Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before
(I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
specific and up-to-date input.

I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I have
read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess boards,
boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools. I
have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools.
Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a hobby I
go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try to go
quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw
(unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If I go
with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of money
for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a
situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just for
production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and better
suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a
grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost the
same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good
cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a
220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your
advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument
otherwise accepted.

You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you
will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing, you
will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind
that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and
concentrate on the creation.

Guaranteed ....

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"Marc" wrote in message

same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good
cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a
220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your
advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
Any advice would be appreciated.

That, in a nutshell, sums up about two-zillion Google posts. But now,
you'll get to read the other side of the story..

Let the games begin....

Bob S.

PS - I own a cabinet saw

"Swingman" wrote in message
news.com...
Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument
otherwise accepted.

You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you
will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing,
you
will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind
that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and
concentrate on the creation.

Guaranteed ....

Well, you have money left over. Get a rebuilt Unisaw w/Unifence,
mobile base and tenon devie ($100). Mighty-T Track for the Unifernce ,
feather boards,and you are in business. You will have no problem at
all if you will buy and pick-up instead of deliver. I load /unload
everything myself which helps. A cabinet saw is :
1) More powerful
2) More steady, sturdier
3) Cleaner
4) Commands respect.
You will find that you can put a teneon jig on a cabinet saw and not
worry about it becoming unbalanced. It is also easier to work with and
I don't know how to explain that one.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
wrote:

Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before
(I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
specific and up-to-date input.

I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I have
read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess boards,
boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools. I
have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools.
Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a hobby I
go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try to go
quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw
(unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If I go
with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of money
for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a
situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just for
production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and better
suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a
grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost the
same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good
cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a
220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your
advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
Any advice would be appreciated.

"Marc" wrote in message

It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?


Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference.

If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a
difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the
contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up
front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only once
did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took me
longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference.
Ed

"Marc" wrote in message
igy.com...


Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked
before
(I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
specific and up-to-date input.


If you've got the room, money and 220V - then go for a cabinet saw.
Pragmatically speaking, you'll never long for more (unless you're into
industrial gear). If you "settle" for a contractor saw, there's a chance
you'll be content and a good chance you'll wish you'd had spent the extra
money.

Like you - I stick a "cheap" toe in the water when I start a new hobby. I
too blew $200 on the Craftsman bench saw. After becoming convinced that I
enjoyed it, I went "hybrid" (more contractor than cabinet) because I didn't
have the room and didn't have 220V.

I'd start working in Excel and seeing how much you can get for your $2000
with a cabinet saw. The other decision you'll want to make early is whether
you go for 52" rails or 30". That'll affect your portable base investment
too.

These things seem to hold their value, fairly well. I take solace knowing
that the buck I invest in quality tools means (1) my children, should they
show an interest, will have them and (2) I could sell them and recoup enough
of my initial outlay to take the sting away.

Ditto, Go For It
"Swingman" wrote in message
news.com...
Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument
otherwise accepted.

You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you
will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing,
you
will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind
that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and
concentrate on the creation.

Guaranteed ....

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"Marc" wrote in message

same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a
good
cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and
a
220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me
your
advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but
it
will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Marc wrote:

Right now I am leaning
toward just putting about $2000 into a good cabinet saw, dado set,
portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a 220 outlet. If
you think there is a better way to go please give me your advice
before I make an expensive mistake.

If I had the space and that budget, I'd consider two contractor saws.
Ideally one left tilt and the other right tilt. No doubt one of them would
have the dado set installed more or less permanently. I'd use my dado a LOT
more if it wasn't for the time to change blades, and the fact "normal" TS
rips and crosscuts can't be done when my TS has the dado in.

-- Mark

There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw.
A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks
good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more
accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality
contractor saws than cabinet saws.

Thanks, good advice I don't want to look back I'm bad about looking back
and wondering what if.

"Swingman" wrote in message
news.com...

Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument
otherwise accepted.

You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you
will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing,
you
will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind
that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and
concentrate on the creation.

Guaranteed ....

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"Marc" wrote in message

same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a
good
cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and
a
220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me
your
advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but
it
will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Don't contractor saws and cabinet saws take up about the same amount of
space?

"mttt" wrote in message
...

"Marc" wrote in message
igy.com...


Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked
before
(I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
specific and up-to-date input.
..................

Like you - I stick a "cheap" toe in the water when I start a new hobby. I
too blew $200 on the Craftsman bench saw. After becoming convinced that I
enjoyed it, I went "hybrid" (more contractor than cabinet) because I
didn't
have the room and didn't have 220V.
..................

Buy the best you can afford and have fun. Life is too short not to have
fun.

Good tools are a delight to use and, in the right hands, make projects
more enjoyable. I have a Dela Unisaw. My only regret is not having a
garage big enough.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:59:43 +0000, Marc wrote:

Don't contractor saws and cabinet saws take up about the same amount of
space?

Contractor saws take up more space than cabinet saws 'cause of the motor
hanging out the back. The DeWalt and Jet hybrids are contractor type saws
with the motor inside the frame which makes for a cabinet saw footprint.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Marc" wrote in message

It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?


Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference.

If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a
difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the
contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up
front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only
once
did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took
me
longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference.
Ed

My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state....

-Jack

Did that come out like you wanted?


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03


"Phisherman" wrote in message

Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality
contractor saws than cabinet saws.

Take a look at the General from Canada... I own a Unisaw, but I would give
the _Canadian_ made General a hard look if I had to buy again.

http://www.kmstools.com/scripts/products/product.php?GEN-350T50M2M&2%3C-%3E172%3C-%3E166-175

Just to give you a look at it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"Marc" wrote in message

If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it
would
be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a cabinet
saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case
(deltax
or powermatic)

yep, I love the "life is too short" argument. Only problem is I've over
used it a bit.

"Charles" wrote in message
news
Buy the best you can afford and have fun. Life is too short not to have
fun.

Good tools are a delight to use and, in the right hands, make projects
more enjoyable. I have a Dela Unisaw. My only regret is not having a
garage big enough.

If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it would
be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a cabinet
saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case (deltax
or powermatic)


"JackD" wrote in message ...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Marc" wrote in message

It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor
or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?


Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference.

If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a
difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the
contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up
front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only
once
did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took
me
longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference.
Ed

My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state....

-Jack

What contractor saws are better quality than which cabinet saws? Are you
refering to grizzly or craftsman? I've been told they are pretty high
quality overall except for the fence, and they decent comparisons with other
cabinet saws in "wood" magazine (I think it was wood).

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw.
A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks
good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more
accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality
contractor saws than cabinet saws.

I read a comparison and general rated very high, but I can't find much
information on general. Does the manufacture have a website? Is there a
dealer in the dallas-ft worth area?

"Swingman" wrote in message
news.com...
Take a look at the General from Canada... I own a Unisaw, but I would give
the _Canadian_ made General a hard look if I had to buy again.


http://www.kmstools.com/scripts/products/product.php?GEN-350T50M2M&2%3C-%3E172%3C-%3E166-175

Just to give you a look at it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03

"Marc" wrote in message

If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it
would
be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a
cabinet
saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case
(deltax
or powermatic)

In article . com,
tome says...
I read a comparison and general rated very high, but I can't find much
information on general. Does the manufacture have a website?

http://www.general.ca/

CharlesJ
--
================================================== ======================
Charles Jones | Works at HP, | email:
Hewlett-Packard | doesn't speak | ICQ: 29610755
Loveland, Colorado | for HP | AIM: LovelandCharles
USA | |Jabber:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
wrote:
I plan to use the saw for a
lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
will only be in my spare time and weekends.

I would never suggest that anyone buy below their WANTS because we all
have something we go "over the top" on. I certainly do-- read the
electrical set-up below my signature. ; Having said that, my opinion
is: get a top-of-the-line contractor's saw. Why?

1.) While it's true that one should avoid the "pretend" table saws
that are available for under $200 at Sears, Home Depot and, (for all I
know), Toys-BackwardsR-Us, it's equally true that there are a lot more
cabinet saws in hobbyist's shops than there are cabinet-saw quality
hobbyists using them.

2.) If, as you state, precision and a perfect fit are your goals as a
beginner, then you will achieve them faster and continue reaching them
longer by buying the best contractor saw you can afford and putting
the other 800 to 1000 dollars into a week's worth of education at a
good woodworking school. It isn't the brush that paints the picture,
it's the artist. Studying with people who really know their craft is
priceless.

3.) We-- (Americans)-- put too much emphasis on tablesaws, anyway.
An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
as their weapon of choice. Consider that with the exception of
dadoing, everything you do on a table saw is going to be only the
first step in the overall process of dimensioning lumber. Other
machinery or hand tools are going to be required to dress out what you
cut. It's in those stages that you achieve the precision you're
looking for. (Cutting plywood doesn't qualify here, either.
Precision plywood cutting for panels, backs and bottoms is dependent
on a quality fence and proper feeding technique, not a "quality"
cabinet saw.)

4.) Should you decide, in the future that you just can't get through a
project without cutting lotso 3" thick Maple and you just gotta have
more horseys, you'll be glad to have a second saw to use as a
dedicated Dado machine. Think of how cool you'll be in your
neighborhood as the only guy with not one, but two tablesaws.

5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least
another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will
need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages,
markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're
darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision
work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.?
Got Money? tm

Michael
Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is
building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every
other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those.
Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout
doit.

12X16 Building materials: $2500
All the above electrical capacity: $300 and counting.
The ability to plug something in right HERE, and not have to settle
for "over there": Priceless.

Between High School and the end of my college years I worked for a sign
shop where I eventually got to regularly use an enormous 14" table
(cabinet) saw. It was 5HP with 5 belt drive. That was my first
experience using table saws.

Graduated from college, bought a house, then a table saw. I got
the then Rockwell contractors saw (10" open base 1.5 HP motor)
That was 20 years ago. 3 months ago I finally got a cabinet saw,
a Delta Unisaw.

The difference between the two is quite noticeable. It is a
pleasure to use and it was well worth the investment to me. I did quite
a bit of wood working over those 20 years with the contractors saw.
I expect that the quality of my work might improve a little with the new
saw, but not much.

I never regretted getting the Rockwell since it was all I could afford
at the time. It has served me quite well.

"Michael Baglio

Michael
Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is
building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every
other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those.
Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout
doit.

How many circuit breakers? Code has a limit on the number of outlets allowed
on a breaker.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:47:22 GMT, Nova
wrote:
Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is
building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every
other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those.
Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout
doit.

How many circuit breakers? Code has a limit on the number of outlets allowed
on a breaker.

Heh... whatever my electrician friend tells me I need, Jack. That'll
be the next trip to sLowe's. I haven't done any of this shop building
without some serious adult supervision. ;

(Btw, I recall several months ago you responding to a request of mine
for general pricing guidelines on shop building materials. Iirc, you
quoted a friend's shop, recently built. That post really gave me a
lot of "go-for-it" that I didn't have previously. So, if I didn't
thank you, thanks. Youdaman.)

Michael

It's a good point and one I have considered a lot. Probably the reason I am
asking a group so I can separate and distinguish my wants from my needs. If
all I have is a shop with a great table saw, I'm not going to be able to do
much. There will be more funds in the near future but what will I do until
then? I have some nice hand tools, Japanese chisels, LN 4 1/2 plane, and a
few other items. but I am using a router table for a jointer which is not
very suitable. I need some better squares and clamps etc. not to mention
WOOD, it's not cheap.

On the other hand maybe it is better to get this one big item out-of-the-way
so I never have to consider it again, and slowly build a shop of only
quality items over time.

I've heard of people subsituting a quality band-saw and using it for a
table-saw duty, that is what laguana seems to suggest on their band saw
video. But I don't see how that could work, small table, no dado, table
tilts instead of blade, lateral limitation by yoke of band saw, I just don't
see that working out.

It's a tough question, and it makes me realize how expensive this hobby is.

Thanks for your input.

Marc

"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com" mbaglioNOSPAM wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
wrote:

......


5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least
another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will
need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages,
markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're
darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision
work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.?
Got Money? tm


.......

"Michael Baglio

(Btw, I recall several months ago you responding to a request of mine
for general pricing guidelines on shop building materials. Iirc, you
quoted a friend's shop, recently built. That post really gave me a
lot of "go-for-it" that I didn't have previously. So, if I didn't
thank you, thanks. Youdaman.)

Your welcome and I'm glad the information I provided helped.

The friend I mentioned has been using that building for about a year. He's
already talking about bumping it out. There's a lot to be said for "post and
beam" construction.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Buy used machinery.

UA100

On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio wrote:

My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience.

An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
as their weapon of choice.

While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks overemphasize
the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life.
Even router tables are made to look more like a TS than a router. Why
should a RT fence be parallel to the edge of the table? The router is
not a linear device like a TS - the fence can go at _any_ angle!

Consider that with the exception of dadoing,

This could be done with a router. And a decent router is comparable in
cost to a decent dado blade kit for a TS.

I got a bandsaw, based on my needs (mostly boatbuilding based). I can
do most things that I can think of with this except cut really wide pieces
of wood (like sheets of plywood/MDf/etc). Crosscuts I do with a hand
saw.

I also was infuenced by the FWW 1st annual Tools&Shops issue, where Gary
Rogowski suggests that your first power tool should be a BS (unless your
needs are cutting wide chunks of wood).

It seems to me that a lot of folks could make good use of a BS and RT to
do more than a TS could. I can cut thru 6" of wood more easily than with
a TS - that would require me to cut, flip over and cut again. The BS is
a substitute for a scroll saw, as long as curves aren't too tight. The
router will allow plunge cut dadoes and grooves rather than the continuous
versions that most TS users get. Much neater than having a groove
sticking out the end of a hunk of wood.

If I needed to cut plywood/MDF/etc (in the short term given my _very_
limited budget), I'd probably go for a decent straightedge and circ
saw and use the BS for everything once the big sheets are down to size.
But that would suit my needs, possibly not many others'.

Anyway, if you need a TS, it's an excellent tool. But I wonder if some
folks focus on the TS too much.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...
On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio wrote:

My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience.

An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
as their weapon of choice.

While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks
overemphasize
the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life.
Even router tables are made to look more like a TS than a router. Why
should a RT fence be parallel to the edge of the table? The router is
not a linear device like a TS - the fence can go at _any_ angle!

Consider that with the exception of dadoing,

This could be done with a router. And a decent router is comparable in
cost to a decent dado blade kit for a TS.

I got a bandsaw, based on my needs (mostly boatbuilding based). I can
do most things that I can think of with this except cut really wide pieces
of wood (like sheets of plywood/MDf/etc). Crosscuts I do with a hand
saw.

I also was infuenced by the FWW 1st annual Tools&Shops issue, where Gary
Rogowski suggests that your first power tool should be a BS (unless your
needs are cutting wide chunks of wood).

It seems to me that a lot of folks could make good use of a BS and RT to
do more than a TS could. I can cut thru 6" of wood more easily than with
a TS - that would require me to cut, flip over and cut again. The BS is
a substitute for a scroll saw, as long as curves aren't too tight. The
router will allow plunge cut dadoes and grooves rather than the continuous
versions that most TS users get. Much neater than having a groove
sticking out the end of a hunk of wood.

If I needed to cut plywood/MDF/etc (in the short term given my _very_
limited budget), I'd probably go for a decent straightedge and circ
saw and use the BS for everything once the big sheets are down to size.
But that would suit my needs, possibly not many others'.

Anyway, if you need a TS, it's an excellent tool. But I wonder if some
folks focus on the TS too much.

Mike

I find it quite useful for ripping wood precisely. The blade doesn't wander
like it would on a bandsaw.
Ripping at an angle can be hairy on a bandsaw, but on a TS it is no problem
because the work stays flat and the blade tilts.

It can also make bigger cross-cuts than I can make with a chop saw.

Perhaps it is just that I have never worked with a really good bandsaw, but
I find that cutting with a tablesaw is just more accurate due to the stiffer
blade.

-Jack

You can do excellent woodworking without a good cabinet saw, but after you
own a good cabinet saw, you wonder _why_ you would want to.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio wrote:

My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience.

An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
as their weapon of choice.

While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks
overemphasize
the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life.

Marc wrote:
It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?

IMO, it boils down to different questions:
Are you good enough to work around the weakness of the tool? Or will
you get angry and blame the tool for your failures?

Look at the 'Desk' project on this site:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~akropinski/Gallery.htm
It's gorgeous!

Then look at his workshop. He's got a Craftsman table saw.
Anybody who says you can't build nice stuff with middle-of-the-road
tools is a sad excuse for a woodworker. It's just a matter of how
much YOU want to spend on tools ($$$) and how much time/effort YOU
want to spend working around the weaknesses of your tools.

Bottom line:
The craftsman makes the furniture...the tools are just
along for the ride.


--
************************************
Chris Merrill

(remove the ZZZ to contact me)
************************************

Never tell SWMBO that you can build quality stuff with "middle of the
road" tools.

dave

Chris Merrill wrote:

Marc wrote:

It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?


IMO, it boils down to different questions:
Are you good enough to work around the weakness of the tool? Or will
you get angry and blame the tool for your failures?

Look at the 'Desk' project on this site:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~akropinski/Gallery.htm
It's gorgeous!

Then look at his workshop. He's got a Craftsman table saw.
Anybody who says you can't build nice stuff with middle-of-the-road
tools is a sad excuse for a woodworker. It's just a matter of how
much YOU want to spend on tools ($$$) and how much time/effort YOU
want to spend working around the weaknesses of your tools.

Bottom line:
The craftsman makes the furniture...the tools are just
along for the ride.

shoulda known that was comin.......;-)

Bob S.

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...
Buy used machinery.

UA100

I envision Keith under the belly of some rusty monster so often, I bet
he gets a tetnus shot every six months to protect himself.

dave

Bob S. wrote:

shoulda known that was comin.......;-)

Bob S.

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...

Buy used machinery.

UA100

I envision Keith under the belly of some rusty monster so often, I bet
he gets a tetanus shot every six months to protect himself.

dave

Bob S. wrote:

shoulda known that was comin.......;-)

Bob S.

"Unisaw A100" wrote in message
...

Buy used machinery.

UA100

In article ,
Michael Baglio mbaglioNOSPAM wrote:


Michael
Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is
building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every
other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those.
Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout
doit.

I think I've got you beat for 'power density', at least on the 110 side.

In my _kitchen_, I've got *THIRTY* 110 outlets (1 quad for every 3' of counter,
plus a duplex for (A) the refrigerator, (b) the freezer, (c) motorized
partition to the DR. Only 1 220v though, for the stove. But, we're talking
88 sq ft 'gross', and only about 30 sq ft 'open' after appliances and counters.
(I've got ten separate circuits feeding only the kitchen. there's only 8 for
the _rest_ of the condo.)


The ability to plug something in right HERE, and not have to settle
for "over there": Priceless.

ABSOLUTELY!!!

I'd rather have a Powermatic contractor tablesaw than a Craftsman
cabinet saw. Another point to make it more confusing, there are
"hybrid saws" that have properties of both contractor and cabinet.
I'd recommend the Grizzly G1023S which is an icredible buy at $800 and
close to the cost of a Powermatic 64A which is a very good contractor
saw.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:05:05 GMT, "Marc"
wrote:

What contractor saws are better quality than which cabinet saws? Are you
refering to grizzly or craftsman? I've been told they are pretty high
quality overall except for the fence, and they decent comparisons with other
cabinet saws in "wood" magazine (I think it was wood).

"Phisherman" wrote in message
.. .
There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw.
A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks
good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more
accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality
contractor saws than cabinet saws.

You know, I've debated this issue myself. And I'm almost to the conclusion
that I can do any heavy ripping on my bandsaw anyway. Would I really need
a 3 HP+ motor on a table saw since I'd mostly be using it for finish quality
cuts
and joints ? My 1.5 HP Delta would take care of any rips up to 6" thick,
with
no risk of burning. All I'd have to do is plane it afterwards, and some
have to
do that to wood cut on their table saws anyway.

I still love the idea of buying myself a nice cabinet, but I'm thinking as
far as a
table saw goes, a beefy contractor (+two iron wings) would give me enough
stability and power to do all I will need. I'm not terribly satisfied with
the
state of table saws and how they work right now either. Its
counterintuitive
to think I can actually use it without being injured or at least frightened
to the
point of soiling myself.



--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...


"JackD" wrote in message ...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Marc" wrote in message

It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor
or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?


Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference.

If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a
difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the
contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up
front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only
once
did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took
me
longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference.
Ed

My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state....

-Jack

Can someone explain to me the fascination with dado blades on table saws?
I use a router for all dados (it SEEMS easier). All woodworkers have at
least one router, so why do people use table saws for dados ?

"Marc" wrote in message
igy.com...
It's a good point and one I have considered a lot. Probably the reason I
am
asking a group so I can separate and distinguish my wants from my needs.
If
all I have is a shop with a great table saw, I'm not going to be able to
do
much. There will be more funds in the near future but what will I do
until
then? I have some nice hand tools, Japanese chisels, LN 4 1/2 plane, and
a
few other items. but I am using a router table for a jointer which is not
very suitable. I need some better squares and clamps etc. not to mention
WOOD, it's not cheap.

On the other hand maybe it is better to get this one big item
out-of-the-way
so I never have to consider it again, and slowly build a shop of only
quality items over time.

I've heard of people subsituting a quality band-saw and using it for a
table-saw duty, that is what laguana seems to suggest on their band saw
video. But I don't see how that could work, small table, no dado, table
tilts instead of blade, lateral limitation by yoke of band saw, I just
don't
see that working out.

It's a tough question, and it makes me realize how expensive this hobby
is.

Thanks for your input.

Marc

"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com" mbaglioNOSPAM wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
wrote:

.....


5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least
another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will
need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages,
markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're
darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision
work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.?
Got Money? tm


......