Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

Thanks.

Trent

"Trent" wrote in message
...
Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

Thanks.

A reason that comes to mind is that the miscreant circuit has the outlets
wired in series. They should be wired in parallel.

Jim
Trent

In article , Trent wrote:
Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

First idea that comes to mind is that the circuit is not powered on, and
you're using a digital meter -- and measuring a microampere current that's
induced in the line by current in an adjacent circuit. Connect a load of some
sort to the circuit, and see what happens to the voltage then. I'm betting it
drops to zero.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

When I check my other outlets, on another circuit, they read 240 with
a digital meter. It is just these 4 that register 60 on each one.

Previous post said they may be wired in series, how would that happen?



On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 00:53:42 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Trent wrote:
Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

First idea that comes to mind is that the circuit is not powered on, and
you're using a digital meter -- and measuring a microampere current that's
induced in the line by current in an adjacent circuit. Connect a load of some
sort to the circuit, and see what happens to the voltage then. I'm betting it
drops to zero.

"Trent" wrote in message
Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

Is that circuit on a separate breaker from the other 220 receptacles?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/25/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Trent wrote in
:

When I check my other outlets, on another circuit, they read 240 with
a digital meter. It is just these 4 that register 60 on each one.

Previous post said they may be wired in series, how would that happen?


Turn off the power and take the outlets out of the box. Examine the
wiring and make a note of how its wired. The only way I can think to
have the outlets wired in series would require something to be plugged in
to each one to complete the circuit. (I.E. When one bulb goes, all the
lights go out.)

Should the outlets successfully been wired in series, I'd love to find
out how that was accomplished! It's almost planned stupidity.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

"Trent" wrote in message
...
Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?


Have you taken the circuit apart and looked at your wiring yet?

--

-Mike-

Trent wrote:

Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

Thanks.

Trent

Check your wiring in the outlet are correct and tight , make sure you
havent wired anythin in series within the circuit ,

Check for any possible earth leakage running to ground


--

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:33:25 -0700, Trent
wrote:

When I check my other outlets, on another circuit, they read 240 with
a digital meter. It is just these 4 that register 60 on each one.

As Doug mentioned...

Does your meter "auto range"? You might be reading a very tiny, as
in microvolts, induced voltage.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 13:07:12 GMT, B A R R Y
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:33:25 -0700, Trent
wrote:

When I check my other outlets, on another circuit, they read 240 with
a digital meter. It is just these 4 that register 60 on each one.

As Doug mentioned...

Does your meter "auto range"? You might be reading a very tiny, as
in microvolts, induced voltage.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

An induced voltage doesnt have to be tiny. 60V is well within range of
an induced voltage on an open wire with a high impedence meter.

You have an open wire somewhere up line from where you're measuring,
as others have said.

Take a lamp and plug it into one of the dead outlets, turn it on and
the voltage reading should drop to zero.

-dickm

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:43:54 -0500, dicko wrote:

Take a lamp and plug it into one of the dead outlets, turn it on and
the voltage reading should drop to zero.

-dickm

Ok.. I know I'm not an electrician, but are their 220/240v lamps?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote in
:

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:43:54 -0500, dicko
wrote:

Take a lamp and plug it into one of the dead outlets, turn it on and
the voltage reading should drop to zero.

-dickm

Ok.. I know I'm not an electrician, but are their 220/240v lamps?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

That's not the point. The point is that supplying a continuity with a
relatively low resistance should drop the voltage to zero. That would
eliminate the "induced voltage that you saw. If you wired things somehow
in series, the bulb would (on that 60 V) probably glow only faintly if at
all.

If you put a lightbulb that is designed for 110V in a 220V circuit I
assume it will burn, maybe brightly for only a short period of time. I
think R is constant R=I/V, so maybe I will be half if V is twice, maybe
not.

In Europe almost all bulbs will be 220/240V. I know that even with a
transformer, our Dutch 220V sewing machine would not run on 110V. I
can't check it anymore, since someone stole it.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:

mac davis wrote in
:

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:43:54 -0500, dicko
wrote:

Take a lamp and plug it into one of the dead outlets, turn it on
and the voltage reading should drop to zero.

-dickm

Ok.. I know I'm not an electrician, but are their 220/240v lamps?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

That's not the point. The point is that supplying a continuity with
a relatively low resistance should drop the voltage to zero. That
would eliminate the "induced voltage that you saw. If you wired
things somehow in series, the bulb would (on that 60 V) probably glow
only faintly if at all.

If you put a lightbulb that is designed for 110V in a 220V circuit I
assume it will burn, maybe brightly for only a short period of time.
I think R is constant R=I/V, so maybe I will be half if V is twice,
maybe not.

In Europe almost all bulbs will be 220/240V. I know that even with a
transformer, our Dutch 220V sewing machine would not run on 110V. I
can't check it anymore, since someone stole it.

American 220/240 volt is twin phase (two hot wires) in the EU its
single phase (0ne hot wire) thats why the equipment is not
interchangeable

In the UK both the Earth and neutral go to ground (neutral at the
substation , earth eithr at the sub or copper point in the ground )

Our 110 Volt systems are used only on construction sites from a centre
tpped transformer so you only get a 55 volt shock if you ground
yourself out

--

"steve robinson" wrote in
:

Han wrote:

mac davis wrote in
:

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:43:54 -0500, dicko
wrote:

Take a lamp and plug it into one of the dead outlets, turn it on
and the voltage reading should drop to zero.

-dickm

Ok.. I know I'm not an electrician, but are their 220/240v lamps?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

That's not the point. The point is that supplying a continuity with
a relatively low resistance should drop the voltage to zero. That
would eliminate the "induced voltage that you saw. If you wired
things somehow in series, the bulb would (on that 60 V) probably glow
only faintly if at all.

If you put a lightbulb that is designed for 110V in a 220V circuit I
assume it will burn, maybe brightly for only a short period of time.
I think R is constant R=I/V, so maybe I will be half if V is twice,
maybe not.

In Europe almost all bulbs will be 220/240V. I know that even with a
transformer, our Dutch 220V sewing machine would not run on 110V. I
can't check it anymore, since someone stole it.

American 220/240 volt is twin phase (two hot wires) in the EU its
single phase (0ne hot wire) thats why the equipment is not
interchangeable

I was so naive as to think that inputting 110 V to a transformer with
a220V out put would be able to power a sewing machine. It didn't. Why,
I don't know - not enough amps to go through the transformer? 50 vs 60
Hz? But spouse got a made for (or in) US sewing machine and did make
nice quilts and other things grin.


snip

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Trent wrote:
Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

Thanks.

Trent


A series circuit would produce 120 volts from the leg to ground.
To check for a true reading of 240 volts, you need to test from leg to
leg. For 220 or 240, a test from the leg to ground can float a variable
reading. Also a loose neutral wire can produce a low voltage from leg to
ground. This is why we are to read from leg to leg on a 240 volt
circuit, this is the true voltage.

in my experience, this can happen when the either the neutral wire in a
120 volt circuit or the 2nd leg of a 240 volt circuit is missing. If
so, you'd probably get the same result if you didn't stick the neutral
probe of the meter into the receptacle at all. Personally, I use a
simple neon tester to figure these things out so I don't get confused by
a digital meter.


Pete Stanaitis
------------------------

Trent wrote:

Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

Thanks.

Trent

"spaco" wrote

or the 2nd leg of a 240 volt circuit is missing.

That's why I asked the question I did.

If he using a panel/sub panel that will take 1/2 height breakers, he may not
be spanning both _legs_ with the 220 c'brk. IME, the 'position of the
circuit breaker is important/necessary in these type panels when installing
220 breakers.

A WAG, but the fact the he took the time to use a voltage meter indicates to
me that he tried to plug something into the receptacle and it didn't work,
so out came voltage tester. The above scenario is not uncommon, even among
some electricians I know.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/25/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:56:37 GMT, Han wrote:
...
I think R is constant R=I/V, so maybe I will be half if V is twice, maybe
not.
...


Haven't read the posts following this one, but I'd like to point out
that Ohm's Law is V=IR so that R=V/I and I = V/R so it follows that
with a constant R, double the voltage means double, not half, the
amperage. The equation for Power, P=IV, does imply that for a constant
power, double the voltage implies half the amperage.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Tom Veatch wrote in :

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:56:37 GMT, Han wrote:
...
I think R is constant R=I/V, so maybe I will be half if V is twice,
maybe
not.
...


Haven't read the posts following this one, but I'd like to point out
that Ohm's Law is V=IR so that R=V/I and I = V/R so it follows that
with a constant R, double the voltage means double, not half, the
amperage. The equation for Power, P=IV, does imply that for a constant
power, double the voltage implies half the amperage.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

You're so right. I hope my kids don't read this shamed


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:56:37 GMT, Han wrote:
...
In Europe almost all bulbs will be 220/240V. I know that even with a
transformer, our Dutch 220V sewing machine would not run on 110V. I
can't check it anymore, since someone stole it.
...

I'd like to get a supply of those European light bulbs.

I've set all the machines that support conversion to run on 220V.
Which means that the built-in work light on my drill press sees 220V
unless I rewire the tool, adding a neutral conductor and replace the
NEMA 6-15 plug and receptacle with a NEMA 14-15 configuration (the
circuit is already wired as a 120/240 3+ground circuit). Or I could do
as the owner's manual recommends, which I won't repeat here since it
violates holy hell out of every electrical code I've ever heard of.

(I found some 220v light bulbs at Grainger, but they won't fit the
cavity in the body of the drill press)

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Tom Veatch wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:56:37 GMT, Han wrote:
...
In Europe almost all bulbs will be 220/240V. I know that even with a
transformer, our Dutch 220V sewing machine would not run on 110V. I
can't check it anymore, since someone stole it.
...

I'd like to get a supply of those European light bulbs.

http://www.buylightfixtures.com/inde...ROD&ProdID=297

--

Tom Veatch wrote:

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:56:37 GMT, Han wrote:
...
In Europe almost all bulbs will be 220/240V. I know that even with
a transformer, our Dutch 220V sewing machine would not run on 110V.
I can't check it anymore, since someone stole it.
...

I'd like to get a supply of those European light bulbs.

I've set all the machines that support conversion to run on 220V.
Which means that the built-in work light on my drill press sees 220V
unless I rewire the tool, adding a neutral conductor and replace the
NEMA 6-15 plug and receptacle with a NEMA 14-15 configuration (the
circuit is already wired as a 120/240 3+ground circuit). Or I could do
as the owner's manual recommends, which I won't repeat here since it
violates holy hell out of every electrical code I've ever heard of.

(I found some 220v light bulbs at Grainger, but they won't fit the
cavity in the body of the drill press)

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

European lamps operate on a 240 single phase arrangement , might not be
suitable for your 220/240 volt twin phase supply

steve robinson wrote:


European lamps operate on a 240 single phase arrangement , might not be
suitable for your 220/240 volt twin phase supply

220/240 volts in the US is most commonly single phase as well.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:33:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

Tom Veatch wrote:

I'd like to get a supply of those European light bulbs.

http://www.buylightfixtures.com/inde...ROD&ProdID=297

Thanks, dpb, I've ordered a couple of those.

I hope they mean it where they say "_regular size_ light bulbs like
you use in your home". The ones from Grainger are slightly larger
diameter than the "regular size".

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Tom Veatch wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:33:47 -0500, dpb wrote:

Tom Veatch wrote:
I'd like to get a supply of those European light bulbs.

http://www.buylightfixtures.com/inde...ROD&ProdID=297

Thanks, dpb, I've ordered a couple of those.

I hope they mean it where they say "_regular size_ light bulbs like
you use in your home". The ones from Grainger are slightly larger
diameter than the "regular size".

I didn't check the base/configuration data specifically, but should be
available.

Don't you have a neutral in the cordset, though? All seems would need
to do is to tap off the one hot side for the light.

Otherwise, probably simplest to just put a replacement line cord on the
tool, I'd think.

--

Tom Veatch wrote in :

snip

Thanks, dpb, I've ordered a couple of those.

I hope they mean it where they say "_regular size_ light bulbs like
you use in your home". The ones from Grainger are slightly larger
diameter than the "regular size".

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

Our dining room "over the table" ficture was purchased in Holland. US
bulbs work fine, especally after we wired the fixture into the ceiling
box.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:47:48 -0800, mac davis
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:43:54 -0500, dicko wrote:

Take a lamp and plug it into one of the dead outlets, turn it on and
the voltage reading should drop to zero.

-dickm

Ok.. I know I'm not an electrician, but are their 220/240v lamps?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Yeah, I should have thought that one through.. I meant to say put a
load on it, and the closest thing is a lamp. For 110V, that would
have worked OK. I've never seen a 220 lamp here in the US.

-dickm

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:48:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

Don't you have a neutral in the cordset, though? All seems would need
to do is to tap off the one hot side for the light.

Otherwise, probably simplest to just put a replacement line cord on the
tool, I'd think.

The existing cordset only has two conductors plus ground. But to get
both 120 and 240 to the tool, 3 conductors plus ground are required -
2 "hot" wires for the two legs of the 240v, and 1 "neutral" for the
120v, plus, of course, the equipment grounding wire.

A new 4 wire cordset (plus plug and receptacle replacement) would fix
the supply problem and is probably the best long term solution
assuming the DP won't ever be converted back to 120v. But, a new 4
wire cordset also means the tool needs to be rewired (or the existing
internal wiring at least has to be reconfigured) to get the two hots
to the motor and one of the hots plus neutral to the worklight
fixture. I haven't opened it up to see, so it might not be any big
deal, but 220v light bulbs, if they fit, is a very simple solution.

And, of course, a completely separate task light clamped to the DP
column is always a "that's good enough" option.

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:43:54 -0500, dicko
wrote:

An induced voltage doesnt have to be tiny. 60V is well within range of
an induced voltage on an open wire with a high impedence meter.

Absolutely!

The reason I brought up the tiny voltages and autoranging is simply
because I've seen it many times on unpowered (breaker open) circuits.

---------------------------------------------
** http://www.bburke.com/woodworking.html **
---------------------------------------------

In article , Trent wrote:
When I check my other outlets, on another circuit, they read 240 with
a digital meter. It is just these 4 that register 60 on each one.

Fine -- is there actually power to the circuit? Is the breaker on?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Somebody wrote:
Ok.. I know I'm not an electrician, but are their 220/240v lamps?

They are available.

A little story.

American Shipbuilding in Lorain, Oh, would run bare stringer lights down
thru the ship they were working on for light.

To keep the theft to a minimum, they used 240V, incandescent lamps, which
totally ****ed off the workers so as a diversion, they would throw stones at
the lamps to break them during lunch hour.

Had at least 2 guys whose job was to replace broken lamps on a full time
basis.

A/S/B had a contract with my distributor to buy at least 25,000 lamps/year
for replacements.

American Ship Building was closed years ago by owner George Steinbrenner as
a result of a labor dispute.

Lew

..

Tom Veatch wrote:
On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:48:21 -0500, dpb wrote:
Don't you have a neutral in the cordset, though? All seems would need
to do is to tap off the one hot side for the light.

Otherwise, probably simplest to just put a replacement line cord on the
tool, I'd think.

The existing cordset only has two conductors plus ground. But to get
both 120 and 240 to the tool, 3 conductors plus ground are required -
2 "hot" wires for the two legs of the 240v, and 1 "neutral" for the
120v, plus, of course, the equipment grounding wire.
....

Call me old, but we ran split voltage appliances on 3-wire for a long
time...

But, unless it's a heck of a press, seems hardly worth even the extra
hassle of the special-order light bulb to me..

That, of course, is just me...

--

Nova wrote:

steve robinson wrote:


European lamps operate on a 240 single phase arrangement , might
not be suitable for your 220/240 volt twin phase supply

220/240 volts in the US is most commonly single phase as well.

in the uk we have only 1 live wire(hot wire) you run 2 in the states?

--

steve robinson wrote:
Nova wrote:

steve robinson wrote:

European lamps operate on a 240 single phase arrangement , might
not be suitable for your 220/240 volt twin phase supply
220/240 volts in the US is most commonly single phase as well.

in the uk we have only 1 live wire(hot wire) you run 2 in the states?

Yes, but it's still the same phase...and a bulb won't care being simply
a resistive load.

--

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:22:05 -0500, Tom Veatch wrote:

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:56:37 GMT, Han wrote:
...
In Europe almost all bulbs will be 220/240V. I know that even with a
transformer, our Dutch 220V sewing machine would not run on 110V. I
can't check it anymore, since someone stole it.
...

I'd like to get a supply of those European light bulbs.

I've set all the machines that support conversion to run on 220V.
Which means that the built-in work light on my drill press sees 220V
unless I rewire the tool, adding a neutral conductor and replace the
NEMA 6-15 plug and receptacle with a NEMA 14-15 configuration (the
circuit is already wired as a 120/240 3+ground circuit). Or I could do
as the owner's manual recommends, which I won't repeat here since it
violates holy hell out of every electrical code I've ever heard of.

(I found some 220v light bulbs at Grainger, but they won't fit the
cavity in the body of the drill press)

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA

When I converted my lathe to 220v, I plugged in the light and my drills to the
same power strip that the lathe used to be plugged into.. Just lazy, I guess..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 22:08:28 GMT, (Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , Trent wrote:
When I check my other outlets, on another circuit, they read 240 with
a digital meter. It is just these 4 that register 60 on each one.

Fine -- is there actually power to the circuit? Is the breaker on?

Or, in the case of my last couple of houses, are the breakerS on...
The dryer circuit in my garage in the States has TWO 40 amp breakers ganged with
a bar on the switch end of the breaker, but the older house had 2 breakers that
weren't ganged... I guess you could only throw one breaker and have one 110v leg
on??


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Nov 2, 6:01 pm, Trent wrote:
Wiring 220 circuit in my garage I have one circuit with 4 outlets that
only registers 60 volts. The others I wired register 240. Ideas why?

Thanks.

Trent

It does make sense that if you split 220-240VAC in series you'll get
50-60VAC on each one. I'm guessing since you haven't mentioned blowing
a breaker there isn't a direct short or shunt someplace.

Is the end of the circuit terminated correctly??

Couldn't a guy just stick a one or two amp 400PRV diode in series with
the hot lamp lead? That way you'd get only half of the sine wave. I
seem to remember that "they" used to sell a diode packaged so it would
drop into the light socket "to make your bulbs last forever".

Pete Stanaitis
------------

Tom Veatch wrote:

snip
I'd like to get a supply of those European light bulbs.

I've set all the machines that support conversion to run on 220V.
Which means that the built-in work light on my drill press sees 220V
unless I rewire the tool, adding a neutral conductor and replace the
NEMA 6-15 plug and receptacle with a NEMA 14-15 configuration (the
circuit is already wired as a 120/240 3+ground circuit). Or I could do
as the owner's manual recommends, which I won't repeat here since it
violates holy hell out of every electrical code I've ever heard of.

(I found some 220v light bulbs at Grainger, but they won't fit the
cavity in the body of the drill press)

Tom Veatch
Wichita, KS
USA