Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT

dustyone wrote:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Jun 21, 12:21*pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
dustyone wrote:
Does all wood darken with age? *Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. *Do other woods behave in the same way? *One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.

What time frame are you talking about? I suppose if you wait long
enough the wood would turn into oil, so yes, it would turn black. But
there's plenty of wood lying around this place that isn't continuing
to darken. I have some unfinished pine window trim that has been
sitting in the sun for years and it isn't getting noticeably darker.
If anything it's lightening up some after the initial darkening.

R

Morris Dovey wrote:
dustyone wrote:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.

That's called "charcoal", Morris...

I don't see that at all, though, at least w/o moisture. Cedar, most
pines, cypress, etc., will eventually get a gray outer layer and from
then on are essentially stable as long as don't stay wet.

I'm not thinking on same lines as you; obviously you're not thinking
along same lines as I...

--

dustyone wrote:
Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

My experience is that light woods darken and dark woods (walnut, mahogany,
etc.) lighten. Teak too lightens. I used to have a sailboat with an
African mahogany trunk cabin and a teak transom. Both became noticeably
lighter within a few months after sanding and varnishing.

Much also depends on what finish if any. I made my wife's desk of heartwood
hickory with sapwood hickory trim. The heartwood was medium, sapwood quite
light. The desk was finished with linseed oil, all parts became a medium
brown within a few months due to the oxidation of the oil.

Also, freshly cut wood color is different from that exposed to air for a
while; e.g, freshly cut walnut generally has a purplish cast, teak a
greenish one.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:21 pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
dustyone wrote:
Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.
All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.

What time frame are you talking about?

Well, I have unfinished softwood that has browned significantly over the
last ten years or so.

I've paid attention to the effect of time on softwood and hardwood
furniture built in North America in the 1600's - 1800's shown on
"Antiques Roadshow".

And I've seen first hand how wood from 1000 years ago has turned black
as charcoal (without an intermediate oil stage, AFAIK).

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Jun 21, 1:14*pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:21 pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
dustyone wrote:
Does all wood darken with age? *Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. *Do other woods behave in the same way? *One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.
All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.

What time frame are you talking about?

Well, I have unfinished softwood that has browned significantly over the
last ten years or so.

I've paid attention to the effect of time on softwood and hardwood
furniture built in North America in the 1600's - 1800's shown on
"Antiques Roadshow".

And I've seen first hand how wood from 1000 years ago has turned black
as charcoal (without an intermediate oil stage, AFAIK).

Well that clears that up. When you said eventually you were talking
about a time frame measured in the hundreds of years. I'm not sure
that's what the OP was asking about.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 21, 1:14 pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 21, 12:21 pm, Morris Dovey wrote:
dustyone wrote:
Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.
All wood eventually oxidizes to one degree or another - and the woods
I'm familiar with will oxidize until they eventually turn black.
What time frame are you talking about?
Well, I have unfinished softwood that has browned significantly over the
last ten years or so.

I've paid attention to the effect of time on softwood and hardwood
furniture built in North America in the 1600's - 1800's shown on
"Antiques Roadshow".

And I've seen first hand how wood from 1000 years ago has turned black
as charcoal (without an intermediate oil stage, AFAIK).

Well that clears that up. When you said eventually you were talking
about a time frame measured in the hundreds of years. I'm not sure
that's what the OP was asking about.

And a lot of that over that time period is accumulated grime and dirt
not simply the result of surface oxidation...

--

Every species has it's own characteristics. Pine will yellow and brown
if it is indoors and covered with a varnish of some sort but will Grey
and black if outdorrs and exposed to mositiure. Red oak will usually
lighten, agin unless moisture is present than it will black, etc. etc.

On Jun 21, 8:48*am, dustyone wrote:
Hello all,

Question:

Does all wood darken with age? *Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. *Do other woods behave in the same way? *One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT

On Jun 21, 3:59*pm, "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
Every species has it's own characteristics. Pine will yellow and brown
if it is indoors and covered with a varnish of some sort but will Grey
and black if outdorrs and exposed to mositiure. Red oak will usually
lighten, agin unless moisture is present than it will black, etc. etc.

On Jun 21, 8:48*am, dustyone wrote:

Hello all,

Question:

Does all wood darken with age? *Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. *Do other woods behave in the same way? *One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT




Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
"it depends".

CB

dustyone wrote:
On Jun 21, 3:59 pm, "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
Every species has it's own characteristics. Pine will yellow and
brown if it is indoors and covered with a varnish of some sort but
will Grey and black if outdorrs and exposed to mositiure. Red oak
will usually lighten, agin unless moisture is present than it will
black, etc. etc.

On Jun 21, 8:48 am, dustyone wrote:

Hello all,

Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT




Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
"it depends".

It will darken.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:
dustyone wrote:
On Jun 21, 3:59 pm, "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
Every species has it's own characteristics. Pine will yellow and
brown if it is indoors and covered with a varnish of some sort but
will Grey and black if outdorrs and exposed to mositiure. Red oak
will usually lighten, agin unless moisture is present than it will
black, etc. etc.

On Jun 21, 8:48 am, dustyone wrote:

Hello all,
Question:
Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.
Curt Blood
Hartford, CT



Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
"it depends".

It will darken.

And the varnish will yellow...

--

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:04:36 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

dustyone wrote:

Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
"it depends".

It will darken.

Most of the reference books I've read agree. The only question is the
time frame.

I particularly remember a book on turning that emphasized form because no
matter how pretty the wood, it'll all be black eventually. And yes,
eventually was in the 100s of years.

Of course, one could always use paint and bury the stuff in a desert
pyramid :-).





--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news

My experience is that light woods darken and dark woods (walnut, mahogany,
etc.) lighten. Teak too lightens.

Padauk, Cocobolo, and Cherry darken.

"dustyone" wrote in message
...
Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT


NO! some get lighter but most get darker. IIRC Walnut will lighten with
exposure to light as opposet to Maple, Cherry, Padauh, Cocobolo which get
darker.

"dustyone" wrote in message
...





Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
"it depends".



We have a Maple wood floor in our master bathroom . A mat sets on top of it
in one spot near a window. The wood has darkened from direct sunlight.
Under the mat it is a lighter shade.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:48:52 -0700 (PDT), dustyone
wrote:

Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT


Pine, oak, maple, redwood, walnut darken with age. I am surprised how
much my pine furniture has darkened with age. Not sure if ALL wood
darkens with sun exposure, but I'd like to know which one(s) do not.
There have been many times I avoided cherry due to its darkening
characteristics. What is aggravating is putting a vase, cloth, lamp
on a table for some months, then you can see the lighter shadow on the
wood.

In article , Phisherman wrote:

Pine, oak, maple, redwood, walnut darken with age.

English walnut, maybe. Black walnut lightens.

Generally light woods darken dark woods lighten
"dustyone" wrote in message
...
Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT

Rusty wrote:
"dustyone" wrote in message
...
Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT

Generally light woods darken dark woods lighten

In other words, everything becomes dark beige.
;-)

--
Froz...

I turned a bird house out of an oily wood - name escapes me now -
and my beloved put it on a shelf (not for birds) that caught an hour
or so a day. It bleached and dried out and needed oiling to help it.

Might have been Cocobolo - but I can't recall - been 10-12 years ago.
[ wood used for bearings ? ] Hum

Martin

Leon wrote:
"dustyone" wrote in message
...
Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT


NO! some get lighter but most get darker. IIRC Walnut will lighten with
exposure to light as opposet to Maple, Cherry, Padauh, Cocobolo which get
darker.

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote:

[ wood used for bearings ? ] Hum

The standard for wooden journal bearings in marine applications has
been Lignum Vitae.

Lew

On Jun 22, 10:59*am, Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:48:52 -0700 (PDT), dustyone

wrote:
Hello all,

Question:

Does all wood darken with age? *Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. *Do other woods behave in the same way? *One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT

Pine, oak, maple, redwood, walnut darken with age. *I am surprised how
much my pine furniture has darkened with age. *Not sure if ALL wood
darkens with sun exposure, but I'd like to know which one(s) do not.
There have been many times I avoided cherry due to its darkening
characteristics. *What is aggravating is putting a vase, cloth, lamp
on a table for some months, then you can see the lighter shadow on the
wood. *

Many thanks!

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT

Leon wrote:
"dustyone" wrote in message
...
Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT


NO! some get lighter but most get darker. IIRC Walnut will lighten with
exposure to light as opposet to Maple, Cherry, Padauh, Cocobolo which get
darker.



Walnut will lighten? Does that work the same way as cherry darkens? Make
sure it gets sun exposure and leave it there to lighten up.

I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do is
put it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light it gets.

Tanus

Doug Miller wrote:
: In article , Phisherman wrote:

:Pine, oak, maple, redwood, walnut darken with age.

: English walnut, maybe. Black walnut lightens.

So does French walnut. It can get close to a cream color
(after a hundred years anyway).

-- Andy Barss

In article ,
dadiOH wrote:
dustyone wrote:
On Jun 21, 3:59 pm, "SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
Every species has it's own characteristics. Pine will yellow and
brown if it is indoors and covered with a varnish of some sort but
will Grey and black if outdorrs and exposed to mositiure. Red oak
will usually lighten, agin unless moisture is present than it will
black, etc. etc.

On Jun 21, 8:48 am, dustyone wrote:

Hello all,

Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT




Thank you all for your responses. The wood in question is curly maple
finished with rock hard table top varnish. Sounds like the answer is
"it depends".

Nah. The "Law of perverse statistics" applies. Whichever way you _don't_
want it to go is what it will actually do. grin

Tanus wrote:
Leon wrote:
"dustyone" wrote in message
...
Hello all,


Question:

Does all wood darken with age? Cherry, of course, is an example of
such a species. Do other woods behave in the same way? One would
think that most color would fade with exposure to light, and that
cherry is an anomaly.

Curt Blood
Hartford, CT


NO! some get lighter but most get darker. IIRC Walnut will
lighten with exposure to light as opposet to Maple, Cherry, Padauh,
Cocobolo which get darker.



Walnut will lighten? Does that work the same way as cherry darkens?
Make sure it gets sun exposure and leave it there to lighten up.

I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do is
put it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light it
gets.
Tanus

Not very...it gets redder (than fresh cut) with golden overtones.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"Tanus" wrote in message ...

Walnut will lighten? Does that work the same way as cherry darkens? Make
sure it gets sun exposure and leave it there to lighten up.

Yes



I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do is put
it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light it gets.


I don't think it will lighten quite as quickly as the cherry darkens in
light exposure.

On Jun 24, 10:40*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Tanus" wrote in ...

Walnut will lighten? Does that work the same way as cherry darkens? Make
sure it gets sun exposure and leave it there to lighten up.

Yes



I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do is put
it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light it gets.

I don't think it will lighten quite as quickly as the cherry darkens in
light exposure.

Here is a link to a Japanese book (“Wood and Cellulosic Chemistry” by
David N.-S. Hon, Nobuo Shiraishi)
http://tinyurl.com/knpd6f

According to the book, there are many causes of discoloration:
chemical, biological and physical. Results for light-induced
discoloration is shown in Table 7 for 100 species of wood (but Google
shows only part of the table) Positive numbers show woods that
darken and negative numbers show woods that lighten.

According to the Table 7, American walnut should lighten, but window
glass will block UV from sunlight, so it may take much longer than if
left in full sunlight outdoors.

Denis G. wrote:
On Jun 24, 10:40 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"Tanus" wrote in
...

Walnut will lighten? Does that work the same way as cherry darkens?
Make sure it gets sun exposure and leave it there to lighten up.

Yes



I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do
is put it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light
it gets.

I don't think it will lighten quite as quickly as the cherry darkens
in light exposure.

Here is a link to a Japanese book (“Wood and Cellulosic Chemistry” by
David N.-S. Hon, Nobuo Shiraishi)
http://tinyurl.com/knpd6f

According to the book, there are many causes of discoloration:
chemical, biological and physical. Results for light-induced
discoloration is shown in Table 7 for 100 species of wood (but Google
shows only part of the table) Positive numbers show woods that
darken and negative numbers show woods that lighten.

According to the Table 7, American walnut should lighten, but window
glass will block UV from sunlight, so it may take much longer than if
left in full sunlight outdoors.

Whoa, STOP. The UV content of sunlight on the Earth's surface is mostly UVA
(the UVB and higher has mostly been absorbed by the atmosphere) and window
glass unless it has a UV blocking coating on it is about 90 percent
transparent to UVA.

"Denis G." wrote in message
...


Yes



I have a walnut bowl that seems a bit dark and if all I have to do is
put
it by a southern exposed window, I'd like to see how light it gets.

I don't think it will lighten quite as quickly as the cherry darkens in
light exposure.

Here is a link to a Japanese book (“Wood and Cellulosic Chemistry” by
David N.-S. Hon, Nobuo Shiraishi)
http://tinyurl.com/knpd6f

According to the book, there are many causes of discoloration:
chemical, biological and physical. Results for light-induced
discoloration is shown in Table 7 for 100 species of wood (but Google
shows only part of the table) Positive numbers show woods that
darken and negative numbers show woods that lighten.

According to the Table 7, American walnut should lighten, but window
glass will block UV from sunlight, so it may take much longer than if
left in full sunlight outdoors.


That sounds very reasonable. Because I have never built any Walnut
furniture that was to be left out side in direct sunlight I have not
witnessed it fade "quickly". Cherry on OTOH will darken quickly. You
better be cautious about setting any thing on a new piece of Cherry
furniture that will block light as in as little as several weeks the wood
will darken around the protected/covered spot.

Leon wrote:

That sounds very reasonable. Because I have never built any Walnut
furniture that was to be left out side in direct sunlight I have not
witnessed it fade "quickly". Cherry on OTOH will darken quickly. You
better be cautious about setting any thing on a new piece of Cherry
furniture that will block light as in as little as several weeks the wood
will darken around the protected/covered spot.

Yep ... and, as you know, every time you walk in my house you can see
that the nice initial effect of inlaying walnut with cherry may not
stand the test of time.

The walnut lightens and the cherry darkens, making the inlay almost
disappear.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote

Yep ... and, as you know, every time you walk in my house you can see that
the nice initial effect of inlaying walnut with cherry may not stand the
test of time.

The walnut lightens and the cherry darkens, making the inlay almost
disappear.

Next time, reverse the woods. Inlay cherry into the walnut. That should do
the trick! Hindsight is 20/20. :-)

Lee Michaels wrote:

Hindsight is 20/20. :-)

You're right .. might as well be blind for the impact the effect has.


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

That sounds very reasonable. Because I have never built any Walnut
furniture that was to be left out side in direct sunlight I have not
witnessed it fade "quickly". Cherry on OTOH will darken quickly. You
better be cautious about setting any thing on a new piece of Cherry
furniture that will block light as in as little as several weeks the wood
will darken around the protected/covered spot.

Yep ... and, as you know, every time you walk in my house you can see that
the nice initial effect of inlaying walnut with cherry may not stand the
test of time.

The walnut lightens and the cherry darkens, making the inlay almost
disappear.



Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn darker
and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same result,
except just the opposite. ;~(

On 6/25/2009 7:56 AM Leon spake thus:

Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn darker
and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same result,
except just the opposite. ;~(

Just a question: why do you always capitalize Cherry and Walnut? They're
not proper nouns, you know, and this ain't German.

Just curious.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/25/2009 7:56 AM Leon spake thus:

Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn
darker and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same
result, except just the opposite. ;~(

Just a question: why do you always capitalize Cherry and Walnut? They're
not proper nouns, you know, and this ain't German.

Just curious.

Around here proper respect is paid to JOAT'S wooddorking gods, which
lurk in the two most elegant of hardwoods, way before any thought is
given to frivolous pursuits like grammar ... besides, it insures
wooddorkers cut only once after measuring only once.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 6/27/2009 10:37 AM Swingman spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 6/25/2009 7:56 AM Leon spake thus:

Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn
darker and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same
result, except just the opposite. ;~(

Just a question: why do you always capitalize Cherry and Walnut? They're
not proper nouns, you know, and this ain't German.

Just curious.

Around here proper respect is paid to JOAT'S wooddorking gods, which
lurk in the two most elegant of hardwoods, way before any thought is
given to frivolous pursuits like grammar ... besides, it insures
wooddorkers cut only once after measuring only once.

Hmm; dunno what JOAT is, but I'll find out soon enough.

And that's sure better than my usual "Damn--I cut it twice and it's
*still* too short!"


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
On 6/25/2009 7:56 AM Leon spake thus:

Stick it out side! IT IS NOT GOING TO RAIN. The Cherry will turn darker
and the Walnut will lighten, then you will end up with the same result,
except just the opposite. ;~(

Just a question: why do you always capitalize Cherry and Walnut? They're
not proper nouns, you know, and this ain't German.

Just curious.


You don't name your boards??

I want to emphasize the particular wood.

Leon wrote:

You don't name your boards??

ROTFL! ...

I want to emphasize the particular wood.

LOL ... that'll do it, for sure!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)