I just purchased a new contractors saw and I think it vibrates too
much. I don't want to spell out the brand yet (for people using search
engines) but let's just say that it's green, cost $649, was
recommended by Fine Woodworking as a best buy, and comes from Taiwan
via the "Great White North". Something like vibration is hard to
quantify so I'll describe it in terms of the nickel test. My father
has a 40-year-old Delta Rockwell contractor style saw that does not
vibrate at all. The nickel will stand up forever. It has a standard
V-belt, not a powertwist link belt. The saw I'm replacing is a $100
Delta benchtop saw which also passes the nickel test but is not nearly
as smooth as it's grandfather. Those two saws form my basis for
comparison.

When I first turned on my new saw, not only did the nickel fall down
immediately, it started moving around the table slightly. I could see
the vibration in the table and especially in the motor. After wearing
in the belt and making some tweaks to perfect the pulley alignment,
the vibrations reduced somewhat but they still seem excessive to me. I
stand three nickels on the table and when I turn on the saw, one falls
down immediately, one usually falls down after 3-5 seconds, and the
third falls down after 10-15 seconds. I can no longer see the
vibrations in the table but can feel them, and I can see the motor
vibrating slightly. Is the in the range of normal for a new
contractors saw or does this saw have a problem?

I aligned the pulleys using a straight edge as described in the
manual. I've run the motor with the belt off and it is smooth. The
blade spins smoothly as well. I tried two other v-belts that I picked
up at automotive stores. I've ordered (but have not recieved) a 3/8
powertwist link belt for it because I couldn't find one locally.
However, if this saw has some kind of problem, I want to return it or
exchange it, not mask the problem with a link belt.

Thanks,
Scott

Does the belt vibrate when the saw is running? If so you probably have
found your problem. If the motor and blade spin smoothly with out the belt,
you nave narrowed it down. Take a close look at your pullys also. Do the
wobble?

hey, you spent a modest amount of money on a saw, and modest performance
is what you will receive. Does it cut wood ok? is it aligned? does it
have enough power to cut through your thickest, hardest wood? is the
fence accurate, or do you have to measure every cut with a tape measure?

I wouldn't worry about a vibration that is low enough to allow one of
your nickels to stand up for a quarter minute. If you want to hear a
sad story of vibration look up my complaints about my previous Delta
band saw in Google archives. Now THAT was a mover and shaker!

dave

Scott Duncan wrote:
I just purchased a new contractors saw and I think it vibrates too
much. I don't want to spell out the brand yet (for people using search
engines) but let's just say that it's green, cost $649, was
recommended by Fine Woodworking as a best buy, and comes from Taiwan
via the "Great White North". Something like vibration is hard to
quantify so I'll describe it in terms of the nickel test. My father
has a 40-year-old Delta Rockwell contractor style saw that does not
vibrate at all. The nickel will stand up forever. It has a standard
V-belt, not a powertwist link belt. The saw I'm replacing is a $100
Delta benchtop saw which also passes the nickel test but is not nearly
as smooth as it's grandfather. Those two saws form my basis for
comparison.

When I first turned on my new saw, not only did the nickel fall down
immediately, it started moving around the table slightly. I could see
the vibration in the table and especially in the motor. After wearing
in the belt and making some tweaks to perfect the pulley alignment,
the vibrations reduced somewhat but they still seem excessive to me. I
stand three nickels on the table and when I turn on the saw, one falls
down immediately, one usually falls down after 3-5 seconds, and the
third falls down after 10-15 seconds. I can no longer see the
vibrations in the table but can feel them, and I can see the motor
vibrating slightly. Is the in the range of normal for a new
contractors saw or does this saw have a problem?

I aligned the pulleys using a straight edge as described in the
manual. I've run the motor with the belt off and it is smooth. The
blade spins smoothly as well. I tried two other v-belts that I picked
up at automotive stores. I've ordered (but have not recieved) a 3/8
powertwist link belt for it because I couldn't find one locally.
However, if this saw has some kind of problem, I want to return it or
exchange it, not mask the problem with a link belt.

Thanks,
Scott

Leon wrote:

Does the belt vibrate when the saw is running? If so you probably have
found your problem. If the motor and blade spin smoothly with out the belt,
you nave narrowed it down. Take a close look at your pullys also. Do the
wobble?

The belt vibrated a lot when I first turned on the saw but it has quieted down
quite a bit. It doesn’t seem to be vibrating any more than the motor is. I would
guess that the motor is oscillating about 1/32 of an inch. This gets passed to
the table as a from-to-back type of vibration that is more noticeable when I
place my hand on the front edge of the saw versus the top of the table. Nickels
placed parallel to the saw blade stand up longer than nickels placed
perpendicular to the blade. The pulleys are fine.

I made one cross cut and it cut fine but how much vibration is acceptable in a
contractors saw? Given that the belt is so long and the pulleys so small, I
suspect that will always be a little vibration but how much is too much? Should
a nickel stand up indefinitely on a contractors saw? Is there some other way to
quantify this?

Thanks,
Scott

Bay Area Dave wrote:

hey, you spent a modest amount of money on a saw, and modest performance
is what you will receive. Does it cut wood ok? is it aligned? does it
have enough power to cut through your thickest, hardest wood? is the
fence accurate, or do you have to measure every cut with a tape measure?


It's a nice powerfull saw with a great fence but I'm having a hard time
believing that they all vibrate this much out of the box.



I wouldn't worry about a vibration that is low enough to allow one of
your nickels to stand up for a quarter minute. If you want to hear a
sad story of vibration look up my complaints about my previous Delta
band saw in Google archives. Now THAT was a mover and shaker!

dave

Scott Duncan wrote:
I just purchased a new contractors saw and I think it vibrates too
much. I don't want to spell out the brand yet (for people using search
engines) but let's just say that it's green, cost $649, was
recommended by Fine Woodworking as a best buy, and comes from Taiwan
via the "Great White North". Something like vibration is hard to
quantify so I'll describe it in terms of the nickel test. My father
has a 40-year-old Delta Rockwell contractor style saw that does not
vibrate at all. The nickel will stand up forever. It has a standard
V-belt, not a powertwist link belt. The saw I'm replacing is a $100
Delta benchtop saw which also passes the nickel test but is not nearly
as smooth as it's grandfather. Those two saws form my basis for
comparison.

When I first turned on my new saw, not only did the nickel fall down
immediately, it started moving around the table slightly. I could see
the vibration in the table and especially in the motor. After wearing
in the belt and making some tweaks to perfect the pulley alignment,
the vibrations reduced somewhat but they still seem excessive to me. I
stand three nickels on the table and when I turn on the saw, one falls
down immediately, one usually falls down after 3-5 seconds, and the
third falls down after 10-15 seconds. I can no longer see the
vibrations in the table but can feel them, and I can see the motor
vibrating slightly. Is the in the range of normal for a new
contractors saw or does this saw have a problem?

I aligned the pulleys using a straight edge as described in the
manual. I've run the motor with the belt off and it is smooth. The
blade spins smoothly as well. I tried two other v-belts that I picked
up at automotive stores. I've ordered (but have not recieved) a 3/8
powertwist link belt for it because I couldn't find one locally.
However, if this saw has some kind of problem, I want to return it or
exchange it, not mask the problem with a link belt.

Thanks,
Scott

I think alink bet is worth a try. I was using my dad's delta contractor saw
and it make me uncomfortable because of the vibration...

I'm used to a cabinet saw, but this just seemed wrong.... A link belt
cleared up the problem.

I suppose you could bug the vendor for a new belt, but maybe they just have
crappy belts.

Even if a link belt did NOTHING to solve your problem, you could either use
it on another tool or save it for when a belt goes bad.

-s

"Scott Duncan" wrote in message
om...
I just purchased a new contractors saw and I think it vibrates too
much. I don't want to spell out the brand yet (for people using search
engines) but let's just say that it's green, cost $649, was
recommended by Fine Woodworking as a best buy, and comes from Taiwan
via the "Great White North". Something like vibration is hard to
quantify so I'll describe it in terms of the nickel test. My father
has a 40-year-old Delta Rockwell contractor style saw that does not
vibrate at all. The nickel will stand up forever. It has a standard
V-belt, not a powertwist link belt. The saw I'm replacing is a $100
Delta benchtop saw which also passes the nickel test but is not nearly
as smooth as it's grandfather. Those two saws form my basis for
comparison.

When I first turned on my new saw, not only did the nickel fall down
immediately, it started moving around the table slightly. I could see
the vibration in the table and especially in the motor. After wearing
in the belt and making some tweaks to perfect the pulley alignment,
the vibrations reduced somewhat but they still seem excessive to me. I
stand three nickels on the table and when I turn on the saw, one falls
down immediately, one usually falls down after 3-5 seconds, and the
third falls down after 10-15 seconds. I can no longer see the
vibrations in the table but can feel them, and I can see the motor
vibrating slightly. Is the in the range of normal for a new
contractors saw or does this saw have a problem?

I aligned the pulleys using a straight edge as described in the
manual. I've run the motor with the belt off and it is smooth. The
blade spins smoothly as well. I tried two other v-belts that I picked
up at automotive stores. I've ordered (but have not recieved) a 3/8
powertwist link belt for it because I couldn't find one locally.
However, if this saw has some kind of problem, I want to return it or
exchange it, not mask the problem with a link belt.

Thanks,
Scott

Link belts help dampen motor oscillations, too. You want the saw to be
steady enough, in my opinion, that a carelessly neglected measuring device,
left on the table at startup, won't dance toward the spinning blade as you
try to tell yourself not to reach....

"Scott Duncan" wrote in message
...
Bay Area Dave wrote:

hey, you spent a modest amount of money on a saw, and modest performance
is what you will receive. Does it cut wood ok? is it aligned?

It's a nice powerfull saw with a great fence but I'm having a hard time
believing that they all vibrate this much out of the box.

"Scott Duncan" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

The belt vibrated a lot when I first turned on the saw but it has quieted
down
quite a bit. It doesn't seem to be vibrating any more than the motor is. I
would
guess that the motor is oscillating about 1/32 of an inch. This gets
passed to
the table as a from-to-back type of vibration that is more noticeable when
I
place my hand on the front edge of the saw versus the top of the table.
Nickels
placed parallel to the saw blade stand up longer than nickels placed
perpendicular to the blade. The pulleys are fine.

If the motor vibrates with out the belt on the saw I would try removing the
pulley from the motor and see if the vibration disappears. The pulley may
be out of ballance. There are better pulyes out there and usually sold with
link belts.

it's hard to tell if it's bad from here, Scott, but if a nickel will
balance for 15 seconds, it can't be AWFUL, it's maybe just not what you
expected?

dave

Scott Duncan wrote:
Bay Area Dave wrote:


hey, you spent a modest amount of money on a saw, and modest performance
is what you will receive. Does it cut wood ok? is it aligned? does it
have enough power to cut through your thickest, hardest wood? is the
fence accurate, or do you have to measure every cut with a tape measure?



It's a nice powerfull saw with a great fence but I'm having a hard time
believing that they all vibrate this much out of the box.



I wouldn't worry about a vibration that is low enough to allow one of
your nickels to stand up for a quarter minute. If you want to hear a
sad story of vibration look up my complaints about my previous Delta
band saw in Google archives. Now THAT was a mover and shaker!

dave

Scott Duncan wrote:

I just purchased a new contractors saw and I think it vibrates too
much. I don't want to spell out the brand yet (for people using search
engines) but let's just say that it's green, cost $649, was
recommended by Fine Woodworking as a best buy, and comes from Taiwan
via the "Great White North". Something like vibration is hard to
quantify so I'll describe it in terms of the nickel test. My father
has a 40-year-old Delta Rockwell contractor style saw that does not
vibrate at all. The nickel will stand up forever. It has a standard
V-belt, not a powertwist link belt. The saw I'm replacing is a $100
Delta benchtop saw which also passes the nickel test but is not nearly
as smooth as it's grandfather. Those two saws form my basis for
comparison.

When I first turned on my new saw, not only did the nickel fall down
immediately, it started moving around the table slightly. I could see
the vibration in the table and especially in the motor. After wearing
in the belt and making some tweaks to perfect the pulley alignment,
the vibrations reduced somewhat but they still seem excessive to me. I
stand three nickels on the table and when I turn on the saw, one falls
down immediately, one usually falls down after 3-5 seconds, and the
third falls down after 10-15 seconds. I can no longer see the
vibrations in the table but can feel them, and I can see the motor
vibrating slightly. Is the in the range of normal for a new
contractors saw or does this saw have a problem?

I aligned the pulleys using a straight edge as described in the
manual. I've run the motor with the belt off and it is smooth. The
blade spins smoothly as well. I tried two other v-belts that I picked
up at automotive stores. I've ordered (but have not recieved) a 3/8
powertwist link belt for it because I couldn't find one locally.
However, if this saw has some kind of problem, I want to return it or
exchange it, not mask the problem with a link belt.

Thanks,
Scott

In article ,
Scott Duncan wrote:
Leon wrote:

Does the belt vibrate when the saw is running? If so you probably have
found your problem. If the motor and blade spin smoothly with out the belt,
you nave narrowed it down. Take a close look at your pullys also. Do the
wobble?

The belt vibrated a lot when I first turned on the saw but it has quieted down
quite a bit. It doesn’t seem to be vibrating any more than the motor is. I
would guess that the motor is oscillating about 1/32 of an inch. This gets
passed to the table as a from-to-back type of vibration that is more
noticeable when I place my hand on the front edge of the saw versus the top
of the table. Nickels placed parallel to the saw blade stand up longer than
nickels placed perpendicular to the blade. The pulleys are fine.

This sounds like a problem with the belt or the pulleys.
either the belt isn't 'constant thickness', and it rides in/out a bit when
the thin/thick part hits a pulley, or one (or both) pulleys have a bit of
an inconsistency in the spacing between the V sides. again resulting in
the belt riding in/out a bit when it hits the wide/narrow spot.

It *could* be something as simple as one of the pulley's is a bit 'off-center',
on the mounting shaft, too.

I think you said you'd tried several belts, with no difference -- which
*probably* means that the belt is not the culprit.

I made one cross cut and it cut fine but how much vibration is acceptable in a
contractors saw? Given that the belt is so long and the pulleys so small, I
suspect that will always be a little vibration but how much is too much? Should
a nickel stand up indefinitely on a contractors saw? Is there some other way to
quantify this?

_Real_ 'quantification' is available. it just takes *expensive* equipment.
grin

very rough measurement can be accomplished using some _new_ dimes, and some
rubber cement. how many dimes do you have to glue together to get a stack
that will remain upright indefinitely? And do they stay in place, or do
they 'walk'?

Getting a single dime to stand upright is not easy. A stack of 4 will
stand on most anything.

Scott:

I got a similar problem with my (airplane engine)
contractor's saw. I found it is with my pully.
It was tight on the arbor. I haven't fixed it
yet as I'm moving, but I found a letter or hint
in one the magazines that pin-pointed the
exact problem.

Check your pulley on the arbor.

Michael

I got my link belt today and it solved my vibration problem completely. It’s
absolutely unbelievable that the a little red belt could make such a big
difference. I could see and feel immediately that the vibration was gone but
did the nickel test anyway. I gathered up nine nickels and placed them on the
saw when it was off. I turned on the saw and four of them fell during the
initial transient but the other five stayed up. I let the saw run for a full
minute and none of them fell. Then I shut the saw off and they continued to
stand during the spin down and were still standing after the saw stopped. Then
I got cocky and got together a few dimes. With the saw off, I could only get
one of the three dimes to stand up - the others were rounded or something, I
don’t know. Anyway, it fell during the initial startup transient. But I stood
it back up and it stayed up! It was still standing when I turned off the saw
~30 seconds later.

There should be a law passed that all contractors saws come standard with link
belts. Maybe the saw manufacturers figure they will sell more cabinet saws if
the equip their contractor saws with crappy belts.

Note that the General saw and some others take a 3/8 link belt, not the more
common 1/2 inch belt. If you order a link belt from Amazon.com you will get the
1/2 belt. The Fennel Powertwist belt brochure itself is confusing because it
says “works for 3/8, 1/2, and 5/8 belts” and Woodcraft places the brochure
right next to the only size they stock, 1/2. It leads you to believe that the
one belt works for all three size but it doesn’t. The part number for the 3/8
is FEN 3L and I ended up ordering mine from westerntool.com

I want to thank everyone who commented on this thread - your comments were very
helpfull and saved me from the mistake returning the saw to the place I
purchased it because of the excessive vibration.

Scott

Stephen Meier wrote:

I think alink bet is worth a try. I was using my dad's delta contractor saw
and it make me uncomfortable because of the vibration...

I'm used to a cabinet saw, but this just seemed wrong.... A link belt
cleared up the problem.

I suppose you could bug the vendor for a new belt, but maybe they just have
crappy belts.

Even if a link belt did NOTHING to solve your problem, you could either use
it on another tool or save it for when a belt goes bad.

-s

"Scott Duncan" wrote in message
om...
I just purchased a new contractors saw and I think it vibrates too
much. I don't want to spell out the brand yet (for people using search
engines) but let's just say that it's green, cost $649, was
recommended by Fine Woodworking as a best buy, and comes from Taiwan
via the "Great White North". Something like vibration is hard to
quantify so I'll describe it in terms of the nickel test. My father
has a 40-year-old Delta Rockwell contractor style saw that does not
vibrate at all. The nickel will stand up forever. It has a standard
V-belt, not a powertwist link belt. The saw I'm replacing is a $100
Delta benchtop saw which also passes the nickel test but is not nearly
as smooth as it's grandfather. Those two saws form my basis for
comparison.

When I first turned on my new saw, not only did the nickel fall down
immediately, it started moving around the table slightly. I could see
the vibration in the table and especially in the motor. After wearing
in the belt and making some tweaks to perfect the pulley alignment,
the vibrations reduced somewhat but they still seem excessive to me. I
stand three nickels on the table and when I turn on the saw, one falls
down immediately, one usually falls down after 3-5 seconds, and the
third falls down after 10-15 seconds. I can no longer see the
vibrations in the table but can feel them, and I can see the motor
vibrating slightly. Is the in the range of normal for a new
contractors saw or does this saw have a problem?

I aligned the pulleys using a straight edge as described in the
manual. I've run the motor with the belt off and it is smooth. The
blade spins smoothly as well. I tried two other v-belts that I picked
up at automotive stores. I've ordered (but have not recieved) a 3/8
powertwist link belt for it because I couldn't find one locally.
However, if this saw has some kind of problem, I want to return it or
exchange it, not mask the problem with a link belt.

Thanks,
Scott

"Scott Duncan" wrote in message
...

I gathered up nine nickels and placed them on the
saw when it was off.

Then
I got cocky and got together a few dimes.

So big deal, you got 75¢ to stand up. I can put a dollar bill on my saw and
it stays put. Tomorrow I'm going to try it with a FIVE dollar bill.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news:LUu5c.25224
So big deal, you got 75¢ to stand up. I can put a dollar bill on my saw and
it stays put. Tomorrow I'm going to try it with a FIVE dollar bill.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

What's the problem Ed, couldn't get a nickel or dime to stand up?

Scott