side-to-side motion -
should help solve this.

IMNSHO, the best solution is to avoid planing purpleheart if you can.
Seriously. It's closer to working stone than woodworking. Planing
purpleheart is like engaging BAD in an intellectual debate - you're
dealing with a very dense subject that will quickly dull everything in
sight.

Good luck, you'll need it.

O'Deen

dave in fairfax wrote:

OOOH Yeah! I know that Handyman was Stanley's finest hour. But
that steel was better than the stuff they're putting out now or
the stuff Buck sells. It just made me wonder what we're dealing
withis all.

Dunno, the steel in my new English Stanley seems fine to me. Maybe because
I mostly limit myself to straight grained, well-behaved, medium-hard woods.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan wrote:
Dunno, the steel in my new English Stanley seems fine to me. Maybe because
I mostly limit myself to straight grained, well-behaved, medium-hard woods.

Hone it and hone th stanley I gave you and try them side-by-side.
I'm glad you like the newer plane, but I'll stick with my old
ones. You chuck is on the way, BTW.

Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/

dave in fairfax wrote:

Hone it and hone th stanley I gave you and try them side-by-side.
I'm glad you like the newer plane, but I'll stick with my old
ones.

I'm going to have a hone fest real soon now. Get everything out and honed
to the same angles and standards of scariness, so it will be a fair
comparison.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On 17 Mar 2004 11:15:51 -0800, Alan W wrote:

Need some real world advise on an issue:

No 4 Stanley Handyman smoother, stock blade. Very small mouth
opening, around .005 pasing shavings around .002. The sole is flat to
under a .001 according to my starrett straight edge and a source of
light.

Very hard wood, purpleheart in my case, 3" x 12"

How many minutes of smoothing are you getting from stock stanley
blades before you are rehonning the edge? Is this a 5 times and hour
event, or 10 times an hour? Or once every 3 minutes.

I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

Thoughts a

The blade is advancing back into the plane because the lever cab is
not terribly tight.

My money is on this. If I'm facing something that's tough then I make
sure to tighten my lever cap. As somebody else mentioned it may
possibly be a loose frog.

Also I bet there's so much backlash built into that plane that it's
not funny, which is something you should be aware of.

The blade is dull already.

If your blade is dulling that quickly then the steel of your blade
must have a hardness not much above that of purpleheart.

My blades dull but the only noticeable effect is that it's harder to
push the plane - it's still taking shavings. Eventually I get sick of
it and re-hone.

My irons will hold an edge longer than yours but an iron becoming
unusable in a few minutes beggars belief even if it's a crappy iron
(and it's likely to be).


I'm off to pick up a flat tip for a dial indicator today, and will
pull a blade next time I have to advance it and see if it still shaves
arm hairs or if the edge has dulled.

You'll find that it probably wont take arm hairs but it's still sharp
enough to take shavings, which is what your report seems to indicate
ie. you just need to advance the blade.

Even my A2 irons wont cut arm hairs after I've used them for a short
while.


What's the wreck's consensus?

Dump the Stanley and buy a Lie Nielsen if you're going to be doing a
lot of work with hard hardwoods. Planing purpleheart with a Stanley
strikes me as certifiable.

--

Frank

Alan W schreef
I find I get 3-4 good minutes of shavings at a stroke every 5-8
seconds, and then I need to advance the blade just a fraction to keep
shaving.

====
I pulled the blade tonight and it will no longer shave arm hairs.
Definitely has dulled, but I will try again after I rehone the blade and
when I advance it the second time I will remove the blade to test
again.

+ + +
Yes, many hard woods (not "hardwoods") will dull an edge fairly quickly. Try
wengé or panga panga and you will express stand time not in minutes, but in
strokes.

Advancing a blade will work because a plane will work reasonably well with
even a somewhat dull edge.
PvR

Frank Shute schreef
My blades dull but the only noticeable effect is that it's harder to
push the plane - it's still taking shavings.

+ + +
I suggest you look at your shavings. These will look different, too.
PvR

Patrick Olguin schreef
Even these might not help all that much, seeing
as you're using purpleheart. This wood is not only hard, it's full of
silica [...]

+ + +
Nope. It isn't. Not resistant to teredo either.
PvR

PVR states:

Patrick Olguin schreef
Even these might not help all that much, seeing
as you're using purpleheart. This wood is not only hard, it's full of
silica [...]

+ + +
Nope. It isn't. Not resistant to teredo either

According to William Lincoln, it exudes a gummy residue if heated by dull
tools. Might be messy. I've always made sure tools for purpleheart are
especially sharp. While teredo (shipworm) is not a particular problem outside
oceans (docks, ships, boats, similar structures), powder post beetle can chew
up the sapwood.

Charlie Self
"The function of posterity is to look after itself." Dylan Thomas

Patrick Olguin schreef
Even these might not help all that much, seeing
as you're using purpleheart. This wood is not only hard, it's full of
silica [...]

PvR states:
Nope. It isn't. Not resistant to teredo either

Charlie Self schreef
According to William Lincoln, it exudes a gummy residue if heated by dull
tools. Might be messy.

+ + +
That is possible, but only if the relevant tree was damaged during its life.
It is not the rule.
+ + +

I've always made sure tools for purpleheart are
especially sharp. While teredo (shipworm) is not a particular problem
outside oceans (docks, ships, boats, similar structures), powder post beetle
can chew up the sapwood.

+ + +
Sapwood is never resistant to anything, no matter what wood you are talking
about ...
PvR