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#1
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Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before
(I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more specific and up-to-date input. I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I have read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess boards, boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools. I have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools. Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a hobby I go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try to go quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw (unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If I go with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of money for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just for production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and better suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost the same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect. Any advice would be appreciated. |
#2
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Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument otherwise accepted. You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing, you will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and concentrate on the creation. Guaranteed .... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Marc" wrote in message same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect. Any advice would be appreciated. |
#3
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That, in a nutshell, sums up about two-zillion Google posts. But now,
you'll get to read the other side of the story.. Let the games begin.... Bob S. PS - I own a cabinet saw "Swingman" wrote in message news.com... Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument otherwise accepted. You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing, you will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and concentrate on the creation. Guaranteed .... |
#4
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Well, you have money left over. Get a rebuilt Unisaw w/Unifence,
mobile base and tenon devie ($100). Mighty-T Track for the Unifernce , feather boards,and you are in business. You will have no problem at all if you will buy and pick-up instead of deliver. I load /unload everything myself which helps. A cabinet saw is : 1) More powerful 2) More steady, sturdier 3) Cleaner 4) Commands respect. You will find that you can put a teneon jig on a cabinet saw and not worry about it becoming unbalanced. It is also easier to work with and I don't know how to explain that one. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc" wrote: Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before (I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more specific and up-to-date input. I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I have read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess boards, boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools. I have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools. Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a hobby I go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try to go quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw (unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If I go with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of money for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just for production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and better suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost the same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect. Any advice would be appreciated. |
#5
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![]() "Marc" wrote in message It boils down to the question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference. If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only once did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took me longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference. Ed |
#6
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![]() "Marc" wrote in message igy.com... Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before (I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more specific and up-to-date input. If you've got the room, money and 220V - then go for a cabinet saw. Pragmatically speaking, you'll never long for more (unless you're into industrial gear). If you "settle" for a contractor saw, there's a chance you'll be content and a good chance you'll wish you'd had spent the extra money. Like you - I stick a "cheap" toe in the water when I start a new hobby. I too blew $200 on the Craftsman bench saw. After becoming convinced that I enjoyed it, I went "hybrid" (more contractor than cabinet) because I didn't have the room and didn't have 220V. I'd start working in Excel and seeing how much you can get for your $2000 with a cabinet saw. The other decision you'll want to make early is whether you go for 52" rails or 30". That'll affect your portable base investment too. These things seem to hold their value, fairly well. I take solace knowing that the buck I invest in quality tools means (1) my children, should they show an interest, will have them and (2) I could sell them and recoup enough of my initial outlay to take the sting away. |
#7
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Ditto, Go For It
"Swingman" wrote in message news.com... Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument otherwise accepted. You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing, you will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and concentrate on the creation. Guaranteed .... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Marc" wrote in message same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect. Any advice would be appreciated. |
#8
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Marc wrote:
Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your advice before I make an expensive mistake. If I had the space and that budget, I'd consider two contractor saws. Ideally one left tilt and the other right tilt. No doubt one of them would have the dado set installed more or less permanently. I'd use my dado a LOT more if it wasn't for the time to change blades, and the fact "normal" TS rips and crosscuts can't be done when my TS has the dado in. -- Mark |
#9
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There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw.
A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality contractor saws than cabinet saws. |
#10
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Thanks, good advice I don't want to look back I'm bad about looking back
and wondering what if. "Swingman" wrote in message news.com... Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument otherwise accepted. You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing, you will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and concentrate on the creation. Guaranteed .... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Marc" wrote in message same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect. Any advice would be appreciated. |
#11
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Don't contractor saws and cabinet saws take up about the same amount of
space? "mttt" wrote in message ... "Marc" wrote in message igy.com... Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before (I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more specific and up-to-date input. .................. Like you - I stick a "cheap" toe in the water when I start a new hobby. I too blew $200 on the Craftsman bench saw. After becoming convinced that I enjoyed it, I went "hybrid" (more contractor than cabinet) because I didn't have the room and didn't have 220V. .................. |
#12
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Buy the best you can afford and have fun. Life is too short not to have
fun. Good tools are a delight to use and, in the right hands, make projects more enjoyable. I have a Dela Unisaw. My only regret is not having a garage big enough. |
#13
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:59:43 +0000, Marc wrote:
Don't contractor saws and cabinet saws take up about the same amount of space? Contractor saws take up more space than cabinet saws 'cause of the motor hanging out the back. The DeWalt and Jet hybrids are contractor type saws with the motor inside the frame which makes for a cabinet saw footprint. |
#14
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![]() "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "Marc" wrote in message It boils down to the question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference. If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only once did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took me longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference. Ed My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state.... -Jack |
#15
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Did that come out like you wanted?
-- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Phisherman" wrote in message Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality contractor saws than cabinet saws. |
#16
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Take a look at the General from Canada... I own a Unisaw, but I would give
the _Canadian_ made General a hard look if I had to buy again. http://www.kmstools.com/scripts/products/product.php?GEN-350T50M2M&2%3C-%3E172%3C-%3E166-175 Just to give you a look at it. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Marc" wrote in message If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it would be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a cabinet saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case (deltax or powermatic) |
#17
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yep, I love the "life is too short" argument. Only problem is I've over
used it a bit. "Charles" wrote in message news ![]() Buy the best you can afford and have fun. Life is too short not to have fun. Good tools are a delight to use and, in the right hands, make projects more enjoyable. I have a Dela Unisaw. My only regret is not having a garage big enough. |
#18
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If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it would
be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a cabinet saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case (deltax or powermatic) "JackD" wrote in message ... "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "Marc" wrote in message It boils down to the question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference. If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only once did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took me longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference. Ed My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state.... -Jack |
#19
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What contractor saws are better quality than which cabinet saws? Are you
refering to grizzly or craftsman? I've been told they are pretty high quality overall except for the fence, and they decent comparisons with other cabinet saws in "wood" magazine (I think it was wood). "Phisherman" wrote in message ... There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw. A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality contractor saws than cabinet saws. |
#20
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I read a comparison and general rated very high, but I can't find much
information on general. Does the manufacture have a website? Is there a dealer in the dallas-ft worth area? "Swingman" wrote in message news.com... Take a look at the General from Canada... I own a Unisaw, but I would give the _Canadian_ made General a hard look if I had to buy again. http://www.kmstools.com/scripts/products/product.php?GEN-350T50M2M&2%3C-%3E172%3C-%3E166-175 Just to give you a look at it. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Marc" wrote in message If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it would be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a cabinet saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case (deltax or powermatic) |
#21
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In article . com,
tome says... I read a comparison and general rated very high, but I can't find much information on general. Does the manufacture have a website? http://www.general.ca/ CharlesJ -- ================================================== ====================== Charles Jones | Works at HP, | email: Hewlett-Packard | doesn't speak | ICQ: 29610755 Loveland, Colorado | for HP | AIM: LovelandCharles USA | |Jabber: |
#22
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
wrote: I plan to use the saw for a lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it will only be in my spare time and weekends. I would never suggest that anyone buy below their WANTS because we all have something we go "over the top" on. I certainly do-- read the electrical set-up below my signature. ; Having said that, my opinion is: get a top-of-the-line contractor's saw. Why? 1.) While it's true that one should avoid the "pretend" table saws that are available for under $200 at Sears, Home Depot and, (for all I know), Toys-BackwardsR-Us, it's equally true that there are a lot more cabinet saws in hobbyist's shops than there are cabinet-saw quality hobbyists using them. 2.) If, as you state, precision and a perfect fit are your goals as a beginner, then you will achieve them faster and continue reaching them longer by buying the best contractor saw you can afford and putting the other 800 to 1000 dollars into a week's worth of education at a good woodworking school. It isn't the brush that paints the picture, it's the artist. Studying with people who really know their craft is priceless. 3.) We-- (Americans)-- put too much emphasis on tablesaws, anyway. An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw as their weapon of choice. Consider that with the exception of dadoing, everything you do on a table saw is going to be only the first step in the overall process of dimensioning lumber. Other machinery or hand tools are going to be required to dress out what you cut. It's in those stages that you achieve the precision you're looking for. (Cutting plywood doesn't qualify here, either. Precision plywood cutting for panels, backs and bottoms is dependent on a quality fence and proper feeding technique, not a "quality" cabinet saw.) 4.) Should you decide, in the future that you just can't get through a project without cutting lotso 3" thick Maple and you just gotta have more horseys, you'll be glad to have a second saw to use as a dedicated Dado machine. Think of how cool you'll be in your neighborhood as the only guy with not one, but two tablesaws. 5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages, markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.? Got Money? tm Michael Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those. Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout doit. 12X16 Building materials: $2500 All the above electrical capacity: $300 and counting. The ability to plug something in right HERE, and not have to settle for "over there": Priceless. ![]() |
#23
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Between High School and the end of my college years I worked for a sign
shop where I eventually got to regularly use an enormous 14" table (cabinet) saw. It was 5HP with 5 belt drive. That was my first experience using table saws. Graduated from college, bought a house, then a table saw. I got the then Rockwell contractors saw (10" open base 1.5 HP motor) That was 20 years ago. 3 months ago I finally got a cabinet saw, a Delta Unisaw. The difference between the two is quite noticeable. It is a pleasure to use and it was well worth the investment to me. I did quite a bit of wood working over those 20 years with the contractors saw. I expect that the quality of my work might improve a little with the new saw, but not much. I never regretted getting the Rockwell since it was all I could afford at the time. It has served me quite well. |
#24
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"Michael Baglio
Michael Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those. Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout doit. How many circuit breakers? Code has a limit on the number of outlets allowed on a breaker. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply) |
#25
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:47:22 GMT, Nova
wrote: Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those. Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout doit. How many circuit breakers? Code has a limit on the number of outlets allowed on a breaker. Heh... whatever my electrician friend tells me I need, Jack. That'll be the next trip to sLowe's. I haven't done any of this shop building without some serious adult supervision. ; (Btw, I recall several months ago you responding to a request of mine for general pricing guidelines on shop building materials. Iirc, you quoted a friend's shop, recently built. That post really gave me a lot of "go-for-it" that I didn't have previously. So, if I didn't thank you, thanks. Youdaman.) Michael |
#26
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It's a good point and one I have considered a lot. Probably the reason I am
asking a group so I can separate and distinguish my wants from my needs. If all I have is a shop with a great table saw, I'm not going to be able to do much. There will be more funds in the near future but what will I do until then? I have some nice hand tools, Japanese chisels, LN 4 1/2 plane, and a few other items. but I am using a router table for a jointer which is not very suitable. I need some better squares and clamps etc. not to mention WOOD, it's not cheap. On the other hand maybe it is better to get this one big item out-of-the-way so I never have to consider it again, and slowly build a shop of only quality items over time. I've heard of people subsituting a quality band-saw and using it for a table-saw duty, that is what laguana seems to suggest on their band saw video. But I don't see how that could work, small table, no dado, table tilts instead of blade, lateral limitation by yoke of band saw, I just don't see that working out. It's a tough question, and it makes me realize how expensive this hobby is. Thanks for your input. Marc "Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com" mbaglioNOSPAM wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc" wrote: ...... 5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages, markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.? Got Money? tm ....... |
#27
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"Michael Baglio
(Btw, I recall several months ago you responding to a request of mine for general pricing guidelines on shop building materials. Iirc, you quoted a friend's shop, recently built. That post really gave me a lot of "go-for-it" that I didn't have previously. So, if I didn't thank you, thanks. Youdaman.) Your welcome and I'm glad the information I provided helped. The friend I mentioned has been using that building for about a year. He's already talking about bumping it out. There's a lot to be said for "post and beam" construction. -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply) |
#28
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Buy used machinery.
UA100 |
#29
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On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio wrote:
My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience. An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw as their weapon of choice. While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks overemphasize the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life. Even router tables are made to look more like a TS than a router. Why should a RT fence be parallel to the edge of the table? The router is not a linear device like a TS - the fence can go at _any_ angle! Consider that with the exception of dadoing, This could be done with a router. And a decent router is comparable in cost to a decent dado blade kit for a TS. I got a bandsaw, based on my needs (mostly boatbuilding based). I can do most things that I can think of with this except cut really wide pieces of wood (like sheets of plywood/MDf/etc). Crosscuts I do with a hand saw. I also was infuenced by the FWW 1st annual Tools&Shops issue, where Gary Rogowski suggests that your first power tool should be a BS (unless your needs are cutting wide chunks of wood). It seems to me that a lot of folks could make good use of a BS and RT to do more than a TS could. I can cut thru 6" of wood more easily than with a TS - that would require me to cut, flip over and cut again. The BS is a substitute for a scroll saw, as long as curves aren't too tight. The router will allow plunge cut dadoes and grooves rather than the continuous versions that most TS users get. Much neater than having a groove sticking out the end of a hunk of wood. If I needed to cut plywood/MDF/etc (in the short term given my _very_ limited budget), I'd probably go for a decent straightedge and circ saw and use the BS for everything once the big sheets are down to size. But that would suit my needs, possibly not many others'. Anyway, if you need a TS, it's an excellent tool. But I wonder if some folks focus on the TS too much. Mike |
#30
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![]() "Michael Daly" wrote in message .cable.rogers.com... On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio wrote: My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience. An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw as their weapon of choice. While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks overemphasize the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life. Even router tables are made to look more like a TS than a router. Why should a RT fence be parallel to the edge of the table? The router is not a linear device like a TS - the fence can go at _any_ angle! Consider that with the exception of dadoing, This could be done with a router. And a decent router is comparable in cost to a decent dado blade kit for a TS. I got a bandsaw, based on my needs (mostly boatbuilding based). I can do most things that I can think of with this except cut really wide pieces of wood (like sheets of plywood/MDf/etc). Crosscuts I do with a hand saw. I also was infuenced by the FWW 1st annual Tools&Shops issue, where Gary Rogowski suggests that your first power tool should be a BS (unless your needs are cutting wide chunks of wood). It seems to me that a lot of folks could make good use of a BS and RT to do more than a TS could. I can cut thru 6" of wood more easily than with a TS - that would require me to cut, flip over and cut again. The BS is a substitute for a scroll saw, as long as curves aren't too tight. The router will allow plunge cut dadoes and grooves rather than the continuous versions that most TS users get. Much neater than having a groove sticking out the end of a hunk of wood. If I needed to cut plywood/MDF/etc (in the short term given my _very_ limited budget), I'd probably go for a decent straightedge and circ saw and use the BS for everything once the big sheets are down to size. But that would suit my needs, possibly not many others'. Anyway, if you need a TS, it's an excellent tool. But I wonder if some folks focus on the TS too much. Mike I find it quite useful for ripping wood precisely. The blade doesn't wander like it would on a bandsaw. Ripping at an angle can be hairy on a bandsaw, but on a TS it is no problem because the work stays flat and the blade tilts. It can also make bigger cross-cuts than I can make with a chop saw. Perhaps it is just that I have never worked with a really good bandsaw, but I find that cutting with a tablesaw is just more accurate due to the stiffer blade. -Jack |
#31
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You can do excellent woodworking without a good cabinet saw, but after you
own a good cabinet saw, you wonder _why_ you would want to. -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 9/21/03 "Michael Daly" wrote in message On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio wrote: My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience. An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw as their weapon of choice. While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks overemphasize the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life. |
#32
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Marc wrote:
It boils down to the question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? IMO, it boils down to different questions: Are you good enough to work around the weakness of the tool? Or will you get angry and blame the tool for your failures? Look at the 'Desk' project on this site: http://home.cogeco.ca/~akropinski/Gallery.htm It's gorgeous! Then look at his workshop. He's got a Craftsman table saw. Anybody who says you can't build nice stuff with middle-of-the-road tools is a sad excuse for a woodworker. It's just a matter of how much YOU want to spend on tools ($$$) and how much time/effort YOU want to spend working around the weaknesses of your tools. Bottom line: The craftsman makes the furniture...the tools are just along for the ride. -- ************************************ Chris Merrill (remove the ZZZ to contact me) ************************************ |
#33
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Never tell SWMBO that you can build quality stuff with "middle of the
road" tools. ![]() dave Chris Merrill wrote: Marc wrote: It boils down to the question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? IMO, it boils down to different questions: Are you good enough to work around the weakness of the tool? Or will you get angry and blame the tool for your failures? Look at the 'Desk' project on this site: http://home.cogeco.ca/~akropinski/Gallery.htm It's gorgeous! Then look at his workshop. He's got a Craftsman table saw. Anybody who says you can't build nice stuff with middle-of-the-road tools is a sad excuse for a woodworker. It's just a matter of how much YOU want to spend on tools ($$$) and how much time/effort YOU want to spend working around the weaknesses of your tools. Bottom line: The craftsman makes the furniture...the tools are just along for the ride. |
#34
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shoulda known that was comin.......;-)
Bob S. "Unisaw A100" wrote in message ... Buy used machinery. UA100 |
#35
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I envision Keith under the belly of some rusty monster so often, I bet
he gets a tetnus shot every six months to protect himself. dave Bob S. wrote: shoulda known that was comin.......;-) Bob S. "Unisaw A100" wrote in message ... Buy used machinery. UA100 |
#36
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I envision Keith under the belly of some rusty monster so often, I bet
he gets a tetanus shot every six months to protect himself. dave Bob S. wrote: shoulda known that was comin.......;-) Bob S. "Unisaw A100" wrote in message ... Buy used machinery. UA100 |
#37
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In article ,
Michael Baglio mbaglioNOSPAM wrote: Michael Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those. Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout doit. I think I've got you beat for 'power density', at least on the 110 side. In my _kitchen_, I've got *THIRTY* 110 outlets (1 quad for every 3' of counter, plus a duplex for (A) the refrigerator, (b) the freezer, (c) motorized partition to the DR. Only 1 220v though, for the stove. But, we're talking 88 sq ft 'gross', and only about 30 sq ft 'open' after appliances and counters. (I've got ten separate circuits feeding only the kitchen. there's only 8 for the _rest_ of the condo.) The ability to plug something in right HERE, and not have to settle for "over there": Priceless. ![]() ABSOLUTELY!!! |
#38
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I'd rather have a Powermatic contractor tablesaw than a Craftsman
cabinet saw. Another point to make it more confusing, there are "hybrid saws" that have properties of both contractor and cabinet. I'd recommend the Grizzly G1023S which is an icredible buy at $800 and close to the cost of a Powermatic 64A which is a very good contractor saw. On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:05:05 GMT, "Marc" wrote: What contractor saws are better quality than which cabinet saws? Are you refering to grizzly or craftsman? I've been told they are pretty high quality overall except for the fence, and they decent comparisons with other cabinet saws in "wood" magazine (I think it was wood). "Phisherman" wrote in message .. . There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw. A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality contractor saws than cabinet saws. |
#39
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You know, I've debated this issue myself. And I'm almost to the conclusion
that I can do any heavy ripping on my bandsaw anyway. Would I really need a 3 HP+ motor on a table saw since I'd mostly be using it for finish quality cuts and joints ? My 1.5 HP Delta would take care of any rips up to 6" thick, with no risk of burning. All I'd have to do is plane it afterwards, and some have to do that to wood cut on their table saws anyway. I still love the idea of buying myself a nice cabinet, but I'm thinking as far as a table saw goes, a beefy contractor (+two iron wings) would give me enough stability and power to do all I will need. I'm not terribly satisfied with the state of table saws and how they work right now either. Its counterintuitive to think I can actually use it without being injured or at least frightened to the point of soiling myself. -- The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better. So I installed it on Linux... "JackD" wrote in message ... "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message ... "Marc" wrote in message It boils down to the question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference. If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only once did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took me longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference. Ed My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state.... -Jack |
#40
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![]() Can someone explain to me the fascination with dado blades on table saws? I use a router for all dados (it SEEMS easier). All woodworkers have at least one router, so why do people use table saws for dados ? "Marc" wrote in message igy.com... It's a good point and one I have considered a lot. Probably the reason I am asking a group so I can separate and distinguish my wants from my needs. If all I have is a shop with a great table saw, I'm not going to be able to do much. There will be more funds in the near future but what will I do until then? I have some nice hand tools, Japanese chisels, LN 4 1/2 plane, and a few other items. but I am using a router table for a jointer which is not very suitable. I need some better squares and clamps etc. not to mention WOOD, it's not cheap. On the other hand maybe it is better to get this one big item out-of-the-way so I never have to consider it again, and slowly build a shop of only quality items over time. I've heard of people subsituting a quality band-saw and using it for a table-saw duty, that is what laguana seems to suggest on their band saw video. But I don't see how that could work, small table, no dado, table tilts instead of blade, lateral limitation by yoke of band saw, I just don't see that working out. It's a tough question, and it makes me realize how expensive this hobby is. Thanks for your input. Marc "Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com" mbaglioNOSPAM wrote in message ... On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc" wrote: ..... 5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages, markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.? Got Money? tm ...... |
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