I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?

Thanks

Upscale wrote:

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting.

Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
into the sawblade first)...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

In article ,
says...
I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?

Thanks

Well I do those on the radial arm saw, but all the same ... when I can't
see exactly where I might be going because the original mark is facing
away from me, I get my 6" engineer's square out and a marking knife and
I scribe all 'round so I CAN see where the blade enters the wood
relative to the mark - then adjust as necessary.

Knife is much more accurate than pen, especially for this job, somewhat
prevents splintering and I find my ageing eyes can pick a knife mark out
more easily than the Rotring.

That little square is one of the tools I'd most hate to give up.

-P.

"Peter Huebner" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...
I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table
saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I
am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going
to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?

Thanks

Well I do those on the radial arm saw, but all the same ... when I can't
see exactly where I might be going because the original mark is facing
away from me, I get my 6" engineer's square out and a marking knife and
I scribe all 'round so I CAN see where the blade enters the wood
relative to the mark - then adjust as necessary.

Knife is much more accurate than pen, especially for this job, somewhat
prevents splintering and I find my ageing eyes can pick a knife mark out
more easily than the Rotring.

That little square is one of the tools I'd most hate to give up.

-P.

I have also put down a couple of strips masking tape in front of the blade
on my table saw. Then I take a straight edge and place it along side the
saw blade and score a line with a knife. Then I peal away one side of the
tape and I now have a reference of where the side of the blade is. You
could also draw a pencil mark.

I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.

Larry C

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
into the sawblade first)...

I *do* put reference marks on the sides and bottom of the wood. Problem is
sitting in the wheelchair, I can't feed the wood and lean over it at the
same time to see where the leading edge is going into the blade. However, it
did occur to me to cut do the cut from the back of the table saw, pulling
the wood towards me into the blade, something I'd be able to see from the
get go.

I can't envision a specific safety issue doing it that way, but then that's
exactly when those safety issues jump up and bite you in the ass.

Upscale wrote:
I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my
table saw. The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed
the rails and fence because I don't need them for the outdoor
projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since
I can't see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting.
Careful as I am sneaking up on the turned down cut lines,
occasionally, I've cut too much off which is a pain. Anybody got any
tips for cutting these without going to the effort of installing the
rails and fence to use with a start off reference block against the
fence?

Thanks

Step #1 is to mark your board on the leading edge.

Step #2 is to have some way of aligning the edge mark with the blade edge.

In my case, I used a knife to scribe lines from each side of the blade onto
the cast iron table and throat plate, sprayed paint onto same, wiped off
excess paint leaving it in the scribed lines. I still prefer to use my
radial saw for cutting out half laps.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Larry C" wrote in message
I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.

I do understand what you explained. I was negligent in my original
explanation by not explaining that I use a wheelchair and can't easily feed
the wood and lean over it and at the same time watch the leading edge of the
wood feed into the blade. Perhaps the solution is what I suggested to Morris
which is an unconventional solution, but not in the realm of impossible.

Upscale wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
into the sawblade first)...

I *do* put reference marks on the sides and bottom of the wood. Problem is
sitting in the wheelchair, I can't feed the wood and lean over it at the
same time to see where the leading edge is going into the blade. However, it
did occur to me to cut do the cut from the back of the table saw, pulling
the wood towards me into the blade, something I'd be able to see from the
get go.

I forgot that you worked from a wheelchair - sorry.

Sometimes I do this kind of cutting with a sled on my TS. The sled has
only ever been used with one blade, and so the slot in the bottom and
rear fence are "zero clearance". I can envision pulling the sled back
until it tips - then fitting it with stop blocks or clamping the work in
place using the zero-clearance slot as a reference...

I can't envision a specific safety issue doing it that way, but then that's
exactly when those safety issues jump up and bite you in the ass.

I think there's too much room in that picture for the blade to grab the
workpiece and throw it in your face.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table
saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I
am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going
to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?

Thanks


I'd clamp a straight board to the table top, parallel to the miter
slots/blade, to act as a fence. This to control the length of the lap as
would your regular fence. You could use an adjustable square with the head
in a miter slot and the end of the blade against the "fence" to position the
temporary fence.

John

"Upscale" wrote in
:

I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my
table saw. The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed
the rails and fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects
I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
can't see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting.
Careful as I am sneaking up on the turned down cut lines,
occasionally, I've cut too much off which is a pain. Anybody got any
tips for cutting these without going to the effort of installing the
rails and fence to use with a start off reference block against the
fence?

Thanks



I sometimes make one cut at the line (where I want it) and then cut the
rest out. You could even cut the line with a hand saw or router. The
advantage to this is you gain a kerf's width of fudge room.

Another thing I did was mark the outsides of the blade on the little
orange insert my saw has for doing this kind of stuff. That way, I've
got a reference to work with before the saw blade enters the work. It's
not always accurate with a wabble dado, though.

Puckdropper
--
"The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the
reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on
rec.woodworking

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Puckdropper" puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote in message
...
"Upscale" wrote in
:

I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my
table saw. The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed
the rails and fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects
I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
can't see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting.
Careful as I am sneaking up on the turned down cut lines,
occasionally, I've cut too much off which is a pain. Anybody got any
tips for cutting these without going to the effort of installing the
rails and fence to use with a start off reference block against the
fence?

Thanks



I sometimes make one cut at the line (where I want it) and then cut the
rest out. You could even cut the line with a hand saw or router. The
advantage to this is you gain a kerf's width of fudge room.

Another thing I did was mark the outsides of the blade on the little
orange insert my saw has for doing this kind of stuff. That way, I've
got a reference to work with before the saw blade enters the work. It's
not always accurate with a wabble dado, though.

Puckdropper
--
"The potential difference between the top and bottom of a tree is the
reason why all trees have to be grounded..." -- Bored Borg on
rec.woodworking

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

How about if you use the method of making a first cut at your line with a
saw of choice. That way you would have a reference point on the back of the
board. Then take the method of extending a line from the edge of the blade
to the front of the table saw. That way you would have the fudge factor of
a saw blade and a reference point at the back of the stock to line up to the
edge of the blade. Both would at the back of the stock.

Larry C

"Upscale" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table
saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I
can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I
am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going
to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?

Thanks



Attach an adjustable stop to your miter gauge and sneak up on the cut.

On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 06:30:53 -0400, "Upscale"
wrote:

I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?

I would say from your position in the wheelchair most of the usual
ways of getting a stop block reference are going to be a PITA. What
happens is you end up sneaking up on your final stop block position,
and as happened too many times to count just when you've got it almost
perfect and you're dialing in that last adjustment the bugger slides
or the clamp slips off and you have to start all over. And this is
when you can actually see what you're doing, much less trying to do it
from a seated position. This is where having the stop block attached
to a good fence that always locks down perfectly and has a measurement
scale to use as a reference becomes very handy. If you move the fence
too much you still know where it was supposed to be.

But failing that, you could just clamp a block of wood to the table
farther away from the final setting and use shims to get it less than
the final setting. Take out shims until you get where you need to be.
I'm assuming that the half lap is not in the middle of a long board
that extends beyond the table. The other way is to attach an extended
fence to the miter gage, but then you won't be able to see the stop
block so I think clamping to the table will work better.

In the future, if you don't already have one, I would definitely build
yourself a good sled with some hold down clamps so all you have to
worry about is pushing the sled through the cut. While you're at it
make two so you can use one for dado cuts.


-Kevin

"Leon" wrote in message
Attach an adjustable stop to your miter gauge and sneak up on the cut.

As you (and Kevin have noted) an adjustable stop would solve the problem.
All along I've been using the stock mitre that came with the saw over thirty
years ago.

I've made up my mind to buy a decent mitre gauge with a larger fence and
adjustable stops built into it. I was thinking I could use one even before
this problem started. I've seen a number of reviews on them so I'll go
through them and select something suitable.

On Aug 2, 3:30*am, "Upscale" wrote:
I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?

Screw on a scrap length of wood to your mitre gauge, one that goes
beyond the blade. Lift the blade higher than the wood and cut it off.
You now have a reference for your cut lines at the exact position the
blade is. Bring the blade down to the height you want for the half
laps, line up your mark with the wood attached to the mitre gauge &
Bob's your uncle.

HTH

Luigi

"Leon" wrote:

Attach an adjustable stop to your miter gauge and sneak up on the
cut.

That was standard issue on a couple of old T/S I had.

The miter gauge had a couple of holes thuru which you could insert a
3/8" dia. rod (I would use a 36" length), then tighten in place with
thumb screws.

A 2nd rod, about 12" long, had a hook and could be clamped beside the
long rod.

Make a story board as a means of setting the length.

If you screw up the setting, make a new story board.

"Upscale" wrote

As you (and Kevin have noted) an adjustable stop would solve the
problem.
All along I've been using the stock mitre that came with the saw
over thirty
years ago.

I've made up my mind to buy a decent mitre gauge with a larger fence
and
adjustable stops built into it.

A couple of good sleds as has been suggested (T/S blade and dado)
along with a piece of plywood screwed to a standard miter gauge face
is a lot less expensive and IMHO, a whole lot more useful.

Lew

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
Attach an adjustable stop to your miter gauge and sneak up on the cut.

As you (and Kevin have noted) an adjustable stop would solve the problem.
All along I've been using the stock mitre that came with the saw over
thirty
years ago.

I've made up my mind to buy a decent mitre gauge with a larger fence and
adjustable stops built into it. I was thinking I could use one even before
this problem started. I've seen a number of reviews on them so I'll go
through them and select something suitable.


I have been using the "Dubby" for about 10 years and am very happy with it.
Actually I have both the right and left side Dubby. One Dubby will cost you
about the same price as a better grade after market miter gauge.
I also have a Kreg miter gauge with stop that I use mostly for squaring
stock and cutting short pieces to length. The Dubby has a pretty large
capicity but is also easy to use for small pieces.
http://www.in-lineindustries.com/single_dubby.html

"Leon" wrote in message
I have been using the "Dubby" for about 10 years and am very happy with
it.

The "Dubby" type of attachment I'll consider when the time comes to upgrade
from a contractor's saw to a cabinet saw. Along the same lines the Exalibur
and Jessem add-ons are interesting. ~ Stuff for future consideration.

I also have a Kreg miter gauge with stop that I use mostly for squaring

I'm going to go to Lee Valley and have a look at a Kreg and Accu-mitre.
Considering that the Accu-mitre is more than twice the cost of the Kreg,
it's unlikely I'll buy it, but I'll examine both and see how I like them.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Leon" wrote in message
I have been using the "Dubby" for about 10 years and am very happy with
it.

The "Dubby" type of attachment I'll consider when the time comes to
upgrade
from a contractor's saw to a cabinet saw. Along the same lines the
Exalibur
and Jessem add-ons are interesting. ~ Stuff for future consideration.

I also have a Kreg miter gauge with stop that I use mostly for squaring

I'm going to go to Lee Valley and have a look at a Kreg and Accu-mitre.
Considering that the Accu-mitre is more than twice the cost of the Kreg,
it's unlikely I'll buy it, but I'll examine both and see how I like them.


I bought my Kreg just as Kreg had bought the rights to manufacture the
gauge. Just to let you know, I considered 3 brands, Incra, Kreg, and the
Osborne.
The Osborne was the most disappointing as when adjusted to one of the 45
degree settings vs. the opposite setting the fence wobbled. The adjustment
support flexed "VERY" easily. I could see how inconsistent miters would be
common. I tried 3 of these jigs and they all had the problem.
The Incra jigs all IMHO took up too much real-estate behind the fence which
limited the width of the stock being cut.
The Kreg was not with out its problems however Kreg was very helpful in
resolving the problem, as opposed to Osborne. Basically the Kreg uses
indexing pins that either fit too tightly or too loosely. Kreg ended up
sending me a replacement that they pulled off the line and tested before
shipping. Osborne simply denied a problem.

One thing that I do appreciate with the Kreg, it is 99% aluminum so it is
light weight and easy to handle.


Swingman has an Accu-miter and IIRC he is pretty pleased with his.

On 8/2/2009 4:59 AM Upscale spake thus:

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message [...]

Perhaps it would be easier if you put the marks on the /edge/ (that goes
into the sawblade first)...

I *do* put reference marks on the sides and bottom of the wood.
Problem is sitting in the wheelchair, I can't feed the wood and lean
over it at the same time to see where the leading edge is going into
the blade. However, it did occur to me to cut do the cut from the
back of the table saw, pulling the wood towards me into the blade,
something I'd be able to see from the get go.

Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
so you can see in front of the piece being cut?


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
so you can see in front of the piece being cut?

That was suggested by one person who emailed me privately. I'm going to try
(or at least examine) the method of pulling the wood from the back left hand
corner of the table saw into the blade where I can watch it hit the
reference points. If I feel that's too unsafe or I'm not very comfortable
with it, then it shouldn't be too much problem for me to jury rig a mirror
that I can use to see the cut.

Coincidentally, I've been looking for an excuse to buy a better mitre than
the stock one that came with the saw over thirty-five years ago. Ideally, I
feel one *should* be able to line up a cut properly and cut wood without the
need to see it feed. I want to buy a new mitre for the saw and this will be
my reason to do so.

It will be a few days before I get over there to use the table saw. My worry
right now when thinking about it is that it's a contractor type table saw
with the belt and motor hanging off the back, things I really don't want to
be near when the saw is running. I'll see how it goes.

Leon wrote:


One thing that I do appreciate with the Kreg, it is 99% aluminum so it is
light weight and easy to handle.


Swingman has an Accu-miter and IIRC he is pretty pleased with his.

WoodHaven ... best value for the price, IMO. Nothing fancy, just
simple, solid and accurate.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Aug 2, 6:30*am, "Upscale" wrote:
I'm looking for tips on cutting half laps with a dado blade on my table saw.
The saw lives in a friend's garage and I haven't installed the rails and
fence because I don't need them for the outdoor projects I've building.

My problem is sneaking up on the cut lines for these half laps since I can't
see them because they're turned down when doing the cutting. Careful as I am
sneaking up on the turned down cut lines, occasionally, I've cut too much
off which is a pain. Anybody got any tips for cutting these without going to
the effort of installing the rails and fence to use with a start off
reference block against the fence?

Thanks

As mentioned by others, some sort of 1/2 sled that rides in the mitre-
slot. Could be purpose-built for that project if quantities
justify..or make it versatile enough for all your lap-joint needs. I
wish I knew more about what your requirements are... in terms of a
more long-term utility.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
wish I knew more about what your requirements are... in terms of a
more long-term utility.

You can probably guess most of my requirements and as I'm sure you know, the
bottom line with me and woodworking is all centred around control ~ another
hand on the particular tool I'm using since if mine are often occupied, I
can't move around much. That difficulty is a frequent problem in my world
and the problem with the half lap cuts is just one of many similar ones. I'm
going to Lee Valley tomorrow and I'll probably pick up the Kreg mitre jig
after a little hands on examination. It's something I should have done a
long time ago, but I kept putting it off.

The saw is a contractor's type table saw sold to my friend about ten years
ago and it lives in his garage. So, it gets used on a non regular basis as I
refuse to take advantage of his good will. I build something for myself and
then I attempt to talk him into letting me build or help him to build
something for himself. When the time comes that I can rent my own workshop
somewhere, then I'll upgrade to a cabinet saw and maybe a few other pieces
of big iron. Until then, I'll have to be mostly satisfied with what I've got
because I just don't have the space to store it all.

"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Larry C" wrote in message
I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.

I do understand what you explained. I was negligent in my original
explanation by not explaining that I use a wheelchair and can't easily
feed
the wood and lean over it and at the same time watch the leading edge of
the
wood feed into the blade. Perhaps the solution is what I suggested to
Morris
which is an unconventional solution, but not in the realm of impossible.

I think you're much better off just installing the fence and using the
fence. I don't think I'm being a Safety Nazi in suggesting this. The usual
safety-nazi stuff just comes from rote following the "rules" crap. *This*
evokes a response somewhat more akin to "ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME? Just
shove your arm into the blade and be done with it." Not your usual SN
response.

Give some serious thought to using a rabbet bit and featherboard on the
router table. There's so much less setup and so much less to get wrong.

"MikeWhy" wrote in message
...
"Upscale" wrote in message
...

"Larry C" wrote in message
I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.

I do understand what you explained. I was negligent in my original
explanation by not explaining that I use a wheelchair and can't easily
feed
the wood and lean over it and at the same time watch the leading edge of
the
wood feed into the blade. Perhaps the solution is what I suggested to
Morris
which is an unconventional solution, but not in the realm of impossible.

I think you're much better off just installing the fence and using the
fence. I don't think I'm being a Safety Nazi in suggesting this. The usual
safety-nazi stuff just comes from rote following the "rules" crap. *This*
evokes a response somewhat more akin to "ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME? Just
shove your arm into the blade and be done with it." Not your usual SN
response.

Give some serious thought to using a rabbet bit and featherboard on the
router table. There's so much less setup and so much less to get wrong.

Hmmm. Not in regards the RAS. That's perfectly reasonable. Just in general,
the whole dancing around not having a fence ...

Upscale wrote:
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
so you can see in front of the piece being cut?

That was suggested by one person who emailed me privately. I'm going to try
(or at least examine) the method of pulling the wood from the back left hand
corner of the table saw into the blade where I can watch it hit the
reference points. If I feel that's too unsafe or I'm not very comfortable
with it, then it shouldn't be too much problem for me to jury rig a mirror
that I can use to see the cut.
....

The upclimb cut into the blade is too dangerous to even contemplate
standing w/ two hands and body for bracing/control what more w/ the work
essentially at eye level and hands/arms above/level w/ shoulders or
thereabouts. It's just _NOT_ a good idea at all as it has far too much
potential to grab and pull (if you've ever used a RAS you'll have an
idea; that you'd contemplate it probably indicates you haven't, at least
recently).

The mirror would be good, measurement and a stop block clamped to the
table would be good, most suggestions would be good--climb cutting is
not a good suggestion...

--

"dpb" wrote in message
The mirror would be good, measurement and a stop block clamped to the
table would be good, most suggestions would be good--climb cutting is
not a good suggestion...

Yup, the climb cutting did occur to me. If I attempted it, I'd be using the
magnetic featherboard set that I've got.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,42363,42356

So far, I've been hogging out 3/8" of cedar which isn't the most difficult
wood to cut, but I am mindful of your concerns and you've made some valid
points. I will be taking a mirror with me and I'll try that first and then
the suggestion to clamp down a temporary wooden fence. If either lets me
eyeball the cuts easily enough, I won't even consider the backwards cutting.
I've got a total of six more tenons to cut, so there's not a great deal of
work left.

In article , "MikeWhy" wrote:
"Upscale" wrote in message
.. .

"Larry C" wrote in message
I think I did a terrible job of explaining but I hope you get the idea.

I do understand what you explained. I was negligent in my original
explanation by not explaining that I use a wheelchair and can't easily feed
the wood and lean over it and at the same time watch the leading edge of the
wood feed into the blade. Perhaps the solution is what I suggested to Morris
which is an unconventional solution, but not in the realm of impossible.

I think you're much better off just installing the fence and using the
fence. I don't think I'm being a Safety Nazi in suggesting this. The usual
safety-nazi stuff just comes from rote following the "rules" crap. *This*
evokes a response somewhat more akin to "ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME? Just
shove your arm into the blade and be done with it." Not your usual SN
response.

I agree with Mike -- that is NOT even CLOSE to safe. I might not have put it
quite the way he did... but I entirely agree. Climb-cutting like you propose
is just *begging* to get the workpiece, and the miter gauge along with it,
thrown back into your teeth.

Set the fence or a guide of some some sort, or use a sled or a jig. Get your
measurements and setup correct, and it truly won't matter that you can't see
the leading edge of the wood going into the blade. Make a few test cuts on
scrap first, if you need to, to convince yourself. You really don't need to
watch. Honest.

If you feel that you simply *must* line up a pencil mark on the back side of
the blade, do it with the saw turned *off*. Then clamp the workpiece to the
miter gauge, lower the blade below the table, pull the gauge to the front of
the saw, raise the blade, and make the cut normally -- moving the wood away
from you.

You don't say what you use for safety equipment, but if your eye protection
consists only of goggles or safety glasses, please consider using a face
shield instead. I haven't used goggles for at least ten years -- the face
shield is so much more convenient, and protects so much more. Your eyes are
not the only part of your face that need protection; imagine what it would
feel like to take a kickback in the nose or teeth, or the larynx, where a
high-speed impact could be fatal. Operating the saw from a seated position
puts your face and throat that much more in the "line of fire" and makes a
face shield that much more important.

"Doug Miller"
You don't say what you use for safety equipment, but if your eye
protection
consists only of goggles or safety glasses, please consider using a face
shield instead.

I have and use a full face shield every time as well as a heavy denim smock
that covers my upper body completely. There's just too many mini projectile
slivers and sawdust coming off the saw blade for me to consider not using a
face shield. I'm hoping to pick up the Kreg Mitre (or something similar)
from Lee Valley tomorrow and with that I should be able to cut to any line,
sight unseen.

If you feel that you simply *must* line up a pencil mark on the back side
of
the blade, do it with the saw turned *off*.

That's something I didn't consider and might work well. Thanks.

Upscale wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
The mirror would be good, measurement and a stop block clamped to the
table would be good, most suggestions would be good--climb cutting is
not a good suggestion...

Yup, the climb cutting did occur to me. If I attempted it, I'd be using the
magnetic featherboard set that I've got.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,42363,42356

So far, I've been hogging out 3/8" of cedar which isn't the most difficult
wood to cut, but I am mindful of your concerns and you've made some valid
points. I will be taking a mirror with me and I'll try that first and then
the suggestion to clamp down a temporary wooden fence. If either lets me
eyeball the cuts easily enough, I won't even consider the backwards cutting.
I've got a total of six more tenons to cut, so there's not a great deal of
work left.

I'm not envisioning how the featherboards are going to help in this case.

Whatever, be careful _first_....agreed, the cedar and a 3/8" cut isn't
terribly much, but all it takes is once for the results of the blade
grabbing your work piece to get ugly. I'm particularly concerned given
the geometry in which you have to approach the saw of being low. I'm
sure you've got a lot of experience in using it that way and are able;
but this operation spooks me to hear it.

Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
saw that could support the wheelchair for better access? That would
seem to potentially aid if not fully resolve a lot of problems for a
long time in the future...

For the immediate problem--How about taking one that is at the proper
distance now and use it w/ the blade stopped to set the distance for the
stop block clamped to the table?

Alternatively, how about making the pieces a tad long, cut the tenon
approximately (but a little long) then trim the end for the final length?

--

"dpb" wrote in message
Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
saw that could support the wheelchair for better access?

Eventually, I plan on buying a General 650 lowered version tablesaw. They
build a line of five pieces of big iron that have been lowered for
wheelchair, sitting use or someone of lower stature. And the fact that
they're not charging a cent over the cost of the regular version makes them
a class act in my books.

For the immediate problem--How about taking one that is at the proper
distance now and use it w/ the blade stopped to set the distance for the
stop block clamped to the table?

Not a problem anymore. The Kreg mitre I'm going to buy will let me cut
safely.

Alternatively, how about making the pieces a tad long, cut the tenon
approximately (but a little long) then trim the end for the final length?

I'm putting tenons on both ends of single pieces. I can screw up one end and
then adjust for length, but the opposite end would need to be exact to the
line without any initial error.

In article , dpb wrote:

Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
saw that could support the wheelchair for better access? That would
seem to potentially aid if not fully resolve a lot of problems for a
long time in the future...

Or perhaps one of these?
http://www.thestandingcompany.com/

I had no idea they existed until very recently, when I saw someone using one.

On Aug 3, 5:54*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
saw that could support the wheelchair for better access?

Eventually, I plan on buying a General 650 lowered version tablesaw. They
build a line of five pieces of big iron that have been lowered for
wheelchair, sitting use or someone of lower stature. And the fact that
they're not charging a cent over the cost of the regular version makes them
a class act in my books.

For the immediate problem--How about taking one that is at the proper
distance now and use it w/ the blade stopped to set the distance for the
stop block clamped to the table?

Not a problem anymore. The Kreg mitre I'm going to buy will let me cut
safely.

Alternatively, how about making the pieces a tad long, cut the tenon
approximately (but a little long) then trim the end for the final length?

I'm putting tenons on both ends of single pieces. I can screw up one end and
then adjust for length, but the opposite end would need to be exact to the
line without any initial error.

You won't go wrong with General. I am really impressed how they're
handling their Gorilla CNC manufacturing. Great bunch of people.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
Or perhaps one of these?
http://www.thestandingcompany.com/

I had no idea they existed until very recently, when I saw someone using
one.

They start at about $4000 for a basic model and go up from there.

Upscale wrote:
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
Maybe a stupid idea, but is there any chance you could rig up a mirror
so you can see in front of the piece being cut?

That was suggested by one person who emailed me privately. I'm going to try
(or at least examine) the method of pulling the wood from the back left hand
corner of the table saw into the blade where I can watch it hit the
reference points. If I feel that's too unsafe or I'm not very comfortable
with it, then it shouldn't be too much problem for me to jury rig a mirror
that I can use to see the cut.

Coincidentally, I've been looking for an excuse to buy a better mitre than
the stock one that came with the saw over thirty-five years ago. Ideally, I
feel one *should* be able to line up a cut properly and cut wood without the
need to see it feed. I want to buy a new mitre for the saw and this will be
my reason to do so.

It will be a few days before I get over there to use the table saw. My worry
right now when thinking about it is that it's a contractor type table saw
with the belt and motor hanging off the back, things I really don't want to
be near when the saw is running. I'll see how it goes.




Upscale, at one time you pointed out to us that General was making a saw
lower than most, specifically for people in chairs. Did you get one of
those?

If not, is there any safe way that you can elevate yourself and/or chair
to get over the table and blade so that you can see better when you're
lining up?

Tanus

Upscale wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message
wish I knew more about what your requirements are... in terms of a
more long-term utility.

You can probably guess most of my requirements and as I'm sure you know, the
bottom line with me and woodworking is all centred around control ~ another
hand on the particular tool I'm using since if mine are often occupied, I
can't move around much. That difficulty is a frequent problem in my world
and the problem with the half lap cuts is just one of many similar ones. I'm
going to Lee Valley tomorrow and I'll probably pick up the Kreg mitre jig
after a little hands on examination. It's something I should have done a
long time ago, but I kept putting it off.

The saw is a contractor's type table saw sold to my friend about ten years
ago and it lives in his garage. So, it gets used on a non regular basis as I
refuse to take advantage of his good will. I build something for myself and
then I attempt to talk him into letting me build or help him to build
something for himself. When the time comes that I can rent my own workshop
somewhere, then I'll upgrade to a cabinet saw and maybe a few other pieces
of big iron. Until then, I'll have to be mostly satisfied with what I've got
because I just don't have the space to store it all.



I seem to have asked that last question too early. This answers it.

Tanus

Upscale wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
Is there any chance you could eventually get a platform surrounding the
saw that could support the wheelchair for better access?

Eventually, I plan on buying a General 650 lowered version tablesaw. They
build a line of five pieces of big iron that have been lowered for
wheelchair, sitting use or someone of lower stature. And the fact that
they're not charging a cent over the cost of the regular version makes them
a class act in my books.

Well how kewl is that!!!??? I wasn't aware of that but super...

For the immediate problem--How about taking one that is at the proper
distance now and use it w/ the blade stopped to set the distance for the
stop block clamped to the table?

Not a problem anymore. The Kreg mitre I'm going to buy will let me cut
safely.

OK, anything so I don't have to fret any longer--I really didn't like
the other idea if you couldn't tell....

--

In article , "Upscale" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
Or perhaps one of these?
http://www.thestandingcompany.com/

I had no idea they existed until very recently, when I saw someone using
one.

They start at about $4000 for a basic model and go up from there.

Yeeee-owwwwtch!!! And I'll bet that's not covered by health insurance, either,
because they'll tell you "a standard chair is good enough". Right?

On Aug 3, 6:42*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
Or perhaps one of these?
http://www.thestandingcompany.com/

I had no idea they existed until very recently, when I saw someone using

one.

They start at about $4000 for a basic model and go up from there.

Dean Kamen can help out too.

http://www.dekaresearch.com/ibot.shtml

That guy is farking brilliant!!