Well, the folks we love to hate have done it again.

The LOML and I went to Home Depot, and I got my errands done before
she did, so I went to drool over the stationary power tools while I
waited. Couldn't do it. No display. Pation Furniture was there
instead.

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

I suggested that I never bought things like that from pictures, and he
agreed, but said no one at the decision level wanted to hear concerns
from the front lines. I look to see big iron tools dropped from their
stores pretty soon, cause they don't sell any without working display
models. Watch for the closeouts, might be able to score a gloat or
two.

Old Guy

On Apr 30, 8:56*pm, Old Guy wrote:
Well, the folks we love to hate have done it again.

The LOML and I went to *Home Depot, and I got my errands done before
she did, so I went to drool over the stationary power tools while I
waited. *Couldn't do it. *No display. *Pation Furniture was there
instead.

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

I suggested that I never bought things like that from pictures, and he
agreed, but said no one at the decision level wanted to hear concerns
from the front lines. *I look to see big iron tools dropped from their
stores pretty soon, cause they don't sell any without working display
models. *Watch for the closeouts, might be able to score a gloat or
two.

Old Guy

They did this at a Home depot near me a couple a months ago. The floor
displays they had were sold at 30% off. The only had the jointer and
drill press left to sell when I got there. I already had a new jointer
just got last fall but the drill now sits in my shop...

Randy
http://nokeswoodworks.com

"Old Guy" wrote in message
...

Well, the folks we love to hate have done it again.

The LOML and I went to Home Depot, and I got my errands done before
she did, so I went to drool over the stationary power tools while I
waited. Couldn't do it. No display. Pation Furniture was there
instead.

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

I suggested that I never bought things like that from pictures, and he
agreed, but said no one at the decision level wanted to hear concerns
from the front lines. I look to see big iron tools dropped from their
stores pretty soon, cause they don't sell any without working display
models. Watch for the closeouts, might be able to score a gloat or
two.


Yeah - it's true that people who make decisions make those decisions based
on what they observe and someone "on the front lines" is always going to be
upset. But - in the world of retail, leaving hunks of iron or any other
product out on the floor, just because you or I like to drool over it
without purchasing, is quite foolish. That floor space is needed for the
things that will turn cash. Like it or not - this time of year, they are
going to turn cash with patio stuff. I'd be willing to bet that if you were
seriously looking to buy, someone would have opened up all the boxes you
wanted to see. But you weren't - and you're commenting about them providing
for the most of their customers (as indicated by the floor sales), because
like the rest of us, you just wanted to drool over the tools. For all the
bitching that goes on around here about every retailer out there, one would
think that people would find it agreeable that a major retailer would
dedicate their floor space to the products that the consumers are really
after at any given time of year.

As for never buying things from pictures - good for you. I do buy some
things just from pictures. I just bought a new spray gun just from a
picture on a web site. Didn't need to handle it or anything else, to know
what I was going to get. In your case, you weren't even going to buy, so
what's the big deal?

Sorry - this is just my personal campaign against all of the posts that
populate this forum that bitch about what the big retailers do, regardless
of how practical those decisions may really be in light of the population
they serve, or the realities of business.

--

-Mike-

I wonder how many tools Old Guy has bought online or over the phone or
mail order without ever handling or seeing them in person. Or seeing
and handling them in person from a local retailer and then purchasing
them online at a lower price. For specialty activities, like
recreational home woodworking, online/catalog/mail order/phone
purchasing probably consumes a considerable amount of the sales
revenue. I would guess almost all of the Grizzly machine owners on
this forum never saw their machines before they were delivered.




On May 1, 7:12*am, "Mike Marlow" wrote:
"Old Guy" wrote in message

...





Well, the folks we love to hate have done it again.

The LOML and I went to *Home Depot, and I got my errands done before
she did, so I went to drool over the stationary power tools while I
waited. *Couldn't do it. *No display. *Pation Furniture was there
instead.

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

I suggested that I never bought things like that from pictures, and he
agreed, but said no one at the decision level wanted to hear concerns
from the front lines. *I look to see big iron tools dropped from their
stores pretty soon, cause they don't sell any without working display
models. *Watch for the closeouts, might be able to score a gloat or
two.

Yeah - it's true that people who make decisions make those decisions based
on what they observe and someone "on the front lines" is always going to be
upset. *But - in the world of retail, leaving hunks of iron or any other
product out on the floor, just because you or I like to drool over it
without purchasing, is quite foolish. *That floor space is needed for the
things that will turn cash. *Like it or not - this time of year, they are
going to turn cash with patio stuff. *I'd be willing to bet that if you were
seriously looking to buy, someone would have opened up all the boxes you
wanted to see. *But you weren't - and you're commenting about them providing
for the most of their customers (as indicated by the floor sales), because
like the rest of us, you just wanted to drool over the tools. *For all the
bitching that goes on around here about every retailer out there, one would
think that people would find it agreeable that a major retailer would
dedicate their floor space to the products that the consumers are really
after at any given time of year.

As for never buying things from pictures - good for you. *I do buy some
things just from pictures. *I just bought a new spray gun just from a
picture on a web site. *Didn't need to handle it or anything else, to know
what I was going to get. *In your case, you weren't even going to buy, so
what's the big deal?

Sorry - this is just my personal campaign against all of the posts that
populate this forum that bitch about what the big retailers do, regardless
of how practical those decisions may really be in light of the population
they serve, or the realities of business.

--

-Mike-
- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Thu, 1 May 2008 08:12:19 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


"Old Guy" wrote in message
...


a lot of relevant and accurate info snipped


Sorry - this is just my personal campaign against all of the posts that
populate this forum that bitch about what the big retailers do, regardless
of how practical those decisions may really be in light of the population
they serve, or the realities of business.


Over my many years with Delta, one of the things I used to hate to
hear from marketing is "we've just cut a deal with (fill in your
favorite big box retailer) to offer selected units in the industrial
line".

I would be guaranteed the necessity for working overtime in a chaotic
manner to fill the units per store requirements by the contract time
since they were never part of the original forecast.

A year or two later, I could be guaranteed that I would have a large
inventory reset with units sent bact to the factory as the current set
of big box execs. figured out how dismal their inventory turns were on
the iron and their minimum ratio of turns to space couldn't be met.

During the contract, I could be guaranteed that my warranty would go
up due to the liberal big box return policy and the inability of the
machinery sales people to make sales stick. The "I'm finished with my
project, think I'll take this thing back and get my money back"
syndrome.

And the cycle would repeat itself as soon as the memory of the past
faded, or the big box buying execs turned over. For the
manufacturer's marketing arm, it's like candy, you just can't resist
it.

IMHO heavy iron belongs with the local distributor. Their sales and
service personnel are generally properly trained for the task.

Frank

Frank Boettcher wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2008 08:12:19 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


"Old Guy" wrote in message
...


a lot of relevant and accurate info snipped


Sorry - this is just my personal campaign against all of the posts
that populate this forum that bitch about what the big retailers
do,
regardless of how practical those decisions may really be in light
of the population they serve, or the realities of business.


Over my many years with Delta, one of the things I used to hate to
hear from marketing is "we've just cut a deal with (fill in your
favorite big box retailer) to offer selected units in the industrial
line".

I would be guaranteed the necessity for working overtime in a
chaotic
manner to fill the units per store requirements by the contract time
since they were never part of the original forecast.

A year or two later, I could be guaranteed that I would have a large
inventory reset with units sent bact to the factory as the current
set
of big box execs. figured out how dismal their inventory turns were
on
the iron and their minimum ratio of turns to space couldn't be met.

During the contract, I could be guaranteed that my warranty would go
up due to the liberal big box return policy and the inability of the
machinery sales people to make sales stick. The "I'm finished with
my
project, think I'll take this thing back and get my money back"
syndrome.

Did you get many of the "I need a new part, I'll buy a tool, pull the
part, and return the tool sans part or with the busted one" syndrome?

And the cycle would repeat itself as soon as the memory of the past
faded, or the big box buying execs turned over. For the
manufacturer's marketing arm, it's like candy, you just can't resist
it.

IMHO heavy iron belongs with the local distributor. Their sales and
service personnel are generally properly trained for the task.

Frank

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

I have since had people suggest to me that any "special"
tools needed for a project can be done in a similar manner.

I thought it was maybe one or two out of a thousand, but now
I believe it is a wildly popular method.



Frank Boettcher wrote:

The "I'm finished with my project, think I'll take this
thing back and get my money back" syndrome.

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

I have since had people suggest to me that any "special"
tools needed for a project can be done in a similar manner.

I thought it was maybe one or two out of a thousand, but now
I believe it is a wildly popular method.


It is also a popular method of cleaning the basement after local flooding.
We all pay higher prices for our tools because of these bozos.

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

I have since had people suggest to me that any "special"
tools needed for a project can be done in a similar manner.

I thought it was maybe one or two out of a thousand, but now
I believe it is a wildly popular method.


When going to school and working part time in the early 70's I worked in the
automotive department of the old Woolco stores. Next to our department was
the Glidden paint department. Even back then paint that was being returned
for a refund had to be inspected to insure that a refund on a paint can full
of water was not being given.

"Pat Barber" wrote:

You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

A 25% restocking charge, but only with a receipt would solve that
problem in a hurry; however, until the retailers figure out it has to
be done by the entire retail industry, it won't happen.

At the industrial level, returns are few and far between, almost
always with a restocking charge.

Lew

On May 1, 7:12 am, "Mike Marlow" wrote:


Sorry - this is just my personal campaign against all of the posts that
populate this forum that bitch about what the big retailers do, regardless
of how practical those decisions may really be in light of the population
they serve, or the realities of business.

Strange, isn't it? Some will post here with great glee about getting
a real bargain at the store, or pronounce how they took something back
that didn't meet their high personal standards of quality after using
it on a few projects. They like the no questions asked policy on
returns as they can take back a product if they just don't like it.
Due to big box policy that has developed over the years, it is now an
American right to return something on a whim.

Yet, we expect a lot from these folks. We always want the lowest
price, the best service, the finest selection of products (American
made if possible) as well as tool quality that goes from the best to
throw away junk that costs nothing.

And of course, while keeping margins really thin (my old commercial
rep showed me their markup many products I bought) and beating the
living snot out of their suppliers at every turn. And on that slim
markup we expect them to have knowledgeable, friendly, semi-retired
contractors on hand to dispense advice and instruct some wannabe on
building a ****ing birdhouse.

If they don't get that kind of treatment from a patient, fatherly
instructor type that really cares about them and their needs, they run
back here and tell the tale of their arch nemesis, "the pimple faced
kid". It's always the same with that guy that wasn't respectful
enough, helpful enough, knowledgeable enough, or didn't snap to so
they could give great service immediately. They despise him. There
seems to be a great joy in sharing how they laid some kid low, and
then huffed out of the store without a purchase. I am sure all the
big boxes stood up and took notice.

All of these big boxes are no more than commodities brokers. They are
moving units through the system, and it wouldn't matter if it was
bricks or barbecue charcoal. Big boxes don't care what they sell, and
never have.

Their entire business model is now and has been since their inception
to provide enough service to get you to come back, but more
importantly, find the price point that will make want to put up with
their shortcomings. If they fail, they put that in the equation as
well, and they advertise to attract more customers to keep widget
volume up.

So really, I do hope these same whiners let us all know when they find
that perfect place that has the lowest prices in town, the best
service that can be bought, polite employees that are ready to help,
an endless supply and selection of tools and products on display
waiting to be fondled, and personal instructors that could be making
50K a year somewhere else working for 25K so they can answer all the
inane and pedantic questions some can imagine.

Just my thoughts...

Robert

"bob kater" wrote in message
...

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message
. ..

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

I have since had people suggest to me that any "special"
tools needed for a project can be done in a similar manner.

I thought it was maybe one or two out of a thousand, but now
I believe it is a wildly popular method.

It is also a popular method of cleaning the basement after local
flooding.
We all pay higher prices for our tools because of these bozos.


My neighbor just did the same thing except it was his electronics.
Except.... He charged them, brought them home, 15 days later he reports a
break-in..... Files insurance, gets the money to replace them, pays off
the credit card charge.... Gets his friend to bring them back and he has
beautiful electronics for free. Had a party a couple of weeks ago (open
house) and invites a cop.. he checks serial number on the items as he is
aware of the breakin and he now sit in the jail for insurance fraud.



Ahhh..., the insurance fraud thing. Two thoughts...

Your neighbor got just what he deserved. I hope it was worth it for him.

Secondly, insurance companies are putting more and more people into fraud
investigations. The reason is simple. It doesn't cost them anything. Every
dime that it takes to pay these guys is less than the recovery/savings on
bad claims.

"Frank Boettcher" wrote

Over my many years with Delta, one of the things I used to hate to
hear from marketing is "we've just cut a deal with (fill in your
favorite big box retailer) to offer selected units in the industrial
line".

I would be guaranteed the necessity for working overtime in a chaotic
manner to fill the units per store requirements by the contract time
since they were never part of the original forecast.

A year or two later, I could be guaranteed that I would have a large
inventory reset with units sent bact to the factory as the current set
of big box execs. figured out how dismal their inventory turns were on
the iron and their minimum ratio of turns to space couldn't be met.

During the contract, I could be guaranteed that my warranty would go
up due to the liberal big box return policy and the inability of the
machinery sales people to make sales stick. The "I'm finished with my
project, think I'll take this thing back and get my money back"
syndrome.

And the cycle would repeat itself as soon as the memory of the past
faded, or the big box buying execs turned over. For the
manufacturer's marketing arm, it's like candy, you just can't resist
it.

IMHO heavy iron belongs with the local distributor. Their sales and
service personnel are generally properly trained for the task.

A remarkable treatise on the vagaries of "educating beyond intelligence"
versus "common sense", left un-snipped on purpose for posterity!




--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On May 1, 10:35 am, Pat Barber wrote:
You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

I have since had people suggest to me that any "special"
tools needed for a project can be done in a similar manner.

I thought it was maybe one or two out of a thousand, but now
I believe it is a wildly popular method.

Frank Boettcher wrote:

The "I'm finished with my project, think I'll take this
thing back and get my money back" syndrome.

It is indeed. And until this very last year, one of the HDs I go to
would take back a Christmas tree if it turned out to be "too dry" to
last until New Years.

I wrote this incident before. I bought a little trim gun(s) and
cheapie compressor combo at HD that had a sticker on it that said in
BIG letters to call their toll free number, and NOT to take it back to
the store. When I had a problem with the little brad nailer, they
sent me a new one rather than to have me take it back to HD. They
told me that on their combo kits, they were literally getting raped by
HD when they took them back as RTVs. The combo kit would come back
with the cheaper brad gun, no hoses, no nails, no cases, nothing .
Just a compressor and the lesser value gun.

When the advised HD to look at the box and make sure that everything
was in the return box that was in the original sale box, HD didn't
respond well. Eventually, the guy at the vendor told me that HD would
take back a compressor and nailgun without the box and give back the
cash. People literally bought the combo, took back some of the pieces
and pawned the more expensive (15 ga angle) nailer and made money.

That vendor told me that HD almost put them out of business as they
required 5000 units to be shipped as "combos" before they would sign a
contract.

Robert

On Thu, 01 May 2008 15:35:41 +0000, Pat Barber wrote:

You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

The first I heard of it was several years ago when a guy who ran a camping
goods store told me I wouldn't believe how many tents he sold - for two
weeks! He also told me how much he added to the price of tents to allow
for that, but I forget the percentage - it was however, up in double
digits.

I can't comprehend people who have that little ethics and that much gall.
They might as well just rob the store, but that would make them liable for
criminal penalties. Hmmmmm ...

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:56:54 -0700, Old Guy wrote:

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

Interesting. I bought the Ridgid oscillating spindle/belt sander Monday
and the store looked just like always. I'll have to check it out next
time I'm in there. But right now I wonder if it wasn't just that store.

BTW, sometimes we get lucky. I knew prices were going up almost
everywhere as a result of the tanking dollar and fuel costs, so I went to
get the sander while the $199 price was still in effect. They had
coupons for a dollar amount off depending on purchase amount hanging in
various places in the tool aisle. I got $30 off on the sander! Usually
those sales occur the day after I buy something :-).

On Thu, 1 May 2008 10:53:17 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Frank Boettcher wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2008 08:12:19 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


Did you get many of the "I need a new part, I'll buy a tool, pull the
part, and return the tool sans part or with the busted one" syndrome?


Hard to say, information coming back was often sketchy. Picture an
RSR (retail sales rep), usually young and fairly inexperienced who
gets to the store, has to set up any aisle displays that have been
authorized, check shelf stock,cleans stuff up, sets up a reorder,
maybe has an in store class to give, then lastly heads for the return
cage to authorize the RMA's for an equally inexperienced store clerk.
Most reasons are "alledged defective" Then rushes out because he's
got three more stores to get to today. And both these individuals are
more used to dealing in small stuff, much of which has a "destroy in
field" policy.

Industrial distributors and the sales people who call on them, are
more like old partners, tend to know their customers, can spot
customers who might have a history of questionable returns, can
immediately fix problems to keep returns from happening in the first
place. It's where heavy iron belongs.



Frank



--

Just heard on the radio that HD is closing 15 stores due to lagging sales.
Maybe their sales model is not working well.
"Old Guy" wrote in message
...
Well, the folks we love to hate have done it again.

The LOML and I went to Home Depot, and I got my errands done before
she did, so I went to drool over the stationary power tools while I
waited. Couldn't do it. No display. Pation Furniture was there
instead.

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

I suggested that I never bought things like that from pictures, and he
agreed, but said no one at the decision level wanted to hear concerns
from the front lines. I look to see big iron tools dropped from their
stores pretty soon, cause they don't sell any without working display
models. Watch for the closeouts, might be able to score a gloat or
two.

Old Guy

Lee Michaels wrote:

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

I have since had people suggest to me that any "special"
tools needed for a project can be done in a similar manner.

I thought it was maybe one or two out of a thousand, but now
I believe it is a wildly popular method.


It is also a popular method of cleaning the basement after local
flooding. We all pay higher prices for our tools because of
these bozos.

Eww. That kind of dishonesty never even occurred to me.

I did laugh some years ago when a friend took a worn-out BB gun back
to Wal-mart. His intention was to buy a new one, so he took the old
one with him to show the kind he wanted. When he got there a clerk
insisted that he return it. The return form asked why he was
returning it. He wrote, "wore out". They gave him a new one.

Yup, HD is closing 15 under performing stores and stopping the opening
of FIFTY stores.

At HDepot returns I stood behind a pair of losers that returned three
tree trimming saw chains.
They said their boss got them new that morning, but they were already
worn and dull. Farkers.

wrote:

[snip - no need for me to copy the entire post]

So really, I do hope these same whiners let us all know when
they find that perfect place that has the lowest prices in
town, the best service that can be bought, polite employees
that are ready to help, an endless supply and selection of tools
and products on display waiting to be fondled, and personal
instructors that could be making 50K a year somewhere else
working for 25K so they can answer all the inane and pedantic
questions some can imagine.

Here in Cincinnati I go to Mueller Company
http://www.muellerco.com/. They're not the cheapest place in town,
but their sales staff is knowledgeable and courteous. I bought a
band saw there a few years ago. When I got it home I discovered that
one of the wheels was cracked. I took it back a day or two later and
added more money to buy an American-made saw (which I still have).
When I buy a good table saw to replace the el cheapo thing I bought
used, I intend to go to Mueller. I could get it cheaper online, but
I try to patronize local stores when I can. In this case I can. I
bought a floor-model drill press, a planer, a (small) jointer, and
some other equipment from them. (clamps, etc)

I have no connection to them, in fact I think I annoy some of the
sales staff, but I like the place.

wrote in message
...
On May 1, 7:12 am, "Mike Marlow" wrote:


Sorry - this is just my personal campaign against all of the posts that
populate this forum that bitch about what the big retailers do,
regardless
of how practical those decisions may really be in light of the population
they serve, or the realities of business.

Strange, isn't it? Some will post here with great glee about getting
a real bargain at the store, or pronounce how they took something back
that didn't meet their high personal standards of quality after using
it on a few projects. They like the no questions asked policy on
returns as they can take back a product if they just don't like it.
Due to big box policy that has developed over the years, it is now an
American right to return something on a whim.


snip some great stuff that I'm going to keep, and use in my next rant...

Sing it brotha! Swingman - give him a groove to get this thing lifted up.
I'll throw in a couple of accent leads, as long as we don't mind an
occasional missed note. I'll crank the gain up so the missed notes aren't
so apparent.

--

-Mike-

"sweet sawdust" wrote in message
.. .

Just heard on the radio that HD is closing 15 stores due to lagging sales.
Maybe their sales model is not working well.

It's a tough economy out there. The average HD or Lowes store runs on about
a 7% storewide margin - that's not a lot of margin. Little room for error.

--

-Mike-

With-in a few miles of my home I have a Home Depot and a hardware store that
has been around since the 50s. If I want to buy a large tool in HD it's in a
box, if I want to buy the same tool in the hardware store he has a catalog
(picture) and can order it for me. So it is about a horse a piece.

Most tool makers have excellent web sites were you can get a wealth of
knowledge on what you're after, which in most cases will be more accurate
than the salesperson anywhere. So I have no problem buying that way if I've
done my research. At which point it comes down to who has the best price.
--
Mike
Watch for the bounce.
If ya didn't see it, ya didn't feel it.
If ya see it, it didn't go off.
Old Air Force Munitions Saying
IYAAYAS
"Old Guy" wrote in message
...
Well, the folks we love to hate have done it again.

The LOML and I went to Home Depot, and I got my errands done before
she did, so I went to drool over the stationary power tools while I
waited. Couldn't do it. No display. Pation Furniture was there
instead.

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

I suggested that I never bought things like that from pictures, and he
agreed, but said no one at the decision level wanted to hear concerns
from the front lines. I look to see big iron tools dropped from their
stores pretty soon, cause they don't sell any without working display
models. Watch for the closeouts, might be able to score a gloat or
two.

Old Guy

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:56:54 -0700, Old Guy wrote:

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided
that the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they
still
had the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what
they looked like, but that was it.

Interesting. I bought the Ridgid oscillating spindle/belt sander
Monday and the store looked just like always. I'll have to check it
out next time I'm in there. But right now I wonder if it wasn't
just
that store.

Somebody pointed out that they don't have the tools on display unless
they are near a Lowes. Well, the HD down the street doesn't have
tools on display. The one across the street from Coastal doesn't have
tools on display, but sure enough, the one in Manchester across the
street from Lowes _does_ have the tools on display.

BTW, sometimes we get lucky. I knew prices were going up almost
everywhere as a result of the tanking dollar and fuel costs, so I
went to get the sander while the $199 price was still in effect.
They had coupons for a dollar amount off depending on purchase
amount
hanging in various places in the tool aisle. I got $30 off on the
sander! Usually those sales occur the day after I buy something
:-).

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On May 1, 11:35 am, Pat Barber wrote:
You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

I have since had people suggest to me that any "special"
tools needed for a project can be done in a similar manner.

I thought it was maybe one or two out of a thousand, but now
I believe it is a wildly popular method.

Frank Boettcher wrote:

The "I'm finished with my project, think I'll take this
thing back and get my money back" syndrome.

I have a friend who "borrowed" a PC saw from, I think, HD. The day he
was returning it, I asked why. He was done with it. I blew my stack.
He still has the saw, a decade later...one of the last U.S. made ones,
too.

"Mike Marlow" wrote in
:

That floor
space is needed for the things that will turn cash.

Yuppers. Companies/stores are in business to make money. This same trend
can be seen in other markets as well, esp. as economic times make money
more dear. Look at the changes at Radio Shack. At one time you could buy
a whole wealth of component parts there, and had a good chance of finding
someone at the store that knew electronics. Now you can hardly find a
fuse, and all you get are blank stares when you ask an electronics-related
question. But then that whole market is going down hill. When was the
last time you say a TV repair shop? Why fix when it's easier/cheaper to
buy a new one. NO ONE does component-level repair on computers either.

Mike Marlow wrote:


"sweet sawdust" wrote in message
.. .

Just heard on the radio that HD is closing 15 stores due to lagging
sales. Maybe their sales model is not working well.

It's a tough economy out there. The average HD or Lowes store runs on
about
a 7% storewide margin - that's not a lot of margin. Little room for
error.


That, and HD has not been brilliantly managed in the past several years.
HD stock prices tanked several years ago (~$50 down to ~$30) and held
nearly steady for the past 5 or 6 years. Even when the economy and housing
market were doing well, their stock prices were sucking wind, never
reaching the $50 post-9/11 price (yes, that is right, after the 9/11 crash,
HD recovered to $50, then headed straight south). Lowe's hasn't done a
whole lot better, but seems to be more consistent.

Bottom line, HD really can't blame this debacle on the economy, they have
a more fundamental problem.


--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

"Old Guy" wrote in message
...
Well, the folks we love to hate have done it again.

The LOML and I went to Home Depot, and I got my errands done before
she did, so I went to drool over the stationary power tools while I
waited. Couldn't do it. No display. Pation Furniture was there
instead.

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

I suggested that I never bought things like that from pictures, and he
agreed, but said no one at the decision level wanted to hear concerns
from the front lines. I look to see big iron tools dropped from their
stores pretty soon, cause they don't sell any without working display
models. Watch for the closeouts, might be able to score a gloat or
two.

Old Guy

Wow, and I was just at my local Lowes store and their power tool area seems
to be larger than the last time I was in there.
Three larger sizes was set up, a Delta, Dewalt and a Bosch were there.

Bob Alexander wrote:
Wow, and I was just at my local Lowes store and their power tool area seems
to be larger than the last time I was in there.
Three larger sizes was set up, a Delta, Dewalt and a Bosch were there.


I've always had a strong preference for Lowes over HD. I've been in HD a
thousand times and I still can't just go directly to what I'm looking for. I'm
almost always able to do that at Lowes. I have to be desperate to shop at HD
these days.... and I've bought some big tools the my table saw and my floor
standing drill press.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote:

Bob Alexander wrote:
Wow, and I was just at my local Lowes store and their power tool area
seems to be larger than the last time I was in there.
Three larger sizes was set up, a Delta, Dewalt and a Bosch were
there.


I've always had a strong preference for Lowes over HD. I've been in
HD a thousand times and I still can't just go directly to what I'm
looking for. I'm almost always able to do that at Lowes. I have to
be desperate to shop at HD these days.... and I've bought some big
tools the my table saw and my floor standing drill press.




Lowes has better lighting (nice to See what you're buying), is overall
cleaner, and lately seems to have more knowledgeable help. Kinda
different having the sales clerk point out the merits of several brands
of saw!

When I comes to HD or Lowes so much of what we see in our local one has to
do with the manager and maybe their immediate boss. The HD near me was
definitely in bad shape when I moved into my home five years ago. However
about three or four months ago it was obvious someone new took over, it is
now better organized, cleaner and employees are asking if you need help
again. It is one with large displayed tools removed, but I can deal with
it.

Meanwhile the local Lowes' which I use to drive the extra fifteen to twenty
minutes to has steadily gone down hill, seems to have a huge number of
employees all moving briskly somewhere, but actually doing nothing. Reminds
me of the Drill Sergeant from basic training who let us goof off one
afternoon but told us to "Make sure you mill about smartly!". The tool area
looks like a tornado went through and it's the one place you can never find
anyone to help. The condition of the tools on display is definitely not
making Porter-Cable, Delta and Black & Decker merger any sales, it looks
like a swap meet thirty minutes before closing. The placards would be
better.

Yet I've been in other ones of both and it varies so much from store to
store, you just really have to pick and choose. The number one rule for both
is don't go on the weekend especially in the spring.

--
Mike
Watch for the bounce.
If ya didn't see it, ya didn't feel it.
If ya see it, it didn't go off.
Old Air Force Munitions Saying
IYAAYAS
"Bob Alexander" wrote in message
.. .

"Old Guy" wrote in message
...
Well, the folks we love to hate have done it again.

The LOML and I went to Home Depot, and I got my errands done before
she did, so I went to drool over the stationary power tools while I
waited. Couldn't do it. No display. Pation Furniture was there
instead.

The person at the Contractor desk said that Corporate had decided that
the tool display wasn't bringing in enough sales, so they still had
the tools, in the box, and they could show me pictures of what they
looked like, but that was it.

I suggested that I never bought things like that from pictures, and he
agreed, but said no one at the decision level wanted to hear concerns
from the front lines. I look to see big iron tools dropped from their
stores pretty soon, cause they don't sell any without working display
models. Watch for the closeouts, might be able to score a gloat or
two.

Old Guy

Wow, and I was just at my local Lowes store and their power tool area
seems to be larger than the last time I was in there.
Three larger sizes was set up, a Delta, Dewalt and a Bosch were there.

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
You know Frank... I found that hard to believe until
I actually heard a guy bragging about bringing a shop vac
back to Sears after he had used it to clean up his garage.

I have since had people suggest to me that any "special"
tools needed for a project can be done in a similar manner.

I thought it was maybe one or two out of a thousand, but now
I believe it is a wildly popular method.



Frank Boettcher wrote:

The "I'm finished with my project, think I'll take this
thing back and get my money back" syndrome.

Around here the returns desk is populated with low paid teenage girls who
are too busy gabbing about the party last night or flirting with some
teenage boys, to do their job right. At the best of times they don't even
know what the item returned does or how it operates. All you have to say is
it doesn't work, and they will refund your money, as they couldn't determine
if you are right or wrong or cheating.

Again management does itself in.

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...


Around here the returns desk is populated with low paid teenage girls who
are too busy gabbing about the party last night or flirting with some
teenage boys, to do their job right. At the best of times they don't even
know what the item returned does or how it operates. All you have to say
is it doesn't work, and they will refund your money, as they couldn't
determine if you are right or wrong or cheating.


To be fair - they are cashiers, not product specialists. I don't expect a
cashier to know anything about the product she is checking out.

--

-Mike-

On Fri, 02 May 2008 15:53:40 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

To be fair - they are cashiers, not product specialists. I don't expect a
cashier to know anything about the product she is checking out.

That's why Woodcraft (and others) don't have "cashiers" as such.
Whoever is near the cash register does the job.

But I wouldn't expect a big box store to do it that way - too much real
estate to cover :-). So in that sense you're right.

"Mike Marlow" wrote

To be fair - they are cashiers, not product specialists. I don't expect a
cashier to know anything about the product she is checking out.

Used to be a cashier used a cash register as a tool in transacting business;
nowadays the cash register transacts the business, and uses the cashier as a
tool for data input.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/27/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 02 May 2008 16:00:11 -0700, Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Fri, 02 May 2008 15:53:40 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:

To be fair - they are cashiers, not product specialists. I don't expect a
cashier to know anything about the product she is checking out.

That's why Woodcraft (and others) don't have "cashiers" as such.
Whoever is near the cash register does the job.

Right! At the bicycle shop, whoever is dealing with the customer
rings them out. We don't do commission, so that's not why we do it
this way.

We also do the "Nordstom's" treatment, where we walk the customer to
the item (or dressing room, service dept., bathroom, etc...), rather
than pointing them in the proper direction.

BTW... in the middle of "The Current Recession", the bicycle shop
just had the best April in the 12 years of current ownership.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Fri, 2 May 2008 18:26:52 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote

To be fair - they are cashiers, not product specialists. I don't expect a
cashier to know anything about the product she is checking out.

Used to be a cashier used a cash register as a tool in transacting business;
nowadays the cash register transacts the business, and uses the cashier as a
tool for data input.

And try to find one at Home Despot.

All going to self check up here.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

B A R R Y wrote:

We also do the "Nordstom's" treatment, where we walk the customer to
the item (or dressing room, service dept., bathroom, etc...), rather
than pointing them in the proper direction.

Had that happen twice in the local Lowes last week. Sometimes I'll ask them
just to point so I can browse along the way.

"Swingman" wrote:



"Mike Marlow" wrote

To be fair - they are cashiers, not product specialists. I don't
expect a cashier to know anything about the product she is checking
out.

Used to be a cashier used a cash register as a tool in transacting
business; nowadays the cash register transacts the business, and uses
the cashier as a tool for data input.

Out here on the Upper Left Coast we are seeing more and more self serve
registers. Typically one employee covers 6-8 of them. Instead of a
friendly face and maybe some conversation, you get to listen to the guy
at the next register bitching about the scanner and he gets to hear you
cursing under your breath when yours tells you to take the item out of
the bag for the fourth time.