One of my many goals in life is learning
how to finish a woodworking project
without making myself completely crazy.

In order to further this goal, learning
how to shoot a finish with a spray
gun ranks waaay up there.

I know a few of the folks on the list own
and use turbines of various flavors
and I have noticed a slight decline
in the cost of turbine outfits.

I found a low-end Turbinaire unit for $569
and a slighly better one for $697.

I might even find a used unit on Ebay... who knows ???

I have a large air compressor but after
doing a fair amount of research,
these turbine packages seem to be a
much better solution.

There is no concern of air quality,
no moisture issues, no junk in the air lines,
no concern of air quanity, large CFM numbers, etc,etc.

The overspray even
seems to be a non-problem with the HVLP technology.

Is this all hype or is this turbine the real answer
to getting a decent finish with a spray gun ???

I also assume a fairly stiff learning curve on
spraying.

Pat Barber wrote:


Is this all hype or is this turbine the real answer
to getting a decent finish with a spray gun ???

Not hype at all.


I also assume a fairly stiff learning curve on
spraying.

Depends on the finish, but not as stiff as you'd think. Many of the
basic techniques apply regardless of gun, and even apply to spray can
finishing. Can you get a good finish with a can?

I use a Fuji Mini Mite 4. This is exactly the same turbine as a Q4,
four stage unit, minus noise reduction features for a very reasonable price.

This guy is great to deal with:
http://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/MM4.html
and useful for the tech support that places like Amazon can't even begin
to provide.

I'm 'fair" with a can, but I'm getting better.

There is very little info out there on spray
finishing, so it appears to be a D.I.Y. for
most folks.

I see a lot of info on the Fuji systems.

Turbinaire also seems to get a lot of press.

I assume they are all "very" similar in
operation and costs.


B A R R Y wrote:

Depends on the finish, but not as stiff as you'd think. Many of the
basic techniques apply regardless of gun, and even apply to spray can
finishing. Can you get a good finish with a can?

I use a Fuji Mini Mite 4. This is exactly the same turbine as a Q4,
four stage unit, minus noise reduction features for a very reasonable
price.

This guy is great to deal with:
http://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/MM4.html
and useful for the tech support that places like Amazon can't even begin
to provide.

On Mar 3, 1:15*pm, Pat Barber wrote:
One of my many goals in life is learning
how to finish a woodworking *project
without making myself completely crazy.

In order to further this goal, learning
how to shoot a finish with a spray
gun ranks waaay up there.

I know a few of the folks on the list own
and use turbines of various flavors
and I have noticed a slight decline
in the cost of turbine outfits.

I found a low-end Turbinaire unit for $569
and a slighly better one for $697.

I might even find a used unit on Ebay... who knows ???

I have a large air compressor but after
doing a fair amount of research,
these turbine packages seem to be a
much better solution.

There is no concern of air quality,
no moisture issues, no junk in the air lines,
no concern of air quanity, large CFM numbers, etc,etc.

The overspray even
seems to be a non-problem with the HVLP technology.

Is this all hype or is this turbine the real answer
to getting a decent finish with a spray gun ???

I also assume a fairly stiff learning curve on
spraying.

I have a turbine HVLP spray unit. It leaves a beautiful finish, and
it's easy to use. But I only drag it out for really big finish
projects. It's so much trouble to clean up that I use wipe-on
finishes for smaller projects.

DonkeyHody
"We can't all be heros because somebody has to sit on the curb and
clap as they go by." - Will Rogers

On Mar 3, 3:06 pm, Pat Barber wrote:

I'm 'fair" with a can, but I'm getting better.

Personally, I still use rattle cans if the job calls for it. The only
two things I don't like about them is less than 30% material transfer
on target (which makes them cost much more than you might think!) and
the low quality nozzles they put on most cans.

There is very little info out there on spray
finishing, so it appears to be a D.I.Y. for
most folks.

Not at all. There is a lot of info online, and there is a lot of
information in print by different finishers. (Google "hvlp
technique", "hvlp application", "hvlp method", etc.) There are some
good softback books out there that appear from time to time in Barnes
and Noble, and at some of the used book stores.

You can also search this group through Google and find a lot of
information on technique, thinning protocols, material usage, etc.

I see a lot of info on the Fuji systems.

Excellent system. Like Barry, I have one of the Fuji "X"4 systems. I
have the Q4. I have used it a lot, and it is pretty bullet proof.
When I bought mine, the Mini Mites weren't being widely sold or I
might have bought that one as it is more affordable. I shoot stains,
dyes, enamels, polyurethanes, and lacquers with it. This unit will
put out a lot of cfms making sure you can apply just about any
coating, even more than other 4 stage units. I don't know how,
because something like 90% of all actual turbine assemblies for
serious hvlp systems are made by the same company.

The kicker is the support for the product. The link Barry posted is
where I got mine a couple of years ago, and Roger knows that product
frontwards and backwards, and you can call him anytime. He won't
teach you how to spray or apply, but he can tell you immediately if
your problems are in product or machine.

Turbinaire also seems to get a lot of press.

I almost bought the Turbinaire because of the gun. Well made,
balanced in the hand, and great fit and finish. It has is the only
true turbine hvlp gun that has a fully adjustable pattern (not just a
fixed detent position aircap) that works just like a high pressure
paint spray gun.

That is because it IS a converted paint spray gun. I went to a
Benjamin Moore sponsored event a couple of years ago to try this gun
out (OK... and eat some barbecue) along with some other guns. I
really liked the overall system, but Fuji won hands down on product
support and consumables affordability. You can buy everything from
Roger. And when I needed to speak to Roger, I found he always
answered his phone, one time while walking his dog.

I have this thing about support after the sale since I have been
drilled pretty hard a couple of times. After I got the info from
Turbinaire at the demo, I went around the corner and called customer
service on the phone. No one could answer my questions about
cfms, using a whip (extension) on the hose, or where to get the unit
fixed when it broke.

After I bought a Fuji system from Roger, I needed another aircap to
spray some really thin material. When I received a rusty aircap/needle
assembly from Roger, I was REALLY ****ed as I needed it to finish some
cabinets immediately after receipt. Roger used to be a finisher
himself, so he knew what was riding on the deal. He sent me a new
aircap via 2 day FedEx at his cost. All I had to do was to email him
a picture of the rust on the aircap. When I called make sure he got
the picture, he had already had the package picked up and it was on
its way.

I assume they are all "very" similar in
operation and costs.

Probably true. Some of the guns are really different though, and that
makes all the difference in the world on your final finish. You need
one that is comfortable in your hand, has a variety of AFFORDABLE
aircaps, filters, one way valves, etc. readily available for it. It
should be easy to break down and clean. Fit and finish is important
as well as the rougher finished guns tend to be harder to clean.

Depending on what kind of spraying you do and where you do it, you may
want a non bleeder or bleeder gun. I have both and prefer the non
bleeder, although the bleeder is just fine for 99% of my needs.

Good luck on your purchase.

Robert

DonkeyHody wrote:
On Mar 3, 1:15 pm, Pat Barber wrote:
One of my many goals in life is learning
how to finish a woodworking project
without making myself completely crazy.

In order to further this goal, learning
how to shoot a finish with a spray
gun ranks waaay up there.

I know a few of the folks on the list own
and use turbines of various flavors
and I have noticed a slight decline
in the cost of turbine outfits.

I found a low-end Turbinaire unit for $569
and a slighly better one for $697.

I might even find a used unit on Ebay... who knows ???

I have a large air compressor but after
doing a fair amount of research,
these turbine packages seem to be a
much better solution.

There is no concern of air quality,
no moisture issues, no junk in the air lines,
no concern of air quanity, large CFM numbers, etc,etc.

The overspray even
seems to be a non-problem with the HVLP technology.

Is this all hype or is this turbine the real answer
to getting a decent finish with a spray gun ???

I also assume a fairly stiff learning curve on
spraying.

I have a turbine HVLP spray unit. It leaves a beautiful finish, and
it's easy to use. But I only drag it out for really big finish
projects. It's so much trouble to clean up that I use wipe-on
finishes for smaller projects.

DonkeyHody
"We can't all be heros because somebody has to sit on the curb and
clap as they go by." - Will Rogers

Hmm... I found a well used unit a a flea market for $65US. Works great
(lucky me), but the cleanup couldn't be easier. Rinse out the cup, run
water through the tube thingy, and clean the little guide thingy that
screws on the front. Takes 5 minutes. I guess different ones are made
differently. I would definitely pay attention to what is needed to clean it.

Harvey

Hello,
There is two inherent problems with HVLP andfirst is the air is warm to hot
which is problematic because the heat makes the finish cure faster then if
the air was 70 degrees and 50 RH. The finish will not flow out like it
should. It will be acceptable but not as good as conventional air spray.
Some guy/gals will tell you that they get it to flow and the finish is good
or great, but more often then not for the average guy/gal the finish is okay
fair to middle compared with conventional. And when shooting water base it's
most likely going to need to be reduced to get it to spray and then this
problem really becomes apparent ( runs and sags or lots of coats) and when
spraying lacquer you need to dump retarder in it to stop the blush and dry
spray appearance.The second problem is that the cup is not pressurized and
it relies on suction to pull the material up and out of the cup the problem
is pressure is what makes the suction so when you reduce the pressure like
HVLP LP meaning low pressure you reduce suction. to compensate you need to
reduce the material and with some materials ( like water base ) to the point
of making crap out of it. There is a solution which is a HVLP CONVERSION and
I know you are concerned with cfm requirements but there are guns out there
that only use 5 or 6 cfm and have nozzle pressure of 21 psi. they have
pressurized cups and tanks and cost less then 500.00 bucks, as far as water
and crap in the lines that is easily remedy with a in line filter or dryer
filter on you compressor or both and with practice you will not believe the
finish, piano quality lacquer not a problem. Here is a link to homestead
finishing they sell Astro as well as others take a look at these and see if
you might rethink HVLP turbine.
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/asturo3.htm Give these people a
call they are a wealth of information. I am sure they will get you on the
right track. ( no I am not affiliated with them just passing on experience)

Donald Grudeski
President of Brush Boy Painting Company

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
One of my many goals in life is learning
how to finish a woodworking project
without making myself completely crazy.

In order to further this goal, learning
how to shoot a finish with a spray
gun ranks waaay up there.

I know a few of the folks on the list own
and use turbines of various flavors
and I have noticed a slight decline
in the cost of turbine outfits.

I found a low-end Turbinaire unit for $569
and a slighly better one for $697.

I might even find a used unit on Ebay... who knows ???

I have a large air compressor but after
doing a fair amount of research,
these turbine packages seem to be a
much better solution.

There is no concern of air quality,
no moisture issues, no junk in the air lines,
no concern of air quanity, large CFM numbers, etc,etc.

The overspray even
seems to be a non-problem with the HVLP technology.

Is this all hype or is this turbine the real answer
to getting a decent finish with a spray gun ???

I also assume a fairly stiff learning curve on
spraying.

wrote:

snipped, refer to his post.

On Mar 3, 3:06 pm, Pat Barber wrote:

I'm 'fair" with a can, but I'm getting better.
I see a lot of info on the Fuji systems.

I concur completely with Robert (nailshooter41)
I have that Fuji Q4 and have had great results.
I sprayed this recent project with it and my gold colored pick-up was less
than 20 feet away....no overspray on the truck.
http://tinyurl.com/3duj9t

Max

"Pat Barber" wrote:

In order to further this goal, learning
how to shoot a finish with a spray
gun ranks waaay up there.

If you can supply 15 SCFM, may have something of interest.

Contact me off list for details.

Lew

I know you are concerned with cfm requirements but there are guns out
there that only use 5 or 6 cfm and have nozzle pressure of 21 psi. they
have pressurized cups and tanks and cost less then 500.00 bucks

I made a mistake it is 21 psi at the gun inlet and 10 at the nozzle
Donald Grudeski
President Brush Boy Painting Company

On Mar 3, 4:51 pm, "Donald Grudeski" wrote:

Hello,
There is two inherent problems with HVLP andfirst is the air is warm to hot
which is problematic because the heat makes the finish cure faster then if
the air was 70 degrees and 50 RH. The finish will not flow out like it
should. It will be acceptable but not as good as conventional air spray.

SNIP

Wow. If I had all those problems, I wouldn't do my own finishing. I
think of all the cabinets, trim, entryways, etc., I have finished over
the years, and I haven't run into all the things you describe.

I miss high pressure application because of the ease of application.

But I like saving material.

I don't miss the drift. Check out Max's post above.

I had problems getting started with hvlp because I wanted to set the
gun up and use the system like high pressure. Its like learning any
other system, and investment in time and materials must be made. Once
ironed out, I never looked back.

Robert

On Mar 3, 5:01 pm, "Max" wrote:

I have that Fuji Q4 and have had great results.
I sprayed this recent project with it and my gold colored pick-up was less
than 20 feet away....no overspray on the truck.http://tinyurl.com/3duj9t

NICE looking router cabinet there, sir. Are you going in the cabinet
business or the finishing business?

I looked at the other photos. Good work all around.

Was that a Freud 17xx router I spied under that top? If so, do you
like using it?

Robert

wrote in message
...
On Mar 3, 3:06 pm, Pat Barber wrote:

I'm 'fair" with a can, but I'm getting better.

Personally, I still use rattle cans if the job calls for it. The only
two things I don't like about them is less than 30% material transfer
on target (which makes them cost much more than you might think!) and
the low quality nozzles they put on most cans.

There is very little info out there on spray
finishing, so it appears to be a D.I.Y. for
most folks.

Not at all. There is a lot of info online, and there is a lot of
information in print by different finishers. (Google "hvlp
technique", "hvlp application", "hvlp method", etc.) There are some
good softback books out there that appear from time to time in Barnes
and Noble, and at some of the used book stores.

You can also search this group through Google and find a lot of
information on technique, thinning protocols, material usage, etc.

I see a lot of info on the Fuji systems.

Excellent system. Like Barry, I have one of the Fuji "X"4 systems. I
have the Q4. I have used it a lot, and it is pretty bullet proof.
When I bought mine, the Mini Mites weren't being widely sold or I
might have bought that one as it is more affordable. I shoot stains,
dyes, enamels, polyurethanes, and lacquers with it. This unit will
put out a lot of cfms making sure you can apply just about any
coating, even more than other 4 stage units. I don't know how,
because something like 90% of all actual turbine assemblies for
serious hvlp systems are made by the same company.

The kicker is the support for the product. The link Barry posted is
where I got mine a couple of years ago, and Roger knows that product
frontwards and backwards, and you can call him anytime. He won't
teach you how to spray or apply, but he can tell you immediately if
your problems are in product or machine.

Turbinaire also seems to get a lot of press.

I almost bought the Turbinaire because of the gun. Well made,
balanced in the hand, and great fit and finish. It has is the only
true turbine hvlp gun that has a fully adjustable pattern (not just a
fixed detent position aircap) that works just like a high pressure
paint spray gun.

That is because it IS a converted paint spray gun. I went to a
Benjamin Moore sponsored event a couple of years ago to try this gun
out (OK... and eat some barbecue) along with some other guns. I
really liked the overall system, but Fuji won hands down on product
support and consumables affordability. You can buy everything from
Roger. And when I needed to speak to Roger, I found he always
answered his phone, one time while walking his dog.

I have this thing about support after the sale since I have been
drilled pretty hard a couple of times. After I got the info from
Turbinaire at the demo, I went around the corner and called customer
service on the phone. No one could answer my questions about
cfms, using a whip (extension) on the hose, or where to get the unit
fixed when it broke.

After I bought a Fuji system from Roger, I needed another aircap to
spray some really thin material. When I received a rusty aircap/needle
assembly from Roger, I was REALLY ****ed as I needed it to finish some
cabinets immediately after receipt. Roger used to be a finisher
himself, so he knew what was riding on the deal. He sent me a new
aircap via 2 day FedEx at his cost. All I had to do was to email him
a picture of the rust on the aircap. When I called make sure he got
the picture, he had already had the package picked up and it was on
its way.

I assume they are all "very" similar in
operation and costs.

Probably true. Some of the guns are really different though, and that
makes all the difference in the world on your final finish. You need
one that is comfortable in your hand, has a variety of AFFORDABLE
aircaps, filters, one way valves, etc. readily available for it. It
should be easy to break down and clean. Fit and finish is important
as well as the rougher finished guns tend to be harder to clean.

Depending on what kind of spraying you do and where you do it, you may
want a non bleeder or bleeder gun. I have both and prefer the non
bleeder, although the bleeder is just fine for 99% of my needs.

Good luck on your purchase.

Robert

Robert,

I picked up the Apollo 4 stage for a relative bargain, but haven't had the
time to fiddle with it yet. Do you have any experience with it? How does
it stack up against your fuji?

I'm going to follow up on a couple of your info suggestions. I really need
to get on the learning curve on this thing with the end goal of an
off-the-gun finish.

jc

"Max" wrote in message
t...

wrote:

snipped, refer to his post.

On Mar 3, 3:06 pm, Pat Barber wrote:

I'm 'fair" with a can, but I'm getting better.
I see a lot of info on the Fuji systems.

I concur completely with Robert (nailshooter41)
I have that Fuji Q4 and have had great results.
I sprayed this recent project with it and my gold colored pick-up was less
than 20 feet away....no overspray on the truck.
http://tinyurl.com/3duj9t

Max


Oh. My. God. You used pvc for dust collection?? Don't you know your shop
is going to EXPLODE?!?!?!

just kidding. Very nice job.

jc

On Mar 3, 6:46 pm, "joe" wrote:

Robert,

I picked up the Apollo 4 stage for a relative bargain, but haven't had the
time to fiddle with it yet. Do you have any experience with it? How does
it stack up against your fuji?

I liked the Apollo a lot. At the time though, I had it in my mind
that bleeder guns were not a good thing, and at that time that was all
Apollo had. The fit and finish were a little bit better than the same
on my Fuji, and they delivered an excellent finish. I was sure
though, that the bleeder function of the gun would get me in trouble.
I had this picture of spraying away and laying down a nice coat then
moving the gun to one side and kicking up some dust.

Apollo has their following and I think they are a top notch system. I
wouldn't concern myself with the air bleed aspect of the gun. Just be
careful where you point it! I was interested in them since they have
been around forever and always get really solid reviews.

All I did was demo one, though. I listened to the saleman's pitch and
he let me spray as much as I wanted to. It layed out a nice finish
with no problem at all, and I was spraying unthinned latex enamel
paint!

I haven't done a kitchen or anything like that. But my opinion is you
will probably love it. I might be able to help you if you are talking
about spraying paint, enamel, poly or lacquers, all solvent based
stuff.

For the water borne products, "ping" Barry and see if he is around.

I'm going to follow up on a couple of your info suggestions. I
really need
to get on the learning curve on this thing with the end goal of an
off-the-gun finish.

jc - that's where it's at. Speed, dash and accuracy win the day in
finishing. ALL of my finishing is 'off the gun' unless it is for me,
or they clients are paying to have it rubbed out.

Keep a good journal of what you are doing, including temps, material,
amount of air to the gun, etc. Like high pressure spraying, yo u will
need to thin from time to time, so don't forget to include that in
your notes. For me, one of the hardest things to do was to turn down
the pressure/air flow. You can literally shoot as much material and
make as much drift as a high pressure gun if you don't have it
adjusted right.

I finally got the hang of it by turning the pressure to the gun OFF.
Completely. Then I opened up the valve a half turn until it sprayed
the way I wanted (then I wrote that down) and started from there when
I sprayed that finish.

Feel free to post any questions here as there are a lot of experienced
finishers on this ng.

Robert

I bought a used turbine rig about three years ago and at time had done very
little spraying with a compressor gun. I use my turbine almost once a week
now and wonder how I lived without it. I find it easier to use than the
conventional gun compressor set up.


cm


"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
One of my many goals in life is learning
how to finish a woodworking project
without making myself completely crazy.

In order to further this goal, learning
how to shoot a finish with a spray
gun ranks waaay up there.

I know a few of the folks on the list own
and use turbines of various flavors
and I have noticed a slight decline
in the cost of turbine outfits.

I found a low-end Turbinaire unit for $569
and a slighly better one for $697.

I might even find a used unit on Ebay... who knows ???

I have a large air compressor but after
doing a fair amount of research,
these turbine packages seem to be a
much better solution.

There is no concern of air quality,
no moisture issues, no junk in the air lines,
no concern of air quanity, large CFM numbers, etc,etc.

The overspray even
seems to be a non-problem with the HVLP technology.

Is this all hype or is this turbine the real answer
to getting a decent finish with a spray gun ???

I also assume a fairly stiff learning curve on
spraying.

I spray a lot of waterbased acrylic. I have 10 Gallons sitting in my shop
waiting to be applied.....Yup 10 gallons. I have no problem with runs and
sags when I spray and I don't think three coats is "lots of coats"?

Just my experience.

cm


"Donald Grudeski" wrote in message
...
Hello,
There is two inherent problems with HVLP andfirst is the air is warm to
hot which is problematic because the heat makes the finish cure faster
then if the air was 70 degrees and 50 RH. The finish will not flow out
like it should. It will be acceptable but not as good as conventional air
spray. Some guy/gals will tell you that they get it to flow and the finish
is good or great, but more often then not for the average guy/gal the
finish is okay fair to middle compared with conventional. And when
shooting water base it's most likely going to need to be reduced to get it
to spray and then this problem really becomes apparent ( runs and sags
or lots of coats) and when spraying lacquer you need to dump retarder in
it to stop the blush and dry spray appearance.The second problem is that
the cup is not pressurized and it relies on suction to pull the material
up and out of the cup the problem is pressure is what makes the suction so
when you reduce the pressure like HVLP LP meaning low pressure you reduce
suction. to compensate you need to reduce the material and with some
materials ( like water base ) to the point of making crap out of it. There
is a solution which is a HVLP CONVERSION and I know you are concerned with
cfm requirements but there are guns out there that only use 5 or 6 cfm and
have nozzle pressure of 21 psi. they have pressurized cups and tanks and
cost less then 500.00 bucks, as far as water and crap in the lines that is
easily remedy with a in line filter or dryer filter on you compressor or
both and with practice you will not believe the finish, piano quality
lacquer not a problem. Here is a link to homestead finishing they sell
Astro as well as others take a look at these and see if you might rethink
HVLP turbine. http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/asturo3.htm Give
these people a call they are a wealth of information. I am sure they will
get you on the right track. ( no I am not affiliated with them just
passing on experience)

Donald Grudeski
President of Brush Boy Painting Company

"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
One of my many goals in life is learning
how to finish a woodworking project
without making myself completely crazy.

In order to further this goal, learning
how to shoot a finish with a spray
gun ranks waaay up there.

I know a few of the folks on the list own
and use turbines of various flavors
and I have noticed a slight decline
in the cost of turbine outfits.

I found a low-end Turbinaire unit for $569
and a slighly better one for $697.

I might even find a used unit on Ebay... who knows ???

I have a large air compressor but after
doing a fair amount of research,
these turbine packages seem to be a
much better solution.

There is no concern of air quality,
no moisture issues, no junk in the air lines,
no concern of air quanity, large CFM numbers, etc,etc.

The overspray even
seems to be a non-problem with the HVLP technology.

Is this all hype or is this turbine the real answer
to getting a decent finish with a spray gun ???

I also assume a fairly stiff learning curve on
spraying.

Feel free to post any questions here as there are a lot of experienced
finishers on this ng.

Robert

Will do, thanks again for the help (so far ;-) )

joe

wrote in message
...
On Mar 3, 5:01 pm, "Max" wrote:

I have that Fuji Q4 and have had great results.
I sprayed this recent project with it and my gold colored pick-up was
less
than 20 feet away....no overspray on the truck.http://tinyurl.com/3duj9t

NICE looking router cabinet there, sir. Are you going in the cabinet
business or the finishing business?

I looked at the other photos. Good work all around.

Was that a Freud 17xx router I spied under that top? If so, do you
like using it?

Robert

That's a Milwaukee 5625-20, 3 1/2 HP. It works grrreat!!. I also have 2
Hitachi M12V routers that I acquired well before the Milwaukee came on the
market.
I was pleased with them but the Milwaukee is even better. Now I can put a
panel raising bit in the Mil., a rail bit in one Hit. and a stile bit in the
other and really get after it on cabinet doors without changing bits.

Max

"joe" wrote in message
news

"Max" wrote in message
t...

wrote:

snipped, refer to his post.

On Mar 3, 3:06 pm, Pat Barber wrote:

I'm 'fair" with a can, but I'm getting better.
I see a lot of info on the Fuji systems.

I concur completely with Robert (nailshooter41)
I have that Fuji Q4 and have had great results.
I sprayed this recent project with it and my gold colored pick-up was
less than 20 feet away....no overspray on the truck.
http://tinyurl.com/3duj9t

Max


Oh. My. God. You used pvc for dust collection?? Don't you know your shop
is going to EXPLODE?!?!?!

just kidding. Very nice job.

jc

Thank you, Sir.

If I ever have an EXPLOSION, I will be one embarrassed dude. I'm a retired
Deputy Fire Chief.

Max

"Max" wrote in message
et...

wrote in message
...
On Mar 3, 5:01 pm, "Max" wrote:

I have that Fuji Q4 and have had great results.
I sprayed this recent project with it and my gold colored pick-up was
less
than 20 feet away....no overspray on the truck.http://tinyurl.com/3duj9t

NICE looking router cabinet there, sir. Are you going in the cabinet
business or the finishing business?

I looked at the other photos. Good work all around.

Was that a Freud 17xx router I spied under that top? If so, do you
like using it?

Robert

That's a Milwaukee 5625-20, 3 1/2 HP. It works grrreat!!. I also have 2
Hitachi M12V routers that I acquired well before the Milwaukee came on the
market.
I was pleased with them but the Milwaukee is even better. Now I can put a
panel raising bit in the Mil., a rail bit in one Hit. and a stile bit in
the other and really get after it on cabinet doors without changing bits.

Max
Max, have you tried the Hitachi M12V2? Or were both of yours M12V's?

Wondering if I should pick up the revamped version or something else.

jc

On Mar 3, 7:25 pm, "CM" wrote:

I spray a lot of waterbased acrylic. I have 10 Gallons sitting in my shop
waiting to be applied.....Yup 10 gallons. I have no problem with runs and
sags when I spray and I don't think three coats is "lots of coats"?

Just my experience.

While I don't spray water based clear coats with my hvlp (latex paint
goes through the airless), I spray a fair amount of conversion
lacquers.

I am with you. 3 coats is nothing. At a three mil wet layer per
coat, it takes a minimum of three coats to get a final thickness of 3
mil which is what just about all manufacturers recommend. Spraying
CAB lacquers, a having good spraying conditions, you should be able to
put on multiple coats easily in a day without problems.

Shooting MLC Ultrastar (water borne), I know BARRY has noted multiple
coats in a day as his norm.

But, we all have different experiences.

Robert

"joe" wrote

Max, have you tried the Hitachi M12V2? Or were both of yours M12V's?

Wondering if I should pick up the revamped version or something else.

jc

Those Hitachis are both the old style. I have heard/read
some...uh.....unkind comments about the new style but I don't have any first
hand experience with them.
I can't say enough about that Milwaukee though. It has a "T" handle that
allows height adjustment through the top of the table. No need for a
"router lifter".
It has power to spare. "2 wrench" collet. (some people don't care for that
but I think it's easier to squeeze 2 wrenches together to tighten or loosen
the collet instead of holding a shaft lock with one hand and a wrench in the
other)

Max

On Mar 3, 10:50*pm, "Max" wrote:

I can't say enough about that Milwaukee though. *It has a *"T" handle that
allows height adjustment through the top of the table. *No need for a
"router lifter".
It has power to spare. "2 wrench" collet. *(some people don't care for that
but I think it's easier to squeeze 2 wrenches together to tighten or loosen
the collet instead of holding a shaft lock with one hand and a wrench in the
other)


Nothing to talk about. Those Milwaukees rule!
I much prefer the two-wrench set-up also.

On Mar 3, 7:12 pm, "CM" wrote:
I bought a used turbine rig about three years ago and at time had done very
little spraying with a compressor gun. I use my turbine almost once a week
now and wonder how I lived without it. I find it easier to use than the
conventional gun compressor set up.

I think the thing I like the best about the hvlp turbine is its
predictability. Once you get comfortable with it, it is much easier
to work with for a range of finishes than a high pressure sprayer.

No worries about driers, in line filters, contaminates, etc. as with
high pressure. And the gun is no harder to clean than any other. But
the best part of course is the lack of overspray. It is rare for the
overspray to travel more than a few feet, and the atomized haze
doesn't hang in the air for 30 minutes waiting to land on something.

I sprayed out some bathroom and kitchen cabinets inside a house we
remodeled, in the client's garage and all we did was hang some plastic
up about 4 feet from the ground. No problems there and no complaints
from the client.

When it is a real tear out remodel of mine or one of my amigos, I
don't have any problems throwing a piece of plastic over sawhorses and
spraying in a living room or den. The over spray pretty much just
falls to the ground.

It is such a huge thing to not have to tape off a whole house,
evacuate the living areas for hours while the drift settles, and to be
able to be more flexible where you can actually spray. If I had known
it worked this well I would have gotten on it earlier, regardless of
the savings in material. To me, that's just icing on the cake.

Robert

Pat Barber wrote:


I assume they are all "very" similar in
operation and costs.

I think all of them use the same Ametek Lamb turbine.

I learned some basic things from this book, like spraying into my own
overspray:
http://www.amazon.com/Spray-Finishing-Other-Techniques-Woodworking/dp/1561588296/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

My ML Campbell dealer gave me a printed copy of this:
http://www.mlcampbell.com/secured/woodfinishprobs.pdf

Jewitt has some tips in his general finishing books. Roger Phelps has
some video on the Phelps site. I've learned lots from Robert
(nailshooter) and Mike Marlow, right on this forum.

The most difficult part for me was recognizing the different problems.
After that, the Campbell document is a great resource to have handy.

Even with spraying, some finishes need a light rub out. There are some
differences in technique, depending on the product in use. For
instance, some finishes need defects to dry before repair, but you can
often wipe drips away with lacquer on the spot. Some finishes like a
"tack coat", others like full, wet coats. When in doubt, _let the
finish dry_, then troubleshoot.

Donald Grudeski wrote:
Hello,
There is two inherent problems with HVLP andfirst is the air is warm to hot
which is problematic because the heat makes the finish cure faster then if
the air was 70 degrees and 50 RH. The finish will not flow out like it
should.

Warm air is great with water base lacquer. The simple way to cool the
air when warming is a problem is to add more hose. Shutting the turbine
down when not in use (I use a dust collector remote) also helps.

And when shooting water base it's
most likely going to need to be reduced to get it to spray and then this
problem really becomes apparent ( runs and sags or lots of coats) and when
spraying lacquer you need to dump retarder in it to stop the blush and dry
spray appearance.

Not true at all, with my Fuji Q4, ML Cambell Ultrastar and ML Campbell
NC Lacquer. I spray Ultrastar right from the can.


The second problem is that the cup is not pressurized and
it relies on suction to pull the material up and out of the cup the problem
is pressure is what makes the suction so when you reduce the pressure like
HVLP LP meaning low pressure you reduce suction.

Not true on my Fuji siphon gun, it has a pressure line to the cup.
Anybody who has opened the cup at the wrong time knows full well just
how well it's pressurized! G I also have a 2 quart pressure pot
that runs from a standard compressor.

For my gravity feed gun, I go up a tip size.

Are you sure you've used a good HVLP?

wrote:

Shooting MLC Ultrastar (water borne), I know BARRY has noted multiple
coats in a day as his norm.

Three coats (1 sealer, 2 top) in one day, scuffed with 400 in between,
in Connecticut weather, sometimes in 1/2+ day. I can sand 45-60 minutes
after spraying.

However, I won't stack parts until the next day. DAMHIKT.

"Robatoy" wrote ...
On Mar 3, 10:50 pm, "Max" wrote:

I can't say enough about that Milwaukee though. It has a "T" handle that
allows height adjustment through the top of the table. No need for a
"router lifter".
It has power to spare. "2 wrench" collet. (some people don't care for that
but I think it's easier to squeeze 2 wrenches together to tighten or
loosen
the collet instead of holding a shaft lock with one hand and a wrench in
the
other)


Nothing to talk about. Those Milwaukees rule!
I much prefer the two-wrench set-up also.

The only thing I don't like about the little Bosch Colt is the shaft lock
.... the air turns blue every time I use it. All my other routers use two
wrenches.

(This thread has me dreaming about upgrading my HVLP ...)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:

The only thing I don't like about the little Bosch Colt is the shaft lock
... the air turns blue every time I use it. All my other routers use two
wrenches.

My older Bosch laminate trimmer also has a shaft lock. I definitely
prefer two wrenches.

On Mar 4, 6:11 am, B A R R Y wrote:

*SNIP* of good information

Not true at all, with my Fuji Q4, ML Cambell Ultrastar and ML Campbell
NC Lacquer. I spray Ultrastar right from the can.

When I demoed the Turbinaire unit, I almost bit on the spot as the guy
opened a quart of really thick latex enamel in front of me, let me
stir it to make sure there was no friggin' in the riggin', and he
poured some directly in the cup and let me spray.

That almost sold me as I thought "surely no other system can do
that". But in truth I think most 4 stage systems from the big boys
will, and some of the 3 stage machines will do that, too.

I thin because of my shooting style and climate. If it is 65 - 70
degrees and about 50% relative humidity, I don't thin or mix anything
with the clear coat. That actual day usually happens about twice a
year around here.

Are you sure you've used a good HVLP?

LOL. You are definitely sturdier than I am. When I read that post
there were so many things that were just completely wrong I deleted my
original response. You just said it best and I think you hit the nail
square on the head.

Robert

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
...
Swingman wrote:

The only thing I don't like about the little Bosch Colt is the shaft lock
... the air turns blue every time I use it. All my other routers use two
wrenches.

My older Bosch laminate trimmer also has a shaft lock. I definitely
prefer two wrenches.

is that the bosch where you stick one end of one wrench in the top of the
housing to lock the shaft? I have that one and I think I prefer it to a
'true' shaft lock. It's still two wrenches, just not two wrenches on the
collet. Unfortunately, the plastic base on it cracked and getting it
replaced is going to be almost as expensive as replacing the router :-(

jc

This was the "only" negative comment I could find
about hvlp.

I realize nobody who has ever bought
a unit is likely to admit a problem,
but most of the folks that are making
comments have been around this group for a while.

I just got to decide which flavor at this
point.

I am convinced it will be a good thing.


wrote:

Are you sure you've used a good HVLP?


LOL. You are definitely sturdier than I am. When I read that post
there were so many things that were just completely wrong I deleted my
original response. You just said it best and I think you hit the nail
square on the head.

Robert

Pat Barber wrote:

I realize nobody who has ever bought
a unit is likely to admit a problem,

Please don't put me in that bucket.

I'm more than happy to pan anything that doesn't meet my expectations,
regardless of what I paid for it. I don't find sharing my negative
experiences a with product or service as a reflection on myself. If I
dropped $700 on spray equipment and I didn't get total satisfaction,
this group would be the first to know. G

On Mar 4, 11:42 am, B A R R Y wrote:
Pat Barber wrote:

I realize nobody who has ever bought
a unit is likely to admit a problem,

Please don't put me in that bucket.

Or me. I will scream like a mashed cat when I am screwed by a tool
maker. I don't care what it is. And the more money I spend, the
louder I will be.

This is one of the great aspects of an unmoderated, unsupported free-
for-all atmosphere. You can tell it like it is, and while you may
hurt some feelings you can certainly relate your experiences without
worrying about having your post deleted or edited.

With there only being a few large tool makers anymore that have tools
readily available, I think it is important to share what you find out
when you make a purchase. It saves the rest of us time, effort, money
and heartburn.

I don't know of any one tool maker (OK, Festool guys, maybe
yours ;^) calm down...) that consistently makes great tools
manufactured to exacting standards across their entire product line.

Sharing information is without doubt the best part of the internet.

Robert

Yep... you do seem to "voice" your concerns
with little regard to what the tool makers
do or say. The open discussion has been the
main reason I have hung out here for a right
good while.

I'm from the south and we have more "saying"
than carter has liver pills, but I don't
recall ever hearing the "mashed cat" version.

Excellent.


wrote:

Or me. I will scream like a mashed cat when I am screwed by a tool
maker. I don't care what it is. And the more money I spend, the
louder I will be.

I have one of the smallest and oldest turbines out there which I purchased
used. The turbine I bought was manufactured in 1984. I am sure a bigger
turbine or new gun technology might be even better, but I won't find out
until mine finally dies. Until then I will enjoy the ease of spraying with
my old TP turbine http://tinyurl.com/25vr5h .

You will not regret your purchase.

cm


"Pat Barber" wrote in message
...
Yep... you do seem to "voice" your concerns
with little regard to what the tool makers
do or say. The open discussion has been the
main reason I have hung out here for a right
good while.

I'm from the south and we have more "saying"
than carter has liver pills, but I don't
recall ever hearing the "mashed cat" version.

Excellent.


wrote:

Or me. I will scream like a mashed cat when I am screwed by a tool
maker. I don't care what it is. And the more money I spend, the
louder I will be.