Building a bed for my 6-month-old, who will soon have outgrown his crib.

I'm thinking of trying to use "fox tenon" joints, whereby a couple of slots
are cut in the tenon, small wedges are placed in the slots, and as the tenon
is driven into the mortise, the tenon expands, giving a very tight fit
indeed.

As I understand it, if you make the wedges too long, the tenon shoulders
won't reach the piece with the mortise, and you'll never get the thing out.
You only get one chance to get it right.

I've never done anything like this before. Any tips? I'm intending to use
beech, if it makes any difference.

- Bernie

Hey Bernie,

Keeping those wedges small...real small (width), and mocking up your joint,
really helps.

By doing the mock up, you can calculate the inside angles of your mortises,
to match the spread you get (should only be a couple of degrees) when
inserting your wedges into the tenon.

I think the best tip would be not to use them, unless gluing the joint, for
some reason compromises your project.

Cheers,

aw

" Keeping those wedges small...real small (width), and mocking up your
joint,
really helps.


I meant thickness...wedges should be real thin...

cheers,

aw

Bernie,
Here are a couple of suggestions for you to consider...
1) As A-Dubya says, do a mock-up;
2) Drill holes through your tenons at the bottom of your wedge kerfs. The
drill diameter should be slightly wider than the width of your kerf;(helps
keep your stock from plitting outside the mortice later)
3) Make your mortice shoulders slightly angled outward, to compensate for
the spread of the tenon when the wedges are inserted and the tenon drawn
closed;
4) Make the thickest part of your wedges the width of the kerf plus the
angle of one of your shoulder angles;
5) The wedges at their thinnest part should be the width of your kerf...
maybe just ***a tad*** thinner.
6) The wedges should be a little shorter than the length of your kerf.

When the joint is drawn closed, the hole helps prevent splitting of your
rails outside of the tenon. The shoulders of the tenon will spread apart and
fill the mortice.

Don't shy from this joint...it's a good one and it'll work if you take the
time to watch carefully the widths of wedges and the shoulder angles in the
mortice. Practice a joint or two on some scrap stock.

Good luck
Larry

--
Americans

"Bernie Ross" wrote in message
...
Building a bed for my 6-month-old, who will soon have outgrown his crib.

I'm thinking of trying to use "fox tenon" joints, whereby a couple of
slots
are cut in the tenon, small wedges are placed in the slots, and as the
tenon
is driven into the mortise, the tenon expands, giving a very tight fit
indeed.

As I understand it, if you make the wedges too long, the tenon shoulders
won't reach the piece with the mortise, and you'll never get the thing
out.
You only get one chance to get it right.

I've never done anything like this before. Any tips? I'm intending to
use
beech, if it makes any difference.

- Bernie

Bernie Ross wrote:

Building a bed for my 6-month-old, who will soon have outgrown his crib.

I'm thinking of trying to use "fox tenon" joints, whereby a couple of slots
are cut in the tenon, small wedges are placed in the slots, and as the tenon
is driven into the mortise, the tenon expands, giving a very tight fit
indeed.

As I understand it, if you make the wedges too long, the tenon shoulders
won't reach the piece with the mortise, and you'll never get the thing out.
You only get one chance to get it right.

I've never done anything like this before. Any tips? I'm intending to use
beech, if it makes any difference.

- Bernie



Build one that is half of the finished size, just like someone took a
finished joint and cut it in half for a picture. since this one will have
an open face, instead of being boxed in, you cah gently pry the tenoned
piece out of the moriced piece.
Youmight als obe able toleave the whole depth of the mortice and just cut
off the face part, to get the full seating width of the mortice. Use a
piece of plexiglass as a cover while seating the tenon.
Also, drill a small hole wat the inner end of the split, it's supposed to
help prevent splitting.
Joe

This technique was widely used on all heavy duty joinery in the past when
glues were not as reliable and seasonal movement changes would ultimately
result in glue failure. It is still widely used in custom cabinetry which
has through tenons, often with a contrasting color. It also makes it
unnecessary for clamps during gluing, though I use one to pull the joint up
tight while knocking in the wedge.

Bernard R

"Bernie Ross" wrote in message
...
Building a bed for my 6-month-old, who will soon have outgrown his crib.

I'm thinking of trying to use "fox tenon" joints, whereby a couple of
slots
are cut in the tenon, small wedges are placed in the slots, and as the
tenon
is driven into the mortise, the tenon expands, giving a very tight fit
indeed.

As I understand it, if you make the wedges too long, the tenon shoulders
won't reach the piece with the mortise, and you'll never get the thing
out.
You only get one chance to get it right.

I've never done anything like this before. Any tips? I'm intending to
use
beech, if it makes any difference.

- Bernie

Bernard,
If I understand your post correctly, you're thinking of wedged
through-tenons. Bernie is attempting to make blind wedged-tenons. Still
though, I agree with you on the clamps. Even with a blind joint, you may
need the power of strong clamps to pull the joint completely closed.

Bernie, there is one thing I forgot to mention. Make sure your tenon is
shorter than the depth of the mortice by about an 1/16" or so. And remember
to do the blind mock-up. Also, I think Joe may have a good idea... I never
thought of that. I think he means to say to build a joint using short pieces
of lumber, the re-saw the joint in half so you can see the mechanics of it.
I may even do this myself someday so I can get better at these joints.

One more thing, make sure you have everything ready and you've rehearsed
before the actual glue-up. I would probably use Titebond "Extend" just to
get a little extra time before the glue starts getting cranky.

Larry

--
Americans

"Bernard Randall" wrote in message
...
This technique was widely used on all heavy duty joinery in the past when
glues were not as reliable and seasonal movement changes would ultimately
result in glue failure. It is still widely used in custom cabinetry which
has through tenons, often with a contrasting color. It also makes it
unnecessary for clamps during gluing, though I use one to pull the joint
up
tight while knocking in the wedge.

Bernard R

"Bernie Ross" wrote in message
...
Building a bed for my 6-month-old, who will soon have outgrown his crib.

I'm thinking of trying to use "fox tenon" joints, whereby a couple of
slots
are cut in the tenon, small wedges are placed in the slots, and as the
tenon
is driven into the mortise, the tenon expands, giving a very tight fit
indeed.

As I understand it, if you make the wedges too long, the tenon shoulders
won't reach the piece with the mortise, and you'll never get the thing
out.
You only get one chance to get it right.

I've never done anything like this before. Any tips? I'm intending to
use
beech, if it makes any difference.

- Bernie

Larry,

Mea Culpa, I sometimes get confused by the trans-Atlantic terminology
differences as in this case.

Thanks for pointing out the error.

Bernard R

"Lawrence R Horgan" wrote in message
...
Bernard,
If I understand your post correctly, you're thinking of wedged
through-tenons. Bernie is attempting to make blind wedged-tenons. Still
though, I agree with you on the clamps. Even with a blind joint, you may
need the power of strong clamps to pull the joint completely closed.

Bernie, there is one thing I forgot to mention. Make sure your tenon is
shorter than the depth of the mortice by about an 1/16" or so. And
remember
to do the blind mock-up. Also, I think Joe may have a good idea... I never
thought of that. I think he means to say to build a joint using short
pieces
of lumber, the re-saw the joint in half so you can see the mechanics of
it.
I may even do this myself someday so I can get better at these joints.

One more thing, make sure you have everything ready and you've rehearsed
before the actual glue-up. I would probably use Titebond "Extend" just to
get a little extra time before the glue starts getting cranky.

Larry

--
Americans

"Bernard Randall" wrote in message
...
This technique was widely used on all heavy duty joinery in the past
when
glues were not as reliable and seasonal movement changes would
ultimately
result in glue failure. It is still widely used in custom cabinetry
which
has through tenons, often with a contrasting color. It also makes it
unnecessary for clamps during gluing, though I use one to pull the joint
up
tight while knocking in the wedge.

Bernard R

"Bernie Ross" wrote in message
...
Building a bed for my 6-month-old, who will soon have outgrown his
crib.

I'm thinking of trying to use "fox tenon" joints, whereby a couple of
slots
are cut in the tenon, small wedges are placed in the slots, and as the
tenon
is driven into the mortise, the tenon expands, giving a very tight fit
indeed.

As I understand it, if you make the wedges too long, the tenon
shoulders
won't reach the piece with the mortise, and you'll never get the thing
out.
You only get one chance to get it right.

I've never done anything like this before. Any tips? I'm intending
to
use
beech, if it makes any difference.

- Bernie