Here is an inquiry I received this morning:

*** START ***

I am trying to find some sources to help us build a wood boring machine that
can drill from 4" up to 10" (rarely larger), mostly our needs call for the
4" ~ 8" diameter range boring up the center of the log lengthwise. Length
of the pole is typically 8' to 12' long. We are trying to find a source for
the machine and drill bits. B&A Manufacturing referred us to you for the
equipment part of our needs. Tree diameter generally calls for needing at
least 4" larger than the diameter of the hole, but usually 6" is better (3"
width of tree leftover all away around the diameter of the hole and the
larger the tree, the larger width of wood needs to remain). So if can
imagine, we may have a 16" diameter tree, 10' long, that calls for a 8"
diameter

This is one of the hardest, most dense woods of the world.

Is there a stock machine out there that can do what we are asking, and if so
is that something you can offer? Do you know where we might find one and at
what kind of cost?

Someone had one built that drills it while still leaving the "donut hole"
for lack of a better term still intact so that when it is finally drilled
all the way through, we are left with a wood cylinder in the diameter of the
bit used. Do, if our job calls for a 4" hole, we end up with a wood
cylinder slightly less than 4" in diameter. That is then pulled out of the
inside of the log. We found this to give us the most success in boring out
this wood.

Please let me know what you can come up with.

*** END ***

Anyone have any leads for this guy? I can't / won't build a machine of this
caliber but would love to point him in the right direction.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

snip

Anyone have any leads for this guy? I can't / won't build a machine of this
caliber but would love to point him in the right direction.

Joe...

I don't know if it's helpful to you or not, but a 2.5X version (in
metal, rather than the baltic birch shown) of the machine at the link
below could do that job nicely...

I know how - I built the machine shown. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/Projects/JBot/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

snip

Anyone have any leads for this guy? I can't / won't build a machine of
this caliber but would love to point him in the right direction.

Joe...

I don't know if it's helpful to you or not, but a 2.5X version (in metal,
rather than the baltic birch shown) of the machine at the link below could
do that job nicely...

I know how - I built the machine shown. :-)

Morris,

Which link? Your sig link brings me to the JBot... Didn't see another
link...

Also, sent a buddy your way for some solar panel stuff... Dan from
Scranton, PA. Great guy.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Aug 5, 9:39*am, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
Here is an inquiry I received this morning:

*** START ***

I am trying to find some sources to help us build a wood boring machine that
can drill from 4" up to 10" (rarely larger), mostly our needs call for the
*4" ~ 8" diameter range boring up the center of the log lengthwise. *Length
of the pole is typically 8' to 12' long. *We are trying to find a source for
the machine and drill bits. *B&A Manufacturing referred us to you for the
equipment part of our needs. * *Tree diameter generally calls for needing at
least 4" larger than the diameter of the hole, but usually 6" is better (3"
width of tree leftover all away around the diameter of the hole and the
larger the tree, the larger width of wood needs to remain). *So if can
imagine, we may have a 16" diameter tree, 10' long, that calls for a 8"
diameter

This is one of the hardest, most dense woods of the world.

Is there a stock machine out there that can do what we are asking, and if so
is that something you can offer? *Do you know where we might find one and at
what kind of cost?

Someone had one built that drills it while still leaving the "donut hole"
for lack of a better term still intact so that when it is finally drilled
all the way through, we are left with a wood cylinder in the diameter of the
bit used. *Do, if our job calls for a 4" hole, we end up with a wood
cylinder slightly less than 4" in diameter. *That is then pulled out of the
inside of the log. *We found this to give us the most success in boring out
this wood.

Please let me know what you can come up with.

*** END ***

Anyone have any leads for this guy? *I can't / won't build a machine of this
caliber but would love to point him in the right direction.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

Joe, have him look at Vermeer's moles. He won't need anything that
serious, but the parts and drives are there. Horizontal boring is one
of their specialties. They bored a hole from the church parking lot on
my street, past my house and down the street a total of 1300 feet,
going through
deep roots, rocks, all kinds of stuff and ended up exactly where they
wanted. I can't imagine they wouldn't be able to help him.

r

Morris Dovey wrote:
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

snip

Anyone have any leads for this guy? I can't / won't build a
machine
of this caliber but would love to point him in the right direction.

Joe...

I don't know if it's helpful to you or not, but a 2.5X version (in
metal, rather than the baltic birch shown) of the machine at the
link
below could do that job nicely...

I know how - I built the machine shown. :-)

Looks like a neat machine but I don't see how you'd gun-drill a 12
foot log with it.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Which link? Your sig link brings me to the JBot... Didn't see another
link...

My goof - I missed that you wanted to bore 16 FOOT lengths to make pipe.
Sorry about that.

I assume he's wanting to drill something like ipé. It's an interesting
tooling challenge. :-)

Also, sent a buddy your way for some solar panel stuff... Dan from
Scranton, PA. Great guy.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for e-mail - and, of course, treat him well.
Thanks!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

You don't - I shoulda read the reqs /three/ times before opening mouth. I
was over-eager.

Welcome to my world.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

J. Clarke wrote:

Looks like a neat machine but I don't see how you'd gun-drill a 12
foot log with it.

You don't - I shoulda read the reqs /three/ times before opening mouth.
I was over-eager.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
Here is an inquiry I received this morning:

*** START ***

I am trying to find some sources to help us build a wood boring
machine that can drill from 4" up to 10" (rarely larger), mostly our
needs call for the 4" ~ 8" diameter range boring up the center of
the log lengthwise. Length of the pole is typically 8' to 12' long.
We are trying to find a source for the machine and drill bits. B&A
Manufacturing referred us to you for the equipment part of our
needs.
Tree diameter generally calls for needing at least 4" larger than
the
diameter of the hole, but usually 6" is better (3" width of tree
leftover all away around the diameter of the hole and the larger the
tree, the larger width of wood needs to remain). So if can imagine,
we may have a 16" diameter tree, 10' long, that calls for a 8"
diameter

This is one of the hardest, most dense woods of the world.

Is there a stock machine out there that can do what we are asking,
and if so is that something you can offer? Do you know where we
might find one and at what kind of cost?

Someone had one built that drills it while still leaving the "donut
hole" for lack of a better term still intact so that when it is
finally drilled all the way through, we are left with a wood
cylinder
in the diameter of the bit used. Do, if our job calls for a 4"
hole,
we end up with a wood cylinder slightly less than 4" in diameter.
That is then pulled out of the inside of the log. We found this to
give us the most success in boring out this wood.

Please let me know what you can come up with.

*** END ***

Anyone have any leads for this guy? I can't / won't build a machine
of this caliber but would love to point him in the right direction.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

Sounds like a job for Technidrill http://www.technidrillsystems.com/
or one of their competitors.

Google "gun drill" and you should be able to come up with more hits.
A call to the appropriate division of BAE Systems might also yield the
name of their tooling supplier (or might not depending on how close to
the vest they like to keep their manufacturing).

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Welcome to my world.

I admit, it's one of my weaknesses.

I couldn't leave the CNC idea alone, though - I wonder if it'd be
possible to support the log on a pair of cradles in front of a Y-Z
gantry carrying something like a CO2 laser, and just burn the hole
leaving a (nearly) hole-sized core to pull out.

It'd only be necessary to maintain the beam for half the length of the
log, and parameterizing the part program would allow any diameter hole
larger than the laser beam...

....or even polygonal holes.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Welcome to my world.

I admit, it's one of my weaknesses.

I couldn't leave the CNC idea alone, though - I wonder if it'd be possible
to support the log on a pair of cradles in front of a Y-Z gantry carrying
something like a CO2 laser, and just burn the hole leaving a (nearly)
hole-sized core to pull out.

It'd only be necessary to maintain the beam for half the length of the
log, and parameterizing the part program would allow any diameter hole
larger than the laser beam...

...or even polygonal holes.

Anyone ever tell you that you are way too creative for your own good?
GRIN

Might work really well, but dangerous as can be in an environment where
safety talks generally go "Don't get crushed, spun, run over, etc." The
smoke could be an issue too...


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Welcome to my world.

I admit, it's one of my weaknesses.

I couldn't leave the CNC idea alone, though - I wonder if it'd be
possible to support the log on a pair of cradles in front of a Y-Z gantry
carrying something like a CO2 laser, and just burn the hole leaving a
(nearly) hole-sized core to pull out.

It'd only be necessary to maintain the beam for half the length of the
log, and parameterizing the part program would allow any diameter hole
larger than the laser beam...

...or even polygonal holes.

Anyone ever tell you that you are way too creative for your own good?
GRIN

Might work really well, but dangerous as can be in an environment where
safety talks generally go "Don't get crushed, spun, run over, etc." The
smoke could be an issue too...


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

think steam explosions 8' down inside a 16" diameter log.

think steam explosions 8' down inside a 16" diameter log.

Oh what I wouldn't have done as a teen to know this stuff....
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

Anyone ever tell you that you are way too creative for your own good?
GRIN

It's because I'm so lazy and such a cheapskate. I's a fatal combination.

If the approach could be made to work (depends heavily on collimation of
the laser beam), it'd only be necessary to drop the log on the cradles
with a fork lift, locate the height of the center of the log, specify
the diameter, and stand back. There'd be a minimum of mechanical stuff
to maintain, and no expensive bits to sharpen or replace (or stock in
different sizes). I'm guessing that power consumption would at least not
be worse than a traditional boring machine.

Might work really well, but dangerous as can be in an environment where
safety talks generally go "Don't get crushed, spun, run over, etc." The
smoke could be an issue too...

Probably, smoke should be considered a solved problem - and shouldn't be
more complex than ventilating a spray booth. Setting up guards,
interlocks, and shields for safety should be straightforward.

I don't know what kind of beam collimation is current state of the art,
but I'd guess that seven or eight feet should be workable.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

charlie wrote:

think steam explosions 8' down inside a 16" diameter log.

Good thinking - just as with routing and milling, depth of cut per pass,
adequate airflow, and a suitable feed speed are important factors for
controlling heat build-up. In the case of laser cutters, I think
additional control can be exercised by controlling pulse frequency
and/or duration.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
....
I couldn't leave the CNC idea alone, though - I wonder if it'd be possible
to support the log on a pair of cradles in front of a Y-Z gantry carrying
something like a CO2 laser, and just burn the hole leaving a (nearly)
hole-sized core to pull out.
....
Anyone ever tell you that you are way too creative for your own good?
GRIN

Might work really well, but dangerous as can be in an environment where
safety talks generally go "Don't get crushed, spun, run over, etc." The
smoke could be an issue too...
....

I didn't see this until Morris had already made the suggestion, but that
was my first reaction as well.

As for the safety issues, those could be pretty easily taken care of w/
appropriate fixtures I would think. If they're doing this extensively,
a little extra for the fixture shouldn't be any drawback.

At former employer in a previous life we begin using laser
penetration/welding in pressurizing nuclear fuel rods w/ inert gas
during the manufacturing process "way back" in the late-70s. Laser
focussed to make a pinhole in fuel rod end cap, evacuated and then
filled w/ argon; laser defocussed and welded shut the hole. Same thing;
a fixture and interlocks prevented any way of getting the laser
activated w/o the required shielding in place.

I would thing there could be a heat removal issue in such a thick
enclosed piece, but where there's a will there's a way.

The description of a current tool that reaches (apparently) the full
length and leaves the core is leaving me w/ the desire to see that
puppy...

--

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

Here is an inquiry I received this morning:

*** START ***

I am trying to find some sources to help us build a wood boring
machine that can drill from 4" up to 10" (rarely larger), mostly our
needs call for the 4" ~ 8" diameter range boring up the center of
the log lengthwise. Length of the pole is typically 8' to 12' long.
We are trying to find a source for the machine and drill bits.

National carbon used a "gun lathe" to machine 6" dia thru holes in 20
ft long graphite logs for the nuclear industry.

They found both the lathe and a milling machine at an old armory
auction as I remember it. (This was 1960 era).

Lew

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 12:03:24 -0400, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

think steam explosions 8' down inside a 16" diameter log.

Oh what I wouldn't have done as a teen to know this stuff....

Well, you didn't, Joe.. and that's probably one of many reasons that you're
still alive..lol


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

think steam explosions 8' down inside a 16" diameter log.

Oh what I wouldn't have done as a teen to know this stuff....

Well, you didn't, Joe.. and that's probably one of many reasons that
you're
still alive..lol

Ya know....

I have a video of a cannon we made as kids that shot pool balls (billards)
straight up. They would land about 2.5 minutes later... (anyone able to
calculate FPS, total height by that?) I also have knowledge that you can
shoot a bilalrs ball straight through the chain link fence that is behind
home plate on a baseball diamond if you want to... And the ball will not
even have much damage other than scortch marks and a slight scratch...

#1. Don't ask how we know it was 2.5 minutes later as the statue of
limitations may not protect me yet...

#2. I have a video of the same cannon with a double load (only time we ever
put twice the propellant in) falling over, pointing at us at face level from
the top of the "firing hill" and not going off for the first and only time
in over 100 shots...

I shouldn't be alive... And have proof of it.

That was what we did for fun. The stuff I got caught doing and the stuff we
did to cause trouble was worse.

No wonder I work with troubled teens and find it exciting when I'm not here.
G

....And no, I don't do that stuff any more. I only talk about it and only in
ways that makes it really really hard for the uneducated to learn how to
copy cat my actions.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Aug 5, 2:32*pm, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
think steam explosions 8' down inside a 16" diameter log.

Oh what I wouldn't have done as a teen to know this stuff....

Well, you didn't, Joe.. and that's probably one of many reasons that
you're
still alive..lol

Ya know....

I have a video of a cannon we made as kids that shot pool balls (billards)
straight up. *They would land about 2.5 minutes later... *(anyone able to
calculate FPS, total height by that?) *I also have knowledge that you can
shoot a bilalrs ball straight through the chain link fence that is behind
home plate on a baseball diamond if you want to... *And the ball will not
even have much damage other than scortch marks and a slight scratch...

#1. Don't ask how we know it was 2.5 minutes later as the statue of
limitations may not protect me yet...

#2. I have a video of the same cannon with a double load (only time we ever
put twice the propellant in) falling over, pointing at us at face level from
the top of the "firing hill" and not going off for the first and only time
in over 100 shots...

I shouldn't be alive... *And have proof of it.

That was what we did for fun. *The stuff I got caught doing and the stuff we
did to cause trouble was worse.

No wonder I work with troubled teens and find it exciting when I'm not here.
G

...And no, I don't do that stuff any more. *I only talk about it and only in
ways that makes it really really hard for the uneducated to learn how to
copy cat my actions.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

Don't be so difficult:
http://www.hammerheadmole.com/produc...l_supplies.htm

Don't be so difficult:
http://www.hammerheadmole.com/produc...l_supplies.htm

Sent that to them, but from what I can tell, they may not do wood... Stone
and misc. debris buried underneath your ground surface, yes... Maybe even
roots... But maybe not solid wood...

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In article , "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

I have a video of a cannon we made as kids that shot pool balls (billards)
straight up. They would land about 2.5 minutes later... (anyone able to
calculate FPS, total height by that?)

Yes.

Following disregards effects of air resistance, and thus isn't entirely
accurate, but note that air resistance on a smooth, dense object is not very
large. Velocity at return is obviously the velocity attained by a body falling
from the maximum height attained -- and is also approximately equal to launch
velocity.

Whe
s = vertical distance fallen
g = Earth's gravitational constant = approx 32 ft / sec^2
t = flight time in seconds
v = velocity

s = g * t^2 / 2
v = g * t

t(round trip) = 2.5 minutes = 150 seconds
t(one way) = 75 sec

s = 32 * 75^2 / 2 = 90,000 feet.
v = 32 * 75 = 2400 fps = Mach 2.2

Methinks you overestimate the flight time slightly. :-)

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote

I have a video of a cannon we made as kids that shot pool balls (billards)
straight up. They would land about 2.5 minutes later... (anyone able to
calculate FPS, total height by that?)

Although it may have gone up quicker than down, and just guesstimating the
terminal velocity at roughly 120 mph, or two miles/minute, about a minute of
freefall oughta put you up somewhere around the 10,000' mark.

But at half that, not bad for a trainee canoncocker.

Anyway, now that that ice is broken, we can stand back and wait for the
geniuses/smartasses to chime in, so maybe you'll finally know with some
precision.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I have a video of a cannon we made as kids that shot pool balls (billards)
straight up. They would land about 2.5 minutes later... (anyone able to
calculate FPS, total height by that?)

Yes.

Following disregards effects of air resistance, and thus isn't entirely
accurate, but note that air resistance on a smooth, dense object is not
very
large. Velocity at return is obviously the velocity attained by a body
falling
from the maximum height attained -- and is also approximately equal to
launch
velocity.

Whe
s = vertical distance fallen
g = Earth's gravitational constant = approx 32 ft / sec^2
t = flight time in seconds
v = velocity

s = g * t^2 / 2
v = g * t

t(round trip) = 2.5 minutes = 150 seconds
t(one way) = 75 sec

s = 32 * 75^2 / 2 = 90,000 feet.
v = 32 * 75 = 2400 fps = Mach 2.2

Methinks you overestimate the flight time slightly. :-)

By your calculations, it looks impossible even to me... I'll admit that.

However, I can tell you it took 2 minutes 38 seconds for the ball to drop
back down - as timed with a human watching a digital watch. Unless someone
held it up there or there were currents affecting it like a really large,
smooth piece of hail.... My numbers are pretty accurate however
unbelievable.

Even if it were one minute off... That would still be 32,400 feet up.
Hmm.... 981 MPH... Better than 1600... But I'm certain it was 2:38....

It did land about 1/4 mile away from where it was shot... But I can't
imagine I had that good of aim if it went 90,000 feet up! 90,000 feet is a
17 mile shot, both ways, landing within 1/4 mile of origin... Seems
impossible...

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Aug 5, 3:17*pm, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
Don't be so difficult:http://www.hammerheadmole.com/produc...l_supplies.htm

Sent that to them, but from what I can tell, they may not do wood... *Stone
and misc. debris buried underneath your ground surface, yes... *Maybe even
roots... *But maybe not solid wood...

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

*deep sigh*
No, Joe... not Vermweer as a source, but as a source of inspiration.
Look at what they do. Now do it so it suits YOUR needs.

I'm willing to bet a couple of K, that I can do that job without
breaking the bank. It is NOT a 'moonshot-grade' challenge.

In article , "Swingman" wrote:
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote

I have a video of a cannon we made as kids that shot pool balls (billards)
straight up. They would land about 2.5 minutes later... (anyone able to
calculate FPS, total height by that?)

Although it may have gone up quicker than down, and just guesstimating the
terminal velocity at roughly 120 mph, or two miles/minute, about a minute of
freefall oughta put you up somewhere around the 10,000' mark.

Terminal velocity for a billiard ball oughta be a *lot* higher than that --
120 mph is (approx) TV for a clothed human, and a billiard ball is denser and
smoother by a long stretch.

Terminal velocity for a billiard ball oughta be a *lot* higher than
that --
120 mph is (approx) TV for a clothed human, and a billiard ball is denser
and
smoother by a long stretch.

Agreed... Useless info but... a 400 lb. Rubber band ball dropped from an
airplane reached over 500 MPH and the free-fall skydivers could not keep up
with it. I'm guessing that a much more dense item like the bilalrs ball
with a smooth surface would best that number by quite a bit... Which makes
*my* story look even more like I made it up.

Got me scratching my head here wondering how we did it...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Got me scratching my head here wondering how we did it...

Hmm - ever consider that the guy you almost hit returned fire with your
own billiard ball? :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
Terminal velocity for a billiard ball oughta be a *lot* higher than
that --
120 mph is (approx) TV for a clothed human, and a billiard ball is
denser
and
smoother by a long stretch.

Agreed... Useless info but... a 400 lb. Rubber band ball dropped from an
airplane reached over 500 MPH and the free-fall skydivers could not keep
up
with it. I'm guessing that a much more dense item like the bilalrs ball
with a smooth surface would best that number by quite a bit... Which
makes
*my* story look even more like I made it up.

Got me scratching my head here wondering how we did it...

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html

Plug in the numbers, and you'll get the answer.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Morris Dovey wrote:
Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Got me scratching my head here wondering how we did it...

Hmm - ever consider that the guy you almost hit returned fire with your
own billard ball? :-)

Gives new life to the old saying:

"Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules."

What are the odds I'd ever use that? :-D

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Doug Miller" wrote in message

In article ,
"Swingman" wrote:
"Joe AutoDrill" wrote

I have a video of a cannon we made as kids that shot pool balls
(billards) straight up. They would land about 2.5 minutes later...
(anyone able to calculate FPS, total height by that?)

Although it may have gone up quicker than down, and just
guesstimating the terminal velocity at roughly 120 mph, or two
miles/minute, about a minute of freefall oughta put you up somewhere
around the 10,000' mark.

Terminal velocity for a billiard ball oughta be a *lot* higher than
that -- 120 mph is (approx) TV for a clothed human, and a billiard
ball is denser and
smoother by a long stretch.

Terminal velocity for a billiard ball should be about 43.5 m/s,
or 97.4 mph. The drag coefficient for a smooth sphere is C = 0.5.

Some info on terminal velocity with examples:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/airfri2.html

A page with a calculation app. that you can see the results
of a vertical shot for a spherical object like a billiard
ball:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...uadrag.html#c1

The radius of a standard billiard ball is about 2.857 cm,
density about 1637 kg/m^3 (1.637 gm/cm^2). Mass about
160 grams.

(Doug Miller) wrote in
:

In article , "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:

I have a video of a cannon we made as kids that shot pool balls
(billards) straight up. They would land about 2.5 minutes later...
(anyone able to calculate FPS, total height by that?)

Yes.

Following disregards effects of air resistance, and thus isn't
entirely accurate, but note that air resistance on a smooth, dense
object is not very large. Velocity at return is obviously the velocity
attained by a body falling from the maximum height attained -- and is
also approximately equal to launch velocity.

Whe
s = vertical distance fallen
g = Earth's gravitational constant = approx 32 ft / sec^2
t = flight time in seconds
v = velocity

s = g * t^2 / 2
v = g * t

t(round trip) = 2.5 minutes = 150 seconds
t(one way) = 75 sec

s = 32 * 75^2 / 2 = 90,000 feet.
v = 32 * 75 = 2400 fps = Mach 2.2

Methinks you overestimate the flight time slightly. :-)


Ah, no. The object will start up at muzzle velocity and slow due to gravity
and air resistance - Yes. It will then fall at a constant speed after it
reaches zenith and acclerates down until air resistance equals force of
gravity, ie terminal velocity, which is NOT the same as the muzzle
velocity.

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Here is an inquiry I received this morning:

*** START ***
... snip

Someone had one built that drills it while still leaving the "donut hole"
for lack of a better term still intact so that when it is finally drilled
all the way through, we are left with a wood cylinder in the diameter of
the
bit used. Do, if our job calls for a 4" hole, we end up with a wood
cylinder slightly less than 4" in diameter. That is then pulled out of
the
inside of the log. We found this to give us the most success in boring
out this wood.

Please let me know what you can come up with.

*** END ***

Anyone have any leads for this guy? I can't / won't build a machine of
this caliber but would love to point him in the right direction.

No leads,but it seems like having the cylinder left behind would be a
benefit -- the remaining cylinder could either be drilled to a smaller
diameter, or used in some other way. Seems like a drill that operated in
the typical manner would generate a lot of waste needlessly.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules."

What are the odds I'd ever use that? :-D

About the same as me knowing what it means withoit a Google search.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Aug 5, 9:39*am, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
Here is an inquiry I received this morning:

*** START ***

I am trying to find some sources to help us build a wood boring machine that
can drill from 4" up to 10" (rarely larger), mostly our needs call for the
*4" ~ 8" diameter range boring up the center of the log lengthwise. *Length
of the pole is typically 8' to 12' long. *We are trying to find a source for
the machine and drill bits. *B&A Manufacturing referred us to you for the
equipment part of our needs. * *Tree diameter generally calls for needing at
least 4" larger than the diameter of the hole, but usually 6" is better (3"
width of tree leftover all away around the diameter of the hole and the
larger the tree, the larger width of wood needs to remain). *So if can
imagine, we may have a 16" diameter tree, 10' long, that calls for a 8"
diameter

This is one of the hardest, most dense woods of the world.

Is there a stock machine out there that can do what we are asking, and if so
is that something you can offer? *Do you know where we might find one and at
what kind of cost?

Someone had one built that drills it while still leaving the "donut hole"
for lack of a better term still intact so that when it is finally drilled
all the way through, we are left with a wood cylinder in the diameter of the
bit used. *Do, if our job calls for a 4" hole, we end up with a wood
cylinder slightly less than 4" in diameter. *That is then pulled out of the
inside of the log. *We found this to give us the most success in boring out
this wood.

Please let me know what you can come up with.

*** END ***

Anyone have any leads for this guy? *I can't / won't build a machine of this
caliber but would love to point him in the right direction.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

Depends on how many they need to do, how much they are willing to
spend and how hard they are willing to work, doesn't it?

Two hundred years ago, this was done by hand. Logs were bored out and
used underground in municipal water systems. I recall reading a few
years ago that there were some still in use, but that may not be so.
If you look for "pump auger" or "pipe log auger" you may find some of
the antiques that were used. According to Mercer, it took two men
about a day to bore 16 foot white oak logs in 1926.

Could you drive it by power instead? Certainly - perhaps a post hole
auger or a pipe threader. Check rec.crafts.metalworking and you'll
see that oldjag just successfully used a pipe machine to bore through
20 feet of earth with a 2 inch pipe.

For a machine made for doing exactly this kind of work, albeit in
metal, look for a horizontal boring mill. Lots of them available at
auction, and an old clapped-out machine would still be much more
accurate and powerful than they would need. They could probably find
one for little more than scrap price, although you're probably looking
at 10 tons at the least.

Coring the log sounds nice, but I wouldn't insist on it. Coring
doesn't leave much room for chips, and there will be a lot of them.
Also, the core will contain the pith of the log, so it won't be much
use as is. The guys doing it by hand bored a small (2 inch ?) hole
which they then enlarged with reamers, which seems like a good method.

John Martin

Depends on how many they need to do, how much they are willing to
spend and how hard they are willing to work, doesn't it?

LOL. Yes.

CLIP

Could you drive it by power instead? Certainly - perhaps a post hole
auger or a pipe threader. Check rec.crafts.metalworking and you'll
see that oldjag just successfully used a pipe machine to bore through
20 feet of earth with a 2 inch pipe.

I was following that one closely. However, it looks like his hole was 2"
diameter and he used one heck of a contraption based on a magentic base
drill...

For a machine made for doing exactly this kind of work, albeit in
metal, look for a horizontal boring mill. Lots of them available at
auction, and an old clapped-out machine would still be much more
accurate and powerful than they would need. They could probably find
one for little more than scrap price, although you're probably looking
at 10 tons at the least.

Good point...

Coring the log sounds nice, but I wouldn't insist on it. Coring
doesn't leave much room for chips, and there will be a lot of them.
Also, the core will contain the pith of the log, so it won't be much
use as is. The guys doing it by hand bored a small (2 inch ?) hole
which they then enlarged with reamers, which seems like a good method.

Would love to see a time lapse film of that... If only they had good film
back then. Must have been an interesting job and LOTS of work to pipe a
street, etc.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:39:24 -0400, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:

Here is an inquiry I received this morning:


snip

I don't know what the application is but wouldn't it be easier to rip
it on a bandsaw mill, core box bit the insides and glue it back
together?




Regards, Tom.

Thos. J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet

I don't know what the application is but wouldn't it be easier to rip
it on a bandsaw mill, core box bit the insides and glue it back
together?

That is what we said... But I guess they need it in one piece for some
reason. All I could picture was high end sail masts for sailboats with an
aluminum mast hidden inside... And customers who were too picky to accept a
"split down the middle" wood look...

....But God only knows what they will actually be using the wood "tubes" for
after they are done...
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com

V8013-R



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

All I could picture was high end sail masts for sailboats with an
aluminum mast hidden inside...

These days, high end sailboat masts are strictly carbon fiber.

If you have to ask, you can't afford.

Lew

"Joe AutoDrill" writes:
I don't know what the application is but wouldn't it be easier to rip
it on a bandsaw mill, core box bit the insides and glue it back
together?

That is what we said... But I guess they need it in one piece for some
reason. All I could picture was high end sail masts for sailboats with an
aluminum mast hidden inside... And customers who were too picky to accept a
"split down the middle" wood look...

...But God only knows what they will actually be using the wood "tubes" for
after they are done...

Maybe as cannons on mythbusters?

scott