Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth. Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad

Brad,

Are you looking at the group in the group view? That is, just the
rec.woodworking group? If you are, and you click on a thread, you will be
brought to the part of the thread upon which you clicked, with the index of
the thread in the left frame. Just drag that frame to the top and click on
the first message before closing the frame.

Why is it you can't use a news reader?

-jtpr

©¿©¬

PS: I tried to send this via email and it got bounced.


--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"brad" wrote in message
om...
Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth. Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad

Brad:

I use Google groups, too, and I've found the "With Frames"/"Without
Frames" options to be a bit flaky. Sometimes, I turn frames on to
pick out a particular post in a thread...and then I have to select
"Without Frames" 2-3 times before it "gets it". And you're right--you
can navigate to a specific message using frames, but then when you
turn frames off you go back to the beginning of the thread. I think
it has to do with the way GG "rebuilds" the list of posts with vs.
without frames, but that's just a guess.

I think your preferences (with/without frames, plus your login
credentials) get saved in a cookie (cookies....mmmmmmmm.... (C: )...if
you periodically delete your cookies (or "toss your cookies"-HAHA!),
that could reset your privileges--or if you have your security level
set too high, IE (assuming you're using that) may prevent cookies from
being saved.

Hope this helps...
Jim

(brad) wrote in message . com...
Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth. Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad

"jtpr" wrote in message ...
Brad,

Are you looking at the group in the group view?

Not exactly sure what that means...

That is, just the rec.woodworking group?


Um, well, yes. I go to google, click "groups," click "rec," and
choose rec.woodworking. I have it bookmarked so I usually just go
directly there. I hope I'm answering what you're asking. The only
group I see is rec.woodworking.

If you are, and you click on a thread, you will be
brought to the part of the thread upon which you clicked, with the index of
the thread in the left frame.

Yes, that has been my experience on those occasions when frames are
displayed. But my question is, WHY are frames displayed sometimes and
not other times? Personally I find the frames a PIA and would rather
not see them. I don't know how to turn them off permanently, and I
don't know why they seem to appear randomly.


Just drag that frame to the top and click on
the first message before closing the frame.


Yup, could do that. But I'd rather just not see frames to begin with.
Plus, when google shows up in "frames mode," I have to close the
frames each and every time I want to read a new thread. Isn't there
some way to permanently turn them off?




Why is it you can't use a news reader?

Guess I could but I was perfectly happy with Google groups until this
issue arose recently. It did everything I needed it to do, and I
really just didn't have any need to learn a news reader. This worked
fine. And no, I have no idea why the problem arose. I'm not aware of
having changed any computer settings,downloading anything new, or any
of the other issues People Who Know More About Computers Than I Do
(almost everyone) always ask me in these situations.


Thanks for bearing with me....




-jtpr

©¿©¬

PS: I tried to send this via email and it got bounced.


--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"brad" wrote in message
om...
Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth. Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad

(PC Gameplayer) wrote in message . com...
Brad:


I think your preferences (with/without frames, plus your login
credentials) get saved in a cookie (cookies....mmmmmmmm.... (C: )...if
you periodically delete your cookies (or "toss your cookies"-HAHA!),
that could reset your privileges--or if you have your security level
set too high, IE (assuming you're using that) may prevent cookies from
being saved.

Hope this helps...
Jim


Aaaahhhhh, now I think you may be on to something here. I DO delete
cookies from time to time. I've never thought about whether the
re-appearance of frames bears any relation to having done that though.
I will see if it does.

Thank you Jim!






(brad) wrote in message . com...
Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth. Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad

Brad,

You should really give the newsreader in Outlook Express a try. It is very
intuitive and there is no delay like Google when posting. I use Google for
searching and Outlook for reading/posting. There are other readers out
there, but for what you are doing, Outlook Express is just fine. If you
want, please feel free to contact me via mail and I'll give you my number
and walk you through setting it up, I don't mind and would be happy to help.

--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"brad" wrote in message
om...
(PC Gameplayer) wrote in message
. com...
Brad:


I think your preferences (with/without frames, plus your login
credentials) get saved in a cookie (cookies....mmmmmmmm.... (C: )...if
you periodically delete your cookies (or "toss your cookies"-HAHA!),
that could reset your privileges--or if you have your security level
set too high, IE (assuming you're using that) may prevent cookies from
being saved.

Hope this helps...
Jim


Aaaahhhhh, now I think you may be on to something here. I DO delete
cookies from time to time. I've never thought about whether the
re-appearance of frames bears any relation to having done that though.
I will see if it does.

Thank you Jim!






(brad) wrote in message
. com...
Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth. Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad

Hey thanks. I did not know about that No Frame thing.
What I always did was click to the 1st post, then I would drag the
right window over torwards the left to fill the screen.
But sometimes, (on more than 1 computer,) if I was not carefull and
did it too fast, I would get this "run time error" and I wolld have to
click OK, and that would close the new window, and the google group I
was on .
See I always open a thread in a new window, cause I am on dial up,
and when I am done, I just close the window. Saves having to waite for
the page to reload.
Thanks, Tony D.



(brad) wrote in message
. com...
Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth. Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad

I think I will give Outlook Express a try, as you are not the first
person from whom I have heard that suggestion. I recall when I used to
be on AOL, someone on this group recommended a newsreader program
called "Free Agent." I downloaded it but could never get it to work
properly, and for me it was like a solution in search of a problem.
However, I will give Outlook Express a try.

Very kind of you to offer your help and I may take you up on it if I
am as clueless this time around as I was when I tried to use Free
Agent.

The people on this newsgroup are wonderful....

Thank you all.

Brad

"jtpr" wrote in message ...
Brad,

You should really give the newsreader in Outlook Express a try. It is very
intuitive and there is no delay like Google when posting. I use Google for
searching and Outlook for reading/posting. There are other readers out
there, but for what you are doing, Outlook Express is just fine. If you
want, please feel free to contact me via mail and I'll give you my number
and walk you through setting it up, I don't mind and would be happy to help.

--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"brad" wrote in message
om...
(PC Gameplayer) wrote in message
. com...
Brad:


I think your preferences (with/without frames, plus your login
credentials) get saved in a cookie (cookies....mmmmmmmm.... (C: )...if
you periodically delete your cookies (or "toss your cookies"-HAHA!),
that could reset your privileges--or if you have your security level
set too high, IE (assuming you're using that) may prevent cookies from
being saved.

Hope this helps...
Jim


Aaaahhhhh, now I think you may be on to something here. I DO delete
cookies from time to time. I've never thought about whether the
re-appearance of frames bears any relation to having done that though.
I will see if it does.

Thank you Jim!






(brad) wrote in message
. com...
Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth. Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad

I use Agent as well (the pay version of Free Agent). This is a very
powerful newsreader, but complicated. I'm a systems engineer by trade, so I
enjoy figuring it out. It most definitely is overkill for an occasional
user. OE is much more intuitive and will bring more enjoyment to following
the group. Don't hesitate to contact me, I like helping people find a
better way to use the technology.

--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"brad" wrote in message
om...
I think I will give Outlook Express a try, as you are not the first
person from whom I have heard that suggestion. I recall when I used to
be on AOL, someone on this group recommended a newsreader program
called "Free Agent." I downloaded it but could never get it to work
properly, and for me it was like a solution in search of a problem.
However, I will give Outlook Express a try.

Very kind of you to offer your help and I may take you up on it if I
am as clueless this time around as I was when I tried to use Free
Agent.

The people on this newsgroup are wonderful....

Thank you all.

Brad

"jtpr" wrote in message
...
Brad,

You should really give the newsreader in Outlook Express a try. It is
very
intuitive and there is no delay like Google when posting. I use Google
for
searching and Outlook for reading/posting. There are other readers out
there, but for what you are doing, Outlook Express is just fine. If you
want, please feel free to contact me via mail and I'll give you my
number
and walk you through setting it up, I don't mind and would be happy to
help.

--
-Jim
©¿©¬

If you want to reply by email its -- ryan at jimryan dot com
Please use BCC and lets all avoid spam
"brad" wrote in message
om...
(PC Gameplayer) wrote in message
. com...
Brad:


I think your preferences (with/without frames, plus your login
credentials) get saved in a cookie (cookies....mmmmmmmm....
(C: )...if
you periodically delete your cookies (or "toss your cookies"-HAHA!),
that could reset your privileges--or if you have your security level
set too high, IE (assuming you're using that) may prevent cookies
from
being saved.

Hope this helps...
Jim


Aaaahhhhh, now I think you may be on to something here. I DO delete
cookies from time to time. I've never thought about whether the
re-appearance of frames bears any relation to having done that though.
I will see if it does.

Thank you Jim!






(brad) wrote in message
. com...
Fellow Wreckers-

I apologize for burdening you with such an OT post. I could have
spent a long time searching for and trying to figure this out on
my
own. I don't have the time and I'm hoping you'll understand and
be
your usual helpful selves.

I use google groups to follow this newsgroup. About half the time
I
go to rec.woodworking, when I click on a topic, instead of that
thread
coming up on my screen, at the first message in the thread, I
instead
see two "windows." The one on the left shows the identities of
the
various posters to the thread, in a list, in order. On the right
panel
are the thread messages themselves. Usually the message visible
in
the right panel is not the first message in the thread. To view
the
thread the way I am accustomed to and more comfortable doing, I
have
to: 1) scroll up the left "list" panel to the top, 2) click "no
frames," 3)then, after the view reverts to the way I'm accustomed
to,
with the messages appearing full screen, I have to navigate to the
start of the thread. What a pain!

And yet, I have NO idea why this happens only some times and not
others. I haven't changed any settings (that I'm aware of), and
I'm
certainly not intentionally changing any setting back and forth.
Yet,
this seems to happen completely randomly.

Any clues for the clueless?

Eternally Grateful,
Brad