Hey Friends,

I am bending 1/8th strips of shag bark hickory to make
Native American ball sticks. For some reason, the wood
I harvested is cracking during the bend unlike any other
hickory I've used in the past.

Questions for you pro wood benders:

1) I harvested the wood a little late in the year (May).
Would this really make that much difference in bending?

2) Can the place where I harvested hickory make a big
difference? I got the wood 75 miles north of me in a state
park (with permission).

3) I've been trying to steam bend the wood. I built a steam
box using 4" PVC and a steam kettle. It seems to work ok. Using
the 1 inch per hour formula, I tried steaming for 10 minutes,
no luck. 20 minutes, no luck. 30 minutes, some luck. At what
point am I oversteaming the 1/8th inch strips to make them weak?
Should I go ahead steam even longer to make hopefully more
successful bends?

Thanks much for any help.

S.

I am bending 1/8th strips of shag bark hickory to make
Native American ball sticks. For some reason, the wood
I harvested is cracking during the bend unlike any other
hickory I've used in the past.


3) I've been trying to steam bend the wood. I built a steam
box using 4" PVC and a steam kettle. It seems to work ok. Using
the 1 inch per hour formula, I tried steaming for 10 minutes,
no luck. 20 minutes, no luck. 30 minutes, some luck. At what
point am I oversteaming the 1/8th inch strips to make them weak?
Should I go ahead steam even longer to make hopefully more
successful bends?

Never bent hickory, but I made some laminated chair rails with 1/8" oak; it
bent just fine without steaming.
Didn't the Native Americans use oak?

Yes, the 1/16" bent easier, but the 1/8" worked.

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 22:55:14 -0500, samson wrote:

Hey Friends,

I am bending 1/8th strips of shag bark hickory to make
Native American ball sticks. For some reason, the wood
I harvested is cracking during the bend unlike any other
hickory I've used in the past.

Questions for you pro wood benders:

1) I harvested the wood a little late in the year (May).
Would this really make that much difference in bending?
no


2) Can the place where I harvested hickory make a big
difference? I got the wood 75 miles north of me in a state
park (with permission).
no


3) I've been trying to steam bend the wood. I built a steam
box using 4" PVC and a steam kettle. It seems to work ok. Using
the 1 inch per hour formula, I tried steaming for 10 minutes,
no luck. 20 minutes, no luck. 30 minutes, some luck. At what
point am I oversteaming the 1/8th inch strips to make them weak?
Should I go ahead steam even longer to make hopefully more
successful bends?
15 to 20 minutes is about right, probably 20 minutes is better. You
need a full uninterrupted steam source during that time. Work
quickly--You have (only!) 20 seconds to bend the wood and get it into
the form after removing it from the steam box. Using thick leather
gloves, bend the wood gently. Steaming a piece twice doesn't work
well. You can remove the wood from the form after it cools. Expect
8% springback.


Thanks much for any help.

S.

This is not an expert response, so act accordingly!!!

I went through this process recently trying to bend some 28 inch long
5/8" diameter spindles for repair of a rocking chair. My observations:

The maple dowels I first bought for this project didn't ever want to bend!

If the PVC isn't sagging, you aren't getting enough steam/heat.

You need a LOT of WET steam!!!!

So, here's what I did:

Switched to white oak.

Sawed out some 3/4" X 1 inch samples to try before spnending a lot of
time on the lathe

I got out my heat gun.
I laid the parts to be bent on the laundry tub and dribbled the hottest
water I could get from the tap over the part while passing the heat gun
blast back and forth over the part. I did this for 3 or 4 minutes.
Then the parts bent easily. It also seemed that the extra wettness gave
me a couple of minutes of bend time.

It seemed that the wetness helped me a lot, even though I read that
it's the heat, not the steam that makes bending work. The literature
did say that heat without water dries the wood out too fast.

Pete Stanaitis
------------------------

samson wrote:

Hey Friends,

I am bending 1/8th strips of shag bark hickory to make
Native American ball sticks. For some reason, the wood
I harvested is cracking during the bend unlike any other
hickory I've used in the past.

Questions for you pro wood benders:

1) I harvested the wood a little late in the year (May).
Would this really make that much difference in bending?

2) Can the place where I harvested hickory make a big
difference? I got the wood 75 miles north of me in a state
park (with permission).

3) I've been trying to steam bend the wood. I built a steam
box using 4" PVC and a steam kettle. It seems to work ok. Using
the 1 inch per hour formula, I tried steaming for 10 minutes,
no luck. 20 minutes, no luck. 30 minutes, some luck. At what
point am I oversteaming the 1/8th inch strips to make them weak?
Should I go ahead steam even longer to make hopefully more
successful bends?

Thanks much for any help.

S.

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 22:55:14 -0500, samson wrote:

I am bending 1/8th strips of shag bark hickory to make
Native American ball sticks. For some reason, the wood
I harvested is cracking during the bend unlike any other
hickory I've used in the past.

I'd try to go for thinner laminations, 1/8", depending on the kind of
curves you're going for, may be kind of thick. Try it with 1/16" and
see if it helps.

Phisherman wrote:
You can remove the wood from the form after it cools. Expect
8% springback.


I am -simply- curious about this. Where did you get this figure and how
do you calculate for it in making a jig? I have a design in mind that
will call for a curve terminating in a 90 deg. turn as below:


=========|||


and I am in the head-scratching phase of the jig design, having never
bent wood (at all) before.


Bill
--
I'm not not at the above address.
http://nmwoodworks.com


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000764-3, 08/09/2007
Tested on: 8/9/2007 11:43:37 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

In article ,
says...
Phisherman wrote:
You can remove the wood from the form after it cools. Expect
8% springback.


I am -simply- curious about this. Where did you get this figure and how
do you calculate for it in making a jig? I have a design in mind that
will call for a curve terminating in a 90 deg. turn as below:


=========|||


and I am in the head-scratching phase of the jig design, having never
bent wood (at all) before.


Bill

A followup:

1) Question about oak. It's good for bending, yes, but hickory
is (usually) quite elastic and dries hard as a rock. So it's good
for ballsticks.

2) I reconfigured my steam box using a teapot that is more or less
airtight and used a hose clamp so I would lose much steam. (Yes, I
have a drip/steam release hole.)

3) I only allowed myself 20 seconds after heating for 20 minutes. The
results were excellent. I broke 2 (on a knotty part -- of the four
sections of the blank I could cut and bend, these sections were
the least knotty) and made 2 very good bends on clean strips with
little or no knotty parts.

I really appreciate the input and advice.

S.

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 23:43:36 -0400, BillinDetroit
wrote:


and I am in the head-scratching phase of the jig design, having never
bent wood (at all) before.


Bill

Bill, I'm jumping in here a little late. Are you doing laminates
bendups from thinly cut strips? If so, I can post a few pics of forms
I've made for laminated table skirts and laminated rocking chair
rocker.

ROY!

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 23:59:41 -0500, samson wrote:

In article ,
says...
Phisherman wrote:
You can remove the wood from the form after it cools. Expect
8% springback.


I am -simply- curious about this. Where did you get this figure and how
do you calculate for it in making a jig? I have a design in mind that
will call for a curve terminating in a 90 deg. turn as below:


=========|||


and I am in the head-scratching phase of the jig design, having never
bent wood (at all) before.


Bill

A followup:

1) Question about oak. It's good for bending, yes, but hickory
is (usually) quite elastic and dries hard as a rock. So it's good
for ballsticks.

2) I reconfigured my steam box using a teapot that is more or less
airtight and used a hose clamp so I would lose much steam. (Yes, I
have a drip/steam release hole.)

3) I only allowed myself 20 seconds after heating for 20 minutes. The
results were excellent. I broke 2 (on a knotty part -- of the four
sections of the blank I could cut and bend, these sections were
the least knotty) and made 2 very good bends on clean strips with
little or no knotty parts.

I really appreciate the input and advice.

S.

You may have already realized steam bending is more of an art than a
science. Recently I bent three different kinds of 1/8" thick wood.
The walnut bent easier than oak (surprise!), and the oak bent easier
than another (unknown) pinkish-colored wood. I broke about 1 out of
10 pieces when bending, but I say it was more due to operator fault
than the steaming process. Selecting long grain wood without knots
will give better results.

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 23:43:36 -0400, BillinDetroit
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
You can remove the wood from the form after it cools. Expect
8% springback.


I am -simply- curious about this. Where did you get this figure and how
do you calculate for it in making a jig? I have a design in mind that
will call for a curve terminating in a 90 deg. turn as below:


=========|||


and I am in the head-scratching phase of the jig design, having never
bent wood (at all) before.


Bill

The 8% springback is a guideline. It may be 5%, so you should design
your bending jig with the thought that it may require a slight angle
adjustment. If the jig is at an 84-degree angle, your wood, after it
has cooled in the jig, will springback to abut 90 degrees. Different
thickness and wood type make a difference. There are all kinds of
steam bending jig designs and you need one where you can easily and
quickly put the steamed wood into it and clamped without any fuss.
Steam burns hurt--use care and leather gloves.

ROY! wrote:

Bill, I'm jumping in here a little late. Are you doing laminates
bendups from thinly cut strips? If so, I can post a few pics of forms
I've made for laminated table skirts and laminated rocking chair
rocker.

ROY!



Yes. It will look like 1/2 of a traditional heart shape with a flat to
hold a candle / oil lamp. The two halves are to interlink. Just any old
wood on the inside plies, something snazzy on the two exterior plies.

Bill


--
I'm not not at the above address.
http://nmwoodworks.com


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 000764-8, 08/12/2007
Tested on: 8/12/2007 9:37:11 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2007 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

BillinDetroit
I learned alot by reading up about steam bending from this
publication. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/tb1267.pdf
also try thhis link, http://www.woodweb.com/KnowledgeBase/KBBWGeneral.
Go to group alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking. I posted pics of two
curved shelf facings I bent. I'll add it was a challenge.
Francis



On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 21:55:05 GMT, Phisherman wrote:

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 23:43:36 -0400, BillinDetroit
wrote:

Phisherman wrote:
You can remove the wood from the form after it cools. Expect
8% springback.


I am -simply- curious about this. Where did you get this figure and how
do you calculate for it in making a jig? I have a design in mind that
will call for a curve terminating in a 90 deg. turn as below:


=========|||


and I am in the head-scratching phase of the jig design, having never
bent wood (at all) before.


Bill

The 8% springback is a guideline. It may be 5%, so you should design
your bending jig with the thought that it may require a slight angle
adjustment. If the jig is at an 84-degree angle, your wood, after it
has cooled in the jig, will springback to abut 90 degrees. Different
thickness and wood type make a difference. There are all kinds of
steam bending jig designs and you need one where you can easily and
quickly put the steamed wood into it and clamped without any fuss.
Steam burns hurt--use care and leather gloves.